Managing very poor performance

AndrewJRenko

sweet_trip wrote: »

Used to have a colleague like this in my PS job. Absolute tyrant, and a total sociopath with severe issues that would terrorize fellow staff and clients.

It was horrendous, people would actually call in sick to avoid working with her.
She would bully and abuse managers. Had her solicitor on speed dial.
Actually assaulted some clients and ended up turning it on them and played victim.



She would actually come in and at 10am (2 hours late) in the morning would point blank refuse to do work because "I want to be finished on time today". And would just go sit in the break room or go off shopping for the day and then piss off an hour before finish time.


She was totally untouchable. Management dreaded her and it went so far up the chain and they never could handle her. It was horrendous.


Her previous PS employer gave her glowing references just to get rid of her and offload her on our department.



In the end she faked an injury and got a massive payout.



Sickening.

Why was she 'untouchable'? Why didn't her line managers go through the well established performance management processes?

sweet_trip

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Why was she 'untouchable'? Why didn't her line managers go through the well established performance management processes?

They did but you have to understand the public service body I'm not going to name. It's practically impossible to be sacked.

At the very most she got a stage 1 disciplinary or a written warning.



It's a long long story but essentially you could basically beat the **** out of your manager and slash the tires on their car and get away with it if you wanted in some public service sections. (this has happened several times around the country in this role)


You can rack up dozens of disciplinary actions and be let away with it.



I could write a book on it. Most probably wouldn't believe me.

AndrewJRenko

sweet_trip wrote: »

They did but you have to understand the public service body I'm not going to name. It's practically impossible to be sacked.

At the very most she got a stage 1 disciplinary or a written warning.



It's a long long story but essentially you could basically beat the **** out of your manager and slash the tires on their car and get away with it if you wanted in some public service sections. (this has happened several times around the country in this role)


You can rack up dozens of disciplinary actions and be let away with it.



I could write a book on it. Most probably wouldn't believe me.

It's not true that they can't be sacked.

sweet_trip

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

It's not true that they can't be sacked.

I know. It was hyperbole but it might as well be true because from the years ive worked in the PS I've seen some atrocious carry on, and some employees rack up records/reputations worse than criminals and they never get more than a slap on the wrist and are allowed carry on.


Probably not the right thread to be discussing this in.

screamer

Being late- easy to address. Easy to discipline for also.
Sick leaves- make her attend the company doctor.
Poor performance a pip is needed as it’s a document of what is expected, what is actually being delivered and the steps needed for improvement. You’ll basically have to give her clear goals ( number based are best) and then literally sit on her tail every week to find out what’s happening, what the trend is in delivery etc, and you need HR fully in your corner. Although, to be honest I’d say you’ll see her go on extended sick leave if you go down that route. Finally document every one to one with her, type up a he said, she said and I’d send it to your HR person as a note in case she comes making some bull**** claim of bullying or otherwise.
It’s not going to be easy, and it will take some skin off you, but there’ll be people in your team who will respect and thank you for doing it, even if you can’t tell them, they’ll find out.

Snow Garden

OP, be very very careful.

I worked in the public sector for several years in the 2000s and I know you are in a very tricky situation. A PIP might work in the private sector but it will not work for you.

I have seen good managers destroyed by the union when they tried to tackle a poor performer. These types tend to know their 'rights' and options. Taking them on is simply not worth the hassle. You could end up at the WRC.

My advice - change her role/tasks so that she has less interactions with the rest of the team and others are not dependent on her work. Not easy to do but a poor performer can have a toxic effect on the whole team. I even saw managers encourage poor performers to go for other roles with higher grades just to move them on.

Do document everything she does just to cover your backside in case things escalate internally. I actually did not have a formal performance appraisal for nearly 7 years. It was just a tick-the-box but I always got my increments.

Be careful talking to HR too. They are a varied bunch in the public sector. Some might see you as a trouble maker. Other might go on a bit of a power trip. Read all the performance, disciplinary, grievance and complaints procedures in detail too. I don't envy you, no winners here.

johng906

My experience from managjng people in big MNCs:

Document everything you are doing, saying, observing.

How is the person accountable to their targets? - the responsibility to improve is theirs, keep on peeling back the barriers to effective performance until there is nothing else to blame but themselves.

When you see something, say it - feedback needs to be timely or theres no point.

Engage HR / your management for awareness from the outset.

Give the employee every chance to improve before "formal" disciplinary proceedings - use principles of natural justice

Snow Garden

John Hutton wrote: »

Look at it this way, OPs employee could have a decade, or two, or more, of service where not one transgression has been properly DOCUMENTED. Everyone will know that the employee is ****. But the records will show that they were grand until 18 months ago OP arrived on the scene. Just think about how this can be portrayed and twisted.

Very very good point especially if all the previous managers turned a blind eye. And then you will get employees that simply lie to get their way.

LegacyUser

Snow Garden, that's what I am afraid of. This all coming back on me, or even if I document everything to cover myself (though I am afraid I'll do something tiny or insignificant that leaves me open to scrutiny), the mental health / strain of it. I can see this turning into a "manger-bullying-employee" spin because the problem has never been tackled or highlighted before due to the culture of her previous managers all avoiding having difficult conversations to point out the issues. I can't really move her duties to something less important or a lower visibility area and forget about her. Not at the moment anyway, but maybe something to think about down the line.

