Dairy Chitchat 4, an udder new thread.

Say my name

cjpm wrote: »

When i'm milking i usually wear waterproof trousers and a short sleeve jacket.


Too damn hot and sweaty during the summer though....



Would prefer a long apron for the warm evenings, however most aprons I've seen don't seem to cover the back of your shirt and trousers.



Any better aprons available?? That actually wrap around the wearer??




Opinions appreciated

I wear a Guy Cotton long coat in the parlour.
I have it then anyway if it's raining outside.
The hood is handy if it's needed in the parlour too.
At least you're guarranteed clean after milking.
And no leggings.

https://www.chmarine.com/guy-cotten-isofarmer-longcoat/

straight

K.G. wrote: »

You wouldnt mind going through the economics of maize versus leafy bales.by my reckoning leafy balrs come in at close to the same price as ration.we ll say the grass is costing 8cent a kilo to grow.mow bale wrap move and stack could come to 15 e and more a bale at 4 or5 bales to acre which at 200 kg dm a bale is another 8 cent.technally to compare properly you should allow a land charge as i presume the maize is on rented ground or at least like for like with ration as extra feed bought in.so if you take 10 ton dm grass at rent of 200 an acre you could add another couple of cent.now balance the cost of heifer rearing in the equation.these are only a figures to think about and can be easily disputed

The labour cost would be higher with the bales than the maize i'd imagine

whelan2

Say my name wrote: »

I wear a Guy Cotton long coat in the parlour.
I have it then anyway if it's raining outside.
The hood is handy if it's needed in the parlour too.
At least you're guarranteed clean after milking.
And no leggings.

https://www.chmarine.com/guy-cotten-isofarmer-longcoat/

You'd be roasted in that. T shirt and waterproof trousers here for milking in summer. Hoodie and waterproof trousers in winter. Find if I dont wear the water proof trousers my knees get wet. Getting old now ....

Say my name

whelan2 wrote: »

You'd be roasted in that. T shirt and waterproof trousers here for milking in summer. Hoodie and waterproof trousers in winter. Find if I dont wear the water proof trousers my knees get wet. Getting old now ....

I find it no bother. On and off in 2 seconds.
I couldn't wear waterproof trousers. :pac:

GrasstoMilk

Siamsa Sessions wrote: »

The Dairy Edge podcast from Teagasc did a special on organic milk recently. I’m no Teagasc fan but that podcast is well worth a listen.

Most organic suppliers have winter and liquid milk contracts. Price is 50-60c for that milk but organic meal is roughly twice the price of conventional stuff, so growing your own would be attractive. Summer price is up to 40c.

Very few suppliers in Ireland, and herd size varies from 20-200. Some lads are once-a-day too.

Biggest emphasis seems to be on growing the market though. It’ll be interesting to see if the EU puts money where it’s mouth is when it talks about 25% organic and makes marketing or advertising money available to promote organic milk, yogurt, and cheese

Consumers dont want to pay more for food, as little as possible infact.
How would organic products command a premium if 25% of the milk was organic and the demand isnt there and shoppers dont want to pay more for food.
You'll just end up with conventional price with a heap more regulations and less milk going out the gate because you would have to keep less cows

GrasstoMilk

Mooooo wrote: »

If buying in forage, maize is up there value wise definitely prob better value than grass silage.
If lads are getting young stock contract reared, What stocking rate do ye run the home farm without having to buy in forage? Assuming heifers come back a month before calving

2.5 over all 4 around the parlour next year.
We grow lots of grass over winter so no issue on that front for the first round, no problem pushing in feed in the yard too at the start of the lactaton if we are tight as it sets them up well for the year.
Keeping them out into November might be hard do without feeding hard in the yard but we'll see how things go

dar31

Mooooo wrote: »

If buying in forage, maize is up there value wise definitely prob better value than grass silage.
If lads are getting young stock contract reared, What stocking rate do ye run the home farm without having to buy in forage? Assuming heifers come back a month before calving

Ave for the year 2.8lu/ha. Next year planning to stock main grazing season at 3.2 Ave and sell off empties oct/nov before the require silage instead of milking them through the winter this will bring me back to ave of about 2.8 for the year.
Only cows and few bull here for last 5 years, looking to do away with bulls for next year.
Can make enough silage for herd but will buy any forage offered to me for a reserve. 7ac mz this year, rather look at it than for it.
In a bad milk price year or poor grass growth ill reduce s/r accordingly
Aim is to match s/r to grass growth for the year

Edit. Farm is all one block no other ground feeding into it.

