New children's hospital

Bowie

Bowie wrote: »

There's a link there. Money mismanaged, finer details hid.

Is it all incompetence or is there old school crony fraud happening? Not saying there is, we don't have the finer details.
Also I cannot believe these public servants are so incompetent. I would imagine it's the system they operate within. I do not believe good people are allowing this to happen because they aren't willing or capable of sounding the alarm when the money paid out starts getting silly.
This harks back to lack of accountability. Not my problem, pass the buck, and on and on until the media get a sniff.

Having had some(limited) experience of public procurement, and listening to the shenanigans going on, I reckon most of them are doing their best, the system of awarding contracts , and claims resolution is stacked against the exchequer. Tbrow in political interference, its a recipe for disaster.

James Brown

MikeOxsgreen wrote: »

Having had some(limited) experience of public procurement, and listening to the shenanigans going on, I reckon most of them are doing their best, the system of awarding contracts , and claims resolution is stacked against the exchequer. Tbrow in political interference, its a recipe for disaster.

I would expect they are. In my experience albeit on a smaller scale, contractors need submit a reasoned estimate and laundry list to back up said costs. I would guess the problems lie in the grey areas of the nod and wink not the public servant processing the outcome.

salonfire

gifted wrote: »

Dogs on the street knew this was going to happen when BAM got the contract....

That the Board would generate 10,000 new drawing since January 2019, but only if BAM was the contractor? If any other contractor was there instead, the Board would not be making all these changes? They are doing so because it is BAM?

You'll have to explain that one again

salonfire

BAM have every right to put in these claims for extra costs.

If the design keeps changing and the Board don't know what they want, that's not BAM's fault.

political analyst

Why have the costs of this project risen so much?

political analyst

I remember reading about the dispute about where the new hospital was going to be constructed. Therefore, the warning signs were visible long before construction even commenced. This hospital is yet another 'sacred cow' in Irish society. Is it about overcompensating for the horror that was inflicted on children throughout the history of the State?

daheff

joseywhales wrote: »

I do not understand why such a contract does not put the burden of risk on the company that gets the contract. Like extra costs and overrun, should just be the legal responsibility of a contractor no?

If you make those kind of clauses part of the contract, then you either pay a huge premium or find contractors don't agree to the contract.

Especially when the contractor knows there are problems and stuff missing with the contract in the first place.

ChikiChiki

salonfire wrote: »

BAM have every right to put in these claims for extra costs.

If the design keeps changing and the Board don't know what they want, that's not BAM's fault.

Agree. An incompetent government and project committee is playing right into the hands of shrewd operators like BAM who will milk them for all they have.

Requirements should have been nailed down at the start and these deviations are obscene. Brought to you by the same Civil Service clowns making similar fook ups over and over again with no accountability.

political analyst

Here is a summary of an article written by Professor Sean Barrett of Trinity College for today's Indo about the National Children's Hospital (NCH) debacle:


Building a new hospital in Ireland brings together 3 main dangers for the wider society:

1. A low-productivity, high-cost construction sector, as per the Build Report.

2. A high cost, low-productivity health-sector, as per the Depratment of Health's own annual data series.

3. One of the weakest public expenditure appraisal systems in the world, as reported by the IMF in 2017.

A combination of those 3 leads to cost-overruns and delayed completion dates. 2 bizarre cost-increasing rules top-up the problems: Some on the public construction bonanza are paid more as the total cost of the project increases and are paid more the longer the delays in a completing the project.

Projects such as NCH also have the 'Other People's Money' (OPM) problem. Big budgets boost egos and career prospects of high-spending bureaucracies. This promotes the Edifice Complex in both health and higher education. The supreme accolade was awarded to the head of a UK university who built "the empire on which the concrete never sets".

Low productivity in both construction and health was aggravated by large spending increases without reform in the October Budget. Our weak public expenditure appraisal system has fobbed off the IMF reforms proposed in 2017. The NCH debacle shows a totally inadequate project-appraisal sysstem.

2 reforms are urgent:

1. Implement Article 33 of the Constitution, which states there shall be a Comptroller and Auditor Genereal to control all disbursements and audit all accounts of moneys administered by or under the authority of the Oireachtas. It must become the norm that the Comptroller controls all disbursements and audits all accounts. In many cases the Public Expenditure Horse has already bolted by the time the Comptroller gets around to a problem area. Spending bureaucracies maximise spending by their departments because that's what we reward. They're ineffective in project appraisal.

2. Repeal the Ministers and Secretaries Act, 1924, which says all of a government department's actions are deemed to be those of the minister. In practicse, this is impossible tut it allows all those directly involved in public spending to shift the blame on a mninister who is not the person who got input prices and quantities wrong.

suicide_circus

The money spent on the hospital is loose change in the context of lockdown spending/borrowing. At least we actually have an asset afterwards.

SEPT 23 1989

just wait until the fit out costs start

gifted

Just wait until they have to staff it

astrofool

gifted wrote: »

Just wait until they have to staff it

Just wait till the staff try and commute to work!

Floppybits

astrofool wrote: »

Just wait till the staff try and commute to work!

They will just keep everyone in lockdown so that the staff can commute to work in the hospital.

ChikiChiki

It may well be the costliest white elephant the state has ever seen.

The way BAM are building it, could well become another Berlin Brandenberg. A decade late and well over budget.

political analyst

gifted wrote: »

Just wait until they have to staff it

The staff would be transferred from Crumlin, Temple Street and Tallaght and services would be consolidated at the new hospital.

smurgen

What is the actual status of it? I've tried to look for completion dates and budgets amounts and there's alot of conflicting reports.

salonfire

astrofool wrote: »

Just wait till the staff try and commute to work!

Surrounded by public transport, how will they ever be able to manage.

Amirani

astrofool wrote: »

Just wait till the staff try and commute to work!

All the staff in James's, the largest adult hospital in the State, manage just fine. It's one of the best served public transport locations in the country.

Ireland2020

Amirani wrote: »

All the staff in James's, the largest adult hospital in the State, manage just fine. It's one of the best served public transport locations in the country.

"best served public transport locations in the country"

Hasnt really got any competition does it?

Builders/Contractors/Planners etc all making a fortune out of this shambles of a hospital. Thats the FG way

ChikiChiki

Whatever about it being well served by public transport it is still an abysmal choice of location. James Connolly would have been 10x more suitable.