Relaxation of Restrictions, Part V - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

facehugger99

average_runner wrote: »

Zero deaths because our number of cases were low a few weeks ago. Cases going up right now, need to get them down to where they were.

Look at the trends in Europe

Yeah, the death-rates are tiny.

Half a dozen people in hospital and 350,000 people being paid not to work.


And there's still lads like yourself desperately trying to stoke the hysteria.

average_runner

facehugger99 wrote: »

Yeah, the death-rates are tiny.

Half a dozen people in hospital and 350,000 people being paid not to work.


And there's still lads like yourself desperately trying to stoke the hysteria.

And that how it all begins. Cases first and then deaths.
Not stoking hysteria, virus not bothering me.

Let's see where spain be in 10 days.

bettyoleary

facehugger99 wrote: »

Yeah, the death-rates are tiny.

Half a dozen people in hospital and 350,000 people being paid not to work.


And there's still lads like yourself desperately trying to stoke the hysteria.

I hope you stamped your feet whilst you posted your comment. Its an outrage isnt it that its getting in your way? What are you going to do about all this govt money going to lay abouts???? And all the delusional scientists in the world who are living in cloud virus land???? And on top of that half the world has gone hysterical imagining some sort of virus that dosent exist. WOW mate what will you do?

_Kaiser_

statesaver wrote: »

... we are not anymore.

The rest of your post I'd agree with. A spineless, sheepish population and a media who won't question the Government narrative on any issue.

Oh we are very much still a conservative nation - it's why the public sat quietly while Leo and the previous Government abdicated responsibility to Dr Tony until even his own party shamed him into taking a more active role. There's only so much you can deflect by pointing at the Shinners and Lefties (neither of which I'd be!)

It's also why a deeply unpleasant culture has arisen where those who question the status quo as reported on RTE every night are attacked and ridiculed in online pile-on's and "dirty looks" in supermarkets if they're not "masked up" like the news told them to.

A few easy-win social referenda in the previous term (also to distract from the abdication of responsibilities in other areas) hasn't changed that. As for the media.. sure many of them are positioning for jobs as advisors/staffers to the Government as we have seen in the last few weeks with some of the moves.

We like to think we've come so far, but CV-19 has brought many of the same attitudes of the bad old days right out of the woodwork.

FintanMcluskey

bettyoleary wrote: »

And all the delusional scientists in the world who are living in cloud virus land????

We are all in agreement here Betty, they are enjoying the new found stardom they have been given.

statesaver

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Oh we are very much still a conservative nation - it's why the public sat quietly while Leo and the previous Government abdicated responsibility to Dr Tony until even his own party shamed him into taking a more active role. There's only so much you can deflect by pointing at the Shinners and Lefties (neither of which I'd be!

We like to think we've come so far, but CV-19 has brought many of the same attitudes of the bad old days right out of the woodwork.

... neither I am.

What attitudes ?

What conservative attitudes ?

Idbatterim

Oh we are VERY comservative! Can any of you foresee a debate in the year 2020 on euthanasia here for example. We allow people live appalling lives, that we would put animals out of their misery for.. we are still so backwards , the likes of that subject even being broached, is a comedy notion!

If we were a naturally middle of the road country here , id have said fair play for the initially conservative approach.but the place is so beset by comservatism and fear , it was never going to pan out any other way.

Now that there are no deaths most days , whip up a frenzy about an obvious as fcuk increase number of infected. If cases dropped to zero, guaranteed theyd find a way to try keep the hysteria up! "Next pandemic could be hours away eveals """"""""""""expert"""""""""

polesheep

average_runner wrote: »

Pubs should only open once the under 45's get their act together with these increases in positive tests

The under 45s have got their act together. They are showing us the way in living with Covid.

polesheep

average_runner wrote: »

Zero deaths because our number of cases were low a few weeks ago. Cases going up right now, need to get them down to where they were.

Look at the trends in Europe

The demographics have changed. The nursing homes are safe now.

statesaver

Idbatterim wrote: »

Oh we are VERY comservative! Can any of you foresee a debate in the year 2020 on euthanasia here for example. We allow people live appalling lives, that we would put animals out of their misery for.. we are still so backwards , the likes of that subject even being broached, is a comedy notion!

If we were a naturally middle of the road country here , id have said fair play for the initially conservative approach.but the place is so beset by comservatism and fear , it was never going to pan out any other way.

Now that there are no deaths most days , whip up a frenzy about an obvious as fcuk increase number of infected. If cases dropped to zero, guaranteed theyd find a way to try keep the hysteria up! "Next pandemic could be hours away eveals """"""""""""expert"""""""""

What ?

_Kaiser_

statesaver wrote: »

... neither I am.

