Dairy Chitchat 4, an udder new thread.

Castlekeeper

There was a big chat about water heaters a while back and the conclusion was, for normal usage, that electric was cheapest to install and, on night rate, cheapest to run. Not to mind being free with solar.

There probably are specific instances where gas or oil are more suitable.

straight

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123364630#Comment_123364630

Alot of dealers and beef farmers are buying heifers to fatten now too. They're cheaper than bull/bullocks in alot of cases.

Castlekeeper

Just on the future proofing with regard to regulations, the much maligned Dept are covering a lot of people's rears on space for nature and biodiversity requirements by sneaking in the blanket 6m hedgerow width. I don't see that lasting and it's only a matter of timecome back to each individual farm.

orm0nd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123364878#Comment_123364878

Saw a factory agent looking through cows at a dairy sale recently.

wrangler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123364860#Comment_123364860

We're using 30 units/day and our new solar panels are producing well over that at the moment. we have a battery as well that's topped up during the day from the panels, we have an electric aga thats 3kw and one full battery won't run it for the night so we're goin to get another battery, they've dropped in price even in the month since we got our panels.

We only have them a month or 2 so a bit early to judge them but pleased enough at the moment

GC4

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123364860#Comment_123364860

2500+, you must be doing more than just feeding calves and washing milk tank, I gave 450 for heater and a bottle of gas roughly 6 to 8 weeks.

Siamsa Sessions

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123365038#Comment_123365038

I priced the gas heater thru Flogas. I didn't know there were other options to be honest.

So, did you just buy the gas heater then and get someone to hook it up to a water tank?

I'm using the water heater for washing the milking machine and milk tank, and a little for calves.

GC4

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123365174#Comment_123365174

The man that services the milk tank and cooler piped it up for me using the electric heater as a reservoir for hot water to wash the tank.

jaymla627

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123364889#Comment_123364889

Next cap looks like a glorified acres scheme so any commercial farm, it won't be worth their while jumping through the hoops to draw it down, have a feeling their going to push through their new tb rules fairly shortly and torpedo a good % of the viability of dairy units, they've some seriously dangerous c**ts at the top designing policy to put farmers out of business

ginger22

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123365246#Comment_123365246

Anything in my view that restricts output is good news for farming. We have spent years producing more and more for less and less. Some milk processing plants may have to close. So what. Forget about comodity markets. Turn the reduced amount of milk into high value products. Better price for each liter of milk. Look what happened to beef prices when there is a scarcity.

atlantic mist

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123365174#Comment_123365174

id imagine half your elec cost is down to builders/elec/parlor/tank installers all using your electricity socket rather than their generator……hidden start up costs

whelan2

HHow Long does it take the milk to cool down in the bulk tank @Siamsa Sessions

Siamsa Sessions

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123365505#Comment_123365505

Not 100% sure but it was always cooled when I went to check the tank and the water heater at 8-ish in the evening. Milking would be finished around 6 so less than 2 hours. That’s for the first milk into it after a collection. Probably less time when there’s cool milk in it.

Siamsa Sessions

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123365193#Comment_123365193

Thanks again.

Do you mind me asking the name or brand of the gas heater?

green daries

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123364860#Comment_123364860

Its all a learning curve and I do think your over the biggest hump re work hassle and torture when you settle down to a routine and you get time to relax and think when in the parlour you'll be grand

GC4

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123365581#Comment_123365581

Breerainz is stamped on it. It's 18 litres. Got it on done deal. Only have it about 8 months, quality has yet to be proven.

cute geoge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123366018#Comment_123366018

surely waste of time for a milking parlour ,what do you use it for ,i am presuming feeding calves

GC4

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123366136#Comment_123366136

Feeding calves and washing milk tank, milking machine hotwash every 2nd evening. Has a 100 litre insulated tank piped off it.

Birdnuts

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123365321#Comment_123365321

Most sensible post I've seen here on that matter for quiet a while

stanflt

Went looking at a zerograzer today

dmakc

What I don't get about that auto zerograzer is it can only stay on the grazing block (as in off public roads), but if you have said grazing block you may aswell let the cows do the work grazing it?

Castlekeeper

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123365521#Comment_123365521

I would have thought milk should be cooled within 20 minutes of milking?

Have you a plate cooler?

GC4

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123367046#Comment_123367046

I think bord bia states below 4 degrees within half hour or milking or something like that.

older by the day

https://www.rte.ie/brainstorm/2025/0417/1507965-ireland-agriculture-nitrate-pollution-clean-water-eu-directive-enforcement/

That's a one sided article.

