PV Feed In Tariff

rushfan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120054976#Comment_120054976

Yes, ours was applied recently, now 310 in credit.

graememk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120057047#Comment_120057047

The nc6 is meant to be done by your installer, Seai need a copy to be sent to them too as part of the grant. Unless it was a self install it should be already done.

And then the esbn send the supplier how much you have "exported" be it deemed or measured.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120057078#Comment_120057078

You aren't eligible for a smart meter because your on a day/night! I'm in the same position, day/night and expect the deemed export on the next bill.. (should be about 2-300 euro)

yankinlk

Don't trust that your supplier has sent on the nc6. Even if they did send it in, the esb are known for losing it and telling no one.

Check the thread for the email I think it's esbnetworks@esb.ie

The suppliers will only pay on date of nc6 being filed, not the install date!

Taxburden carrier

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120057158#Comment_120057158

I have a day/night meter. Are you saying it won’t be replaced with a smart one when they upgrade my area?

graememk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120057477#Comment_120057477

I am saying that.

Currently they actually can't.

Because if they move you to a smart meter, what tariff are you put on? Day night tariffs don't exist on a smart meter. (Don't get them confused with smart time of use tariffs)

Only people getting a smart meter currently are ones on a 24 hrs tariff.

Taxburden carrier

it would be great if that happens. However will the installer give a damn what arrangement I have with my energy supplier and install it anyway?

Bobeagleburger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120057540#Comment_120057540

Stick a note on your meter box to not install one.

Taxburden carrier

So if I don’t they’ll install one regardless. I’ve seen on another site that if you refuse a smart one that you’ll be charged €200 if you want one down the line, maybe just scaremongering.

In any case any clarity on smart meters from providers is non existent.

Thanks for the feedback 🙂

graememk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120057594#Comment_120057594

you'll just not be on the list for replacement. Not yet anyway. Not until they come up with a method to upgrade the D/N to a smart meter without taking you off the current tariff.

redmagic68

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120057705#Comment_120057705

I really don’t get the issue with the day/night meter upgrade.

If the meter can record what is being used and at what time why not just offer everyone on the day/nights the same tariff on a smart meter. Then you get measured fit etc and still have everyone on a smart meter

only thing I can think off is that they’d be obliged by law to offer everyone the same plan regardless of whether they had previously had a day/night and thus won’t do it that way.

Or am I missing something completely obvious?

graememk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120058379#Comment_120058379

Yes. That's the simple option... But it's not possible/not offered/whatever.

By not offering it, they've backed themselves into a corner.

Compounding the issue is that the day/night tariffs are cheaper than the equivalent smart tariffs.

slave1

The mind boggles that a super duper all singing and dancing Smart Meter can't handle Day/Night in the same fashion as decades old offerings.

I don't think anyone here believes that and that lack of trust speaks volumes against transparency and trust in the ESB Networks, they must think there are 5m fools at their disposal

ECO_Mental

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120057500#Comment_120057500

@Taxburden carrier

Actually I had an interesting conversation over the webchat with EI a few weeks ago asking again can they switch my day/night meter to a smart meter. Once again it all depends on the person who you talk to to and know what they are doing.

This guy said that what I need to do was to move my tariff to Value Reward Night Saver Tariff and this is some sort of virtual smart tariff where they will bill me for peak rates but it will be at day rates so in effect I would be on a smart tarriff and wont be negatively impacted. This then will will put me on a priority list to get the smart meter installed. I was in the process of switching and giving him the go ahead to do it and he looked for my current meter reads to do it. I was in work so didn't have them so he said just call back that evening and we would get it done.

Obviously I call back that evening and the person I talked to didn't have a clue what this was all about and told me that was impossible.....😡 I gave up and meant to try again another day but never got around to it. will try again later today.

Here is a snapshot of my conversation with EI

graememk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120058802#Comment_120058802

That's interesting, a temporary hidden tariff to allow the move..

ECO_Mental

Just realized the screen shot I took of the conversation didn't have the part about not being negatively impacted...

Edit the screen shot did just when you click on the picture to zoom in you need to scroll to the left....

KCross

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120059094#Comment_120059094

I’d be wary of it. I’d imagine that once you get the smart meter they’d move you to a regular smart tariff and you would also be boxed in in 12 months time when you try to switch… they will all see you have a smart meter and only offer smart tariffs.

I’m hanging onto my d/n meter until I have no other choice.

And that EI value plan isn’t exactly cheap at 31c/15c for d/n rates compared to others (I’m paying 23/7!)

ECO_Mental

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120059317#Comment_120059317

When did you sign up to the 23/7 rate....I presume its the Energia EV tarriff. I don think you can get anywhere near that now.

DC999

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120059630#Comment_120059630

I was on to Energia a few months back looking at options. Agent told me the night rate of about 8c went end-of-life around mid Sept. Their revised night rate at the time was due to be ~13c. All inc. vat. I'm not on a D/N meter but asked as am due to change.

graememk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120059317#Comment_120059317

Oh for me, hell no.

I have now 40kwh of batteries and about 20-30kwh of heat storage.. I ain't exporting anything!

DN for the foreseeable future for me.

