Dairy Chitchat 4, an udder new thread.

straight

awaywithyou wrote: »

some of the suggestions by aidan brennan in todays Journal to make a few hours grazing possible are gas.... why would anyone bother is beyond me... way handier to put a mountain of silage at feed barrier to do for a couple days... lads arent short of a job at this time of year besides going around in the dark with a reel and pigtails looking for a dry knob to get cows out for 3hrs before bringing them in to stand in the collecting yard til evening milking....

I guess he's just regurgitating the same owl sh1te as every other year. He has to fill the pages with something.

mahoney_j

straight wrote: »

I guess he's just regurgitating the same owl sh1te as every other year. He has to fill the pages with something.

Exactly,you wouldn’t want to be getting too hung up on what he prints every week silage is poison for Milkers ,no need to feed over 3/4 kg meal the early fertiliser despite wet cold ground and the country looking to renew derogation .etc etc

Mooooo

If the grass targets can be met it does set up the farm, this Feb down here anyway bar the couple of dry frosty days has been non stop wet. Think a lad further southwest of me measured 50ml in one day last week

jaymla627

straight wrote: »

I guess he's just regurgitating the same owl sh1te as every other year. He has to fill the pages with something.

Isn't it the easiest number going you could take the article printed today go back a decade and the message would still be exactly the same

Finty Lemon

jaymla627 wrote: »

Isn't it the easiest number going you could take the article printed today go back a decade and the message would still be exactly the same

What would you like to see him write about instead? To be fair they have a page every week on high yielding herds in NI

Its no better on the drystock side, by the way, AW just seems to want to report on big prices from sham suckler sales.

mahoney_j

Finty Lemon wrote: »

What would you like to see him write about instead? To be fair they have a page every week on high yielding herds in NI

Its no better on the drystock side, by the way, AW just seems to want to report on big prices from sham suckler sales.

Reality would be good ,some heap of lads would be fair pissed off reading some of his reports and wonder where there going wrong when in reality they may not be doing much wrong ,all for getting cows out within reason but sometimes u have to admit defeat and close the shed door and horse in the silage and meal wouldn’t be gone on this 3 hours grass and leave them in a shed or the yard with no feed either can’t be good for fresh calvers

straight

Finty Lemon wrote: »

What would you like to see him write about instead? To be fair they have a page every week on high yielding herds in NI

Its no better on the drystock side, by the way, AW just seems to want to report on big prices from sham suckler sales.

I'd like to see them be a bit more honest about the level of profitability in dairy farming when all labour/land/facilities are accounted for. I'd like to see detailed workings of how much work it took 30 years ago to earn a living wage vs what it takes now. Maybe worked examples of farmers hourly rate vs comparable business owners. Other than that I'd like see more real accounts of dairy farming from the average size family farmer.

The Rabbi

Forty years ago you would be going well to have the cows out by St Patricks day,twenty years ago the weather played ball and we had grass so the cows could be out in January.Now we're back to late Feb.

jaymla627

Finty Lemon wrote: »

What would you like to see him write about instead? To be fair they have a page every week on high yielding herds in NI

Its no better on the drystock side, by the way, AW just seems to want to report on big prices from sham suckler sales.

The nitrates issue would be standout, it's far from guaranteed derogation will be renewed for next year, so I'd love to know what's the back-up plan for the 6000 odd dairy farmers in derogation, the financial implications for having to cut cow numbers/face bps fines, our instances where guys rent more ground to get out of jail what's the effects of this on profitability given it destroys the roadmap for your 500 kg cow stocked at 3.5 plus cows/ha giving 500kg of solids on half a ton of meal with 16 plus odd ton of dm/ha been grown on the milking block and your dry cow silage bought in for the 60 odd days the cows wont be at grass

straight

jaymla627 wrote: »

The nitrates issue would be standout, it's far from guaranteed derogation will be renewed for next year, so I'd love to know what's the back-up plan for the 6000 odd dairy farmers in derogation, the financial implications for having to cut cow numbers/face bps fines, our instances where guys rent more ground to get out of jail what's the effects of this on profitability given it destroys the roadmap for your 500 kg cow stocked at 3.5 plus cows/ha giving 500kg of solids on half a ton of meal with 16 plus odd ton of dm/ha been grown on the milking block and your dry cow silage bought in for the 60 odd days the cows wont be at grass

