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Blatant Cheating

  • 23-07-2020 8:43pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 2,551 ✭✭✭ dan_ep82


    Been on the forum a few years now and it always seems to come up regularly.

    The main one seems to be handicap manipulation. Even here, where I'd judge we have more golfers who are in it for the love of the game and not the winners circle accusations are thrown around a bit.

    Then you have the winks and nods about certain clubs about inter club comps. ( I don't follow interclub so couldn't comment on this)

    What I'd like to know is have you ever caught someone blatantly cheating, where if you had a go pro on your head it's a clear cut case?

    I'm playing 5 or 6 years and I've only ever suspected one guy of breaking the rules on purpose to better his ( admittedly atrocious ) score on the day.


    With the way some posters go on you would expect alot of instances but I don't think we will get them.

    Have you seen someone cheating to better their score? 168 votes

    Yes.
    70% 118 votes
    No.
    24% 41 votes
    I had suspicions but nothing concrete.
    5% 9 votes


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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,998 ✭✭✭ finglashoop


    dan_ep82 wrote: »
    Been on the forum a few years now and it always seems to come up regularly.

    The main one seems to be handicap manipulation. Even here, where I'd judge we have more golfers who are in it for the love of the game and not the winners circle accusations are thrown around a bit.

    Then you have the winks and nods about certain clubs about inter club comps. ( I don't follow interclub so couldn't comment on this)

    What I'd like to know is have you ever caught someone blatantly cheating, where if you had a go pro on your head it's a clear cut case?

    I'm playing 5 or 6 years and I've only ever suspected one guy of breaking the rules on purpose to better his ( admittedly atrocious ) score on the day.


    With the way some posters go on you would expect alot of instances but I don't think we will get them.

    Only playing comps about a year so it would be a small sample size really and nothing ive noticed. Have heard about fellas shooting massive scores and not handing in cards

    I am trying to get as low as i can. If i win/place or get a few quid out of the twos along the way its a bonus.

    To be perfectly honest id call them out on it. But then is it a case of your word against theres when it comes to handing in scores when you get to the clubhouse?

    Has anyone been in this situation? What happens there? I assume its not a good spot for the person callling them out.

    Even in a casual game i wouldnt do something to improve lie etc. as i feel i would only be fooling myself but in a comp if a fella is not going to admit what hes done if you call him out on the spot what can you actually do?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 296 ✭✭ Golf is my Game


    Weve all seen it, and weve all let it go. Its not your movie style cheating like dropping a spare ball down the trouser leg or whatever. But it happens like this : theres a slightly odd situation where you should check the rules, and no one nose the answer off the top of their head. So that lad takes the option that suits his score best. Everyone knows thats the wrong one, but isnt sure of the right procedure. 'Mick' says, because they want to support the guy - ' yes thats it'. So he goes ahead and plays. He knows he probably wrong but because no one call tell him the right way he plays on and doesnt want to check the rules because he knows it will work out bad for him. But its cheating.
    You sometimes see it get even worse, in the clubhouse chatting about it, someone gives the right answer, and the guy knows he should disqualify himself, but will he heck. If someone says why not, he says 'well Mick said I were OK' so thats OK then. Which he knows doesnt count for diddly but still says it like because one player said do it then he should be penalised for taking advantage of not playing the right penalty or whatever.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,832 ✭✭✭ DuckSlice


    Seen plenty,

    Lads pulling a few long bits of grass from behind their ball,

    Playing up the ninth before teeing it up in the comp (not matchplay)

    Marking their ball and replacing the ball 2 inches ahead of the marker

    Not dropping in the right places, this is mostly down to them not knowing the rule.

    Don’t call them out on it though but probably should. It just makes for an awkward remainder of the round of calling them out on it.

    The practicing before the round really gets on my tits though!


  • Registered Users Posts: 926 ✭✭✭ billy3sheets


    In 20+ years and maybe a thousand rounds, I can't say I've ever definitely seen cheating deliberately.
    Many golfers don't know the rules precisely and they take a liberal approach to taking relief but not deliberately cheating.
    I know of 1 player who suffered from numerixa and had difficulty totting up the number of shots taken on any given hole. Same player was also brought to my attention for pitching their marker a couple of feet ahead of the ball when marking a ball on the green.
    I've challenged a few on their interpretation of the rules but no one of cheating.
    Personally I couldn't sleep if I thought I had taken any kind of unwarranted benefit in a round. Twice I've handed back prizes when I realised a mistake afterwards.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,716 ✭✭✭ CalamariFritti


    Once. Was in an unusual spot when I was still new to it (when you tend to be in unusual spots) and saw a guy kicking his ball out from the cabbage half under a tree into the open. He came up the other hole and never expected anyone to be where I was. Sunday comp too. Just grins at me and says nothing and I say nothing. I was new to it what was I going to do?

    Its a good few years ago and I play elsewhere now but I remembered it instantly when I saw the thread title.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 882 ✭✭✭ BraveDonut


    Recently seeing a lot of players finding their ball waaaayyyy after the 3 minutes and just carrying on.

