Comet NeoWise

pad199207

lolie

robclay26 wrote: »

Super pic! What’s the streak going right to left at 30 degree angle??i can see it outside too

Its a plane contrail thet moved up through the comet, the small line is a satellite.

Just got off the phone to my sister and her little fella to tell them where to look, he couldn't wait to see it since i mentioned it last. Went back to sleep happy.

M.T. Cranium

Just had a look here, as of 0700h IST (2300h local) it was very difficult to find without binoculars, at least one magnitude weaker than yesterday's look, estimated 5th magnitude which is near the limit for these old eyes.

Glad I saw it at its peak a few days ago.

Must say looking at your pictures from about six hours earlier, it has faded rapidly in that six hour period. Maybe it's undergoing some variations and will come back a bit before next opportunity. Might try again around 0130h and see if that's the case.

nthclare

Akrasia wrote: »

I’d Say slightly west of the city, ( from the POV of the Dunes on the Beach). i was looking too far north early on, its also quite high in the sky about now, maybe a third of the way between the horizon and 90 degrees

It’s a whispy tail to the naked eye but once you see it, you can’t miss it

Are you up that way yourself ?

I've 15×70 binoculars and a tripod and a phone attachment.

I often stargaze up at the Poulnabrone dolmen late at night, I spent a lot of time there during the lockdown as it was over the road.

It's a great location for the sthars like

pauldry

Is it very low on the horizon.

I looked 2 nights now in Sligo but town lights a bit bright to my Northwest. Does anyone here live in Sligo town and where is it in the sky? Is it left of Ben Bulben or over towards Rosses Point?

SouthWesterly

pauldry wrote: »

Is it very low on the horizon.

I looked 2 nights now in Sligo but town lights a bit bright to my Northwest. Does anyone here live in Sligo town and where is it in the sky? Is it left of Ben Bulben or over towards Rosses Point?

Here you go. It's higher than it was but very faint. You'll need a pair of binoculars at this stage.
It's just under the hook on the plough if that makes sense
I'm in relatively dark skies and having issues seeing it compared to a week ago

quad_red

Anyone recommend a good spot in north co Dublin to stargaze this? We’re on the coast and looking north is where Balbriggan and drogheda are.

Oneiric 3

pauldry wrote: »

Is it very low on the horizon.

I looked 2 nights now in Sligo but town lights a bit bright to my Northwest. Does anyone here live in Sligo town and where is it in the sky? Is it left of Ben Bulben or over towards Rosses Point?

Last night about midnight, it was directly northwest (I used a compass) and about, or a little below, the halfway point between the horizon and the zenith. Took me a while to spot it as my eyesight is not the best anyway. Very faint but unmistakable.

Oneiric 3

Meteorite58 wrote: »

After my rather embarrassing attempt last night I spent a bit of time this evening learning up a bit.... better shot tonight and framed The Plough in as well. Very faint to the naked eye.

This is a great shot that pretty much represents how it looked to me at least.

Calibos

Even though last night was the best night in a month or two, Neowise is lost in the skyglow and behind two cranes from my back yard. Typical.

The sky last night didnt prompt me to wheel out my 16in Dob but I did dig out my 80mm Finderscope and Televue Ethos Eyepieces and got surprisingly great views of Jupiter and Saturn despite them being low in Sagittarius to the south. The ‘seeing’ was good enough that I could see the gap betweens Saturns rings and its disk and I could see the two main equatorial cloud bands on Jupiters Disk with a pair of Galilean Moons either side.

Family all saw an unexpected/coincidental really bright Satellite (SSW to NEE) Exactly when They came out to look at Saturn/Jupiter. Approaching ISS brightness but not the ISS. (I checked timings afterwards). Brother also saw the meteor a few of you mentioned.

So the night wasn’t a total bust.

oriel36

The descriptions of the location of the comet are all based on daily rotational coordinates of North/South/East/West projected out into space therefore represent descriptions for identification purposes alone without the more satisfying depth perception based on a Sun centred system and seen from the orbital plane of the Earth.