Another reason I'm happy I haven't paid my TV licence in ten years

Say my name

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123367186#Comment_123367186

Padraig Walshe when he was alive and head of the IFA called on his academic background in agricultural science in differentiating the grassland difference for nitrates and tillage that is more widely practiced in european and american systems. He was lauded for it. Today there's a push to suppress and change data and greenwash it to show tillage as being whiter than white. For the only reason as to demonise livestock and the grassland systems of ireland. How a researcher gets maximum nitrates from soil is to dry out that soil sample and gas off as much solid carbon to the atmosphere and sieve that soil and then add water and then drain that water and sample the water. The nitrates in soil being all the carbon based lifeforms, that glomalin that holds soil together, the plant matter and roots, any additions in fertiliser and obviously manure. But the way the researchers get their soil nitrate samples by water is exactly tillage and why nitrates in tillage parts and warmer parts of the world that get drought are higher than permanent pasture areas that don't suffer drought.

The potato capital of the world Prince Edward Island, Canada where ground water is now 50mg/litre nitrate are having serious problems. Tillage is not natural. Farming is not natural. But if there's a way of not touching soil that could be done and still farm then you are away in some canter on nitrates. But the world we have now especially the last 10 years with an anti livestock agenda. Then you betcha they'll be a shut up told if soil tillage is mentioned as a major factor in nitrate in water. Anti science but it's blinded to demonise livestock. Pure and simple.

http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10040-008-0390-2

Say my name

Artificial Intelligence came back with this:

🌱 What is Glomalin?

Glomalin is a sticky, glue-like substance excreted by the hyphae of AMF. It helps bind soil particles into stable aggregates, forming what’s known as soil macro-aggregates.

🧪 Glomalin’s Role in Nitrate Retention

1. Improved Soil Structure = Reduced Leaching
   • Glomalin increases soil aggregation, which enhances soil porosity and water retention.
   • Well-aggregated soils reduce nitrate leaching by slowing water movement and increasing the soil's ability to hold water and nutrients.
2. Enhanced Organic Matter Stabilization
   • Glomalin contributes to soil organic carbon pools, which bind nutrients, including nitrogen compounds.
   • Stabilized organic matter can act as a slow-release source of nitrogen, reducing the risk of rapid nitrate loss.
3. Support for Microbial Communities
   • Healthy mycorrhizal networks promote nitrogen cycling via interactions with soil bacteria and fungi.
   • This helps in retaining nitrogen in organic or ammonium forms that are less prone to leaching than nitrate.

🔬 Summary

While glomalin doesn't chemically bind nitrate directly, it helps retain nitrate in the soil by:

• Enhancing soil aggregation (physical barrier to leaching)
• Supporting microbial immobilization of nitrogen
• Promoting organic matter stabilization, which binds and stores nitrogen

If you're looking into nitrate management strategies, promoting AMF colonization and glomalin production (e.g., reduced tillage, diverse cover cropping) can be part of a regenerative approach to improving nitrogen use efficiency. Want help finding crops or techniques that boost AMF?

The A.I got going then:

Boosting arbuscular mycorrhizal fungi (AMF) in soil is a great move for improving soil health, nutrient uptake (especially phosphorus and nitrogen), and resilience to stress. Here are the most effective techniques for encouraging AMF populations:

🌾 1. Minimize Tillage

• Why: Tillage physically disrupts the fungal hyphae networks in the soil.
• How: Use no-till or reduced-till systems to allow fungal networks to grow and persist.
• ✅ Bonus: Better soil structure and carbon retention.

🌱 2. Grow Mycorrhiza-Friendly Crops

• Why: Not all plants support AMF. Non-hosts like canola and sugar beet don't form symbiotic relationships.
• Best hosts:
  • Grasses (e.g., maize, wheat, rye)
  • Legumes (e.g., clover, beans, alfalfa)
  • Cover crops like vetch, peas, and sorghum-sudangrass
• ✅ Diverse rotations help maintain AMF diversity.

🌿 3. Use Diverse Cover Crops

• Why: AMF thrive in the presence of continuous living roots.
• Best practice: Mix different functional plant types (legumes + grasses + brassicas) to keep AMF communities active and healthy.

💩 4. Limit High-Dose Synthetic Fertilizers, Especially Phosphorus

• Why: High available P suppresses the plant’s need to form mycorrhizal relationships.
• Tip: Use slow-release or organic fertilizers like compost, or apply nutrients in a way that doesn’t oversaturate the root zone.

