Intellectuals weigh in on Cancel Culture

rossie1977

rossie1977 wrote: »

Regardless who was president on 9/11 the American people would have wanted revenge and a war was happening either way. The vast majority of the House and Senate voted in favour of that war let's not forget.

Yes certain American companies benefitted from the war like Halliburton which has ties to Cheney but Bush never went out of his way to flaunt his own personal business while president.

It certainly helps when you lie to everyone about who is responsible, including creating evidence to support your agenda.

Chris_Heilong

rossie1977 wrote: »

Bile..what bile? The media treat Trump like a fun celebrity. Not a single scandal is focused on for more than 24 hours. We find out Trump paid off a porn star while his wife was pregnant. That one story would have destroyed any previous president and the media would focus on it for months.. Trump no, forgotten about following day.

The same media had Hillarys emails on front page of NY Times 13 out of the last 14 days of 16 election season. .

I was watching July 4th CNN coverage for 5 minutes and the reporter said Trump surrounds himself with 10 times as many flags as any other president. Instead of that flicking a switch in the reporters mind they moved onto next topic.



If you don't trust historians then who exactly do you trust?

What exactly did Obama do to increase divisions?



Far worse.

What Trump has done has damaged the institutions of power for decades. As said its now very easy for a smarter person than Trump to just waltz in and become the US version of Putin or Orban because the Republicans have shown they will stick by their guy regardless what he or she does. Trump claims he has totally immunity as President and the Republicans are actually implementing this..this opens the door to absolute chaos in the future.

Bush released his tax returns.
Bush did not ask Russia for help to win election
Bush didn't use office of president to further his business interests.
Bush did not hire family members to work in White House.
Bush did not call the press the enemy of the people
Bush did not gas asylum seekers at the border
Bush did not gas Americans so he could hold a bible upside down.
Bush did not tell American born women to go back to their own country
Bush did not ban Muslims entering the US
Bush did not call Mexicans dogs and rapists
Bush did not ask a foreign country to dig up dirt on his political rival
Bush did not sign an order so that civilian deaths are no longer reported
Bush did not go out of his way to rollback all his predecessors orders and laws.
Bush did not ignore science
Bush did not call nazis marching with tiki torches 'fine people'.
Bush did not quote fascist dictators in earnest.
Bush did not leave hundreds of important government roles empty and then employ specific people in departments like Pruitt in EPA for sole purpose of destroying them from within.

You are one for the conspiracy theories arent you.

Skylinehead

rossie1977 wrote: »

Regardless who was president on 9/11 the American people would have wanted revenge and a war was happening either way. The vast majority of the House and Senate voted in favour of that war let's not forget.

That war was Afghanistan. I'm talking about Iraq.

You know, the one they made up false WMD claims about, ignored UN inspectors, etc.

Bush stacked his cabinet with the likes of Cheney and Rumsfeld for a reason.

jimgoose

TheValeyard wrote: »

...He also shot a 78 year old man in the face after mistaking him for a duck.

A friend of mine actually did that too, about twenty years back. The shootee was only about 65 at the time, and he took a half-dozen 12-bore birdshot pellets to the scalp, but still... :pac:

joe40

Skylinehead wrote: »

That war was Afghanistan. I'm talking about Iraq.

You know, the one they made up false WMD claims about, ignored UN inspectors, etc.

Bush stacked his cabinet with the likes of Cheney and Rumsfeld for a reason.

I don't think you're going to get many people defending GW Bush. I certainly wouldn't.
The Afghan war was directly due to 9/11 but the Iraq war was also tied up with that war in many American's mind.

It was all sold as the war on terror.

Clarence Boddiker

rossie1977 wrote: »

Bile..what bile? The media treat Trump like a fun celebrity. Not a single scandal is focused on for more than 24 hours. We find out Trump paid off a porn star while his wife was pregnant. That one story would have destroyed any previous president and the media would focus on it for months.. Trump no, forgotten about following day.

The same media had Hillarys emails on front page of NY Times 13 out of the last 14 days of 16 election season. .

I was watching July 4th CNN coverage for 5 minutes and the reporter said Trump surrounds himself with 10 times as many flags as any other president. Instead of that flicking a switch in the reporters mind they moved onto next topic.



If you don't trust historians then who exactly do you trust?

What exactly did Obama do to increase divisions?



Far worse.

What Trump has done has damaged the institutions of power for decades. As said its now very easy for a smarter person than Trump to just waltz in and become the US version of Putin or Orban because the Republicans have shown they will stick by their guy regardless what he or she does. Trump claims he has totally immunity as President and the Republicans are actually implementing this..this opens the door to absolute chaos in the future.

