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Are there any credible conspiracy theories?

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    #632
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,226 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    IAMAMORON wrote: »
    The only scope I give them, is that it is possible that the US Hawks were aware of some sort of terrorist attack, which they were hoping to use as an excuse to invade Iraq, I think that is plausible.
    This is indeed a plausible, rational and believable theory.

    What's odd though is in the nearly 20 years since the event, I don't think I've ever seen a conspiracy theorist argue just this and only this.

    There always has to be something like secret demolitions or faked planes or secret decoded messages.
    I think this is because the rational version of the theory is just a bit boring in comparison. And it doesn't have shocking attention getting claims that people can make a successful internet video on.


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    #633
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,777 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    King Mob wrote: »
    This is indeed a plausible, rational and believable theory.

    What's odd though is in the nearly 20 years since the event, I don't think I've ever seen a conspiracy theorist argue just this and only this.

    The always has to be something like secret demolitions or faked planes or secret decoded messages.
    I think this is because the rational very of the theory is just a bit boring in comparison. And it doesn't have shocking attention getting claims that people can make a successful internet video on.

    Some people can't cope with or understand reality, these conspiracies offer them more comfort. It's big business, Alex Jones for example is worth millions.


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    #634
    ShatterAlan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,807 ✭✭✭ShatterAlan


    storker wrote: »
    Well, there's this thing called gravity...


    I see that the shills have awoken, again.


    So tell us all about gravity there smart guy. While you're at it can you give us a few equations.....Gallilean maybe?


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    #635
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,777 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    ShatterAlan wrote: »
    I see that the shills have awoken

    There's that word again, are you suggesting people who disagree with you are paid? or what?


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    #636
    ShatterAlan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,807 ✭✭✭ShatterAlan


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    There's that word again, are you suggesting people who disagree with you are paid? or what?




    So what's the conspiracy?


    Don't dodge the question...just answer. No maybes or "I don't know" or links to blogs that I don't like.........just answer the question.


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    #637
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,777 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    ShatterAlan wrote: »
    So what's the conspiracy?


    Don't dodge the question...just answer. No maybes or "I don't know" or links to blogs that I don't like.........just answer the question.

    I haven't suggested any conspiracy. I am asking you why you are using the word "shill" to refer to people. Why?


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    #638
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,153 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    I haven't suggested any conspiracy. I am asking you why you are using the word "shill" to refer to people. Why?

    they think you are a shill for Big Explosion :D

    either that or they understand what a shill is.


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    #639
    silliussoddius
    Registered Users Posts: 3,726 ✭✭✭silliussoddius


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    they think you are a shill for Big Explosion :D

    either that or they understand what a shill is.

    Or a shill for the quiet thermite conspiracy.


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    #640
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,153 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    silliussoddius wrote: »
    Or a shill for the quiet thermite conspiracy.

    I hear they pay really well but the interview is really tough.


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    #641
    ShatterAlan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,807 ✭✭✭ShatterAlan


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    Yet again, you can't believe it so it didn't happen. Once again, you are contradicted by the facts




    https://www.highrisefirefighting.co.uk/docs/ttlifts.pdf




    Where did you find this crap? I've seen better written pieces by 12-year olds.


    To wit:


    And when the second jet hit the south tower at 9:03 a.m., 16½ minutes after the attack on the north tower, the World Trade Center's elevator mechanics decided to leave the buildings. They expected to return later to help firefighters but never did.


    :pac::pac:




    Could the dildo who wrote this not have had the brains to capitalise "North Tower, South Tower along with "World Trade Center"


    You have to love the "16 <insert fraction here> minutes



    That crap looks worse than a resume written by a drunk who just graduated, age 22.



    Where did you find this shit? Can I pay to have some?



    :pac:


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    #642
    ShatterAlan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,807 ✭✭✭ShatterAlan


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    I haven't suggested any conspiracy. I am asking you why you are using the word "shill" to refer to people. Why?


    Then why are you always asking people what the conspiracy is?


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    #643
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,777 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    ShatterAlan wrote: »
    Where did you find this crap? I've seen better written pieces by 12-year olds.


    To wit:


    And when the second jet hit the south tower at 9:03 a.m., 16½ minutes after the attack on the north tower, the World Trade Center's elevator mechanics decided to leave the buildings. They expected to return later to help firefighters but never did.


    :pac::pac:




    Could the dildo who wrote this not have had the brains to capitalise "North Tower, South Tower along with "World Trade Center"


    You have to love the "16 <insert fraction here> minutes



    That crap looks worse that a resume written by a drunk who just graduated, age 22.



    Where did you find this shit? Can I pay to have some?



    :pac:

    More incredulity and gobbledygook. You didn't address any of the post at all.


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    #644
    ShatterAlan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,807 ✭✭✭ShatterAlan


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    More incredulity and gobbledygook. You didn't address any of the post at all.


    And you have stated that masks shield ALL infectious diseases.


    Now THAT my friend is gobbledygook.....unless I'm displaying your incredulity by not believing you but rather rolling my eyes at your claims.


    Another (we can get all these 'incredulity' things out of the way, forthwith) episode of yours was to give medical knowledge, though you are not medically educated. What might you say about that?


