marriage seems to be over

LegacyUser

It looks as though my marriage of 11 years is going to end. We have been together since 2003. We have had a lot of stress in our lives with business issues and then fertility issues on top of it. We had a baby 4 years ago, after many years of trying. It took its toll on my mental health and even after having him, I've felt like I haven't had enough support from my husband. He is very good with our son, and is hands on, but not with anything else at home. I feel like I'm run ragged, and if I say a word about it all I get is how much work he has to do etc.

Its a constant battle with him. Nothing I say sinks in. He doesn't listen to me and if I get upset or annoyed he holds it against me. He brings up every little thing that's ever happened. He can't move on from anything. I've suggested marriage counselling numerous times, but he has no interest in going. He tells me I need to go to counselling! He definitely needs some, even if it is marriage counselling, but he needs it as he certainly has issues that he just can't accept he has.

I am just worn out. I get nowhere with him. He seems to want me to get angry so he can say see you are nuts or that I need help. He literally frustrates me so much. I can't communicate with him as he turns every single thing I say back on me. He exaggerates so much too that I feel like he can't see reality. He blames me for things constantly. He has some sort of issue where he can't accept an answer and has to analyse things to death. He has made it impossible to be around him. I've asked him to go as I can't take it anymore. I am being worn down and I don't have the energy to put in the effort anymore. He makes no effort to work on our marriage, just blames me for all the issues we have. Its literally never his fault. He thinks he can speak to me whatever way he wants and I should just say nothing. Believe me I know I have my faults, and I get angry, but the fact he cannot accept how he acts towards me is beyond me.

If we don't get counselling then we can't go on anymore. But I am at a loss as to what to do then. I am so sad and upset and I can't believe how little he cares. He won't even try for our child.

sorry if this is so long and jumbled up. I don't even know how to explain it properly.

Neyite

You can still get counselling, even if he wont. It would certainly help for you to straighten it out in your head. Counselling doesn't necessarily need to be for you to fix things, but also to form an exit strategy from a marriage.



From my experience, any relationship that is moderately successful is because two people are putting the effort in - emotionally and practically. He doesn't sound like he is. You can't change him - only he can do that if he wants. He won't go to counselling or accept that he has any blame for how unhappy you both seem to be, so really your only option is probably to think about separating, sad to say.

cj maxx

+1 on seeing a counsellor by yourself and for yourself.
It sounds like he’s already checked out of the marriage to a certain degree and did so a while ago , hence the refusal to engage with you or counselling .

LegacyUser

Thanks for your replies. I will look into counselling for myself. Do you think I should go to a marriage counsellor or just a regular one? Maybe if I go to a marriage one he may see I am willing to do it and decide to make the effort to...who knows! I won't hold my breath, but as you say, it may help me to work on myself and help me decide what to do.

thanks again.

cj maxx

heneverlistens wrote: »

Thanks for your replies. I will look into counselling for myself. Do you think I should go to a marriage counsellor or just a regular one? Maybe if I go to a marriage one he may see I am willing to do it and decide to make the effort to...who knows! I won't hold my breath, but as you say, it may help me to work on myself and help me decide what to do.

thanks again.

Someone with more knowledge of how counselling works can correct me if I’m wrong but I think any counsellor would be able to work for you and help you with your decision.
There’s a lot of separate , though intertwined emotions in a break up of a marriage in my experience.
Guilt, loss of direction , sense of failure and grief to name a few..
A good non specific counsellor might cover all them although,again, if anyone has a more knowledgable opinion please step in.
Also you’ll need to see a solicitor re the house,child and finances etc to see where you stand and if it affects your decision or other issues that brings up a counsellor can address.

H8GHOTI

Is this a problem with housework or is there more to it? You want support. With cooking, cleaning etc..? Emotional support or what do you mean?

You are together 17 years. How long is he like this?

Do you work? Is that what he’s saying, that he won’t help out around the house because he works and you don’t?

What do you think the problem is? He doesn’t view these household tasks as important or he’s lazy?

LegacyUser

Its much more than he just doesn't help with housework. Its how he speaks to me, he isn't interested in much I have to say. He gets irritated with me. He can't ever see a thing he says or does wrong. He quite literally thinks he can lecture me on how I speak, or how I act. He makes me feel like I can't do anything right. Its worse he has gotten over the years. Things have got a lot worse since we had our baby though.

We both work, we run a business together. He does work hard running the business, but so do I, and then I have everything to do at home. I literally do everything, including gardening, lawn etc. He's great with our son, but I have no help with anything else. He does a little bit of washing up, but compared to everything I do its not exactly much. I don't nag him about it often, I can't be bothered anymore. I have said to him in the last few days that I am sick of it and that I shouldn't have to ask him to do things. He has so much stuff around the house, old clothes, shoes etc and I have asked him to sort through them and get rid of things, but he always has the excuse how busy he is and never does it. I am not allowed to do it though! Its so frustrating.

I won't deny I have said and done things wrong too. I get upset and angry with him when I shouldn't. But can be difficult to deal with. I find it hard to communicate with him as everything turns into a row.
I just don't know how much more of it I can put up with.

Upforthematch

It sounds like your husband is falling into the old style 'irish' father profile. Unless there is abusive behaviour you haven't mentioned it sounds like you're in a rut in your relationship but hardly in the "marriage is over" territory, unless you want it to be, which is a totally different conversation.

