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Managing very poor performance

LegacyUser

I'm in a management role about 18 months now and have an employee whose performance is beyond poor - not just a bit of a slacker or needing a firm nudge to get things done, but maybe hitting 20% of targets at best, and using excuses and blaming others to escape accountability. On top of all that there is extreme passive aggression and arrogance to the point that she thinks nobody can question her ability or skills.

I'm torn how to deal with this - I have tried playing the "i'm on your side, but we need to resolve this and find ways for you to hit your targets" nicely nicely approach, but no progress, if anything it's getting worse over time. I fear clamping down hard will just play into her hands though as this is somebody who seems to love the battle and conflict. I am honestly scratching my head trying to move this forward.

Any tips on nipping it in the bud and improving things?

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whampiri

Slanty wrote: »

Why over a P/M? Is it a secret?

Easier to discuss issues via phone call than in messages and I don't want my phone number all over the internet.

Slanty

whampiri wrote: »

I went to pm the op but can't. I've dealt with this type of thing before, successfully. Pm me if you want/can and I'll gladly walk you through it.

Why over a P/M? Is it a secret?

whampiri

Snow Garden wrote: »

But did you deal with it successfully in the public sector? That's a completely different environment.

Yes, in the public/civil service.

Snow Garden

whampiri wrote: »

I went to pm the op but can't. I've dealt with this type of thing before, successfully. Pm me if you want/can and I'll gladly walk you through it.

But did you deal with it successfully in the public sector? That's a completely different environment.

whampiri

I went to pm the op but can't. I've dealt with this type of thing before, successfully. Pm me if you want/can and I'll gladly walk you through it.

[Deleted User]

TrixIrl wrote: »

Get on to your local employee relations department, they'll be the ones who have to deal with it once she inevitably lodges a Dignity at Work or WRC case etc.
.

Very Likely.

But in doing so, she will show her true flying colours.

Does she have more than one colleague on her team who would stick up for her and fight her corner? Well?;)

[Deleted User]

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Get advice from your manager and HR department. It may be that she really is untouchable due to political factors beyond your control.

Seen this before in a job I was in. Let your subordinate go as much as you can, her colleagues are probably aware of her "office deportment"

TrixIrl

Get on to your local employee relations department, they'll be the ones who have to deal with it once she inevitably lodges a Dignity at Work or WRC case etc.

They'll give you step by step, lodge and document EVERYTHING.

If you were in on a temp post or intend moving on in the next 2-3 years it might not be worth the hassle. But if you're there for the foreseeable then you need to deal with it or you'll haunt yourself over it.

[Deleted User]

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Ahhh bless! Such innocence.

The only barrier to solving this issue is the people who keep saying 'ah sure nothing can be done'.

LegacyUser

Thanks Augme - I need to have a think about that.

I started off 18 months ago and was definitely, definitely at #1 (maybe a bit naively), but now after my best efforts to improve her performance I am leaning more towards #2 - if it was a possibility, but I am not sure it is.

Maybe I need to return to #1 for one last spell of trying and then focus on #2.

The only consolation is from my reading of things the PO knows the individual is a problem (though I don't think they realise just how bad it is), which may help cover my side of things I hope.

Augme

OP you need to decide what you want to achieve in these situations and what is your priority and how much work (and risk) you are willing to put in. If I was you I'd break down the various different options and have a good think about them.

1. Do I genuinely want to improve the staff member?
2. Do I just want to get rid of the problem?
3. How would I rank my priorities in terms of importance in this situation - the individual, the team, my line manager, the organisation, or myself (including family) will all need to be included.

They will be conflicting priorities probably when you think about the above but it is important. If I were you before deciding what to do I would figure out what my ultimate end goal is and then map of a couple of potential scenarios on how they can be achieved.

John Hutton

helpmeimnotadoctor wrote: »

Snow Garden, that's what I am afraid of. This all coming back on me, or even if I document everything to cover myself (though I am afraid I'll do something tiny or insignificant that leaves me open to scrutiny), the mental health / strain of it. I can see this turning into a "manger-bullying-employee" spin because the problem has never been tackled or highlighted before due to the culture of her previous managers all avoiding having difficult conversations to point out the issues. I can't really move her duties to something less important or a lower visibility area and forget about her. Not at the moment anyway, but maybe something to think about down the line.

