Dairy Chitchat 4, an udder new thread.

awaywithyou

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122653874#Comment_122653874

the man behind the app spoke at the Munster Dairy Producer Organisation meetings that were held in Limerick, Kerry and Clare a few months ago.. think he was a financial trader in the stockmarket in London in his younger days.. and was headhunted by Ornua (i think) to be their Head of Trading… not sure really how it will help dairy farmers…

atlantic mist

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122653198#Comment_122653198

been following his app since he started, i think its a pretty good app….its real time data feeding from the global exchanges….excludes premium products i.e kerrygold….its just commodity pricing

it started out with the intention to link supply to a product for customers, allowing you to trade your produce with end customer instead of dairy traders doing it on their software, not everyone would like that control or risk, think its just an informative app now as couldnt get buy in from coops here

its eye opening to know none of coops have anything like this developed….would help to know what product to be making to maximise our returns

White Clover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122654095#Comment_122654095

They're really putting the boot in there. Did you have a price agreed beforehand? I killed a few culls last week. Agreed 4.40 for O-. Had one P and got 4.30 for her.

jaymla627

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122654348#Comment_122654348

Their tb reactors, cull cows here usually go to kilbeggan, and got on well with them, theirs a fortune been made of tb in this country when you see what that factory was able to get away with paying in the above case

stanflt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122654095#Comment_122654095

the cow that weighed 312 the factory made at least 1000 euro profit on her

jaymla627

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122654410#Comment_122654410

You'd of thought 2 euro a kilo would of been the bottom price they could of put on her she was a fat score 2 at a minimum was a lovely cow, nicely fleshed

mahoney_j

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122654095#Comment_122654095

I take it there ypur reactors jay ……prices are total piss take but at least you’ll get compo from dept ….1.50 /kg all I got for mine

White Clover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122654398#Comment_122654398

I have you now. A pure racket in that case.

daiymann 5

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122653198#Comment_122653198

Why wud u want to lock ur price ur co op will pay u the price if hes accurate

mahoney_j

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122655156#Comment_122655156

you’ve great faith in our coops …..milk price paid by coops gone v cloudy now with supports ,sustainability ,cookie jar funds etc etc ……forward prices this guy is getting have been v accurate ….coops don’t want anything to do with him and will rubbish the concept for good reason

K.G.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122655203#Comment_122655203

I suppose the only thing I'd say from the fixed milk price is its actually brings more risk if you can't fix at least your feed and fertiliser as well.fellas are fixated with price whereas it's margin the count s.for the first half of my farming career the same set of sums would nearly do you but from the mid 00s on sums varied alot.

yewdairy

Dont know enough about concept dairy to have any concrete view. But surely what they are doing should be wintin capabilities of our farmer owned coop if it will add value to dairy farmers.

Farmer owned Coops are flawed and well capable of making terrible decisions that cost farmers money but on balance it probably as good a model and we will ever have.

atlantic mist

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122655479#Comment_122655479

when he was designing the model/app/software, it allowed us to fix inputs as well….on grain and fertiliser……would have cut out the 3 month time lag we have on input prices currently

no mention or additional payments for sustainability as the real customers are not willing to pay….price and quality(grading) is all that matters on the global platforms

i got severely burned in fixed milk schemes here…still working my way out of it…...if our coops singed up for it at the time i would have evened out the fixed scheme the following year…..our coops customers were not willing to fix when prices were high…..the actual real market customers were willing to fix at high prices……a lot of bull coming from coop boards the data is available to us all nowadays

think the new lacidis model where board/management explain each month how they are arriving at the milk price should be implemented here

daiymann 5

In all fairness our cops always give market price within reason as farmers our coops sell our milk if this wiz kid is so accurate with future milk price why doesnt he predict gold silver company shares if hes so talented whats he bothering with farmers for.

stanflt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122655479#Comment_122655479

concept dairy are offering fixed milk - fixed prices on straights and rations and also energy

It’s a combined system that gives the farmer no risk

Tirlan don’t want to know him cause his soya maize etc is cheaper than what they are selling

His milk prices are too transparent for their liking

K.G.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122655735#Comment_122655735

What are the prices offered for feed and fert by him going foward or how exactly does the offering work.How does he make his money out of it

yewdairy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122655735#Comment_122655735

Is there any farm in Ireland doing this? fixing milk price and straights with concept dairy?