The orbital plane of the Earth is easily determined presently as the Earth roughly follows the same plane as Jupiter and Saturn and these two planets provide a straight line presently defining that plane and opposite the stationary/central Sun -

https://apod.nasa.gov/apod/image/0112/JuSa2000_tezel.gif

https://theskylive.com/planetarium?objects=sun-moon-saturn-c2020f3-mercury-venus-mars-jupiter-uranus-neptune-pluto&obj=saturn&h=22&m=15&date=2020-07-20#ra|20.830736568945362|dec|-19.14937126801609|fov|80

Follow the horizon (which extends only a number of miles anyway) and the observer is rewarded with a sense of solar system depth rather than just pasting the planets and comet against a celestial sphere background. It is the more expansive thing to do and especially now as our planet passes Jupiter and Saturn at our mutual closest points in a common journey around the Sun -

https://www.theplanetstoday.com/


It is delightful to see weather enthusiasts be drawn to the comet even without putting the celestial object in context of the orbital motion and position of the Earth between the faster and slower moving planets. Some people argue that such events don't belong in a meteorological forum yet it is impossible to consider weather and climate without our planetary daily rotational and orbital traits.

Calibos

Oh Lords of Celestial Motion...Give me Strength!!

Popoutman

(Don't engage, just ignore, eventually they'll either give up with no engagement, or the mods will have done due diligence and banned for continual off-topic derailment and ignorance of instruction.)

But yes, I <BA>Do pity the fool. </BA>

oriel36

Too much fuss directed towards my descriptions which are all based from an orbital plane standpoint. Those who use the cardinal points (N/S/E/W) to identify the comet are like people on a carousel trying to make sense of motions outside the carousel . It would normally be fine to use a celestial sphere framework for identification but these jokers overreach and attempt to use the Earth's rotation to interpret orbital motions or even model the Earth's motion hence their awful ideas about climate and weather -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QwSlkJG8gTU

Encouraging observers to take the more expansive view and go beyond mere identification is always going to attract a small audience presently and so what if the usual suspects whine and complain, somehow the more expansive view takes into account genuine astronomy that was lost to celestial sphere enthusiasts and their late 17th century RA/Dec framework -

https://astronomy.com/~/media/6086B7E16761466A9D4C189A35DC516F.jpg

The Earth doesn't exist like that and especially not dealing with cause and effect in respect to weather and the seasons. When people stop mocking themselves and take the more expansive view that modern imaging allows then people will get on with genuine research instead of the awful mishmash of experimental theorists and celestial sphere enthusiasts.

lolie

Calibos wrote: »

Oh Lords of Celestial Motion...Give me Strength!!

I take it you're not into your orbital planes and Celestial motions

Looks like lots of cloud rolling in from the northwest, might spoil the fun tonight.
https://en.sat24.com/en/gb/visual

oriel36

lolie wrote: »

I take it you're not into your orbital planes and Celestial motions

For whatever reason, people feel free to express their lack of interest and knowledge in astronomy as though it were the greatest thing ever -

https://twitter.com/vodafoneireland/status/1269886882273320963

How we see events free of the daily rotation and its carousel-like effects is one of the greatest engineering achievements but I wouldn't try to convince you nor all the other people who believe identification of the comet is the sole extent of their abilities. The engineering achievement is not matched by the interpretative faculties all have, some more and others less.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4AEluR-CBu4&t=41s


The narrator doesn't say it directly but the change in position of the background stars from left to right of the central Sun and parallel to the orbital plane is a demonstration of the Earth's motion. Why people find this offensive is anyone's guess !.

Take your photos and enjoy them, however, the real challenge is far more expansive and satisfying as viewed from the orbital plane of the Earth. We participate in that motion along the orbital plane but the observation is normally swamped by daily rotation and the dummies who think they are doing everyone a favour by modeling off a rotating celestial sphere.

Cody montana

Will we see it tonight?

lolie

Cody montana wrote: »

Will we see it tonight?

Hard to tell yet as a good bit of cloud out now.

Iss is out tonight at 10.26, 12.03 and 1.40 if anyone has clear skies.

Magellanic

Just saw ISS pass in clear (bright-ish) kerry skies - fingers crossed the cloudless skies continue.

Cody montana

Magellanic wrote: »

Just saw ISS pass in clear (bright-ish) kerry skies - fingers crossed the cloudless skies continue.

I can see feck all in the city.

Magellanic

Just spotted Neowise here on Dingle Peninsula. Clear skies have helped a lot.

Purple Mountain

lolie wrote: »

Hard to tell yet as a good bit of cloud out now.

Iss is out tonight at 10.26, 12.03 and 1.40 if anyone has clear skies.

Thank you, saw ISS for first time there now

Gaoth Laidir

It's all explained in a song...

