Irish roads and racers

onlineweb

Total beginner here, currently cycling a hybrid. I’m looking to upgrade.

I cycle on the north side up around the airport, Malahide, Swords, Clontarf and Howth. It can be a bit of an obstacle course with shores, potholes, cracks in the road and construction work.

I was told to steer clear of road/ racers as they can be prone to punctures due to the state of the roads and cycle paths.

Would you recommend a Gravel or Racer for North Dublin roads?

Wishbone Ash

onlineweb wrote: »

...Would you recommend a Gravel or Racer for North Dublin roads?

The roads of North County Dublin are no different to roads anywhere else in Ireland.Unless you plan on doing some off-roading, a gravel bike might be overkill.

byrnem31

onlineweb wrote: »

Total beginner here, currently cycling a hybrid. I’m looking to upgrade.

I cycle on the north side up around the airport, Malahide, Swords, Clontarf and Howth. It can be a bit of an obstacle course with shores, potholes, cracks in the road and construction work.

I was told to steer clear of road/ racers as they can be prone to punctures due to the state of the roads and cycle paths.

Would you recommend a Gravel or Racer for North Dublin roads?

People think that racers are fast. Yes they are on smooth tarmac. We don't have that over here. People thought skinny hard tyres are fast, they are on a roller being tested in a factory or again on smooth tarmac.

A bike that is fast in this country needs to be able to take out the vibrations of the rough road and adapt to it. Racers are not much use over here if you want comfort. They are for speed but if you are more comfortable, you go faster in anyway and the bike responds better. That's why cycling has moved away from skinny 25cc tyres and , 32 onwards is coming the norm.

So yes, you need a gravel or endurance bike if you want comfort. Cube and giant make both and have good models with big tyre clearance on them.

Weepsie

byrnem31 wrote: »

People think that racers are fast. Yes they are on smooth tarmac. We don't have that over here. People thought skinny hard tyres are fast, they are on a roller being tested in a factory or again on smooth tarmac.

A bike that is fast in this country needs to be able to take out the vibrations of the rough road and adapt to it. Racers are not much use over here if you want comfort. They are for speed but if you are more comfortable, you go faster in anyway and the bike responds better. That's why cycling has moved away from skinny 25cc tyres and , 32 onwards is coming the norm.

So yes, you need a gravel or endurance bike if you want comfort. Cube and giant make both and have good models with big tyre clearance on them.

Most of that is just not true though, and the many thousands of km done a week by people on "skinny tyres" is evidence enough.

Yeah bigger tyres are generally more comfortable, but that's not to say anything else is uncomfortable.

So long as you get the bike set up correctly, size wise, saddle height , choice of saddle etc.

And even at that, not all tyre compounds are equal so some bigger tyres are more uncomfortable than smaller ones.

Also factor in clothing, gloves, bar tapes. Can make a massive difference in comfort.

I say that as someone who has 37c tyres on 3 bikes, 28 on another and 23-25 on the one that is really the most pure racing bike. That bike is the most comfortable as it's set up better than any of the others and has been since the day I got it

ednwireland

bought cannondale synapse a few months ago and compared to my old racing bike the comfort is like night and day. jumped off one onto the other just to compare and you feel like you are getting beaten up .
and the focus cayo was a fave here many years ago.

Tony04

Racer and gravel is indistinct as they kind of overlap, the term gravel is kind of vague as road bikes are capable on mild gravel(badly paved roads), while gravel bikes could nearly be ridden down coilte mtb trails. I'm from the same area and have the one road bike which i use as a race bike and I've it set up that way narrow race tyres and the lot and it is capable for the roads around here and punctures and that arent an issue. However it's not plushly comfortable, which I dont mind. And I wouldnt bring it up some badly paved roads like the Ben of howth and paths, which is bit annoying but not worth changing the tyres for imo and my mtbs satisfy the need to go off road.

What kind of budget have you got? If I was getting one and only bike and wasnt racing it would probably be a gravel bike, or a xc hardtail. Are you planning on racing and joining a club? Then a road bike. Or going exploring? Gravel bike.

