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Green Party Leadership Contest

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2

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    #32
    blackwhite
    Registered Users Posts: 8,476 ✭✭✭blackwhite


    A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »
    The bigger problem is when people look at farmers as one congruous sector.

    The Green Party's Minister of State for Agriculture farms 200 acres.

    My brother is a farmer who votes green, we're not organic, it would be classed as intensive farming.

    Lots of farmers under 40 have gone up through the ag colleges or would have done Ag Science in UCD, and are more than aware of the biodiversity and sustainability challenges that few other parties have been willing to engage with. I think you might have an idea in your head of an older, more traditional type of farmer who is fixed against reform. That's a real, but diminishing constituency. It's been clear for years that those guys are on the way out.

    I’d still fear for farmers if the greens had unrestrained power over Ag policy.

    The “old” core of the Greens is relatively urban and middle-class, the “new” Greens are typically idealistic students or not long removed from college, and again middle class. The membership doesn’t have many numbers from traditional farming backgrounds.

    Reform of farming isn’t necessarily a bad thing - but I’m not sure there’s many voices in the Green membership who’s vision of reform actually takes much input from the viewpoint of farmers.


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    #33
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 13,712 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    blackwhite wrote: »
    I’d still fear for farmers if the greens had unrestrained power over Ag policy.

    The “old” core of the Greens is relatively urban and middle-class, the “new” Greens are typically idealistic students or not long removed from college, and again middle class. The membership doesn’t have many numbers from traditional farming backgrounds.

    Reform of farming isn’t necessarily a bad thing - but I’m not sure there’s many voices in the Green membership who’s vision of reform actually takes much input from the viewpoint of farmers.

    I agree with all of this actually, except the very last bit. The Greens realised in 2016 that they wouldn't get far by continuing to alienate farmers. This somewhat coincided with the gradual change in farming that had been happening (for some years) since decoupling/ erosion of market-based supports in favour of sustainability. There's a smaller gap between GP Agricultural Policy and farmers than there ever has been... notwithstanding there is still a gap there.

    The only point I was really trying to make is that you can no longer look at farmers as an homogenous group of voters. Any forward thinking farmer can see the opportunities involved with quality schemes and stuff like Origin Green, which could be improved, and maybe the Greens are the ones to finally push it with the ambition it needs.


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    #34
    Muahahaha
    Registered Users Posts: 19,610 ✭✭✭✭Muahahaha


    Result of this due later this evening. Some chatter that Ryan has won it.


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    #35
    Imreoir2
    Registered Users Posts: 2,435 ✭✭✭Imreoir2


    There we have it, Eamon Ryan wins by a narrow margin.

    Electorate: 2,923
    Votes cast: 1,950
    Turnout: 66.7%
    Spoiled votes: 10
    Valid poll: 1,940

    Catherine Martin: 946 (48.8%)
    Eamon Ryan: 994 (51.2%)


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    #36
    Muahahaha
    Registered Users Posts: 19,610 ✭✭✭✭Muahahaha


    That was close. Bit of a disaster for the Greens, as a political commentator pointed out Catherine Martin was much better placed to attract new voters to the Green party. Ryan by comparison seems jaded and tired and has become a bit of a laughing stock with his countless gaffes. I'd expect more of the same from him and this time next year many will be regretting keeping him in situ.

    Also surprised at the turnout of 66% in a postal ballot. Seems a third of the Greens were not invigorated by either candidate or just couldnt be bothered voting. Its a bit strange for a set of people who claim to be politically active not to even bother ticking a box and putting an envelope in the post. .


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    #37
    bazermc
    Registered Users Posts: 3,116 ✭✭✭bazermc


    Delighted for Eamonn, should never have been a leadership contest in the first place.


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    #38
    Imreoir2
    Registered Users Posts: 2,435 ✭✭✭Imreoir2


    bazermc wrote: »
    Delighted for Eamonn, should never have been a leadership contest in the first place.

    The result would suggest otherwise...


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    #39
    Beechwoodspark
    Registered Users Posts: 15,281 ✭✭✭✭Beechwoodspark


    Whatever the question is, Catherine Martin is certainly not the answer

    Total chancer - plenty to come out about her, her TD husband and her self appointed senator brother


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    #40
    StackSteevens
    Closed Accounts Posts: 873 ✭✭✭StackSteevens


    Imreoir2 wrote: »

    There we have it, Eamon Ryan wins

    Electorate: 2,923
    Votes cast: 1,950
    Turnout: 66.7%
    Spoiled votes: 10
    Valid poll: 1,940

    Catherine Martin: 946 (48.8%)
    Eamon Ryan: 994 (51.2%)


    Hard to believe that there are 10 Green Party members who are so thick that they couldn't fill in a 2 candidate ballot form correctly.

