Irish roads and racers

Weepsie

North county Dublin has plenty of l roads that are great fun on a cyclo-cross or gravel bike, and other places too no doubt, but as above, I get by fine on 23 mm tyres for 100km + cycles.

Now there's probably a caveat to add, that I, like many other posters do quite a bit of cycling so what we find comfortable comes after a whole lot of doing it

gaffmaster

Even within the two genres of Road Bike vs Gravel Bike, there are cross overs like the Trek Domane; which markets itself as an 'every road' bike, and has clearance for 38c tyres.

The gap between endurance road bikes and gravel bikes is getting smaller, with gravel bikes adding suspension systems to keep themselves diverse - Cannondale Topstone Lefty and Specialized Diverge spring to mind (punsville).

The other thing to bear in mind, is that the definition of a gravel road changes from country to country and perhaps county to county in Ireland. Fire roads in the States vs grassy back lanes in Ireland to cobbles of Flanders etc.

Personally, when on the road (even bad roads) I prefer 25c because it feels faster. The sensation from 28c is more plush, and you can be going the same speed as on 25c but I prefer the sensation of 25c.

onlineweb

gaffmaster wrote: »

Even within the two genres of Road Bike vs Gravel Bike, there are cross overs like the Trek Domane; which markets itself as an 'every road' bike, and has clearance for 38c tyres.

The gap between endurance road bikes and gravel bikes is getting smaller, with gravel bikes adding suspension systems to keep themselves diverse - Cannondale Topstone Lefty and Specialized Diverge spring to mind (punsville).

The other thing to bear in mind, is that the definition of a gravel road changes from country to country and perhaps county to county in Ireland. Fire roads in the States vs grassy back lanes in Ireland to cobbles of Flanders etc.

Personally, when on the road (even bad roads) I prefer 25c because it feels faster. The sensation from 28c is more plush, and you can be going the same speed as on 25c but I prefer the sensation of 25c.

Would you recommend switching the Gravel bikes 38 mm to 25/28 mm when using it as a road bike?

Effects

onlineweb wrote: »

Would you recommend switching the Gravel bikes 38 mm to 25/28 mm when using it as a road bike?

That's been my plan with the gravel bike, but haven't got around to getting another set of wheels yet.

brocbrocach

Tony04 wrote: »

Ok I'll try and sum up alot of what you'll have to consider here.

So to any cycling enthusiast if you want to call us that you wont really hear us talking about racers, road bikes maybe yeh. The word racer is just used by non enthusiasts to describe anything that has drop bars and looks fast, for example my dad calls his gravel bike a racer.

But let's just take a racer as any bike capable of going fast in road races or in other words a road bike. Theres a few reason it's faster than your average hybrid commuter.
The main being tyres(rolling resistance), aerodynamics and weight and maybe gearing.
Tyres- as has been discussed in this thread the narrower it is generally the faster it is as theres less surface area so less rolling resistance, wider tyres generally let you run lower pressures which let's the tyre conform over rough surfaces and generally is more comfortable.
Aerodynamics- has a big impact on how fast you can go on your bike, basically is how air is deflecting off you when cycling so for example a bike with wide bars has more surface area and deflects air worse than a bike with drop bars so the bike with drop bars is going to be slowed down less and therefore go faster. However being in an aerodynamic position on a bike is more uncomfortable and harder to handle and therefore aerodynamics arent even considered in mountain bikes
as they rely on handling.
Weight- going up hill gravity holds you back so bikes are engineered to be as light as possible this achieved using more expensive materials such as carbon over steel etc. On a lighter bike hills will be much easier.
Gearing- being in the right gear will help you transfer power generated into the pedals to the wheels and therefore you go faster.
So different bikes will emphasize on the above differently and you get three main types of road bikes.

Aero bikes- is aggressively shaped and puts the rider in an aggressive aerodynamic position while it's not the most comfortable aerodynamics are advantageous for racing. Beginners should forget about these.

Climbing/ all round race bikes- usally the main emphasis here is weight so these bikes will perform best up hill in a more slightly comfortable position than aero bikes. Although nowadays most of these bikes are designed to be aero

Endurance bikes- put you in a more relaxed position for comfort. Pretty much all entry level bikes but some are less endurance oriented and more suited for racing.

Take in mind these categories arent really real and differences between these bikes arent that drastic.

Then theres a few things to consider about spec.

Namely.

Frame material: usually carbon vs aluminium. Carbon is more optimal as it is lighter stiffer etc. but is quite more expensive and the difference between aluminium which is much cheaper is marginal.

Brakes: disc brakes vs rim brakes disc brakes offer better stopping power and modulation than rim brakes but rim brakes are good as it is and much cheaper.