M.T. Cranium

It continues to show faintly with not much difference observed (by me at least) tonight vs previous night, no more than a 4th magnitude object but looks okay in binocs, marginal for naked eye findings.

Saw the ISS going over also. They should flash their lights just for a bit of fun.

oriel36

Gaoth Laidir wrote: »

It's all explained in a song...

The idea is not to criticise those who wish to identify the comet against the background stars but rather to draw attention to the more expansive perspective based on position and motion of the comet to the position and motion of the Earth and other planets in a Sun centred system.

21st century observers use a framework where the stars move from horizon to horizon in circumpolar motion -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYy0EQBnqHI

The early heliocentric and antecedent geocentric astronomers used a framework where the Sun moves through the field of background stars annually -

https://community.dur.ac.uk/john.lucey/users/sun_ecliptic.gif


The astronomers in antiquity used the first seasonal appearance of the stars as a framework so although they framed it as a new group of stars rising with the Sun every 10 days (the Decans), it is really the change in position of the stars parallel to the orbital plane due to the orbital motion of the Earth -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4AEluR-CBu4&t=48s

".. on account of the procession of the rising of Sirius by one day in the course of 4 years,.. therefore it shall be, that the year of 360 days and the 5 days added to their end, so one day shall be from this day after every 4 years added to the 5 epagomenae before the new year" Canopus Decree 238 BC

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decan


Due to the calendar reform introduced by the Catholic Church in 1582, the Sun no longer drifts through the constellations ('age of aquarius' for example) as the correction is a further refinement of the leap day correction employed by our astronomical ancestors. Just as an orbit of the Sun is not exactly 365 rotations for one orbital circuit then neither is it exactly 1461 rotations for 4 orbital circuits.

https://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap181123.html

It is up to the reader or observer to put the position of Sirius in context of the Earth's position and orbital motion as it moves from an evening to dawn appearance rather than try to downplay the delicate observations needed to extract any daily rotational component from observations. Impossible to account for the seasons without this fact.

M.T. Cranium

Due to precession of the earth's orbit, the Sun at various times of the year will continue to move relative to the fixed star background. The Gregorian calendar correction only removed the error in the Julian calendar's approximation of 365.25 days per year; precession continues to occur over a 26,000 year cycle. This is why the astrological signs are one month out, the Sun was in those zodiac signs when astrology was first formulated in pre-Roman times, but nowadays, the Sun moves through each zodiac sign a month later than our birth signs would indicate. Example, Gemini runs from May 22 to June 21, but the Sun only reaches Gemini in late June in our times and leaves it in late July. Another two thousand years from now, the Sun will move through Gemini from late July to late August. I doubt whether astrologers will revise their birth date chronologies but if they are still even part of culture in twelve thousand years, their signs will be exactly opposite the reality of the times. (the purist would also add that over longer periods of time, the fixed stars move relative to each other and the sky will not always look the way it looks today, those changes take longer than one precession cycle however).

One thing this means is that our familiar winter stars will be summer stars in twelve thousand years, and Antares will have the stage to itself in November-December rather than May-June as at present.

What is precession in layman's terms? The earth's orbit is defined as the ecliptic plane. The spring equinox is defined to be that moment in time where the ecliptic plane intersects the equatorial plane in an upward direction. The autumn equinox is the moment where a second intersection occurs in the downward direction. But these "nodes" are slowly retreating in a retrograde direction. Nowadays the vernal equinox occurs before the Sun reaches Aries, Taurus and Gemini. But in two thousand years, it will occur between Pisces and Aries. The mid-June summer solstice (solar position at highest declination) that now occurs around the position of the Milky Way over Orion's shoulder will then occur close to Aldebaran in Taurus. Another two millenia on, and the summer solstice will be in Aries, with the vernal equinox between Aquarius and Pisces. The winter sky will look a lot different, Spica will be rising, Regulus will be high in the south, and Orion will be setting on a January night. This drift will continue until a full cycle is completed over 26,000 years. Polaris will not remain the "north star" as a result, eventually, that position will drift over towards a brighter star, Vega,which will eventually be the north star for a few millennia.