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    #645
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,777 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    ShatterAlan wrote: »
    Then why are you always asking people what the conspiracy is?

    Because they are suggesting it.

    When someone is claiming: "I can't believe the Titanic sank due to an iceberg", they are suggesting that the Titanic sank due to something else. That there is an alternative explanation. On a conspiracy theory forum, that alternative explanation is usually a conspiracy.

    If you ask that person what the conspiracy or the alternative explanation is, and they have none, then their claim is baseless. It's meaningless.

    So when you claim e.g. you can't believe a passport survived the 9/11 impacts, therefore it didn't survive. First of all you are contradicted by the fact that the passport exists and did survive. Secondly you have no evidence based explanation as to how it exists, nor any coherent conspiracy how it got there. All you have is your incredulity, which means your claim is baseless, meaningless.

    I really don't think you understand any of this because it's been explained to you multiple times by now, and each time seems to go right over your head


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    #646
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,777 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    ShatterAlan wrote: »
    And you have stated that masks shield ALL infectious diseases.

    I haven't.


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    #647
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,777 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    ShatterAlan wrote: »

    Another (we can get all these 'incredulity' things out of the way, forthwith) episode of yours was to give medical knowledge, though you are not medically educated. What might you say about that?

    I've already addressed this. To address it again, I am not the source of that information, medical professionals are. I am passing on what they are stating.

    Most of your issues here seem to be because you demonstrate extreme difficulty in understanding basic concepts, repeatedly.


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    #648
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    I think there's a chance the UK has massively overstated this new strain for political reasons. They said they would be open for Christmas but soon realised they had to lockdown. They needed a scapegoat that was beyond their control. That scapegoat was an apparent highly virulent new strain.


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    #649
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,777 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I think there's a chance the UK has massively overstated this new strain for political reasons. They said they would be open for Christmas but soon realised they had to lockdown. They needed a scapegoat that was beyond their control. That scapegoat was an apparent highly virulent new strain.

    It's been detected by other countries, quite a few by this stage.

    Also UK hospitals are at now at their fullest point (higher than April)


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    #650
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    It's been detected by other countries, quite a few by this stage.

    Also UK hospitals are at now at their fullest point (higher than April)

    I'm not saying the strain isn't real. There has been many different strains detected. I'm saying the timing of the announcement was political.


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    #651
    Trigger
    Registered Users Posts: 17,538 ✭✭✭✭Trigger


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    I'm not saying the strain isn't real. There has been many different strains detected. I'm saying the timing of the announcement was political.

    It is plausible. The figures in the UK exploded somewhat, but what do they have to gain from holding out the announcement?


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    #652
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,777 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I'm not saying the strain isn't real. There has been many different strains detected. I'm saying the timing of the announcement was political.

    It was detected at an earlier stage?


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    #653
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Trigger wrote: »
    It is plausible. The figures in the UK exploded somewhat, but what do they have to gain from holding out the announcement?

    They previously stated that they would be open for Christmas. It suddenly became clear that they had to lockdown. They're numbers could have exploded simply due to Christmas coming up. I think they tied the lockdown to this new strain rather than going back on their own word. I'm certainly no expert but I don't understand how they can know the new strain is more virulent so quickly. I thought that's something you can determine in hindsight with statistics.


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    #654
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,226 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I'm certainly no expert but I don't understand how they can know the new strain is more virulent so quickly. I thought that's something you can determine in hindsight with statistics.
    So because you can't understand it, it must therefore be a conspiracy.


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    #655
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    King Mob wrote: »
    So because you can't understand it, it must therefore be a conspiracy.

    Alright relax dude. Its just something that occurred to me. It's not a hill I'm willing to die on.


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    #656
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,226 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Alright relax dude. Its just something that occurred to me. It's not a hill I'm willing to die on.
    Why would I not be relaxed?
    Just pointing out the central flaw behind your thinking.

    Just because you personally don't understand something doesn't mean it has to be a conspiracy.
    It could be that you just don't personally understand it.


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    #657
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    King Mob wrote: »
    Why would I not be relaxed?
    Just pointing out the central flaw behind your thinking.

    Just because you personally don't understand something doesn't mean it has to be a conspiracy.
    It could be that you just don't personally understand it.

    Then tell me, how can we know so soon that a particular strain is more virulent


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    #658
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,777 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Then tell me, how can we know so soon that a particular strain is more virulent

    "It was first detected in September. In November around a quarter of cases in London were the new variant. This reached nearly two-thirds of cases in mid-December."

    Decent summary of context and details here
    https://www.bbc.com/news/health-55388846


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    #659
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,226 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Then tell me, how can we know so soon that a particular strain is more virulent
    I don't know off hand.
    But Dohnjoe has given you a link that answers your question.

    Please explain how it can be a conspiracy?


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    #660
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    King Mob wrote: »
    I don't know off hand.
    But Dohnjoe has given you a link that answers your question.

    Please explain how it can be a conspiracy?

    I explained my angle twice already


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    #661
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,226 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I explained my angle twice already
    Oh. Is that all you had?
    Then as I said, you don't really have a very good reason to buy into that conspiracy theory.


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