Counselling as mentioned above is a good idea. Another suggestion, go visit a sister, cousin etc... for a break apart from him, with or without your 4 year old. It will give you some breathing space in the short term.

It's sounds like your husband is reacting to being, as he may uncharitably see it, "bossed around". For example, why should he have to go through his items on your timetable?

My guess is that you are both probably shattered after 4 tough years of child rearing. Good news, the next 4 years wont be a fraction as hard or sleep depriving! But you need to both build up some positive experiences together now, it sounds like the well of goodwill on both your parts has been drained dry. Good luck!

punisher5112

Might sound nuts but have you ever considered getting someone in once or twice a week to help around the house? Maybe help with the ironing or cleaning around and that.

Maybe he is over worked and drained.

Definitely talk and try and work it out if possible.

Neyite

The biggest problem is the way he speaks to you. It's not acceptable, pure and simple. It's verbal and emotional abuse.

You've a son. He will grow up thinking this is how you speak to the woman you love, this is how you treat her.

He's speaking to you like this because he can. I'm sure you are not a person to leave a marriage lightly but I don't see what else you can do here. This is who he is. It might happen that if/when you leave, he has a ephiphany about the way he treats you and tries to change, maybe even does change, in order to keep you. But then that may breed resentment that a) he was capable of treating you respectfully all along, but chose not to, and b) he did it for himself so he wouldn't lose you, and never did it for you when you were practically on your knees hurting over the way he speaks to you.

I dunno - I'm not a fan of bluffing. I think if you feel you need to leave to get him to sit up and pay attention, then you've got to be fully committed to leaving because it may be the better option for you, and not pretend-leaving to teach him a lesson.

But you can't live with someone who is contemptuous of you. You can't love someone like that - their behaviour kills off any feelings you have towards them eventually. It might be an idea to see if Womens Aid can recommend a counsellor in your area - often they 'get' how impossible it is to live with an angry, critical partner and might be able to recommend a counsellor that suits your situation - I think right now you need someone impartial who won't judge you for or steer you towards either leaving or staying, just someone who helps you unravel your thoughts and feelings, until you get a stronger sense of what you need to do.

nthclare

Men are complicated at the best of times,as a man I'll admit that.

We're complex creatures and it's hard to figure us out, there's a new man in both your lives and he's now the most important man in the room is the new baby and rightly so.

So the dynamics of the family unit have changed and all the attention is on your boy and your mother's instinct kick's in which is natural.

Men are men and they're not mother's but father's, some guy's adapt really well others pull back and try to figure out how to adapt to the new arrival and it can take time.

Thankfully I've been through fatherhood and know all the dynamics of sleepless nights, disagreement and different opinions.

Men by nature are not like women, they enjoy the more playful and adventurous side of being a parent, sport's, pastimes and being the hunter gatherer.
Maybe if you encourage him to bring the little lad out for walks in the pram buggy, maybe take him out in the car for a few hours on a Saturday and have his own time with him while you get your space too so you can have breathing space. And himself and your boy can have more bonding time. And you can mix it up and go on road trips together.

Hanging around the house will stagnate your relationship and being out of the comfort zone and into open spaces is very important for families.

I'm 45 now and a lot of my upbringing was spending time outdoors and dad was very outdoorsy so he'd give mam time out and the space gave them space too.

My opinion isn't written in stone obviously, because we're all different.

Your husband will come around, but I know it's frustrating too putting up with a moody man lacking lustre for being empathic, helpful and supportive.

Us men are complicated and difficult to understand, we don't express our feelings like women do.

Wishing you luck and I hope you get some clarity soon enough.

meeeeh

If you two also run business together there will be a lot more mess if your relationship is not resolved in one way or another. Even if you split up you will have to find a way to work together or one of you will have to find a job outside your business. I know a bit about family businesses, it can work well but only if people trust each other and work with each other. It can be also extremely difficult if there are financial challenges. I don't know how affected you are by Corona and how much that is adding to the stress.

At home you will have to get some help. I'm in similar situation to you and do wast majority of stuff at home (I work about 30 hours per week and OH 60 to 70). However the only thing I do in the garden is pay the gardener. So if you two can't deal with certain things then get someone in or don't do them. Overgrown garden is not the worst thing in the world.

However your main problem is that you two can't communicate properly anymore. That will have to be resolved somehow for the sake of your child and your business. I think it's always worrying if one of the partners doesn't want to do counselling. It's like they are not prepared to do everything to save the marriage. Go to counselling yourself you need to talk things through with someone but if I was you I'd also talk to the solicitor. You need to know where you stand regarding your business too. In your case it's not just your marriage but also your income that could be affected.

Coybig_

What is his job and working hours, and what is your job and working hours, out of curiosity? It would be helpful to know.

LegacyUser

Coybig_ wrote: »

What is his job and working hours, and what is your job and working hours, out of curiosity? It would be helpful to know.

We both work together in a family business which we run. Its a retail business. I work 4 days a week full time in the business, my husband does a lot more hours, which I know isn't easy. I work a lot in the evening too with bookwork/website etc.

Our business hasn't been affected by covid, thankfully, but it has still brought its challenges as we were quite busy and I was home for the whole of lockdown by myself with my little boy and he had to work the entire time. We did try to break it up a bit and I would go in but it was mainly him.