Would a performance management course really help? If anyone has any recommendations let me know!

There are good one learning courses the civil service run on managing underperformance (I think it's called that) which I reccomend. I found them very useful, particularly on managing people on probation.

Definitely go on them, but it mightn't overly help with your particular issue but you never know.

Document everything in the meantime but you're right to be careful.

Honestly though she won't get better, what you need to do is get her moved to be someone else's problem.

Try and be creative - can you think of any divisional issue that perhaps needs attention? (GDPR review is a popular one around now, or maybe an archive review, or clearing out of decades old files, either to be binned or sent to national archives? Or maybe something else buried in the business plan that never gets done?) If there was such an issue and a working group set up to tackle it, perhaps you would be so gracious as to offer this employee to help the project full time for 3 or 6 months? And sure when she was gone maybe your team would become more efficient and become clear that you don't need that extra person, and graciously offer to not take her back and allow her to be allocated to one of the other teams desperate for additional numbers?

Or you could go down the road of just leaving her as is and blaming her for everything that goes wrong and missed deadlines etc? (Which are actually her fault)

Remember, if you or others pick up the slack and do the work and stuff gets done then as far as management are concerned there is no problem. You have to make it a problem for them, and if everyone knows what this woman is like they won't think your a crap manager

Mrs OBumble

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

It absolutely is possible to deal with this, though it won't be easy. Get your PO on your side.

Ahhh bless! Such innocence.

LegacyUser

Snow Garden, that's what I am afraid of. This all coming back on me, or even if I document everything to cover myself (though I am afraid I'll do something tiny or insignificant that leaves me open to scrutiny), the mental health / strain of it. I can see this turning into a "manger-bullying-employee" spin because the problem has never been tackled or highlighted before due to the culture of her previous managers all avoiding having difficult conversations to point out the issues. I can't really move her duties to something less important or a lower visibility area and forget about her. Not at the moment anyway, but maybe something to think about down the line.

Would a performance management course really help? If anyone has any recommendations let me know!

Snow Garden

John Hutton wrote: »

Look at it this way, OPs employee could have a decade, or two, or more, of service where not one transgression has been properly DOCUMENTED. Everyone will know that the employee is ****. But the records will show that they were grand until 18 months ago OP arrived on the scene. Just think about how this can be portrayed and twisted.

Very very good point especially if all the previous managers turned a blind eye. And then you will get employees that simply lie to get their way.

johng906

My experience from managjng people in big MNCs:

Document everything you are doing, saying, observing.

How is the person accountable to their targets? - the responsibility to improve is theirs, keep on peeling back the barriers to effective performance until there is nothing else to blame but themselves.

When you see something, say it - feedback needs to be timely or theres no point.

Engage HR / your management for awareness from the outset.

Give the employee every chance to improve before "formal" disciplinary proceedings - use principles of natural justice

Snow Garden

OP, be very very careful.

I worked in the public sector for several years in the 2000s and I know you are in a very tricky situation. A PIP might work in the private sector but it will not work for you.

I have seen good managers destroyed by the union when they tried to tackle a poor performer. These types tend to know their 'rights' and options. Taking them on is simply not worth the hassle. You could end up at the WRC.

My advice - change her role/tasks so that she has less interactions with the rest of the team and others are not dependent on her work. Not easy to do but a poor performer can have a toxic effect on the whole team. I even saw managers encourage poor performers to go for other roles with higher grades just to move them on.

Do document everything she does just to cover your backside in case things escalate internally. I actually did not have a formal performance appraisal for nearly 7 years. It was just a tick-the-box but I always got my increments.