Groupset: brakes and drivetrain. Theres a hierarchy of products you should look up to better understand. But the more you pay the more features you get up to shimano 105 which uses the same features as pros would but pros would just have more expensive groupsets which use lighter materials. So a big thing to consider is paying more to get 10 speed tiagra with 2p gears or 11 speed 105 with 22 gears.

I can reccomend a bike for you also but would need to know a few things like how much you willing to spend ?what you would compromise on? Are you willing to buy a bike online, to save money? Are you using bike to work scheme?

Other thing is used bikes offer much better value for money but that market has dried up with the covid bike rush.

Excellent post. Dispels a lot of the confusion novice cyclists will feel trying to just buy a fun bike.

Macy0161

I would suggest the move towards gravel bikes is nothing to do with comfort, and everything to do with the standard of driving and (lack of) enforcement. In this country at least (road safety is also a big factor in other countries, but also the lack of regulation in the States).

If my 2016 Giant Defy had better tyre clearance I doubt I would've upgraded to a gravel bike tbh. However, that lack of versatility has really irritated me as my cycling developed, and I normally recommend looking at endurance geometry Gravel and All Roads to any newbie over an "Endurance" road bike.

A Gravel bike will most likely take mudguards, have pannier rack mounts etc., opening up commuting/ bike packing potential. The stock/ supplied tyre's and gearing will be the main difference compared to an endurance road bike. I don't see many/ any issues swapping out gravel tyres for 25mm or 28mm "road tyres" straight away. When my chainset goes on either road bike, I'll be seriously considering going for a sub compact to match the gearing of the gravel bike.

Tony04

onlineweb wrote: »

Would you recommend switching the Gravel bikes 38 mm to 25/28 mm when using it as a road bike?

No you dont need 38mm tyres unless your riding seriously rutted tracks with routes so theres no need for a gravel bike with 38mm tyres unless you plan on doing the above, but a bike sold to ride that kind of gravel is going to be designed for that so is never going to be the best road bike, yeh it will be adequate if your primary focus is off road stuff but is useless if your focus is club riding sportifs etc.

Tony04

Macy0161 wrote: »

A Gravel bike will most likely take mudguards, have pannier rack mounts etc., opening up commuting/ bike packing potential. The stock/ supplied tyre's and gearing will be the main difference compared to an endurance road bike.

So would a hardtail mountain bike and it also open up the possibility if riding pretty much any mtb trail over here and hardtails are generally much cheaper than gravel bikes.

Macy0161 wrote: »

When my chainset goes on either road bike, I'll be seriously considering going for a sub compact to match the gearing of the gravel bike.

You can just increase the size of your cassette?

Macy0161

Rear mech limits and already being 32 on the back of one.

Anyway, fwiw I have Alu Defy and Alu Topstone. Very little difference in geometry between them, and virtually identical weight (despite the Topstone being Tiagra v 105, and hydraulic v mechanical disc). If I had to pick one, it would 100% be the Topstone, given the versatility.

Someone starting doesn't know really whether they'll end up wanting to do trails/ fireroads, maybe try CX etc. That's why I'd always recommend Gravel over Endurance Road Bike, having blown my bike to work on the Defy and regretted it well within the 5 years.

I have previously had hard tails (and a full suss), and mainly rode fireroads with them and there's really no comparison to my gravel bike. And I definitely wouldn't do a long road spin with the limited hand position options, where as I'd have zero qualms about doing that on the topstone with a change of tyres.

Tony04

I get what your saying yeh but you have to know your willing to try off road. Like I got into mountain biking on a cheap hardtail I bought to pop wheelie one, then again off road near me isnt just fire roads but steep downhill paths that I wouldnt like a gravel bike or cx bike on at all.

Like let's say you have 1000 b2w scheme budget if your getting a road bike you could get the canyon endurace with 105 a gravel bike the cannondale topstone with sora

The canyon endurace would be a lot more capable than the topstone for long road rides and sportives. The topstone would be alot more capable offroad, although it is possible to do both on both, each have their niches.

And I mean gravel bikes are ridocusly overpriced for 1600 you could get one gravel bike with 105 maybe if your lucky or 1 rim brake road bike with 105 and a half decent second hand hardtail

MojoMaker

A lot of optimistic buyers of MTBs in this country think they're going to try "fire roads", the reality is 95% of those buyers don't, and come to realise the use case for a MTB they believed they had was mostly all in their head - fired up by CyclingPlus, BikeRadar, or GCN.

I'm not convinced that it's much different with gravel bikes. How many surface clichés can we trot out, about the same number of "canal tow paths" that exist? :pac:

cletus

MojoMaker wrote: »

A lot of optimistic buyers of MTBs in this country think they're going to try "fire roads", the reality is 95% of those buyers don't, and come to realise the use case for a MTB they believed they had was mostly all in their head - fired up by CyclingPlus, BikeRadar, or GCN.