Timmaay

K.G. wrote: »

You wouldnt mind going through the economics of maize versus leafy bales.by my reckoning leafy balrs come in at close to the same price as ration.we ll say the grass is costing 8cent a kilo to grow.mow bale wrap move and stack could come to 15 e and more a bale at 4 or5 bales to acre which at 200 kg dm a bale is another 8 cent.technally to compare properly you should allow a land charge as i presume the maize is on rented ground or at least like for like with ration as extra feed bought in.so if you take 10 ton dm grass at rent of 200 an acre you could add another couple of cent.now balance the cost of heifer rearing in the equation.these are only a figures to think about and can be easily disputed

32e/ton wet without land change, 40e with a 200e/ac land change, assuming 23t/ac yield wet, them are my rough all in costs. The aim would be 30 30 dm and starch, I much prefer growing it myself despite the extra workload, because I have full control of the seed and the harvest dates (both of which will have huge impact on maize quality, a contractor will favour high yeilding low dm early cut maize because he can sell more tons of it, but that's a compete disadvantage to the farmer in terms of cost/dm). Anyways 40e/ton at 30dm works out at 12c/kgdm, so similar price to 1st cut. In terms of paddock bales, there is no point me not putting a land charge because I'd be purposely making less drycow silage to have more leafy silage, so would either be renting more land for drycow silage, or be pricing in that land rental into bought in standing crops.

Birdnuts

GrasstoMilk wrote: »

Consumers dont want to pay more for food, as little as possible infact.
How would organic products command a premium if 25% of the milk was organic and the demand isnt there and shoppers dont want to pay more for food.
You'll just end up with conventional price with a heap more regulations and less milk going out the gate because you would have to keep less cows

Well its not as black and white as that - sure a large segment of the population is happy to consume any old muck that they can fit into their mouth, but their of little benefit to most Irish farming anyway as they will be supplied by the lowest margin, lowest rung of the ladder, much of which will be imported(Think Thai chickens, Cheap SA mince etc.). However there is a growing food educated segment more interested in a healthy wholesome diet that is sustaineably produced and they are prepared to pay at least a bit more for it. Tis why even the likes of ALDI/LIDL have a growing range of organic dairy produce including Milk, Cheese and Yogurt etc. Sadly most of it is currently imported from the likes of NI but thats more a reflection of DAFM, Teagasc.Bord Bia etc. being behind the curve on such matters. In any case rightly or wrongly intensive conventional Dairy is now seen as the bad boy of Irish farming in terms of its environmental impacts and so will have to up its game in the area of sustaineability - especcially in light of ever growing pressure from the EU in terms of mandatory directives on these matters that apply to all farmers(including those not in the CAP SFP system).

mahoney_j

Birdnuts wrote: »

Well its not as black and white as that - sure a large segment of the population is happy to consume any old muck that they can fit into their mouth, but their of little benefit to most Irish farming anyway as they will be supplied by the lowest margin, lowest rung of the ladder, much of which will be imported(Think Thai chickens, Cheap SA mince etc.). However there is a growing food educated segment more interested in a healthy wholesome diet that is sustaineably produced and they are prepared to pay at least a bit more for it. Tis why even the likes of ALDI/LIDL have a growing range of organic dairy produce including Milk, Cheese and Yogurt etc. Sadly most of it is currently imported from the likes of NI but thats more a reflection of DAFM, Teagasc.Bord Bia etc. being behind the curve on such matters. In any case rightly or wrongly intensive conventional Dairy is now seen as the bad boy of Irish farming in terms of its environmental impacts and so will have to up its game in the area of sustaineability - especcially in light of ever growing pressure from the EU in terms of mandatory directives on these matters that apply to all farmers(including those not in the CAP SFP system).

I think you’ll find dairying here is far from the bad boy u think we are leasing the change on environmental issues sustainability etc were adopting the prot ureas less ,fencing of waterways creating wildlife belts planting trees sowing hedges

K.G.