Be careful talking to HR too. They are a varied bunch in the public sector. Some might see you as a trouble maker. Other might go on a bit of a power trip. Read all the performance, disciplinary, grievance and complaints procedures in detail too. I don't envy you, no winners here.

screamer

Being late- easy to address. Easy to discipline for also.
Sick leaves- make her attend the company doctor.
Poor performance a pip is needed as it’s a document of what is expected, what is actually being delivered and the steps needed for improvement. You’ll basically have to give her clear goals ( number based are best) and then literally sit on her tail every week to find out what’s happening, what the trend is in delivery etc, and you need HR fully in your corner. Although, to be honest I’d say you’ll see her go on extended sick leave if you go down that route. Finally document every one to one with her, type up a he said, she said and I’d send it to your HR person as a note in case she comes making some bull**** claim of bullying or otherwise.
It’s not going to be easy, and it will take some skin off you, but there’ll be people in your team who will respect and thank you for doing it, even if you can’t tell them, they’ll find out.

sweet_trip

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

It's not true that they can't be sacked.

I know. It was hyperbole but it might as well be true because from the years ive worked in the PS I've seen some atrocious carry on, and some employees rack up records/reputations worse than criminals and they never get more than a slap on the wrist and are allowed carry on.

Probably not the right thread to be discussing this in.

[Deleted User]

sweet_trip wrote: »

They did but you have to understand the public service body I'm not going to name. It's practically impossible to be sacked.

At the very most she got a stage 1 disciplinary or a written warning.

It's a long long story but essentially you could basically beat the **** out of your manager and slash the tires on their car and get away with it if you wanted in some public service sections. (this has happened several times around the country in this role)

You can rack up dozens of disciplinary actions and be let away with it.

I could write a book on it. Most probably wouldn't believe me.

It's not true that they can't be sacked.

sweet_trip

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Why was she 'untouchable'? Why didn't her line managers go through the well established performance management processes?

They did but you have to understand the public service body I'm not going to name. It's practically impossible to be sacked.

At the very most she got a stage 1 disciplinary or a written warning.

It's a long long story but essentially you could basically beat the **** out of your manager and slash the tires on their car and get away with it if you wanted in some public service sections. (this has happened several times around the country in this role)

You can rack up dozens of disciplinary actions and be let away with it.

I could write a book on it. Most probably wouldn't believe me.

[Deleted User]

sweet_trip wrote: »

Used to have a colleague like this in my PS job. Absolute tyrant, and a total sociopath with severe issues that would terrorize fellow staff and clients.

It was horrendous, people would actually call in sick to avoid working with her.
She would bully and abuse managers. Had her solicitor on speed dial.
Actually assaulted some clients and ended up turning it on them and played victim.

She would actually come in and at 10am (2 hours late) in the morning would point blank refuse to do work because "I want to be finished on time today". And would just go sit in the break room or go off shopping for the day and then piss off an hour before finish time.

She was totally untouchable. Management dreaded her and it went so far up the chain and they never could handle her. It was horrendous.

Her previous PS employer gave her glowing references just to get rid of her and offload her on our department.

In the end she faked an injury and got a massive payout.

Sickening.

Why was she 'untouchable'? Why didn't her line managers go through the well established performance management processes?

[Deleted User]

helpmeimnotadoctor wrote: »

Sorry for the delay in responding - my posts need approval by a mod as I am posting anonymously.

Some colleagues are frustrated at the perception that a "blind eye" is being turned to her and some feel they are carrying the burden of her workload on top of their own. Sick leave has also been a frequent occurrence as well as being late, disappearing for parts of the day etc. Hopefully the PIP or something similar through PMDS will provide a reality check. I am tearing my hair out after over a year of this.

Talk to your HR people urgently. Get yourself on a performance management course as soon as possible.

It absolutely is possible to deal with this, though it won't be easy. Get your PO on your side.

LegacyUser

Thanks sweettrip (and everyone else) - this sounds exactly like my own case. At least I know I am not on my own with this and not the first person to experience it. It really is tough situation, so I will just take any small improvement right now and try and build on it I think whilst keeping my own mental health on track if I can.

sweet_trip

Used to have a colleague like this in my PS job. Absolute tyrant, and a total sociopath with severe issues that would terrorize fellow staff and clients.

It was horrendous, people would actually call in sick to avoid working with her.
She would bully and abuse managers. Had her solicitor on speed dial.
Actually assaulted some clients and ended up turning it on them and played victim.

