Landlord Doesn't Provide References

Lux23

We have been living in the same place five years, and we were planning to buy, but with all the uncertainty we have decided to move to someone bigger until we have a better idea of what the market will do. But our landlord has just told us that he doesn't give out references ever because he got in trouble providing one before.

I have a reference from a property I left in 2014, we have secure jobs and references, although my partner can't get his updated at the moment as HR won't send electronic copies in his place. We also have a big chunk of savings. But I am worried no recent landlord reference will be a big red flag.

What is the best way around this?

crossmolinalad

Ive moved 6 times in 15 years and never got references
Showed new landlords the rentbooks and always got their house

listermint

What trouble did he get into? Im not sure what level of trouble one could get into a bad phonecall a snarky text... ??

He can simply say x has rented from x date to x date with no issues.

LeineGlas

listermint wrote: »

What trouble did he get into? Im not sure what level of trouble one could get into a bad phonecall a snarky text... ??

He can simply say x has rented from x date to x date with no issues.

He mostly likely isn't declaring rental income so does not want anything on record.

s1ippy

Could you not write a brief letter stating the address of the property, your occupation of it and that you were satisfactory tenants during this period and get him to sign it? That's all that is required.

Lux23

s1ippy wrote: »

Could you not write a brief letter stating the address of the property, your occupation of it and that you were satisfactory tenants during this period and get him to sign it? That's all that is required.

I suggested that and he said no.

Mrs OBumble

You can ask if he will do a verbal reference?

Again he can say no, there is no requirement to provide references and increasingly people won't.

In this case, you'll simply need to look for a place that will take you anyway.

You could try personal references instead, some may accept them.

Lux23

It was a verbal reference I asked for as I know he has some literacy issues, so didn't want to stress him out and then I said I would write the letter and he said no way.

I think he is more worried about us leaving to be honest.

Gumbo

LeineGlas wrote: »

He mostly likely isn't declaring rental income so does not want anything on record.

That’s a very big conclusion to jump to without any shred of evidence at all.

Childish comment.

Eric Cartman

Gumbo wrote: »

That’s a very big conclusion to jump to without any shred of evidence at all.

Childish comment.

+1 , theres a horrible undercurrent in this forum at times of everyone assuming every landlord is a tax evader.

Lux23

Gumbo wrote: »

That’s a very big conclusion to jump to without any shred of evidence at all.

Childish comment.

My landlord is definitely a tax evader, but I don't think the reference would have any impact there.

MacDanger

Just write the letter yourself, get a friend to sign it and give the friend's number making sure he/she has the relevant details. Best to use a friend who's not friends with you on social media

JimmyVik

Just put your landlords name as a reference and put his phone number beside it.
Anyone who rings him and asks if he rented from you he will just have to say yes.

Lux23

Lux23 wrote: »

My landlord is definitely a tax evader, but I don't think the reference would have any impact there.

You must have seen the accounts he submitted to Revenue for taxation, did he just hand them to you, or did he leave them on your coffee table?

Countryboy2018

JimmyVik wrote: »

Just put your landlords name as a reference and put his phone number beside it.
Anyone who rings him and asks if he rented from you he will just have to say yes.

He doesn’t have to say yes nor does he have to answer any question from someone unknown to him.

Claw Hammer

Dav010 wrote: »

You must have seen the accounts he submitted to Revenue for taxation, did he just hand them to you, or did he leave them on your coffee table?

How do you know he submitted any accounts?

Claw Hammer

Claw Hammer wrote: »

How do you know he submitted any accounts?

I don’t, but unless I know otherwise, I won’t accuse someone of wrongdoing.

I’m not the one making the allegation of definite tax evasion without proof to back it up.

Claw Hammer

Dav010 wrote: »

I don’t, but unless I know otherwise, I won’t accuse someone of wrongdoing.

I’m not the one making the allegation of definite tax evasion without proof to back it up.

You are assuming tax compliance without any proof to back it up.

Claw Hammer

Claw Hammer wrote: »

You are assuming tax compliance without any proof to back it up.

You might assume people are breaking the law without foundation, most people are the opposite, they take for granted a person is law abiding unless they have good reason to think otherwise. The op says his/her landlord is definitely evading tax, the only way to know that is to be privy to their tax return.

Using your logic, no one is tax compliant unless they can prove to you that they are. Interesting perspective.

Eric Cartman

Eric Cartman wrote: »

+1 , theres a horrible undercurrent in this forum at times of everyone assuming every landlord is a tax evader.

When the landlord is dodging paperwork I would day it's not that big a jump.