But what I'm saying there is an actual route in EI, but it has to be initiated by the customer.. for now.

bullit_dodger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120058734#Comment_120058734

I think it's more that they want to introduce Smart meters where it will effect the most change(s) quickest. Why prioritize D/N folks or even want to get them moved? We're already "load shifting" to night time, makes no sense to spend time and effort now on moving this demographic when there are plenty of others out there that they can move from Day -> "off peak" to help with shaving peak demand. That's why we're the last to move to Smart meters

No technical reason whatsoever why a Smart meter can't do a D/N tariff, and my hope is that they (the suppliers) will come up with a competitive tariff when they start to migrate the D/N folks en masse.

slave1

Don't trust them, even if they do offer a great D/N rate I'd sit back for a year or so and see how it pans out, wouldn't be surprised if they make good offers and then withdraw D/N only to include a penal 5pm-7pm rate

kabakuyu

I have a sneaking suspicion that D/N tariffs will go the way of the dodo, is it not government policy that we all must pay more for the peak hours between 5-7pm, surely the days of D/N are numbered, utility companies will make more on smart plans.

https://www.euractiv.com/section/energy-environment/news/ireland-minister-floats-higher-fees-during-peak-hours-amid-winter-blackout-fears/

KCross

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120060584#Comment_120060584

This is exactly my point too. Once you have that smart meter in, you are boxed in. They will screw you from there and it also limits your choices massively in 12 months time when you want to switch. d/n meter ftw!

yankinlk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120060938#Comment_120060938

I agree with you 100% D/N days are numbered. sad beuase the ONLY folks trying to reduce consumption are people with day/night meters.

I think that everyne else has made zero.zero effort to reduce their compsumtion. The majority of folks dont know what uses electricity or how much and refuse to reduce - they just pay more for it on the smart meter. And those folks that ARE on a smartplan - simply have no idea that is costing them more money - they just got tricked into signing up for one.

bullit_dodger

Couldn't agree more lads - cept maybe that people on D/N are the ONLY people trying to reduce consumption. I do think that there's a lot out there on normal day rates trying to reduce but there are many who aren't even aware that you can get a D/N. I had to educate a few of the lads in work (engineers too!)

As far as I know, there is no technical reason whatsoever why don't they support D/N tariffs on smart meters?- but if you go back to the reason why smart meters are being introduced....(and I don't subscribe to the conspiracy theories that it's to gouge more money from customers like you/me) it's been shown across Europe where they've been deployed that they save on average 4-5% off the peak load in the evening time. That can be the difference between a power station being built ... or not.

Those of us on D/N meters have sort of done the load moving to night time already, so there's a good logical reason why D/N meters are being handled last in the migration to Smart meters, they don't gain in the short term moving us. It's not the suppliers who are pushing smart meters, it's the ESB networks.

These peak hours as yankink mentions above are pricey - and for some they don't or can't move load to nighttime....but then there are many out there who'll whinge about "Ohh I don't want my washing machine on at 9pm", those people need to "suck it up" :-)

slave1

And with move away from Oil/Coal etc to Heat Pumps the Gov needs to collect more taxes, same with move from petrol/oil to EV. Smart Meter logs will help identify Heat Pump/EV charging and potential route to taxation

yankinlk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120061144#Comment_120061144

Appreciate your positivity but I don't share the view that anyone will reduce their consumption without a forced hand. the technology we use must be greener AND cheaper or things will remain the same.

I don't think it's a conspiracy theory that smart meters are gouging customers. They have been rolled out with higher costs across the board. And marketed as "hey these new meters are green and better for you and the climate come on get one...."

And as you say the peak rate is a time when literally no one can shift habits like cooking. I would be OK with that, if off peak was offered cheaper... But it's not it's still higher on smart meters.

redmagic68

The only logical reason for not bringing them in across the board has to be unit cost. If they give day/night customers smart meters and allow us keep night rates they probably have to give everyone the same rates regardless.

then your into a situation where people do what Esb networks want and migrate usage to night and suppliers bottom lines suffer.

so if they’re not prepared to reduce night rates to the level of day/night meter rate the only way they can look out for the people on those day/night meters now is to leave the meters in place. Of course that is supposing they wish to look after people with heat pumps and ev’s etc. , which is probably doubtful but maybe there aren’t enough people using the more carbon friendly systems yet so we might remain as is for a few years while more transition.

all that said if rates keep increasing as they are FiT rates for high usage customers will become irrelevant as we’ll need our own batteries to try offset the crazy smart plan rates with our own generation or look for alternative heating sources. Either way 25c or more for fit will make little difference for most after you pay your 50% marginal rate.

24hr rates will hit 50c shortly say average usage across the year for a HP house is 20 kWh daily that’s leaves you an annual bill of €3650 per annum and I reckon those usage figures are low for an electric house at 7500 units some will have used over 1mWh just last month alone.

bullit_dodger

But it's not SSE, Energia, Bord gais etc who are bringing them in, forcing them on end users, it's ESB Networks and they don't set pricing. Well I guess they kind of do in their own sister company "Electric Ireland", but generally ESB networks have nothing to do with the pricing. ESB networks want to see them in place because with dynamic pricing models, it's been statistically proven to reduce the peak loading due to (effectively) penalizing people using high load devices (washing machines etc) at dinner time. That's not to say that suppliers aren't taking the micky a little though.

I do think that loads of people can and do modify their behavior though. Not enough sadly, but plenty of people even 20-30 years ago using draft excluders for the doors, installing double glazing, turning down the thermostat

For some lighthearted humor.... ESB 'Night Saver' - Bing video

Though it'll take a mindset change of knowing that your tumble dryer at 5pm will cost you €1, or wait till 8pm and it's 50cents. Do that enough times and the message will get through..... eventually.

redmagic68

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120062301#Comment_120062301

I don’t think the various arms work in a vacuum. Esb networks surely discuss policy with both the department of the environment and the providers when deciding where to go.