She would actually come in and at 10am (2 hours late) in the morning would point blank refuse to do work because "I want to be finished on time today". And would just go sit in the break room or go off shopping for the day and then piss off an hour before finish time.

She was totally untouchable. Management dreaded her and it went so far up the chain and they never could handle her. It was horrendous.

Her previous PS employer gave her glowing references just to get rid of her and offload her on our department.

In the end she faked an injury and got a massive payout.

Sickening.

LegacyUser

John Hutton wrote: »

The union won't cause the problem.

Do you think that OPs staff member will go to the union and say "I've been a terrible freeloader for years and my boss is totally right"? Of course not, the union will get a sob story and then the union will do their job which is to help represent the worker. The union will look at everything and more than likely someone won't have done something properly somewhere or an alternative solution proposed such as a transfer.

Think about it this way, if a worker has years and years of not getting in trouble, and has documents to demonstrate this (never been on a PIP, has passed PMDS etc.) and goes to the union and says manager of last 18 months is picking on me and making my life hell why shouldn't the union represent that person as vigorously as possible?

John this is exactly my fear - she will say "there has never been a problem with my work before in 20 years" until 18 months ago - so now it seems I am the problem and it is me bullying her or using a power imbalance. I am afraid I will make a small error somewhere along the way - phrase something with the wrong tone - and be hung out to dry on it.

It has been really helpful to have this advice, but even with a PIP I think it will be a challenge and can see that the next ten years might mean me working with her in very tense and hostile circumstances with little or no improvement and her doing the bare minimum until she retires.

John Hutton

salonfire wrote: »

Even though you know first hand the problems they can cause it in dealing with poor performance?

Think about the amount of time the OP has spent on this person already, then needs to spend even more time to document and deal with it only for the person to be moved on to become someone's problem. Then the cycle starts again.

The union won't cause the problem.

Do you think that OPs staff member will go to the union and say "I've been a terrible freeloader for years and my boss is totally right"? Of course not, the union will get a sob story and then the union will do their job which is to help represent the worker. The union will look at everything and more than likely someone won't have done something properly somewhere or an alternative solution proposed such as a transfer.

Think about it this way, if a worker has years and years of not getting in trouble, and has documents to demonstrate this (never been on a PIP, has passed PMDS etc.) and goes to the union and says manager of last 18 months is picking on me and making my life hell why shouldn't the union represent that person as vigorously as possible?

seannash

Im surprised you have to be told to use a PIP on here. If she has measurable goals just do it by numbers. Doesn't matter where this employee works, she either inproves or is issued warnings until she's terminated.
So avoid the politics of why this persons feels she can under perform and get away with it and ya know..be a manager and discipline an underperforming employee.

John Hutton

Ciaranis wrote: »

So the caricatures of the public service are... not without validity

Even caricature has an element of reality, albeit exaggerated. That's what makes it a caricature!

People like the OPs staff member are: 1. Very Few. 2. Hated by everyone 3. Dying out

They are a legacy issue. People like this now do not get past interviews etc and if they do they do not pass probation.

Look at it this way, OPs employee could have a decade, or two, or more, of service where not one transgression has been properly DOCUMENTED. Everyone will know that the employee is ****. But the records will show that they were grand until 18 months ago OP arrived on the scene. Just think about how this can be portrayed and twisted.

The civil service is a great place to work and the vast majority do great work. But there are a few pricks who take advantage but they are being weeded out.

Ideally the person should be sacked but that would be extremely difficult.

My posts here are to try and help the OP who is at his wits end with some practical advice which basically boils down to: make this a problem for someone who has the power to move the problem staff member

[Deleted User]

John Hutton wrote: »

Just to add, I'm not slagging off the union I was a rep myself for years and think everyone should be in a union but I know from personal experience that it is easy to overlook something that tbe union will notice and senior management will just want the problem to go away.

Plus when it gets serious you'll have the whole being accused of bullying and tbe mental health card being played and it gets tricky

Even though you know first hand the problems they can cause it in dealing with poor performance?

Think about the amount of time the OP has spent on this person already, then needs to spend even more time to document and deal with it only for the person to be moved on to become someone's problem. Then the cycle starts again.