I rose a similar issue at a teagasc meeting and was called a philistine.

kevthegaff

I had the cows out here last week for 5 days when it was frosty, ideal conditions, saved silage and slurry. Cows were very content. No chance this week, just too wet here. I just get them out for 3-4 hours when I feel they wont damage ground

alps

jaymla627 wrote: »

Isn't it the easiest number going you could take the article printed today go back a decade and the message would still be exactly the same

He was right 10 years ago, and he's right today..

visatorro

straight wrote:

I'd like to see them be a bit more honest about the level of profitability in dairy farming when all labour/land/facilities are accounted for. I'd like to see detailed workings of how much work it took 30 years ago to earn a living wage vs what it takes now. Maybe worked examples of farmers hourly rate vs comparable business owners. Other than that I'd like see more real accounts of dairy farming from the average size family farmer.

Just on your last sentence . Id a man here this week talking about his discussion group. 15 farms roughly. All 1-2 labour units. All good operations. A good few new entrants over the last few years have asked about joining and attended a couple of meetings. Then decided that there wasn't enough big farms in the group. X group is milking an Average of 400 cows. Very naive/arrogant attitude to have which the journal doesn't help I feel. Id wager the 100 cow man is making a very good return. And that's not because they have no repayments etc. Upgrading and improvement is part of the game. Just shrewd, competent business people.

awaywithyou

kevthegaff wrote: »

I had the cows out here last week for 5 days when it was frosty, ideal conditions, saved silage and slurry. Cows were very content. No chance this week, just too wet here. I just get them out for 3-4 hours when I feel they wont damage ground

i should also have said i dont have a problem with cows being out in February.. plenty of cows out around my area last week and they got on grand...

its the get them out at all costs approach that i dont understand... Calving is the biggest event in a cows life... she will be delicate for some time after.. immune system is down.. negative energy balance.. etc... and then if she has held afterbirths or had a hard/difficult calving her health is further compromised... out in a field in this weeks weather is no place for a freshly calved cow... jesus show some respect for the animal..

jaymla627

alps wrote: »

He was right 10 years ago, and he's right today..

You see no potential problems in restricting feed to freshly calved cows to make sure they god forbid don't clean out a paddock correctly, he'll have a newsbite next week about lads with cows with da's and be blaming it on to much meal ffs...

Gawddawggonnit

mahoney_j wrote: »

Exactly,you wouldn’t want to be getting too hung up on what he prints every week silage is poison for Milkers ,no need to feed over 3/4 kg meal the early fertiliser despite wet cold ground and the country looking to renew derogation .etc etc

I watched it. You’re correct.
There’s almost subliminal pressure put on farmers to up the N rates...3/4 of a bag...young seeds...etc. etc.

Gawddawggonnit

straight wrote: »

I rose a similar issue at a teagasc meeting and was called a philistine.

I see ETTG must have started reading my posts from years ago.,,it’s fair bad when a magazine show like that is ahead of Teagasc in trying to look to the immediate future.

Gawddawggonnit

awaywithyou wrote: »

i should also have said i dont have a problem with cows being out in February.. plenty of cows out around my area last week and they got on grand...

its the get them out at all costs approach that i dont understand... Calving is the biggest event in a cows life... she will be delicate for some time after.. immune system is down.. negative energy balance.. etc... and then if she has held afterbirths or had a hard/difficult calving her health is further compromised... out in a field in this weeks weather is no place for a freshly calved cow... jesus show some respect for the animal..

Good point.
I wonder do the xbreds handle the whole calving process easier because they’re such poor producers and it doesn’t put such a strain on them?
The old lads here say that you shouldn’t put a freshly calved cow out in weather that you wouldn’t put their calf out in.

kevthegaff

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

Good point.
I wonder do the xbreds handle the whole calving process easier because they’re such poor producers and it doesn’t put such a strain on them?
The old lads here say that you shouldn’t put a freshly calved cow out in weather that you wouldn’t put their calf out in.