LegacyUser

punisher5112 wrote: »

Might sound nuts but have you ever considered getting someone in once or twice a week to help around the house? Maybe help with the ironing or cleaning around and that.

Maybe he is over worked and drained.

Definitely talk and try and work it out if possible.

I would love to get someone in to help with a few things, but we can't really afford it yet as we have been trying to get our finances in order for the last few years. We have put off a lot of jobs around the house due to finances. Thankfully we are in a better position than we used to be, but not quite out of the woods yet. Which obviously has caused a lot of stress in the last few years.

LegacyUser

nthclare wrote: »

Men are complicated at the best of times,as a man I'll admit that.

We're complex creatures and it's hard to figure us out, there's a new man in both your lives and he's now the most important man in the room is the new baby and rightly so.

So the dynamics of the family unit have changed and all the attention is on your boy and your mother's instinct kick's in which is natural.

Men are men and they're not mother's but father's, some guy's adapt really well others pull back and try to figure out how to adapt to the new arrival and it can take time.

Thankfully I've been through fatherhood and know all the dynamics of sleepless nights, disagreement and different opinions.

Men by nature are not like women, they enjoy the more playful and adventurous side of being a parent, sport's, pastimes and being the hunter gatherer.
Maybe if you encourage him to bring the little lad out for walks in the pram buggy, maybe take him out in the car for a few hours on a Saturday and have his own time with him while you get your space too so you can have breathing space. And himself and your boy can have more bonding time. And you can mix it up and go on road trips together.

Hanging around the house will stagnate your relationship and being out of the comfort zone and into open spaces is very important for families.

I'm 45 now and a lot of my upbringing was spending time outdoors and dad was very outdoorsy so he'd give mam time out and the space gave them space too.

My opinion isn't written in stone obviously, because we're all different.

Your husband will come around, but I know it's frustrating too putting up with a moody man lacking lustre for being empathic, helpful and supportive.

Us men are complicated and difficult to understand, we don't express our feelings like women do.

Wishing you luck and I hope you get some clarity soon enough.

He is very good with our son. He has always been good that way and I've acknowledged that with him. He often takes him out on his own, and they love it. We do things together as a family too. He loves to spend time with him on his own and I know its good for them as father and son. He also often takes him down for breakfast in the morning and lets me rest a while (especially if the little fella has woken me in the night, which isn't often anymore thankfully!). I found it hard during lockdown as I was home with him on my own most of the time while my husband was at work. It was like being back on maternity but with a 3 year old and no opportunity to rest like I could then or go out for coffee!

Everyone has been through the mill the last few months and I know its put a lot of pressure on many a relationship. I just feel like since we had a baby things have shifted a lot away from us, which is not unusual obviously. We have had a few nights & weekends away on our own which are actually always good and he is always a lot more relaxed in better form. We always seem to get on better! We just can't go away as often as we would like. I don't think we should be ending things, I don't want to, I just need a little bit more respect and a bit more help.

one other thing about this is that I really wanted another baby but it isn't going to happen now as we can't with things the way they are. I also have fertility issues which doesn't help, and I'm as I'm almost 44, it feels like too much against us on that side of things, which is really getting me down.

My head is all over the place. I am going to look into counselling anyway as if anything I need it for me. Fertility issues alone have taken its toll on my mental health and made me feel very sad. As much as my little boy was so wanted and much longed for, I just would have loved the chance of another.

cj maxx

Upforthematch wrote: »

. Unless there is abusive behaviour you haven't mentioned it sounds like you're in a rut in your relationship but hardly in the "marriage is over" territory, unless you want it to be, which is a totally different conversation.


It's sounds like your husband is reacting to being, as he may uncharitably see it, "bossed around". For example, why should he have to go through his items on your timetable?

I think upforthematch has hit the nail on the head.
I had mistakenly taken your post as you had decided to end the marriage, rather than expressing a fear of it.

punisher5112

heneverlistens wrote: »

I would love to get someone in to help with a few things, but we can't really afford it yet as we have been trying to get our finances in order for the last few years. We have put off a lot of jobs around the house due to finances. Thankfully we are in a better position than we used to be, but not quite out of the woods yet. Which obviously has caused a lot of stress in the last few years.

Fully appreciate where your coming from but you would be surprised at how much something like that might help and won't be as expensive as you might think....

You both sound burnt out and work is taking over.....

House will always need bits doing and I definitely would give it a go and see.

You both need time off together but also time apart....

You do say you are busier then ever so I would like to think the business is doing well.... I'd definitely change a few things and if it's something to take out a bit of stress do it.

Coybig_

Right so objectively he has to be totally burned out. You've said that he is working a lot more hours than you, so he probably expects that you pick up the slack in the home when he is picking up the slack in the business. To be honest, that would be my opinion on it too, as a man. Maybe the women in here would have different opinions.

It does sound like a highly stressful situation for everyone involved. You say that you are run ragged, yet you have acknowledged that he works a lot more hours than you, so imagine how he feels!

Not to say that I dont empathise with you because its clear that you do plenty too. But maybe he is taking more of the mental brunt of a struggling business?