    Told a guy he couldn't play the ball outside of his 3 minutes and he was not happy


  • Registered Users Posts: 25,518 ✭✭✭✭ GreeBo


    BraveDonut wrote: »
    Recently seeing a lot of players finding their ball waaaayyyy after the 3 minutes and just carrying on.

    Told a guy he couldn't play the ball outside of his 3 minutes and he was not happy

    I have a 3 minute timer ready to go on my watch...3 mins is not very long, especially when people were taking 8+ for their 5 min search!


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,134 ✭✭✭ blue note


    I'm not sure what way to vote here. As a junior, in the junior competitions (juniors only, junior handicaps) I saw it all the time. The magic pencil was a pandemic. You'd ask a guy his score and you'd have to count back his shots with him to get to the actual one. If you saw a particular three ball head out together you'd know that they could be taking 15 shots off their overall scores, and that's no exaggeration. I still remember one particular guy coming in with 54 points, playing off 24. I spoke to one of his playing partners after and he told me that he actually did shoot fairly close to that, he only actually gave himself an extra few points. As if that was acceptable!

    But in senior competitions, I haven't ever noticed that kind of cheating. People not knowing the rules and taking bad drops, relief when they're not entitled to it certainly happens, I assume I've done it. If I know the rule I'll tell them. But the worst was a guy I play with regularly who has been playing a long time, but just got his first handicap at the start of 2019. He's played a decent bit of society golf, I've only ever once played in a comp with him. I was in a casual round with him and I landed in a divot. I just said to him I'm not in the mood to play out of that and moved it. He said sure you get relief from that anyway. He genuinely thought that you get relief from being in a divot! He almost certainly (innocently) has taken a drop from being in a divot in a comp and society golf.

    I also reckon people cheat but convince themselves they don't. The likes of a guy flattening his lie with a three wood before hitting it, telling himself he's just addressing the ball. Or convince themselves that the point of entry into a hazard was more convenient than it actually was. I've seen this, but it's a hard one to call someone up on.

    And then finally there's the people who unashamedly cheat. Often when you get to your ball you're out of sight. If you want to improve your lie or even your line no-one can really stop you. Or if you find a ball and play it as your own. As a grown up I've never noticed this type of cheating.


  • Registered Users Posts: 746 ✭✭✭ Colonel_McCoy


    Seen some a person submit three cards for h/c.

    First comp shaves 20 shots of their best card for h/c.

    Another person completed a round with a partner in under 2.5 hours. ( calculated from sign in and sign out in comp).


    The list is endless.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,832 ✭✭✭ DuckSlice


    GreeBo wrote: »
    I have a 3 minute timer ready to go on my watch...3 mins is not very long, especially when people were taking 8+ for their 5 min search!

    Would you be doing this to guys/ladies you know or just your normal 4 ball?

    I've only ever been once put on the timer and that was after I called a lad out for playing a provisional at a water hazard and that he now had to play his provisional. we all thought the ball was in the hazard so I didn't say anything on the tee.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 25,518 ✭✭✭✭ GreeBo


    etxp wrote: »
    Would you be doing this to guys/ladies you know or just your normal 4 ball?

    I've only ever been once put on the timer and that was after I called a lad out for playing a provisional at a water hazard and that he now had to play his provisional. we all thought the ball was in the hazard so I didn't say anything on the tee.

    I wouldnt be announcing that I'm starting a clock, but I would use it for myself but also to keep an eye on the time. often someone will say "how long am I looking?" and no one has a clue.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,923 ✭✭✭✭ Joe_ Public


    Played with a society crowd a few years ago and cheating was rife, from guys deliberately undercounting shots to leather wedges to finding wrong ball and playing it regardless. The list is endless. I always let it go, attitude was if guys were that desperate to win a few pro vs then off with them.

    Dont bother much with competitions because just not that serious about it and want to keep the game fun.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,134 ✭✭✭ blue note


    GreeBo wrote: »
    I wouldnt be announcing that I'm starting a clock, but I would use it for myself but also to keep an eye on the time. often someone will say "how long am I looking?" and no one has a clue.

    I'd find it really useful for someone to time it for a group. You're definitely right that the three minutes is often 5 or more. I don't think this is deliberate cheating, but certainly something people should be more careful about.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,322 ✭✭✭ Wombatman


    Told an auld lad, that I didn't play with regularly, his two faced jigger\chipper was non-conforming and against the rules. He'd been using it for years in and out of competition. He was not a happy bunny. His regular group of auld lad mates gave him some stick about it. It's still in the bag.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,765 ✭✭✭ big_drive


    Seen some a person submit three cards for h/c.

    First comp shaves 20 shots of their best card for h/c.

    Another person completed a round with a partner in under 2.5 hours. ( calculated from sign in and sign out in comp).


    The list is endless.

    What’s wrong with completing the round in under 2.5 hours?