I'm not convinced that it's much different with gravel bikes. How many surface clichés can we trot out, about the same number of "canal tow paths" that exist? :pac:

I think it's less so with gravel bikes. I'm not a member of a club, and I'm not really concerned with power, times, or competing at all.

I cycle just for the enjoyment. The gravel bike I have is perfectly happy spinning down roads, and I can maintain speeds of 26kph fairly handily, even though it's a heavier bike. But if I can get even 10% of my cycle "off road", I'm happy, and I like how the bike deals with the wood trails, canal tow paths, and bog land that's all within cycling distance of me.

There's plenty of opportunity to swing off the road and onto a track if you keep your eyes open and don't mind changing the route you had planned, or better again, looking for the smallest windy roads you can find on OSM

velo.2010

The OP is looking for a comfortable road bike to cycle around the roads of North County Dublin.

A road bike with the ability to take 30/32mm tyres — such as a disc brake bike — and relaxed geometry would be sufficient.

I think the OP initially saw only two extremes when mentioning buying either a gravel bike or a 'racer' bike. That has led to a confusing either/or debate which probably has the OP's head wrecked about deciding what to buy.

Gravel bikes are an example of the further segmentation of the bicycle market that has surely only come out of the US.

gaffmaster

onlineweb wrote: »

Would you recommend switching the Gravel bikes 38 mm to 25/28 mm when using it as a road bike?

It kind of depends on your goals and preferences, really. If you're trying to keep up with a group ride over distance, slick tyres are very important. The volume is apparently less important, but most decent readily available road tyres top out at 28c. But if you're riding alone and purely enjoying the scenery, the gravel tyres would be fine.

Carawaystick

I only know one road in North Dublin with a surface bad enough to warrant something with a bit more comfort wise than a road bike, theres a route down from opposite Garristown national school that was awful the only time I went on it

I've 28 on the back, 25 front and been everywhere on that, from a dry deep sinking out to Leixlip, Swords out to Kilcrea, to the wilds of the Sperrins

Macy0161

Different strokes for different folks. I don't see gravel bikes going anywhere soon tbh, as they are so versatile. If I had to have only one bike, it would be that. Yes, I prefer my TCR to the Topstone for a road spin, but it would be 50-50 between the Defy and Topstone with slicks. (edit - actually it wouldn't, I'd 100% pick the topstone, if I could justify a second wheelset!)

For me, "gravel" is everything I wanted mountain biking to be, but wasn't. Long days mainly off road (linked by tarmac) on fire roads/ trails/ open mountain with comfort. I tried mtb (in two different spells), and it just wasn't for me. Although ironically enough I get down stuff on the gravel bike that I wouldn't/ couldn't do when I had a full suss!

onlineweb

The difference between Gravel & Endurance bikes appear to be getting smaller.

The Giant Defy Advanced 1 2020 is now fitted with 32 mm tyres compared to 25 mm a few years ago.

https://www.giant-bicycles.com/ie/defy-advanced-1

https://www.giant-bicycles.com/ie/defy-advanced-1-2015

^ wow the 2020 model is a lovely bike !!!

Tony04

I think a lot of the thing is people see gravel and road bikes etc as completely separate different things when in reality each bike is just somewhere on a scale between an all out aero tt/track bike to a full sus downhill bike, ok that scale wouldnt be completely accurate and doesnt really take in to account functionality for commuting etc. but it still gives your a rough idea of what bike you need for what you'll be riding, like if you want to go on road and off road with only one bike the gravel bike is kind of that goldilocks in the middle.
Gravel bikes were successful as they found and filled a gap in the market between road bikes and mountain bikes.
So like the giant defy would fit in somewhere between your average road bike and gravel bike

byrnem31

onlineweb wrote: »

The difference between Gravel & Endurance bikes appear to be getting smaller.

The Giant Defy Advanced 1 2020 is now fitted with 32 mm tyres compared to 25 mm a few years ago.

https://www.giant-bicycles.com/ie/defy-advanced-1

https://www.giant-bicycles.com/ie/defy-advanced-1-2015

They cheaped out on the crankset also on the ultegra model just like my advanced 2 in where my crankset is not 105. Other than that, it's a lovely machine.

Macy0161

onlineweb wrote: »

The Giant Defy Advanced 1 2020 is now fitted with 32 mm tyres compared to 25 mm a few years ago.

I can fit 32mm slicks on my defy, but too tight for anything knobbly, or even high volume "gravel" slicks.

byrnem31

Macy0161 wrote: »

I can fit 32mm slicks on my defy, but too tight for anything knobbly, or even high volume "gravel" slicks.

What year and model defy is it ?

Macy0161

byrnem31 wrote: »

What year and model defy is it ?

2016 disc

ted1

byrnem31 wrote: »

They cheaped out on the crankset also on the ultegra model just like my advanced 2 in where my crankset is not 105. Other than that, it's a lovely machine.

And using cheaper mechanical disc As oppose to hydraulics