As for the arguing, it's natural for people to be irritable when they are under so much pressure, as you both are. What is really required, above all else is someone else to come in and take on some of this load. I'm talking about a cleaner in the house and a staff member in the shop.

Also, if you could get the child to a grandparent for a weekend and give away on a staycation or something? I get the sense that some time away from the pressures of everyday life could give you both some perspective and time to reflect.

meeeeh

Coybig_ wrote: »

Right so objectively he has to be totally burned out. You've said that he is working a lot more hours than you, so he probably expects that you pick up the slack in the home when he is picking up the slack in the business. To be honest, that would be my opinion on it too, as a man. Maybe the women in here would have different opinions.

As someone who was in very similar position as op (we went trough the recession with business that was heavily hit and two young kids) I can tell you that they are very likely both run ragged. You can't dismiss loads of work that needs to be done at home as unimportant. Op also said she also does work in the evening for the business. Being run ragged is no excuse to dismiss other persons concerns, pleas for help and refuse to go to counseling. I suspect their disagreements probably also spill int work or at least work isn't much of time away from disputes.

Op, I don't know. While I had many similar pressures as you, they never spilled in to our personal relationship. You had many challenging years and you will have to think how much is it due you two growing apart and how much it sheer pressure of young child and work.

redfox123

What would happen if you pulled completely back and focussed on yourself, your well being and your happiness? Are you dealing with someone who is like a real life troll, that will follow you around when you’re busy and criticise you on what you’re doing and randomly bring up stuff that puts you down, and give out to you about past things?
Or is his behaviour to you always as a defense at you giving out (you may not think it’s nagging but no matter how nicely you put it he will take it, immaturely, as you being cross about something and go into defense mode). I’ve dealt for a long time with men like this. It’s so common, they literally cannot listen, or communicate normally without getting stubborn/defensive/abusive.

You cannot change people like this, the only thing you can do is alter your behaviour. If you can’t do that within the marriage and the man you think you married has really changed that much from who you thought he was, then you will have to seperate. If you want to stay in the marriage you have to come up with alternate options like as above poster says getting a cleaner. It would solve so many problems. Yes you still have the resentment of how he is treating you. My hunch is he has always been like this though. And you married him, you just didn’t have the level of stress you have now.

In situations like yours the ONLY way to navigate it is pulling all that energy directed at him back to yourself. Yes you need help but he isn’t changing. The basic things around the house you can do, leave the rest and concentrate on yourself and your mental health. Until you have that help.

You are angry and resentful of him. He knows this. This is why you need to stop focusing on him and start focusing on yourself.

Women are very different to men no matter what is said. The energy is completely different. Men never want to be told what to do (no matter how much it needs to be told). They want complete freedom. As unfair as that seems it’s been my experience. Women want to be heard and want emotional connection. You won’t get that from him, I promise. So start giving it yourself, either with help of a counsellor, or spending more time with a friend. Book an evening a week for him to take your child and you go meet them. It would be a positive start.

Upforthematch

meeeeh wrote: »

Being run ragged is no excuse to dismiss other persons concerns, pleas for help and refuse to go to counseling. I suspect their disagreements probably also spill int work or at least work isn't much of time away from disputes.

Op, I don't know. While I had many similar pressures as you, they never spilled in to our personal relationship.

Yes this is the challenge here. Not listening and not taking up suggestions is major disrespect to you and your relationship (distinct from emotional abuse imho). If this is "who he is" I can see your concern. If this is him reacting to an ongoing highly stressful situation, I think this is simply a low point in your relationship. All relationships have highs and lows.

Do consider counselling just for you in the first instance so that you can get those benefits. But also be aware of the risk of accidently weaponising it though, e.g. turning counselling into an ultimatum "you're not serious about us if you dont go to counselling too". This wont help imo.

MissShihTzu

I think the suggestion of a cleaner is an excellent one. A decent one is about E15 an hour and worth their weight in gold. Cleaner could come by a couple of hours a week (socially distanced and masked up). You could either take a break from work, do exercises on YouTube, couple of little light tasks from the business - whatever. Get someone to do your ironing too! .. They don't cost a fortune, and could save your relationship as well as your sanity

How about an au pair for a couple of hours to help with the baby? But you need the break. It's been a tough couple of years and no wonder! Both of you sound stressed to the gills and exhausted.

I hope something can be worked out. Good luck!

Hannibal_Smith

The housework and not doing his fair share is just the tip of the iceberg. I don't think getting a cleaner will make things better. It will certainly lesson your workload, but it won't fix how he speaks to you or treats you.

Do you want to end the marriage? Do you have time to attend counselling yourself (given you've said he won't go) and try and talk it all through with someone properly?

LegacyUser

MissShihTzu wrote: »

I think the suggestion of a cleaner is an excellent one. A decent one is about E15 an hour and worth their weight in gold. Cleaner could come by a couple of hours a week (socially distanced and masked up). You could either take a break from work, do exercises on YouTube, couple of little light tasks from the business - whatever. Get someone to do your ironing too! .. They don't cost a fortune, and could save your relationship as well as your sanity

How about an au pair for a couple of hours to help with the baby? But you need the break. It's been a tough couple of years and no wonder! Both of you sound stressed to the gills and exhausted.

I hope something can be worked out. Good luck!