What possible reason could you have for refusing to provide an accurate reference?

MrMusician18

Dav010 wrote: »

You might assume people are breaking the law without foundation, most people are the opposite, they take for granted a person is law abiding unless they have good reason to think otherwise. The op says his/her landlord is definitely evading tax, the only way to know that is to be privy to their tax return.

Using your logic, no one is tax compliant unless they can prove to you that they are. Interesting perspective.

I wish revenue thought like that...

MrMusician18

MrMusician18 wrote: »

I wish revenue thought like that...

They do. Most people self declare without issue.

I have been audited twice. Both times they gave me a reasonable excuse for doing so.

Niner leprauchan

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

When the landlord is dodging paperwork I would day it's not that big a jump.

What possible reason could you have for refusing to provide an accurate reference?

Eh, maybe the last reference he provided was too honest. And it is a galactic jump from not providing a reference to tax evasion. Most employers will not now provide a reference beyond confirming start/end dates because it leaves them open to dispute with the employee.

Dav010

Dav010 wrote: »

Eh, maybe the last reference he provided was too honest. And it is a galactic jump from not providing a reference to tax evasion. Most employers will not now provide a reference beyond confirming start/end dates because it leaves them open to dispute with the employee.

But they still provide one.

We're all making assumptions here. None have the facts. We're assuming the op is a good tenant too.

Mrs OBumble

JimmyVik wrote: »

Just put your landlords name as a reference and put his phone number beside it.
Anyone who rings him and asks if he rented from you he will just have to say yes.

How many people answer the phone when they don't recognise the number?

OMM 0000

This thread is bizarre. So much weird advice and comments.

He has said he won't give a reference, either written or verbal, so that's the end of it.

As long as you can provide proof you paid your rent on time every month for the period you were there, that's all a bank will care about.

Claw Hammer

Dav010 wrote: »

You might assume people are breaking the law without foundation, most people are the opposite, they take for granted a person is law abiding unless they have good reason to think otherwise. The op says his/her landlord is definitely evading tax, the only way to know that is to be privy to their tax return.

Using your logic, no one is tax compliant unless they can prove to you that they are. Interesting perspective.

I make no assumptions either way until I have some evidence.

Car99

OMM 0000 wrote: »

This thread is bizarre. So much weird advice and comments.

He has said he won't give a reference, either written or verbal, so that's the end of it.

As long as you can provide proof you paid your rent on time every month for the period you were there, that's all a bank will care about.

Where did pleasing the bank come into it?

OMM 0000

Car99 wrote: »

Where did pleasing the bank come into it?

Read the first post. The reference is for a mortgage or temporary place in the meantime.

micah537

maybe he thinks that without a reference you won't find a place too easy so you'll have to stay.

cruizer101

OMM 0000 wrote: »

Read the first post. The reference is for a mortgage or temporary place in the meantime.

The reference is for letting a new bigger property, thats what they say in OP.

A bank couldn't care less about getting a reference, they deal in cold hard numbers.

OMM 0000

cruizer101 wrote: »

The reference is for letting a new bigger property, thats what they say in OP.

A bank couldn't care less about getting a reference, they deal in cold hard numbers.

OMM 0000 wrote: »

As long as you can provide proof you paid your rent on time every month for the period you were there, that's all a bank will care about.

A possibility which we should consider is the OP and her partner weren't good tenants.

Maybe the landlord isn't being lazy or difficult but rather is being passive aggressive about the whole thing.

OMM 0000

OMM 0000 wrote: »

A possibility which we should consider is the OP and her partner weren't good tenants.

Maybe the landlord isn't being lazy or difficult but rather is being passive aggressive about the whole thing.

That's some mighty fine dodging right there.

Move on, nothing to see. Definitely do NOT read the op again and then the posts about banks

OMM 0000

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

That's some mighty fine dodging right there.

Move on, nothing to see. Definitely do NOT read the op again and then the posts about banks

What are you talking about?

Having a bad day? Trying to let off some steam?

the_syco

JimmyVik wrote: »

Just put your landlords name as a reference and put his phone number beside it.
Anyone who rings him and asks if he rented from you he will just have to say yes.

Or he could tell the caller "go f**k yourself", and hangup.

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

What possible reason could you have for refusing to provide an accurate reference?

Perhaps the LL refuses to give a reference as the OP caused them issues?

OMM 0000

the_syco wrote: »

Perhaps the LL refuses to give a reference as the OP caused them issues?

I would say it's the obvious explanation.