Bush released his tax returns.
Bush did not ask Russia for help to win election
Bush didn't use office of president to further his business interests.
Bush did not hire family members to work in White House.
Bush did not call the press the enemy of the people
Bush did not gas asylum seekers at the border
Bush did not gas Americans so he could hold a bible upside down.
Bush did not tell American born women to go back to their own country
Bush did not ban Muslims entering the US
Bush did not call Mexicans dogs and rapists
Bush did not ask a foreign country to dig up dirt on his political rival
Bush did not sign an order so that civilian deaths are no longer reported
Bush did not go out of his way to rollback all his predecessors orders and laws.
Bush did not ignore science
Bush did not call nazis marching with tiki torches 'fine people'.
Bush did not quote fascist dictators in earnest.
Bush did not leave hundreds of important government roles empty and then employ specific people in departments like Pruitt in EPA for sole purpose of destroying them from within.

Yeah Bush just lied to the world in order to invade several countries, which led to their complete destruction, 100's of thousands massacred, blown to bits, tens of thousands of children killed, the wealth and resources of said nations stolen.

Yeah you don't really have a high horse to stand on here do you?

shootermacg

There's an easy fix for most trial by social media cases. Make it illegal to talk about a person and post recordings or any kind about that person on social media.

By all means report people and send information to the police, if they've done something illegal. Otherwise, get on with your own life and live and let live.

Overheal

Why are the anti cancel brigade still trying to cancel Colin Kaepernick? My timeline is full of calls to boycott Disney now from these types.

ancapailldorcha

shootermacg wrote: »

There's an easy fix for most trial by social media cases. Make it illegal to talk about a person and post recordings or any kind about that person on social media.

By all means report people and send information to the police, if they've done something illegal. Otherwise, get on with your own life and live and let live.

So censorship. We can't talk about anyone. You might as well just ban social media.

Chris_Heilong

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

So censorship. We can't talk about anyone. You might as well just ban social media.

That sound like a fantastic idea, the world was better before social media gave activists a platform to reach the world.

ancapailldorcha

Chris_Heilong wrote: »

That sound like a fantastic idea, the world was better before social media gave activists a platform to reach the world.

Sounds like fascism to me. Ban companies the far right disagree with politically.

joe40

Clarence Boddiker wrote: »

Yeah Bush just lied to the world in order to invade several countries, which led to their complete destruction, 100's of thousands massacred, blown to bits, tens of thousands of children killed, the wealth and resources of said nations stolen.

Yeah you don't really have a high horse to stand on here do you?

Whether Trump is worse Bush is a moot point, both are republican presidents and supported by the same people.
If a defense of Trump is that he isn't as bad as Bush, it is pretty lame.

Trump would fully support those wars, so we can assume if the same situation arose he would behave in the exact same way. He goaded North Korea in a totally unnecessary and dangerous fashion.

ancapailldorcha

Overheal wrote: »

Why are the anti cancel brigade still trying to cancel Colin Kaepernick? My timeline is full of calls to boycott Disney now from these types.

That's it in a nutshell. It's only about free speech for them. They'd be happy to see socialists, liberals, activists and anyone else they disagree with silenced.

Limpy

The Unabombers manifesto goes hard against left wing extremism. Worth a read.

shootermacg

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

So censorship. We can't talk about anyone. You might as well just ban social media.

I was thinking that, or at least make the companies personally responsible. What do I think about the vast majority of nasty social media posters?

To use a quote from a great movie:

"I think of a man and I take away reason and accountability."

ancapailldorcha

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Sounds like fascism to me. Ban companies the far right disagree with politically.

so you believe Chris_Heilong to be far right then? Since you are responding to his suggestion of removing social media...

joe40

joe40 wrote: »

Whether Trump is worse Bush is a moot point, both are republican presidents and supported by the same people.

Except considering the votes generated, they were supported by different people.

If a defense of Trump is that he isn't as bad as Bush, it is pretty lame.

Except it's not a defense of Trump. Nobody is trying to defend Trump.

Once more its the case, you're either for or against, no middle ground is allowed.

Trump would fully support those wars, so we can assume if the same situation arose he would behave in the exact same way. He goaded North Korea in a totally unnecessary and dangerous fashion.

Sure he did. He's a loose cannon, and a strong advocate for the use of US military power.

This isn't about us saying who is worse. It's about others stating that Trump is the worst. Why? Simply because he's an ass, and manages to press everyones buttons? As opposed to lying to the world, and starting a war that completely destabilized the whole Middle East, and having no desire for any kind of exit strategy?

ancapailldorcha

Deleted User wrote: »

so you believe Chris_Heilong to be far right then? Since you are responding to his suggestion of removing social media...

The far right hate these companies and he'd be happy to see them banned. It seems to be a common theme here to demonise demographics that the far right hate like Muslims and liberals. That's why I used the term "far right".

CtevenSrowder

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

The far right hate these companies and he'd be happy to see them banned. It seems to be a common theme here to demonise demographics that the far right hate like Muslims and liberals. That's why I used the term "far right".