Timmaay wrote: »

32e/ton wet without land change, 40e with a 200e/ac land change, assuming 23t/ac yield wet, them are my rough all in costs. The aim would be 30 30 dm and starch, I much prefer growing it myself despite the extra workload, because I have full control of the seed and the harvest dates (both of which will have huge impact on maize quality, a contractor will favour high yeilding low dm early cut maize because he can sell more tons of it, but that's a compete disadvantage to the farmer in terms of cost/dm). Anyways 40e/ton at 30dm works out at 12c/kgdm, so similar price to 1st cut. In terms of paddock bales, there is no point me not putting a land charge because I'd be purposely making less drycow silage to have more leafy silage, so would either be renting more land for drycow silage, or be pricing in that land rental into bought in standing crops.

I could see down the line with nitrates that lads could be entering arrangements exporting slurry for feed and mai ze is an easy fit for alot of lads.its just im not sure that lqeafy bales are much cheaper than ration

mahoney_j

K.G. wrote: »

I could see down the line with nitrates that lads could be entering arrangements exporting slurry for feed and mai ze is an easy fit for alot of lads.its just im not sure that lqeafy bales are much cheaper than ration

And leafy ishhhhh bales from surplus paddocks are no where near the rocket fuel some think they are.theyll most likely be high in n and ****e from dung pads come in as well.the real quality silage come from ryegrass/clover swards growing for 30/40’days max depending on growth

Timmaay

mahoney_j wrote: »

And leafy ishhhhh bales from surplus paddocks are no where near the rocket fuel some think they are.theyll most likely be high in n and ****e from dung pads come in as well.the real quality silage come from ryegrass/clover swards growing for 30/40’days max depending on growth

Very good point, there are some paddock bales that you make purely for the sake of removing steamy grass from the field, in particular in mid June this year when the drought was at it's worst. I usually aim to use up them bales in Dec when cows are drying off anyways. However you can get very good quality silage off paddocks of clean swards that simply got ahead of you, I'd even call 40 days too long in this case.

K.G.

Which is the most profitable/resilient/strategic
Cows hiefers home reared some silage but most from outblocks and average ration use.
More Cows only at home some silage bales but most from outside heifers reared off farm and average ration use
More cows no silage at home ration fed when grass tight instead of surplus bales so higher ration.all winter feed coming from outside and could be beet or maize bought in

straight

K.G. wrote: »

Which is the most profitable/resilient/strategic
Cows hiefers home reared some silage but most from outblocks and average ration use.
More Cows only at home some silage bales but most from outside heifers reared off farm and average ration use
More cows no silage at home ration fed when grass tight instead of surplus bales so higher ration.all winter feed coming from outside and could be beet or maize bought in

Well I wouldn't say any system is particularly profitable if you take into account the amount of labour involved. I like to keep a closed herd here and I like to breed my own replacements. I'm still naive enough to think that I can breed one of the best herds in the country although i know it's not easy. So I'd say it's all down to personal preference. For example alot of lads seem to be numbers men now so if that's what a fella wants then pile them high.

Water John

The race of price to the bottom is largely a myth. It's a myth that suits many who make their margin in the middle. They take their margin anyway.
If we were that price sensitive then we'd all have beef and no lamb. We'd eat white meat instead of either.

GrasstoMilk

https://youtu.be/FJ8O2y01CmY

Very well thought out rotary parlour. A credit to them

trixi2011

GrasstoMilk wrote: »

https://youtu.be/FJ8O2y01CmY

Very well thought out rotary parlour. A credit to them

Very impressive alright but to me it does seem a little over the top. You would wonder how many cent a litre that parlour is costing each year .

mahoney_j

trixi2011 wrote: »

Very impressive alright but to me it does seem a little over the top. You would wonder how many cent a litre that parlour is costing each year .

Disagree it’s a savage job ,a lad would be happy rocking up to work there every day and you’d be proud to own it everything seems to flow well as regards stock and easy move and desperate stock etc cost a few quid granted but some just don’t want misery and hardship more power to them for going ahead with it obviously a big financial commitment but I’m sure they have there figures done

Panch18

Grueller wrote: »

At the mention of contract rearing. I have an outfarm that I am keeping sucklers on at the moment. I am looking for an exit strategy from sucklers and have an idea of contract rearing. The only snag is that I would want to batch them with my own heifers. I have plenty grass and housing for up to 45 on top of my own heifers. Would mixing the heifers be a deal breaker?