Thanks! I am definitely going to look into getting someone in to do a bit of cleaning. Maybe just every 2 weeks. We don't need an aupair as our little boy is 4 and in preschool. He's a great little boy and I feel bad for him as I don't want him to grow up with us bickering.

I manage to get out to the gym a couple of evenings a week, I could do with going more often!

MissShihTzu

Hannibal_Smith wrote: »

The housework and not doing his fair share is just the tip of the iceberg. I don't think getting a cleaner will make things better. It will certainly lesson your workload, but it won't fix how he speaks to you or treats you.

Do you want to end the marriage? Do you have time to attend counselling yourself (given you've said he won't go) and try and talk it all through with someone properly?

I don't think it will make things better. That's not what I meant. I meant it as a way of getting breathing space. So the OP CAN make the time to go to counselling by herself if she wishes, or just some me time....

LegacyUser

redfox123 wrote: »

What would happen if you pulled completely back and focussed on yourself, your well being and your happiness? Are you dealing with someone who is like a real life troll, that will follow you around when you’re busy and criticise you on what you’re doing and randomly bring up stuff that puts you down, and give out to you about past things?
Or is his behaviour to you always as a defense at you giving out (you may not think it’s nagging but no matter how nicely you put it he will take it, immaturely, as you being cross about something and go into defense mode). I’ve dealt for a long time with men like this. It’s so common, they literally cannot listen, or communicate normally without getting stubborn/defensive/abusive.

You cannot change people like this, the only thing you can do is alter your behaviour. If you can’t do that within the marriage and the man you think you married has really changed that much from who you thought he was, then you will have to seperate. If you want to stay in the marriage you have to come up with alternate options like as above poster says getting a cleaner. It would solve so many problems. Yes you still have the resentment of how he is treating you. My hunch is he has always been like this though. And you married him, you just didn’t have the level of stress you have now.

In situations like yours the ONLY way to navigate it is pulling all that energy directed at him back to yourself. Yes you need help but he isn’t changing. The basic things around the house you can do, leave the rest and concentrate on yourself and your mental health. Until you have that help.

You are angry and resentful of him. He knows this. This is why you need to stop focusing on him and start focusing on yourself.

Women are very different to men no matter what is said. The energy is completely different. Men never want to be told what to do (no matter how much it needs to be told). They want complete freedom. As unfair as that seems it’s been my experience. Women want to be heard and want emotional connection. You won’t get that from him, I promise. So start giving it yourself, either with help of a counsellor, or spending more time with a friend. Book an evening a week for him to take your child and you go meet them. It would be a positive start.

Thanks. What you are saying makes a lot of sense! I have a lot to think about. I really don't want our marriage to end, but I also want him to act like he cares about me. We don't even show affection to each other anymore, and its sad. I am going to start to try and relax a bit as I just feel as though I am worked up too much. I probably need to chat to someone though as I don't really have any close friends I can talk to.

I appreciate all the advise etc on here. Its given me a lot to think about.

kaymin

heneverlistens wrote: »

Thanks. What you are saying makes a lot of sense! I have a lot to think about. I really don't want our marriage to end, but I also want him to act like he cares about me. We don't even show affection to each other anymore, and its sad. I am going to start to try and relax a bit as I just feel as though I am worked up too much. I probably need to chat to someone though as I don't really have any close friends I can talk to.

I appreciate all the advise etc on here. Its given me a lot to think about.

You need to stop criticising him if he is going to want to display care. He's been working way more hours than you and then comes home to criticism. Is giving out about the extra shoes lying around really worth it when you know the effect your criticism has on him?. He responds in kind leading to a downward spiral. Yes he should let you tidy them up if that's what you want to do. Clearly he has his faults as does everyone.

It takes the bigger person to acknowledge their faults and if you were willing to take that step then he might reciprocate and both of you can see things from each others perspectives. You don't want the marriage to end - there's no indication he does - he's just frustrated at the constant criticism and wants an easier life. He's unlikely to want to be affectionate until the criticism stops.

Do you want to create a happy home or a spotless home? Yes its a gross simplification but a question you might ask yourself when interacting with your husband.

kowloonkev

Upforthematch wrote: »

It sounds like your husband is falling into the old style 'irish' father profile.

or maybe she has fallen into the old style 'irish' mother profile?

Daisy78

punisher5112 wrote: »

Might sound nuts but have you ever considered getting someone in once or twice a week to help around the house? Maybe help with the ironing or cleaning around and that.

Maybe he is over worked and drained.

Definitely talk and try and work it out if possible.

Was about to suggest this. Doesn’t mean it will solve the underlying issues that are clearly there but would take some pressure of you.

padser

Hannibal_Smith wrote: »

not doing his fair share is just the tip of the iceberg. I don't think getting a cleaner will make things better. ]

There's nothing the OP has said that suggests her husband isn't doing his fair share. She basically has said he does more of the business work, she does more of the housework and they share childminding.

She has said she overworked, but also acknowledged that he also works hard.

It's either a huge stretch to suggest he isn't doing his fair share, or you need to selectively choose an area and say he isnt doing his fair share their.

Posts like this are particularly unhelpful for someone trying to save a marriage, as they boil down to "your partner is a d1ck, and doesn't deserve you". They are of zero use in saving a relationship, in particular when they jump to conclusions on insufficient evidence.