A tiny minority of people 'here' 'demonise... Muslims and liberals'.

wildeside

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

That's it in a nutshell. It's only about free speech for them. They'd be happy to see socialists, liberals, activists and anyone else they disagree with silenced.

Can't you see that it's extremists on either end of the spectrum wanting to shut down and silence anyone that disagrees with them? Surely you do not think this is a uniquely far-right (and not also far-left) phenomenon?

AbusesToilets

I find part of the conversation surrounding the current discourse in society that doesn't get enough attention, is the manipulation by corporate interests of the various groups. The increasing divisions and fractured nature of society serves as a perfect stalking horse for business to profit as usual. Keep the peasants fighting amongst themselves, while the rich rake it in hand over fist.

Trump is simply the canditate perfected for them. The avarice and profiteering that was somewhat hidden with Bush, now doesn't need to be anymore, as they can count on the poor tearing each other apart in partisan fighting instead of paying attention.

joe40

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Except considering the votes generated, they were supported by different people.



Except it's not a defense of Trump. Nobody is trying to defend Trump.

Once more its the case, you're either for or against, no middle ground is allowed.



Sure he did. He's a loose cannon, and a strong advocate for the use of US military power.

This isn't about us saying who is worse. It's about others stating that Trump is the worst. Why? Simply because he's an ass, and manages to press everyones buttons? As opposed to lying to the world, and starting a war that completely destabilized the whole Middle East, and having no desire for any kind of exit strategy?

I'm certainly not about defending Bush, but to my mind Trump is still a worse President. I shudder to think what Trump's response would be if there was a 9/11 type attack. He is the only president that I could imagine using the nuclear option.

Anyway the discussion is not about who is worse, Trump or Bush. Both have an awful lot to answer for in my opinion.
But for sheer stupidity Trump wins hands down.

kowloon

Bonniedog wrote: »

Nor are they familiar with Soviet science which had as one of its heroes Lysenko who thought that man made changes to plants and animals would be inherited over a number of generations. Geneticists who said this was medieval nonsense were sent to camps and murdered.

Lysenkoism was basically Lamarckism, so he didn't even come up with it himself.

ancapailldorcha

wildeside wrote: »

Can't you see that it's extremists on either end of the spectrum wanting to shut down and silence anyone that disagrees with them? Surely you do not think this is a uniquely far-right (and not also far-left) phenomenon?

I don't think it's uniquely far right in the slightest. I've never said that it was.

Bonniedog

kowloon wrote: »

Lysenkoism was basically Lamarckism, so he didn't even come up with it himself.

The French didn't murder people who disagreed with Lamarck

wildeside

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

I don't think it's uniquely far right in the slightest. I've never said that it was.

Fair enough. I think all reasonable people can agree on this.

Bonniedog

AbusesToilets wrote: »

the manipulation by corporate interests of the various groups. T
Trump is simply the canditate perfected for them.

You are clearly not up to speed on the attitude of corporate America to Trump!

FB and Twitter and Google have been unremittingly anti Trump and there is currently a boycott by dozens of major corporations of FB on the grounds that it is not being even more censorious.

ancapailldorcha

wildeside wrote: »

Fair enough. I think all reasonable people can agree on this.

Absolutely. On the left hand side, it's the logical end point of the far left's tireless crusade to invent ever more contrived artificial identities for people which are now coming into conflict with each other.

LostinBlanch

AbusesToilets wrote: »

I find part of the conversation surrounding the current discourse in society that doesn't get enough attention, is the manipulation by corporate interests of the various groups. The increasing divisions and fractured nature of society serves as a perfect stalking horse for business to profit as usual. Keep the peasants fighting amongst themselves, while the rich rake it in hand over fist.

Trump is simply the canditate perfected for them. The avarice and profiteering that was somewhat hidden with Bush, now doesn't need to be anymore, as they can count on the poor tearing each other apart in partisan fighting instead of paying attention.

This is it in a nutshell. Look at the fact that the majority of US government funds for small business end up in the coffers of large corporations.

As for Trump, well he's never been behind the door when it comes to taking taxpayers money. This Reddit thread shows how companies linked to him receive large taxpayer funds forgivable loans. You can be sure that it's happening elsewhere as well. Bad actors, never let a good crisis go to waste.

SlowMotion321

AbusesToilets wrote: »

I find part of the conversation surrounding the current discourse in society that doesn't get enough attention, is the manipulation by corporate interests of the various groups. The increasing divisions and fractured nature of society serves as a perfect stalking horse for business to profit as usual. Keep the peasants fighting amongst themselves, while the rich rake it in hand over fist.

Trump is simply the canditate perfected for them. The avarice and profiteering that was somewhat hidden with Bush, now doesn't need to be anymore, as they can count on the poor tearing each other apart in partisan fighting instead of paying attention.

Yeah but.....oh wait... ah **** it your right!