Or is it just a theory?

The coops are still needed to collect and process the milk. Why won't coops get involved if it can improve things

mahoney_j

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122656020#Comment_122656020

he hasn’t a foothold because coops won’t let him in …..wonder why 😉😉….milk pricing now by our coops isn’t transparent …we have to take them at there word

Castlekeeper

Well they like to reserve a little flexibility for unforeseen circumstances, at the farmers expense of course.

Unfortunately their attitude is the same as everyone else in this great country, with our cop out "Sure what can you do? (but suit myself)" culture.

K.G.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122656066#Comment_122656066

Am I right in saying it's really just a risk management aid he s selling but he s trying to sell it to farmers who in turn will get their processors to buy it.

Gawddawggonnit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122655735#Comment_122655735

There’s always a risk Stan, this guy is trying to offer a system that allows farmers to minimize their exposure to markets. Great job..but Coops are not going to give farmers the ability to trade futures. When you sign a milk supply contract, the milk becomes theirs. That’s their job!
Significant money can be made in futures/puts/shorts, but it can also lose money.
These markets function on a ‘carry’ trade. Interestingly, the Paris Matif commodity market is designed to do exactly that..except there’s no ‘carry’ anymore. Essentially Matif is now a spot market. Traders, the trade, and farmers are suffering badly because of this which results in significant day to day volatility and a serious lack of speculative money/funds.

In other news..Lactalis are cutting their French milk intake by 9%. Seems they’re not interested in buying highly priced French milk and then trying to offload product on foreign markets. French milk will be solely used for products to EU market.

sandman30

From what I can see concept dairies, is not authorised or regulated by the financial regulator, so I do not think they can legally offer the products and services being talked about here.

mahoney_j

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122656526#Comment_122656526

they need buy in from processors who will want to maximise there own market returns ….to themselves firstly then the ejets milking cows …..his price offers for long time now have been fairly bang on …..if he can secure fixed returns going that far forward for milk would make you wonder what coops could/are getting …..no doubt milk prices atm are good but there is def more there that farmers should be getting

yosemitesam1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122656581#Comment_122656581

Has anyone seen what the contracted details would be?

He doesn't need the co-ops at all if he can get dairy product buyers to take part. But it's hard to see why buyers would as they can surely ring up any of the co-ops and make the actual deal on product for a future date without paying commission.

The same logic would hold for the co-ops. Why deal with this when they can just talk to customers about doing future deals also.

The price offers on milk aren't necessarily going to be able to carry even small volumes.

mahoney_j

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122656808#Comment_122656808

but to get milk he dose need the coops as we all have milk supply agreements signed to supply milk to them …we all have shares too and have paid money for them ….until suppliers are out of contract or given notice they are off limits ….unless coop gives there go ahead

stanflt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122656875#Comment_122656875

Dairygold are on board with him afaiaa

alps

No product changes hands here. There are no buyers, no sellers. You lay a bet on the price of milk at some point in the future.

For your bet, you get certainty of price. That's all that in it for you.

On top of that, for a per litre fee, you can protect against loosing out if the price of milk ends up higher than the fix.

He has a financial company covering the bets.

Nobody gets involved in buying or selling milk. This is all about the milk price, not about the milk.

Grennans ran a fixed milk price a few years ago. They had nothing to do with the milk.

visatorro

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122657059#Comment_122657059

so instead of investing money in a ponzi scheme your investing the milk?

jaymla627

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122657183#Comment_122657183

Its a cfd, dont really see the issue with it once its properly regulated with no trap-doors to catch you out

visatorro

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122657254#Comment_122657254

in theory yes. its just the regulation and the trap door that id be worried about. its a capitalist world after all.