@OP - I would suggest ignoring these type of posts

@OP - also ignore comments suggesting getting a cleaner wouldn't help. Part (although not all) of your problem is being overworked, getting s cleaner will 100% help with that. Great idea.

One suggestion, try to ensure that getting the cleaner has some benefits for you both. You mentioned he does the dishes - try and get part of what the cleaner does be some of that. Aim to try and (albeit slightly) reduce the workload on both of you.

Never underestimate how small steps, gestures and solving one part of the problem can have wider positive impacts

Hannibal_Smith

Quoting the OP herself—

He is very good with our son, and is hands on, but not with anything else at home. I feel like I'm run ragged....

We both work, we run a business together. He does work hard running the business, but so do I, and then I have everything to do at home. I literally do everything, including gardening, lawn etc. He's great with our son, but I have no help with anything else.

He does a little bit of washing up, but compared to everything I do its not exactly much.

He has so much stuff around the house, old clothes, shoes etc and I have asked him to sort through them and get rid of things, but he always has the excuse how busy he is and never does it.

My point was, a cleaner is not going to solve how he speaks to the OP. That's where the real problem is and what really needs dealing with.

Gruffalux

You get to the gym twice a week. Ye have enjoyed nights away together. Ye are both working hard. He is messy in the house. He bites back when you bite. He is a great Dad. Loves his son and minds him.

A lot of this is good and the bad parts are normal.

You admit you can be angry. There is not a lot of affection between ye. You say things. He says things. Intimacy is probably an issue. Sounds like there are two of ye in it. If you give out to someone a lot expect them to criticise you right back or do whatever is their version of not lying down like a doormat. If he criticises you he should expect you to be hurt and cross.

Get a cleaner. 3 hours a week is worth the 50 quid and they do so much in that time. Start letting some things go - his messiness, his laxness re housework. Appreciate what he does do. I honestly have no idea how people who put in huge days at work manage to do any housework or cooking.

It sounds like you love him. Recognise ye are both at this jibing and undermining each other due to stress, but maybe he is better at getting the digs in. If on your part you honestly stop all that for a good while, bite your tongue, let things go etc, emphasise the good ye have by saying it, and if he keeps up with his crap then that is completely different.

HildaOgdenx

'I am just worn out. I get nowhere with him. He seems to want me to get angry so he can say see you are nuts or that I need help. He literally frustrates me so much. I can't communicate with him as he turns every single thing I say back on me. He exaggerates so much too that I feel like he can't see reality. He blames me for things constantly. He has some sort of issue where he can't accept an answer and has to analyse things to death. He has made it impossible to be around him. I've asked him to go as I can't take it anymore. I am being worn down and I don't have the energy to put in the effort anymore. He makes no effort to work on our marriage, just blames me for all the issues we have. Its literally never his fault. He thinks he can speak to me whatever way he wants and I should just say nothing. Believe me I know I have my faults, and I get angry, but the fact he cannot accept how he acts towards me is beyond me.'

OP, I know he has said no to marriage counselling, but I think you personally would find it helpful to be able to discuss things with a counsellor, and help you to clarify, for yourself, whether or not the marriage is over.

It's about a lot more, in my opinion, than sharing of workload. It's, as has been said, about the behaviour that is being modelled to your child also.
I know that what we all have been through in the past five/ six months has put a strain on everyone. You also mention fertility issues, and that's something that can put a lot of pressure on relationships too.

In relation to employing a cleaner, yes, that might help a bit. If there's a lot of mess around, that would have to be cleared up, so that the cleaner can clean.

As I said, I think it's a lot deeper than that.

Have a look at this link, and find yourself a counsellor. Most are providing sessions via zoom / Skype if they are not yet seeing clients face to face. Take care.
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057956018

AndrewJRenko

I wonder if part of the problem is the challenge of working together as well as living together. I know I couldn't do it, and work provides an alternative outlet, different people, different conversations. Is there an option to keep work and home life more separate? Perhaps one or other could drop out of the business and leave the other to take full ownership of this?

LegacyUser

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

I wonder if part of the problem is the challenge of working together as well as living together. I know I couldn't do it, and work provides an alternative outlet, different people, different conversations. Is there an option to keep work and home life more separate? Perhaps one or other could drop out of the business and leave the other to take full ownership of this?

Its not really an option for either of us to drop out of the business. We have both worked hard to keep the business from going under (back in the last recession) and we sacrificed a LOT to keep it afloat. I'm used to us working together, it doesn't bother me that much and its not the issue, although it can spill into it from time to time, but its home life that I find the biggest issues arise.

LegacyUser

kaymin wrote: »

You need to stop criticising him if he is going to want to display care. He's been working way more hours than you and then comes home to criticism. Is giving out about the extra shoes lying around really worth it when you know the effect your criticism has on him?. He responds in kind leading to a downward spiral. Yes he should let you tidy them up if that's what you want to do. Clearly he has his faults as does everyone.

It takes the bigger person to acknowledge their faults and if you were willing to take that step then he might reciprocate and both of you can see things from each others perspectives. You don't want the marriage to end - there's no indication he does - he's just frustrated at the constant criticism and wants an easier life. He's unlikely to want to be affectionate until the criticism stops.

Do you want to create a happy home or a spotless home? Yes its a gross simplification but a question you might ask yourself when interacting with your husband.