    Actually, on reflection, it's not all that hard to believe.


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    #41
    ronivek
    Registered Users Posts: 1,916 ✭✭✭ronivek


    StackSteevens wrote: »
    Hard to believe that there are 10 Green Party members who are so thick that they couldn't fill in a 2 candidate ballot form correctly.

    Ballot papers are sometimes spoiled intentionally for various reasons.


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    #42
    Muahahaha
    Registered Users Posts: 19,610 ✭✭✭✭Muahahaha


    StackSteevens wrote: »
    Hard to believe that there are 10 Green Party members who are so thick that they couldn't fill in a 2 candidate ballot form correctly.

    Actually, on reflection, it's not all that hard to believe.


    A spoiled vote is just as easily a protest as a mistake, i.e. they back neither candidate and want it to be registered as such so they purposely spoil it


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    #43
    StackSteevens
    Closed Accounts Posts: 873 ✭✭✭StackSteevens


    ronivek wrote: »
    Ballot papers are sometimes spoiled intentionally for various reasons.

    You don't say!

    Let me guess:
    • Literacy problems?
    • Because the form wasn't bi-lingual?
    • Immature GP member acting the maggot?


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    #44
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,362 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    StackSteevens wrote: »
    You don't say!

    Let me guess:
    • Literacy problems?
    • Because the form wasn't bi-lingual?
    • Immature GP member acting the maggot?

    None of the above.
    We should not have a leadership vote now.
    There are more important issues facing the environment.
    Who cares who leads the party.
    None of he above.


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    #45
    Imreoir2
    Registered Users Posts: 2,435 ✭✭✭Imreoir2


    Beechwoodspark wrote: »
    Whatever the question is, Catherine Martin is certainly not the answer

    Total chancer - plenty to come out about her, her TD husband and her self appointed senator brother

    Except that the nomination of senators was not Carherine Martin's decision, nor was it her husbands.

    Her husband was selected as a GE candidate by the party members of his constituency, not by his wife, and he won enough votes to get himself elected.

    You seem to have an axe to grind...


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    #46
    Beechwoodspark
    Registered Users Posts: 15,281 ✭✭✭✭Beechwoodspark


    Imreoir2 wrote: »
    Except that the nomination of senators was not Carherine Martin's decision, nor was it her husbands.

    Her husband was selected as a GE candidate by the party members of his constituency, not by his wife, and he won enough votes to get himself elected.

    You seem to have an axe to grind...

    If you believe that story about how her brother got into the senate, I have a few magic beans to sell you

    No axe to grind, just I know she is a chancer having observed her and the husband over the years.


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    #47
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 38,855 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Imreoir2 wrote: »
    There we have it, Eamon Ryan wins by a narrow margin.

    Electorate: 2,923
    Votes cast: 1,950
    Turnout: 66.7%
    Spoiled votes: 10
    Valid poll: 1,940

    Catherine Martin: 946 (48.8%)
    Eamon Ryan: 994 (51.2%)
    As many didnt bother voting as voted for the pair of Ryan & Martin.
    The greens need to look long and hard at themselves.
    The public leadership battle during the discussions to enter government just showed how bad they are internally.
    I'd like to see them do well in government but there seems to be a lot of discontent within and I can't see it ending well for them.


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    #48
    Gods Gift
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,713 ✭✭✭Gods Gift


    StackSteevens wrote: »
    Hard to believe that there are 10 Green Party members who are so thick that they couldn't fill in a 2 candidate ballot form correctly.

    Actually, on reflection, it's not all that hard to believe.

    Terrible waste of paper and trees.


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    #49
    Imreoir2
    Registered Users Posts: 2,435 ✭✭✭Imreoir2


    Beechwoodspark wrote: »
    If you believe that story about how her brother got into the senate, I have a few magic beans to sell you

    No axe to grind, just I know she is a chancer having observed her and the husband over the years.

    Since when is deciding on seanad nominations the job of the deputy leader?

    If you want to believe conspericy theories, I have some bleach to sell you.