  • Registered Users Posts: 25,518 ✭✭✭✭ GreeBo


    blue note wrote: »
    I'd find it really useful for someone to time it for a group. You're definitely right that the three minutes is often 5 or more. I don't think this is deliberate cheating, but certainly something people should be more careful about.

    I'll certainly be using it during inter club!


  • Registered Users Posts: 209 ✭✭ newindublin


    I play a bit in society and also in club golf, the standard is different

    Society:
    - Societies often have different rules, and though I read them, most do not. Even if I tell them the society rule on a drop, they just kind of bobble the head and go ahead and do what they want. For example, my "casual" society has a long standing rule that you can drop a ball in the fairway for a 2 stroke penalty for a lost ball. Most seem to think its OK to drop a ball wherever they think it was lost for a one stroke penalty.
    - I have played in 2 societies and they have very different standards for following the rules. One really is more about getting out, where the other is more serious about fair play in my experience (go boards society!).

    Club:
    - I have counted strokes on a player i am not carding and seen a stroke shaved more than once. But never with a player who was anywhere near a good score, so I usually write it off as saving some face for someone struggling to break 20 pts on the day.


  • Registered Users Posts: 352 ✭✭ GolfNut33


    Probably the biggest rule break of them all is leaving your ball near the hole to help your fellow competitors if they're off the green.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,716 ✭✭✭ CalamariFritti


    Not that I'd actually do that, but is that really a rule break?


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,507 ✭✭✭✭ Mushy


    Not that I'd actually do that, but is that really a rule break?

    It is in some manner, like if it was discussed and said leave it there just in case it can stop the ball.

    Dont think it's a rule break if player chips on before you've had chance to mark it.

    May need further clarification though


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  • Registered Users Posts: 352 ✭✭ GolfNut33


    Not that I'd actually do that, but is that really a rule break?

    Oh yes. Straight DQ.


  • Registered Users Posts: 352 ✭✭ GolfNut33


    Mushy wrote: »
    It is in some manner, like if it was discussed and said leave it there just in case it can stop the ball.

    Dont think it's a rule break if player chips on before you've had chance to mark it.

    May need further clarification though

    Not against the rules to leave it there but if you leave it there with the intention of helping someone else then it is.


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,507 ✭✭✭✭ Mushy


    GolfNut33 wrote: »
    Not against the rules to leave it there but if you leave it there with the intention of helping someone else then it is.

    Essentially that is what I mean


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,911 ✭✭✭ begbysback


    Cmon lads we've all done it, ball lands in the rough a foot or 2 off the fairway, nobody around, accidentally gets kicked onto the fairway ;)


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,923 ✭✭✭✭ Joe_ Public


    GolfNut33 wrote: »
    Not against the rules to leave it there but if you leave it there with the intention of helping someone else then it is.

    Technical term is "backstopping" i think. Its very controversial but how do you police it? I vaguely recall an incident on the womens tour where it happened and they were high fiving each other like it was a well executed plan but no penalties were issue iirc.


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,507 ✭✭✭✭ Mushy


    begbysback wrote: »
    Cmon lads we've all done it, ball lands in the rough a foot or 2 off the fairway, nobody around, accidentally gets kicked onto the fairway ;)

    Nope cant say I have


  • Registered Users Posts: 254 ✭✭ tommyombomb


    One thing that annoys me is thw handicap fixing, firstly for the obvious for people who do it.

    Then other reason it annoys me is due to inconsistent play. Finally got a handicap after years of playing but not a member anywhere, was given a 19 handicap which is fair for my level currently except i can be very hot and cold. Hadnt played a tournament yet, only submitted cards recently to get handicap. Presidents cup on this weekend but didnt register to play incase i played very hot and reputation would be ruined as a bandit. Also think winning a tournament off a 19 isnt right for the presidents cup.


  • Registered Users Posts: 644 ✭✭✭ hurikane


    Chap in my club, seems to find an animal scraping anytime his swing is impeded by a tree. Played with him a few of times and each time he has taken relief that gets him away from the tree. First time I didn’t question it, second time I went over and had a look. There was a tiny mark that was possibly a very old and very small scraping which he had to stretch to stand in and address his ball. Third time he claimed an indentation caused by tree roots was another scraping, he took relief again, told him to get fcuked, I wasn’t signing his card. He left the club after this and unfortunately I see he has rejoined under one of the new deals to attract members.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,817 ✭✭✭ Season 2


    begbysback wrote: »
    Cmon lads we've all done it, ball lands in the rough a foot or 2 off the fairway, nobody around, accidentally gets kicked onto the fairway ;)

    The old foot wedge, you may think people have not seen you do it but they will have.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,604 ✭✭✭ BigChap1759


    Used to play in my work’s society and there was a very senior guy, senior finance director in large tech company, and he was chronic, you’d have seen him hitting at least 8 shots and then he’d tell you he got a 5 on the hole - pretty awkward then talking through each shot - did it 3 times in one round with me so not an accident, bonkers stuff.


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