I know men think women just nag, but that's not what I feel I am doing. I don't keep criticising him or telling him to move his shoes. I don't go on about the small things around the house, Its not day to day 'please tidy up' stuff. I have said to him about clearing out wardrobes full of old clutter and clearing the attic or garage. I can assure you I don't say it on a daily basis, I probably don't say it on a monthly basis. Its just when I suggest we do a clear out etc I get the reluctance. I have tried to suggest I would do the clear out of his old clothes etc, but I then get told not to touch anything. If I have tried to he doesn't like it and I wish I hadn't bothered to help.

I take on most tasks around the house, if I don't it won't get done. I could wreck his head about it and be the nagging wife, but that isn't the case. I don't expect him to do loads around the house, just help on some things...especially cooking, which I hate with a passion! I would love to come home and have someone make me dinner for a change, but the only time that happens is when we get a take-away!

Having someone do things for you without being asked is nice, and I feel taken for granted.

I may sound like I am nagging him, but this isn't what this is about. Men also need to realise that its not a woman's job to look after the home and why should we?

LegacyUser

HildaOgdenx wrote: »

'I am just worn out. I get nowhere with him. He seems to want me to get angry so he can say see you are nuts or that I need help. He literally frustrates me so much. I can't communicate with him as he turns every single thing I say back on me. He exaggerates so much too that I feel like he can't see reality. He blames me for things constantly. He has some sort of issue where he can't accept an answer and has to analyse things to death. He has made it impossible to be around him. I've asked him to go as I can't take it anymore. I am being worn down and I don't have the energy to put in the effort anymore. He makes no effort to work on our marriage, just blames me for all the issues we have. Its literally never his fault. He thinks he can speak to me whatever way he wants and I should just say nothing. Believe me I know I have my faults, and I get angry, but the fact he cannot accept how he acts towards me is beyond me.'

OP, I know he has said no to marriage counselling, but I think you personally would find it helpful to be able to discuss things with a counsellor, and help you to clarify, for yourself, whether or not the marriage is over.

It's about a lot more, in my opinion, than sharing of workload. It's, as has been said, about the behaviour that is being modelled to your child also.
I know that what we all have been through in the past five/ six months has put a strain on everyone. You also mention fertility issues, and that's something that can put a lot of pressure on relationships too.

In relation to employing a cleaner, yes, that might help a bit. If there's a lot of mess around, that would have to be cleared up, so that the cleaner can clean.

As I said, I think it's a lot deeper than that.

Have a look at this link, and find yourself a counsellor. Most are providing sessions via zoom / Skype if they are not yet seeing clients face to face. Take care.
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057956018

Thanks, I am going to definitely look into talking to someone. I did go to a counsellor about 13/14 years ago so its been a long time. I feel it may help me as I am finding myself getting more and more frustrated and unhappy. I have had a lot to deal with because of the fertility issues I have had and its upsetting me again recently as I feel like I have run out of time to have another. I know he can't really understand how, as a woman, it can make us feel when we have these types of issues. Thankfully we didn't have to deal with any miscarriages or losses, but not being able to naturally conceive was very stressful, especially me as I had to deal with it month after month for years before we did any fertility treatment. I probably should have gone to counselling at the time, but it wasn't suggested. After we had our baby, I think I had some form of post-natal depression, although I don't think it was severe, I do think I had it and that it is part of the issues we have now. I don't think he understands that side of things, or at least I don't think he can empathise with me.

LegacyUser

Gruffalox wrote: »

You get to the gym twice a week. Ye have enjoyed nights away together. Ye are both working hard. He is messy in the house. He bites back when you bite. He is a great Dad. Loves his son and minds him.

A lot of this is good and the bad parts are normal.

You admit you can be angry. There is not a lot of affection between ye. You say things. He says things. Intimacy is probably an issue. Sounds like there are two of ye in it. If you give out to someone a lot expect them to criticise you right back or do whatever is their version of not lying down like a doormat. If he criticises you he should expect you to be hurt and cross.

Get a cleaner. 3 hours a week is worth the 50 quid and they do so much in that time. Start letting some things go - his messiness, his laxness re housework. Appreciate what he does do. I honestly have no idea how people who put in huge days at work manage to do any housework or cooking.

It sounds like you love him. Recognise ye are both at this jibing and undermining each other due to stress, but maybe he is better at getting the digs in. If on your part you honestly stop all that for a good while, bite your tongue, let things go etc, emphasise the good ye have by saying it, and if he keeps up with his crap then that is completely different.

Thanks. Your post is pretty much what I'm trying to explain! I think its like with kids, know when to pick your battles and what isn't worth the hassle! I need to let go of some things that just aren't worth having a row over!

Gruffalux

heneverlistens wrote: »

Thanks. Your post is pretty much what I'm trying to explain! I think its like with kids, know when to pick your battles and what isn't worth the hassle! I need to let go of some things that just aren't worth having a row over!