🧬 5. Inoculate with Commercial AMF

• Why: Especially helpful in degraded or sterilized soils where native AMF are scarce.
• Caution: These work best if soil conditions also support long-term colonization (i.e., paired with good practices above).

🐛 6. Reduce Fungicide Use

• Why: Broad-spectrum fungicides can kill beneficial fungi along with pathogens.
• Tip: Choose targeted or biological controls when possible.

🧪 7. Add Organic Matter

• Compost, mulch, or green manures improve soil habitat, feeding microbial life including AMF.

🌎 Bonus: Perennials & Polycultures

• Longer-lived root systems (e.g., in perennial pastures or agroforestry systems) provide ongoing root-fungus interaction, which helps AMF networks flourish over time.

Want to tailor this for your land or crop type? Let me know your region, soil type, or goals (e.g., nitrogen retention, drought resistance), and I can suggest an AMF-friendly plan.

One more for the craic. I asked about soil carbon. :

Increasing soil carbon percentage is a key goal for improving soil fertility, structure, water retention, and resilience—plus it’s a win for climate mitigation. The good news? There are a bunch of proven, practical strategies to do this, depending on your land, climate, and farming system.

🌍 Big Picture: What Adds Carbon to Soil?

Soil carbon mostly comes from plant roots, residues, and organic inputs—and stays in the soil when microbial activity stabilizes it into humus or aggregates.

🔟 Top Techniques to Boost Soil Carbon %

1. Cover Cropping

• Why: Continuous living roots = continuous carbon inputs.
• What: Use fast-growing, high-biomass species (e.g., rye, clover, vetch, radish).
• Bonus: Roots stimulate microbial activity, which turns carbon into stable forms.

2. Add Organic Amendments

• Compost: Well-decomposed and microbially active = great for humus.
• Manure: Adds organic matter, but make sure it’s well-composted to avoid leaching.
• Biochar: Very stable, long-term carbon storage. Best when mixed with compost.

3. Reduce or Eliminate Tillage

• Why: Tillage breaks down aggregates and accelerates carbon loss via oxidation.
• Switch to: No-till, strip-till, or shallow tillage systems.

4. Use Perennial Plants or Deep-Rooted Crops

• Why: Deeper and longer-living roots deposit more carbon underground.
• Examples: Alfalfa, perennial ryegrass, silvopasture systems, agroforestry.

5. Rotate Crops for Diversity

• Diverse root systems = diverse carbon inputs = more microbial pathways to stabilize it.
• Include legumes to fix nitrogen and support biomass.

6. Integrate Livestock Grazing (Well-Managed)

• Managed grazing can stimulate plant growth and carbon sequestration in pastures.
• Rotational or adaptive grazing keeps the system dynamic and carbon-positive.

7. Mulching & Crop Residue Retention

• Keep residues on the surface to feed microbes and protect the soil.
• Avoid burning or removing crop residues if possible.

8. Agroforestry / Tree Planting

• Trees = constant root carbon, leaf litter, shade to reduce evaporation.
• Consider shelterbelts, alley cropping, or silvopasture.

9. Maintain Soil Cover

• Bare soil = carbon loss.
• Always aim for living roots or at least mulch to prevent erosion and microbial burnout.

10. Monitor and Adapt

• Soil testing (especially for organic matter) helps track progress.
• Try visual assessments too—darkening color, crumb structure, increased worm activity are great signs.

🚨 What to Avoid:

• Overusing synthetic N fertilizer – can reduce microbial carbon use efficiency.
• Frequent deep tillage
• Overgrazing or bare fallows
• Excessive pesticide use – harms soil biology that helps store carbon.

Want a custom carbon-building strategy for your farm or land? Just let me know your soil type, climate, or crop system—happy to help you build a plan that fits.

The end..

Gawddawggonnit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123365321#Comment_123365321

Summary execution would have been the order of the day for posting such nonsense just a decade ago!
Well said.

Commodifying any product only goes one way.

farmertipp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123367792#Comment_123367792

you're spot on. although I doubt they intended it

Siamsa Sessions

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123367046#Comment_123367046

It might well be cooled that fast but I don't know. The only thing I'm sure of is that it's definitely cooled when I go back to check the water heater and milk tank a few hours after milking.

I don't have a plate cooler. It's like a lot of things here - I'd like one and I might get around to buying one, but for now I have to manage without it til a few other bills are paid.

mr.stonewall

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123368335#Comment_123368335

If the bulk tank is an ice bank tank, it's worthwhile looking at a 2 stage plate cooler. The well water would drop the bulk of the temp and then the ice water would really drop the temp to nearly 4c.