I used to sublet an apartment and I'd say 50% of the tenants were problematic (not paying rent on time, refusing to stop smoking in the apartment, being absolutely filthy, etc.) (I've got some mad stories I could tell you).

And as a manager for a long time it's remarkable how so many people are in denial of their poor performance. When you come in late most days, take really long lunch breaks, surf the web for hours, lie about your work... how is it possible you can't accept your work has a problem?

So my point here is it's quite possible the landlord thinks these people are a headache and rather than give a bad reference he doesn't want to give any reference. That's often why references are refused. People tend to enjoy giving glowing references to people they think are good...

JimmyVik

the_syco wrote: »

Or he could tell the caller "go f**k yourself", and hangup.


Perhaps the LL refuses to give a reference as the OP caused them issues?

True that

Lux23

Dav010 wrote: »

You must have seen the accounts he submitted to Revenue for taxation, did he just hand them to you, or did he leave them on your coffee table?

He was prosecuted for tax evasion, his name was in the paper.

Lux23

OMM 0000 wrote: »

I would say it's the obvious explanation.

I used to sublet an apartment and I'd say 50% of the tenants were problematic (not paying rent on time, refusing to stop smoking in the apartment, being absolutely filthy, etc.) (I've got some mad stories I could tell you).

And as a manager for a long time it's remarkable how so many people are in denial of their poor performance. When you come in late most days, take really long lunch breaks, surf the web for hours, lie about your work... how is it possible you can't accept your work has a problem?

So my point here is it's quite possible the landlord thinks these people are a headache and rather than give a bad reference he doesn't want to give any reference. That's often why references are refused. People tend to enjoy giving glowing references to people they think are good...

Maybe he thinks that, but he has never once said anything about upkeep etc. We have never missed or even been late with our rent and we have replaced almost every stick of furniture in the place which he was happy for us to do. We also replaced the oven for him and replaced the skylight in the bedroom.

I know his head is wrecked by tenants though - its a house split into six flats, we are on the top floor and have always put the bins out. We went on holidays once for two weeks and the other 5 tenants never put the bins and then rang to complain that they were not picked up. They did that two weeks in a row! I also heard one of them complaining about tree branches brushing off their window and waking them up.

JimmyVik

Lux23 wrote: »

He was prosecuted for tax evasion, his name was in the paper.

Is he still doing it

_Kaiser_

crossmolinalad wrote: »

Ive moved 6 times in 15 years and never got references
Showed new landlords the rentbooks and always got their house

Have always gotten references but never, ever, had a rentbook in 20 years.

Rent has always been transferred by EFT and I just mark it as rent on the transfers every month.

Lux23

JimmyVik wrote: »

Is he still doing it

No idea, but this was recent and I believe he is in significant trouble with the bank, revenue so he is probably finding it hard to keep up with his payments.

He can still afford a rental property in France and Thailand though.

JimmyVik

Lux23 wrote: »

No idea, but this was recent and I believe he is in significant trouble with the bank, revenue so he is probably finding it hard to keep up with his payments.

He can still afford a rental property in France and Thailand though.

He is probably not doing it now if he was caught recently tbf

Lux23

Yes, but if I couldn't pay my taxes I would sell my holidays to pay it.

JimmyVik

Lux23 wrote: »

Yes, but if I couldn't pay my taxes I would sell my holidays to pay it.

Part of being caught is paying up. So he will be paying up.
But it doesnt sound like the why he is not giving a reference is because he is evading tax.

OMM 0000

OMM 0000 wrote: »

What are you talking about?

Having a bad day? Trying to let off some steam?

Surely to Jesus you can see the joke? You were adamant that banks were involved but instead of acknowledging your mistake, you moved on line your life depended on it

I made a little joke at your expense, don't get tied up over it

the_syco

the_syco wrote: »

Perhaps the LL refuses to give a reference as the OP caused them issues?

Possible so. I mentioned that already

OMM 0000

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Surely to Jesus you can see the joke? You were adamant that banks were involved but instead of acknowledging your mistake, you moved on line your life depended on it

I made a little joke at your expense, don't get tied up over it

No idea what you're talking about.

Moving on...

Lux23

JimmyVik wrote: »

Part of being caught is paying up. So he will be paying up.
But it doesnt sound like the why he is not giving a reference is because he is evading tax.

I never suggested it was. I think he is just worried about losing the revenue even in the short term, we gave him our notice anyway so he may relent in the end.

mrslancaster

Does a landlord have to give a reference?

OMM 0000

mrslancaster wrote: »

Does a landlord have to give a reference?

No.

There is no law which states landlords must provide references.