Honest to god knowing which battles to pick and which to sidestep is one of the secrets to life. Plus, every home needs one fvuking eegit is another of life's secrets. Once you accept that things improve vastly. We have 2 bathrooms for example. Since the kids left home he has one and I have the other. I clean mine. Like, obviously! He grows new life forms in his, until spurred into feverish cleaning bursts when even he is ashamed of it. This for me is the empirical proof that if I was not the fcuking eegit in our home we would be living in a mud-encrusted hovel full of dust-covered eccentric junk. Meh. The scales balances in different ways. How your fella minds his boy is a big plus, for example.
Still....keep an eye on him talking nasty if he does. Just calmly point it out every time. But keep an eye.

redfox123

heneverlistens wrote: »

I know men think women just nag, but that's not what I feel I am doing. I don't keep criticising him or telling him to move his shoes. I don't go on about the small things around the house, Its not day to day 'please tidy up' stuff. I have said to him about clearing out wardrobes full of old clutter and clearing the attic or garage. I can assure you I don't say it on a daily basis, I probably don't say it on a monthly basis. Its just when I suggest we do a clear out etc I get the reluctance. I have tried to suggest I would do the clear out of his old clothes etc, but I then get told not to touch anything. If I have tried to he doesn't like it and I wish I hadn't bothered to help.

I take on most tasks around the house, if I don't it won't get done. I could wreck his head about it and be the nagging wife, but that isn't the case. I don't expect him to do loads around the house, just help on some things...especially cooking, which I hate with a passion! I would love to come home and have someone make me dinner for a change, but the only time that happens is when we get a take-away!

Having someone do things for you without being asked is nice, and I feel taken for granted.

I may sound like I am nagging him, but this isn't what this is about. Men also need to realise that its not a woman's job to look after the home and why should we?

If it seems like you never or rarely ask then how come you are arguing all the time? How does it start, and they don’t sound one off, as your levels of stress and frustration at him are very high going by your OP.

When I said take the energy you are investing in getting him to change and focus on yourself I meant all the frustration you’re feeling at him too. It’s all directed at him. That is a lost cause, it will make him worse. Again you cannot change someone. You can change you, or how you deal with a situation. If you don’t actually say it he will sense it, it’s bleeding into your affection as a couple, there is none.

If you’re exhausted and don’t want to cook for him and he never does for you, well then just get food for yourself! Look after yourself, full stop. You’re right, why should you do everything? Leave him to it. Stop doing the same things over and over and expecting a different reaction or different habits from him. If he says anything about why you won’t cook for him leave the room, say I asked you to cook sometimes, you won’t so this is only fair.

If he really wanted to or has to change he would.

I don’t know what business you’re in but do you think if a client or customer wanted to sit down and discuss a large deal involving money, he would have these ‘listening’ or ‘communication issues’? Hell no he wouldn’t. He would listen and discuss all day. He is choosing not to with you because doesn’t WANT to, there’s nothing in it for him except having to do more work around the house.

So stop doing things except for you and the child. Imagine how life would be without him there and act accordingly because you have tried communicating with him and it’s a lost cause. So change the actions not the words. Make yourself happy don’t rely on him, and when he sees how happy you are it might just change his behaviour towards you.

Lovestolisten

This is going to sound like psychoanalysis of you and the relationship but have you lost 'yourself' in the past 17 years?

The tone seems to be a lot of 'he does this' 'he doesn't do that'

This is an opportunity for you to look at where you are right now.
You have pointed out that you are run ragged and feel like it's the end, but it's not the end of you as a person.
Your relationship and marriage is only a percentage of who you are as a person.

You have unique thoughts and ideas, you have your own sense of identity, you have your own interest, motivation, intelligence, communication style, personality. These are all things that have nothing to do with being a wife or mother. Things that your husband cannot take, wreck or change.
These are your traits that you own for yourself. Build on that.

Get a diary and write down each day if you have time how you feel about yourself Nothing about your husband and what he has done.

Short lines or big long meandering paragraphs, whatever the time or mood allows.
Own yourself and your life.
Its a cliche but why are you allowing another person control who you are as person, control your happiness and ultimately make you feel run ragged?

If you have to, run the house yourself, raise your child let him be the good father but don't let him be the bad husband.
He can only be a bad husband if you let him control your emotions.

All easier said than done but it takes time, it takes effort and after 17 years some part of you will be conditioned to feel and act in certain ways.
It might be time to start undoing those learned behaviours.

Any books by Melody Beattie are good starting points, don't be put off by the theme of alcoholism as the root of the problems she is addressing in the book, it's the overall theme of the damage codependency can have on us and how we can rebuild and break free.

I'm definitely not saying run out and get divorced, you can divorce the man but you can divorce the mindset your left with.
Build yourself up first and then reflect on where you are.

"He has some sort of issue where he can't accept an answer and has to analyse things to death" - This stood out to me. My wife is on the autistic spectrum and she is like this. It can be sometimes EXTREMELY frustrating discussing anything with her, as she will often fixate on one small irrelevant detail (not irrelevant to her though) and bang on about that for hours, until you lose the will to live. For example, if I have loaded the dishwasher 99 times and she did it once, she will say "we both unload the dishwasher". If she does something 10 times and I did it 9 she will say "I always do X". So she phrases things that seem to always put her in the best light - i.e. from her perspective. She has extreme difficulty seeing things from anyone else's perspective other than her own.

However she isn't a selfish person at all, she will happily do selfless things to make me or other people happy.

It took me going to the point of divorce for her to get it checked out. I knew for years something was wrong but the diagnosis made so much sense.

I don't know if this is the case with your husband, but let me tell you it isn't good for your blood pressure.