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    #50
    gmisk
    Registered Users Posts: 31,831 ✭✭✭✭gmisk


    Beechwoodspark wrote: »
    Whatever the question is, Catherine Martin is certainly not the answer

    Total chancer - plenty to come out about her, her TD husband and her self appointed senator brother
    What do you think will come out?
    I don't think she picked the senators, the ones selected polled extremely well in GE, I think the best out of greens not to get in? Seems like sensible choices to me


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    #51
    Imreoir2
    Registered Users Posts: 2,435 ✭✭✭Imreoir2


    gmisk wrote: »
    What do you think will come out?
    I don't think she picked the senators, the ones selected polled extremely well in GE, I think the best out of greens not to get in? Seems like sensible choices to me

    Indeed, the two highest placed candidates not to be elected, same criteria as the last time the decision had to be made in 2007.


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    #52
    Beechwoodspark
    Registered Users Posts: 15,281 ✭✭✭✭Beechwoodspark


    gmisk wrote: »
    What do you think will come out?
    I don't think she picked the senators, the ones selected polled extremely well in GE, I think the best out of greens not to get in? Seems like sensible choices to me

    Ask anyone in the greens in dublin /Leinster and they’ll have stories on her. And the husband.

    A local councilor told me there was general disbelief she actually challenged ER given some of the shenanigans that have gone on behind the scenes over the last few years.

    ER - being the wily campaigner he is - knew all this and his campaign subtly reminded ppl of it.

    You don’t get to be around as long as he has without learning a few tricks along the way - and crucially - building up loyalties and respect.


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    #53
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 38,855 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Beechwoodspark wrote: »
    ER - being the wily campaigner he is - knew all this and his campaign subtly reminded ppl of it.

    You don’t get to be around as long as he has without learning a few tricks along the way - and crucially - building up loyalties and respect.
    He won just by the skin of his teeth so loyalty obviously isn't that strong towards him.


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    #54
    Beechwoodspark
    Registered Users Posts: 15,281 ✭✭✭✭Beechwoodspark


    Seth Brundle wrote: »
    He won just by the skin of his teeth so loyalty obviously isn't that strong towards him.


    Look at the low turnout. That says it all about what the membership think about either option.


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    #55
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 37,153 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Mod: A post has been deleted. Please bear the charter in mind when posting.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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    #56
    StackSteevens
    Closed Accounts Posts: 873 ✭✭✭StackSteevens


    Imreoir2 wrote: »
    Except that the nomination of senators was not Carherine Martin's decision, nor was it her husbands.

    Her husband was selected as a GE candidate by the party members of his constituency, not by his wife, and he won enough votes to get himself elected.

    You seem to have an axe to grind...


    Alternatively, perhaps he just isn't keen on political incest.

    In time, it seems likely that the Greens will end up with their own veggie version of the Healy-Rae clan.


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    #57
    expectationlost
    Registered Users Posts: 11,753 ✭✭✭✭expectationlost


    Green senator Garvey apologises after insulting party deputy leader in group texts https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40028459.html over promotion via the Seanad


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    #58
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,652 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Martin's brother went to bat in the Seanad for what is clearly the core issue for his constituents - the Leinster Senior Cup final...

    Fighting with FF for which party is more jokeshop really.


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    #59
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,362 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    L1011 wrote: »
    Martin's brother went to bat in the Seanad for what is clearly the core issue for his constituents - the Leinster Senior Cup final...

    Fighting with FF for which party is more jokeshop really.

    A lot of first time TDs ans Senators. They need time to get their feet under the table. Previous student politics does not count as political experience.

    Ryan is a weak leader, almost as weak as the Micky Martin - FF.


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    #60
    expectationlost
    Registered Users Posts: 11,753 ✭✭✭✭expectationlost


    Sam Russell wrote: »
    A lot of first time TDs ans Senators. They need time to get their feet under the table. Previous student politics does not count as political experience.
    Garvey and Vincent Martin are not spring chickens


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    #61
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,652 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Sam Russell wrote: »
    A lot of first time TDs ans Senators. They need time to get their feet under the table. Previous student politics does not count as political experience.

    Ryan is a weak leader, almost as weak as the Micky Martin - FF.

    Vincent Martin was a councillor (Ind not GP) over two decades ago. He knows what he's at. Appeal to the FG-on-bikes contingent in the constituency, of which there are plenty.


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