The Moon's orbit also has moving nodes, but they only take 18.6 years to do what the earth's orbital nodes require 26,000 years to do. So over a lifetime we are likely to see four or five of the Moon's orbital precession cycles. The Moon orbits at an angle of 5.1 deg to our ecliptic plane (not the equatorial plane). When the nodes are near the earth's orbital nodes, the range of declination of the Moon will be either larger or smaller than average by 5.1 deg, at this point we are at a point where the Moon's orbital nodes are near the declination maxima which means that the winter and summer lunar positions are near the ecliptic plane. The spring full moons recently have been riding lower than the ecliptic, and the autumn full moons are riding higher. The precession of the lunar orbital nodes are retrograde meaning that they fall back relative to the Moon's motion along the ecliptic (plus or minus the 5.1 deg), this leads to a slightly shorter "tropical" month than sidereal month. This is why lunar and solar eclipses tend to fall about a month earlier each year, as the nodes occur a bit earlier than the previous year (the Moon has to be close to a nodal position for there to be an eclipse opportunity; if the nodal dates are displaced from solar alignments, an interval can pass without an eclipse or at least without a total eclipse).

oriel36

It is much easier and more productive to work with the original framework in antiquity where a new grouping of stars appeared at dawn every 10 days ( the Decans) as the foundations of timekeeping than work with the more recent framework of Ptolemy.

In 21st century terms, the transition of the stars from left to right of the stationary/central Sun and parallel to the orbital plane was registered in antiquity as a transition of a star or planet from an evening to dawn appearance but quite dramatic today using a satellite free from any daily rotational component -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4AEluR-CBu4&t=60s

The location of a star to the central Sun and its glare provides the annual reference point for the orbital position of the Earth in its journey around the Sun. In antiquity they used the observation that the star Sirius skips a first annual appearance after the 4th cycle of 365 days therefore the parent observation for all timekeeping is 1461 days for 4 years or 1461 rotations for 4 orbital circuits. It really is a jewel of human innovation for those who make the effort to match what our ancestors did.

The 21st century innovation is the ability to peer towards the inner solar system by making the Sun the stationary reference point that it actually is, at least for solar system structure. Events behind the Sun close to the Sun's glare are now seen in permanent solar eclipse conditions so it is possible to resolve issues that other generations of astronomers could not.

There will always be those who conjure up contrived notions but I trust an Irish audience to be considerate and fair - in this case making that simple adjustment where the Earth moves causing the stars to change position from left to right of the stationary Sun. On this basis, observers expand their perspectives to referring celestial objects to the central Sun and a moving Earth rather than pasting the objects on a celestial sphere universe.


All the forensics of what went wrong can wait, the issue is making new perspectives more accessible to a wider audience. It is also crucial for understanding the dynamics behind the seasons and in meteorology.

M.T. Cranium

I think an Irish audience can probably tell where things went wrong.

oriel36

M.T. Cranium wrote: »

I think an Irish audience can probably tell where things went wrong.

I imagine that many are capable of making the transition to the more productive framework where the stars transition from left to right of a central/stationary Sun due to the orbital motion of the Earth and parallel to the orbital plane.

https://sol24.net/data/html/SOHO/C3/96H/VIDEO/

https://www.skyledge.net/Regulus-M44.jpg

https://theskylive.com/planetarium?objects=sun-moon-c2020f3-mercury-venus-mars-jupiter-saturn-uranus-neptune-pluto&localdata=51.48%7C0%7CGreenwich%2C+United+Kingdom%7CEurope%2FLondon%7C0&obj=c2020f3&h=12&m=15&date=2020-07-17#ra|7.6974701803474765|dec|26.031450313098624|fov|50

The beehive cluster comes into view towards the end of the time lapse as it will move from an evening to dawn appearance over the coming weeks.

Without acceptance that the stars change position due to the Earth's orbital motion, Irish people will be stuck with celestial sphere descriptions and jargon favoured by you and other celestial sphere identification enthusiasts.


Within your realm of short term weather forecasting you are fine and enjoy the deserved appreciation of those here in the forum but expand into the wider perspectives of climate and weather on a foundation of planetary dynamics then this admiration shades off into exposure of many Irish sycophants. In this respect you are no better or worse than anyone else by attempting to bluff your way with astronomical terms while lacking the solid perspectives which underline them including the many modifications necessary to provide clearer explanations for a wider audience.

Oneiric 3

oriel36 wrote: »

Without acceptance that the stars change position due to the Earth's orbital motion, Irish people will be stuck with celestial sphere descriptions and jargon favoured by you and other celestial sphere identification enthusiasts.