What attitudes ?

What conservative attitudes ?

I already gave the example of how anyone not "on message" with the CV-19 pronouncements in the news is attacked and ridiculed.

It's like the days when whatever you did, you didn't dare question the Church no matter how out of step with reality it was, or how the Irish psyche seems to thrive on conformity and lash out against anything or anyone different - unless of course, in our modern connected world, that lashing out is itself an attitude in conformity

Take for example the SSM referendum. A good thing for sure, but it became more a crusade than a campaign as people fell over themselves to show how supportive they were .. even Leo got in on the act, cyncically "coming out" on national radio during the height of it to boost his profile and positioning for the leadership contest in FG afterwards - despite being against the ideas only a few years before:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykQAW9Y7Ros

Funny that, eh? That was 2009. Not exactly a lifetime ago.

Not much has changed either.

polesheep

average_runner wrote: »

And that how it all begins. Cases first and then deaths.
Not stoking hysteria, virus not bothering me.

Let's see where spain be in 10 days.

Nope, it's cases, hospitalisation then deaths. How are the hospitalisation numbers?

Idbatterim

Its like talking to a brick wall. The people who dont know how conservative this country are, have either never left it or dont watch any foreign news and affairs. They rely on rte for it... lol !

Idbatterim

Why dont rte run a 24 hour news channel on nothing but deaths? And tur cause if death. Could get them out of the financial blackhole they are in. A lot of read deatgs thus last week , so currentky wau higher chance if you dyimg in a road death!!! I hooe youre all locked away and not driving or walkimg anywhere lads ?

Just become self sufficient or order online! We have to lower the deaths!

statesaver

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

I already gave the example of how anyone not "on message" with the CV-19 pronouncements in the news is attacked and ridiculed.

It's like the days when whatever you did, you didn't dare question the Church no matter how out of step with reality it was, or how the Irish psyche seems to thrive on conformity and lash out against anything or anyone different - unless of course, in our modern connected world, that lashing out is itself an attitude in conformity

Take for example the SSM referendum. A good thing for sure, but it became more a crusade than a campaign as people fell over themselves to show how supportive they were .. even Leo got in on the act, cyncically "coming out" on national radio during the height of it to boost his profile and positioning for the leadership contest in FG afterwards - despite being against the ideas only a few years before:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykQAW9Y7Ros

Funny that, eh? That was 2009. Not exactly a lifetime ago.

Not much has changed either.

FFS, I'm on about now not 2009. fuk sake.
But wasn't Leo and Simon against SSM and Abortion before they got elected TD's and then into Government ?

Idbatterim

That snake varadkar , would support genocide if it were found to be a bigger vote winner, total creep !

bettyoleary

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

We are all in agreement here Betty, they are enjoying the new found stardom they have been given.

And I bet they are on the covid payment too. What is goi:Dng wrong in the world????

statesaver

Idbatterim wrote: »

That snake varadkar , would support genocide if it were found to be a bigger vote winner, total creep !

Well, he is the leader of the Blue Shirts. :eek:

_Kaiser_

statesaver wrote: »

FFS, I'm on about now not 2009. fuk sake.
But wasn't Leo and Simon against SSM and Abortion before they got elected TD's and then into Government ?

My point here is that you seem to think that in those 10 years things have fundamentally changed in the outlook of many.

I'm telling you it's not the case. "We" still crave validation and approval from our peers and "betters", "we" still deeply distrust anything not in-line with the accepted norm, and "we" will always revert to type when pushed.

I say "we" because there are still those who will question and challenge these things - even more vital as Ireland and other places import America's identity politics and social problems wholesale - and it's for that reason that we are seeing posts in this very thread that lash out against anyone who isn't wholly accepting (and vocally advocating for) the accepted position on CV-19 as shown on RTE every night.

You may think that these things are unrelated, but they are very much connected.

bettyoleary

bettyoleary wrote: »

And I bet they are on the covid payment too. What is goi:Dng wrong in the world????

I think Ryanair are doing cheap flights to Berlin anyway. You can get yourself over to the protests cheaply if your on covid payment. Dont bother about the quarantine, its not mandatory when you get back.

pm1977x

It's like a meeting of Gemma O'Doherty followers in here tonight, truly fascinating ramblings. Next we'll be hearing how chemtrails are forcing us to tune into RTE.

prunudo

pm1977x wrote: »

It's like a meeting of Gemma O'Doherty followers in here tonight, truly fascinating ramblings. Next we'll be hearing how chemtrails are forcing us to tune into RTE.

I think this post proves kaisers view point pretty well.