Wouldn't it be easier to ditch the sucklers and rear on some of your own bull calves to 18 months - they're doing a good trade in the marts.

Don't have to worry about anybody else then

cosatron

GrasstoMilk wrote: »

https://youtu.be/FJ8O2y01CmY

Very well thought out rotary parlour. A credit to them

is there another man washing the udder or has he the automatic arm for that.

jaymla627

mahoney_j wrote: »

Disagree it’s a savage job ,a lad would be happy rocking up to work there every day and you’d be proud to own it everything seems to flow well as regards stock and easy move and desperate stock etc cost a few quid granted but some just don’t want misery and hardship more power to them for going ahead with it obviously a big financial commitment but I’m sure they have there figures done

If current cow numbers stayed the same, and with the rotary in, the milking process has to really become a one man operation to justify the investment in that milker gets in cows, does milking and shuts them back out, time savings wouldn’t be huge over the current set-up, where one man goes for cows, sets paddock up and another lad starts milking, would lose over half a hour here easily on long walks going for cows setting strip wire and sitting time behind cows walking them in, another 15 minutes plus extra for washing uptime with the rotary....
Its a savage set-up, but its very hard to see how its justifiable unless a full time Labour unit is been replaced by parlour

Grueller

Panch18 wrote: »

Wouldn't it be easier to ditch the sucklers and rear on some of your own bull calves to 18 months - they're doing a good trade in the marts.

Don't have to worry about anybody else then

Tis away from the volatility of beef I am trying to get. That type of cattle are the first to take a hit always. Having said all of that, that's what will happen most likely.

Panch18

Grueller wrote: »

Tis away from the volatility of beef I am trying to get. That type of cattle are the first to take a hit always. Having said all of that, that's what will happen most likely.

Get yourself a good hereford or angus bull and you won't need to worry about price volatility.

Saw reasonably nice WH bullocks (nothing to flash now) last week - 425 kg, €940. You'd be hard pushed to beat that doing anything else

awaywithyou

GrasstoMilk wrote: »

https://youtu.be/FJ8O2y01CmY

Very well thought out rotary parlour. A credit to them

i wouldnt say its perfect... whole building is in the wrong place imo

Panch18

awaywithyou wrote: »

i wouldnt say its perfect... whole building is in the wrong place imo

how do you mean?

Say my name

Panch18 wrote: »

how do you mean?

He means it should be located in my yard.

straight

Grueller wrote: »

Tis away from the volatility of beef I am trying to get. That type of cattle are the first to take a hit always. Having said all of that, that's what will happen most likely.

At least you will get paid. Alot of dairy heros not very good to pay their Bill's by all accounts. Contract rearing could get messy for both parties.

straight

jaymla627 wrote: »

If current cow numbers stayed the same, and with the rotary in, the milking process has to really become a one man operation to justify the investment in that milker gets in cows, does milking and shuts them back out, time savings wouldn’t be huge over the current set-up, where one man goes for cows, sets paddock up and another lad starts milking, would lose over half a hour here easily on long walks going for cows setting strip wire and sitting time behind cows walking them in, another 15 minutes plus extra for washing uptime with the rotary....
Its a savage set-up, but its very hard to see how its justifiable unless a full time Labour unit is been replaced by parlour

I'm only a small setup by today's standards and it's taking me an hour to get the cows in in the mornings these days.

trixi2011

mahoney_j wrote: »

Disagree it’s a savage job ,a lad would be happy rocking up to work there every day and you’d be proud to own it everything seems to flow well as regards stock and easy move and desperate stock etc cost a few quid granted but some just don’t want misery and hardship more power to them for going ahead with it obviously a big financial commitment but I’m sure they have there figures done

I don't disagree at all with you that it's a savage job probably one of the best I've seen but for the number of cows it is going to be a huge expense going forward . Alot of people talk about the labour saving element of rotarys bit don't know if there really is that much of a saving .