One reason guys are letting out cows is, their sheds are packed full, I think he best bet is somewhere in the middlr

whelan2

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

Good point.
I wonder do the xbreds handle the whole calving process easier because they’re such poor producers and it doesn’t put such a strain on them?
The old lads here say that you shouldn’t put a freshly calved cow out in weather that you wouldn’t put their calf out in.

I was at a farm walk a couple of years ago at this time of year, the cows were out. It was horrible weather. I remember a couple of cows hunched up, one still with cleanings hanging. If this is what people do to meet targets etc I want to be a million miles away from it. No need for that. Look after the cow and she'll look after you

Finty Lemon

jaymla627 wrote: »

You see no potential problems in restricting feed to freshly calved cows to make sure they god forbid don't clean out a paddock correctly, he'll have a newsbite next week about lads with cows with da's and be blaming it on to much meal ffs...

Interesting to read the debate here.

From what I see, the argument is mostly about the tactics and not the strategy.

Most folk are in reasonable agreement about the value of spring grass?

The fault lines are around when you have to stick or twist. Some people seem to take the thing too literally, you must get out etc etc. No room for nuance it seems. But it is easy to mis-represent the message wither way to prove a point I suppose
Brennan is probably pushing his luck to generate the discussion which is no bad thing, but if morons can't think for themselves then is it really his fault?

If you stand back from it, you are essentially arguing about how to do a version of the same good idea. Meanwhile, on the beef side we just leave the cattle inside and complain about the price!

alps

Making a mountain out of a mole hill, and the exaggeration around the animal treatment is daft..

Couple of dry hours...cows out..

Nothing better for them..

Simple decisions, but moaning about animal abuse because you dont want to play duck n dive with the weather is just pure excuses..

cute geoge

Somelads have some powerfull ground if cows can be out for a few hours in this weather .I walked out a paddock yesterday and every step i Made left a mark sure is some difference in land

alps

jaymla627 wrote: »

You see no potential problems in restricting feed to freshly calved cows to make sure they god forbid don't clean out a paddock correctly, he'll have a newsbite next week about lads with cows with da's and be blaming it on to much meal ffs...

No problem restricting....definitively different to starving..

Intakes imv are about MJ not DM..

alps

cute geoge wrote: »

Somelads have some powerfull ground if cows can be out for a few hours in this weather .I walked out a paddock yesterday and every step i Made left a mark sure is some difference in land

Big difference in ground. After a couple of dry days we can snatch grazings here, but we couldn't possibly go for an all day or all nighter unless it got extremely dry, and even at that we wouldn't have the allocation to give them.

However, the later we leave those snatched grazings, the less grass we have available for the cows in the second rotation, which is on the run io to bulling. To me, that is the mortal sin, not being able to allocate full allowance/demand at that time.

Full demand will never be achieved if grazing covers <1300, and if you want to achieve that, you need the days between 1st and 2nd grazing.

Gillespy

Prioritising grazing targets above your cows diet consistency makes no sense to me. Restricting fresh cows is an anti-farmer concept I can't believe is a thing. I disregard any adviser/journalist that promotes it.

Mooooo

Will use maidens here to catch up on ground grazed if I can, haven't dried off the 9 empty cows either so they will keep demand up a bit when we eventually get out. As Alps said it's about setting the farm up, do what ya can when ya can.

K.G.

used to be more gungho about grazing in the wet but have pulled back.the biggest issue is if you mess up the ground first grazing you are in trouble for the second or other grazings.it might grow grass but it becomes awful easy to do serious damage if its been messed up once.the only thing ill say about keeping them in on the other hand is theres no money in it,grass is still where the money is

cute geoge

I will only be starting calving next week and march 20th before I am normally able to get them out for a few hours .If the weather stays dry from Paddys day ,my ground dries up other wise it will be first week of April before thet see grass .My question is am I still calving too early but I seem to get nervous if I don't have some few calved in Feburary .I found the milk supplied barely covered the meal bll when I used start in early Feburary and then Protein used to drop down to 3% and under if I could not get them out until April

stanflt

No grazing done- no fert out - and practically no slurry out
Zero f***is given- cows health is more important