Idbatterim

Just wait for the budget! The lockdown lover crew, will then be bleeting on about the other " most vulneable" the montrose millionaires, wont see or care for the irony either. Right now they want it all shut down , when the repercussions clear in the budget, those same rats will be berating the government...

statesaver

Nothing you have posted has anything to do with conservatism. Of which I am not.

_Kaiser_

pm1977x wrote: »

It's like a meeting of Gemma O'Doherty followers in here tonight, truly fascinating ramblings. Next we'll be hearing how chemtrails are forcing us to tune into RTE.

And with that post you prove my point nicely.

Here's something that you may find upsetting. I'd never heard of Gemma until posts from people like yourself appeared on this site. I'm not a Shinner or lefty either (shocking I know!), but I'm also not so blinded by validation-seeking that I can't recognise spin and deflection when I see it - whether it be by RTE (who funnily enough there are lots of threads around how they're more like a propaganda outlet at times than journalistic integrity - guess that's another thing that's been forgotten in the CV-19 hysteria), Government, or posters online.

All posts like yours do is weaken your own argument. Resorting to childish name-calling, whataboutery, deflection and so on in place of a reasoned counterargument may be commonplace these days online, but I'm quite capable of recognising that too!

Idbatterim

We accept risk of death for working many jobs, accidents, medical grounds. I really think the covid thing is pushed by the media so much , because its a potential once in a lifetime mass hystetia event , that they can milk for months , potentially years on end. Its gods gift as far as they are concerned...

_Kaiser_

statesaver wrote: »

Nothing you have posted has anything to do with conservatism. Of which I am not.

I don't recall accusing YOU of being conservative - good for you if you're not.

However, a few populist and easy-win campaigns that passed in the last few years doesn't change the points I outlined - in fact, as I said it's almost by accident that these badly needed reforms passed because they became such a crusade that the idea of standing against them was ridiculed loudly by those keen to show their support.

So yea, it's good that we now have things like SSM - absolutely! - but I think you're confusing conformity and populism with honest support and genuine belief in the cause.

In the same way (to bring this back on topic ) as most people only abided by the travel restrictions while AGS were manning checkpoints and the threat of fines and prosecution... once AGS disappeared, movement opened up.

The same has been admitted to around masks (on this or the dedicated thread) - people are complying because it's now the expected position and because of the uncertainty around enforcement.. but you can bet that if it turns out that it's not enforceable, masks will go in the bin overnight in many households!

s1ippy

Idbatterim wrote: »

What about working parents ? They need to get back to school end of.... what are they thinking? Keep them out of school for years potentially? Its so typically irish, think there will be some simple pain free solution , there isnt.

What are we going to do ? Keep all pubs closed and schools shut to avoid one or two deaths a day ? Wouldnt surprise me here , but its madness ...

700 deaths a year (by your estimation) to keep schools open. Although it will definitely be many more as when the situation gets out of control, hospitals become overwhelmed. What if one of them was someone you knew. What if it was your parents or your sibling. Would you still be cool with opening the schools? If so, you might be Jeremy Bentham, founder of utilitarianism.

Glad you're willing to make the decision and flip the switch on that issue, personally I couldn't deal with all those deaths on my conscience.

Idbatterim

I relation to the post above, all the other countries with kids back to school , backwards ones like the nordics, germany , switzerland ... i suppose they dont have a clue or compassion ?

_Kaiser_

s1ippy wrote: »

700 deaths a year (by your estimation) to keep schools open. Although it will definitely be many more as when the situation gets out of control, hospitals become overwhelmed. What if one of them was someone you knew. What if it was your parents or your sibling. Would you still be cool with opening the schools? If so, you might be Jeremy Bentham, founder of utilitarianism.

Glad you're willing to make the decision and flip the switch on that issue, personally I couldn't deal with all those deaths on my conscience.

What if, what if, what if...

Don't get me wrong. I can tell you're sincere and well-intentioned, and to answer your question - no-one wants to see people die. No one wants to see loved ones suffer. Of course they don't!

But death is a part of living too and happens every day as I've said earlier. To address that (well outside of natural causes) we mitigate the risks of living by taking precautions - but those precautions must be appropriate and proportional to the level of risk involved. It's why we don't ban or heavily restrict driving even though many die or suffer life-changing injuries as a result of it.

So too, must we consider the wider picture and needs of society and the country in our responses to CV-19. We have become conditioned to having the medical experts tell us what that is (in a frankly shocking dereliction of duty by our Government), but those experts are but ONE voice - albeit an important one yes - of those that must be considered.

So far, we've almost entirely failed to do that - save when the previous Government had their hand forced in proceeding with the reopening through dissent in their own ranks - and the damage to jobs, business, other medical needs, education, and the economic outlook has been massive.