Would a performance management course really help? If anyone has any recommendations let me know!

Mrs OBumble

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

It absolutely is possible to deal with this, though it won't be easy. Get your PO on your side.

Ahhh bless! Such innocence.

John Hutton

helpmeimnotadoctor wrote: »

Snow Garden, that's what I am afraid of. This all coming back on me, or even if I document everything to cover myself (though I am afraid I'll do something tiny or insignificant that leaves me open to scrutiny), the mental health / strain of it. I can see this turning into a "manger-bullying-employee" spin because the problem has never been tackled or highlighted before due to the culture of her previous managers all avoiding having difficult conversations to point out the issues. I can't really move her duties to something less important or a lower visibility area and forget about her. Not at the moment anyway, but maybe something to think about down the line.

Would a performance management course really help? If anyone has any recommendations let me know!

There are good one learning courses the civil service run on managing underperformance (I think it's called that) which I reccomend. I found them very useful, particularly on managing people on probation.

Definitely go on them, but it mightn't overly help with your particular issue but you never know.

Document everything in the meantime but you're right to be careful.

Honestly though she won't get better, what you need to do is get her moved to be someone else's problem.

Try and be creative - can you think of any divisional issue that perhaps needs attention? (GDPR review is a popular one around now, or maybe an archive review, or clearing out of decades old files, either to be binned or sent to national archives? Or maybe something else buried in the business plan that never gets done?) If there was such an issue and a working group set up to tackle it, perhaps you would be so gracious as to offer this employee to help the project full time for 3 or 6 months? And sure when she was gone maybe your team would become more efficient and become clear that you don't need that extra person, and graciously offer to not take her back and allow her to be allocated to one of the other teams desperate for additional numbers?

Or you could go down the road of just leaving her as is and blaming her for everything that goes wrong and missed deadlines etc? (Which are actually her fault)

Remember, if you or others pick up the slack and do the work and stuff gets done then as far as management are concerned there is no problem. You have to make it a problem for them, and if everyone knows what this woman is like they won't think your a crap manager

Augme

OP you need to decide what you want to achieve in these situations and what is your priority and how much work (and risk) you are willing to put in. If I was you I'd break down the various different options and have a good think about them.

1. Do I genuinely want to improve the staff member?
2. Do I just want to get rid of the problem?
3. How would I rank my priorities in terms of importance in this situation - the individual, the team, my line manager, the organisation, or myself (including family) will all need to be included.


They will be conflicting priorities probably when you think about the above but it is important. If I were you before deciding what to do I would figure out what my ultimate end goal is and then map of a couple of potential scenarios on how they can be achieved.

LegacyUser

Thanks Augme - I need to have a think about that.

I started off 18 months ago and was definitely, definitely at #1 (maybe a bit naively), but now after my best efforts to improve her performance I am leaning more towards #2 - if it was a possibility, but I am not sure it is.

Maybe I need to return to #1 for one last spell of trying and then focus on #2.

The only consolation is from my reading of things the PO knows the individual is a problem (though I don't think they realise just how bad it is), which may help cover my side of things I hope.

AndrewJRenko

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Ahhh bless! Such innocence.

The only barrier to solving this issue is the people who keep saying 'ah sure nothing can be done'.

TrixIrl

Get on to your local employee relations department, they'll be the ones who have to deal with it once she inevitably lodges a Dignity at Work or WRC case etc.

They'll give you step by step, lodge and document EVERYTHING.

If you were in on a temp post or intend moving on in the next 2-3 years it might not be worth the hassle. But if you're there for the foreseeable then you need to deal with it or you'll haunt yourself over it.

Mrs OBumble

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Get advice from your manager and HR department. It may be that she really is untouchable due to political factors beyond your control.

Seen this before in a job I was in. Let your subordinate go as much as you can, her colleagues are probably aware of her "office deportment"

TrixIrl

TrixIrl wrote: »

Get on to your local employee relations department, they'll be the ones who have to deal with it once she inevitably lodges a Dignity at Work or WRC case etc.
.

Very Likely.

But in doing so, she will show her true flying colours.

Does she have more than one colleague on her team who would stick up for her and fight her corner? Well?;)

whampiri

I went to pm the op but can't. I've dealt with this type of thing before, successfully. Pm me if you want/can and I'll gladly walk you through it.

Snow Garden

whampiri wrote: »

I went to pm the op but can't. I've dealt with this type of thing before, successfully. Pm me if you want/can and I'll gladly walk you through it.

But did you deal with it successfully in the public sector? That's a completely different environment.

whampiri

Snow Garden wrote: »

But did you deal with it successfully in the public sector? That's a completely different environment.

Yes, in the public/civil service.

Slanty

whampiri wrote: »

I went to pm the op but can't. I've dealt with this type of thing before, successfully. Pm me if you want/can and I'll gladly walk you through it.

Why over a P/M? Is it a secret?

whampiri

Slanty wrote: »

Why over a P/M? Is it a secret?

Easier to discuss issues via phone call than in messages and I don't want my phone number all over the internet.