Wishbone Ash

byrnem31 wrote: »

People think that racers are fast. Yes they are on smooth tarmac. We don't have that over here. People thought skinny hard tyres are fast,

Totally disagree. I have six bikes. The fastest bike has the narrowest tyres. Wider tyres will give a bit more comfort but at the expense of speed. Comfort doesn't particularly bother me so I'll stick with 23/25mm. Do you seriously think bicycle manufacturers presume everyone is riding on billiard table surfaces?

onlineweb

I have about €1k to spend. I’d like to join a club when I get my fitness levels up however I’d also like to take it up the mountains on an adventure spin.

Tony04 wrote: »

Racer and gravel is indistinct as they kind of overlap. I'm from the same area and have the one road bike which i use as a race bike and I've it set up that way narrow race tyres and the lot and it is capable for the roads around here and punctures and that arent an issue. However it's not plushly comfortable, which I dont mind. And I wouldnt bring it up some badly paved roads like the Ben of howth and paths, which is bit annoying but not worth changing the tyres for imo and my mtbs satisfy the need to go off road.

What kind of budget have you got? If I was getting one and only bike and wasnt racing it would probably be a gravel bike, or a xc hardtail. Are you planning on racing and joining a club? Then a road bike. Or going exploring? Gravel bike.

byrnem31

Weepsie wrote: »

Most of that is just not true though, and the many thousands of km done a week by people on "skinny tyres" is evidence enough.

Yeah bigger tyres are generally more comfortable, but that's not to say anything else is uncomfortable.

So long as you get the bike set up correctly, size wise, saddle height , choice of saddle etc.

And even at that, not all tyre compounds are equal so some bigger tyres are more uncomfortable than smaller ones.

Also factor in clothing, gloves, bar tapes. Can make a massive difference in comfort.

I say that as someone who has 37c tyres on 3 bikes, 28 on another and 23-25 on the one that is really the most pure racing bike. That bike is the most comfortable as it's set up better than any of the others and has been since the day I got it

Gravel bikes have rocketed in sales the last couple of years as they are far more comfortable. I just sold one. Ive had 4 bikes in the last year, hybrid, racer, gravel and endurance.

Plus, tyres have got bigger as tyres tested previously were tested on rollers in factories and it was thought skinny tyres were faster. Now they are testing bicycle tyres on actual roads and have found a bigger tyre will grip the uneven road better providing, 1. better comfort and 2., more speed. That's a fact and I was watching a video about the tests only yesterday.

Plus when you are more comfortable on a bike, you cycle better therefore faster, longer etc.

Tony04

onlineweb wrote: »

I have about €1k to spend. I’d like to join a club when I get my fitness levels up however I’d also like to take it up the mountains on an adventure spin.

A gravel bike is overkill for you. Unless you want to ride stuff like the sand dunes on dolly mount the hiking paths in howth etc.

I would join a club anyway you get so fit so fast anyway.
Your local ones are dublin wheelers naomh barrog swords and clontarf.

1k including kit? Including the bike to work scheme?

Get an endurance road bike definitely, I'd reccomend hydraulic discs, they offer the best braking power out there. Although you can save money with rim brakes which are also perfectly fine.
Hydraulic discs would be hard to find on a road bike lower than 1k so would you be willing to go over 1k?

onlineweb

Tony04 wrote: »

A gravel bike is overkill for you. Unless you want to ride stuff like the sand dunes on dolly mount the hiking paths in howth etc.

I would join a club anyway you get so fit so fast anyway.
Your local ones are dublin wheelers naomh barrog swords and clontarf.

1k including kit? Including the bike to work scheme?

Get an endurance road bike definitely, I'd reccomend hydraulic discs, they offer the best braking power out there. Although you can save money with rim brakes which are also perfectly fine.
Hydraulic discs would be hard to find on a road bike lower than 1k so would you be willing to go over 1k?

Cool, will check it out.

What's the difference between a racer and an endurance bike?

Duckjob

Remember as well even on a road bike with skinny tyres you can vary your ride quite a bit by inflating your tyres to different levels.

I ride my road bike a lot on Nth Co Dublin roads. Inflating to my tyres max 120psi makes the ride rock hard. This can actually slow you down if the road surface is bad as you lose traction due to the tyres bouncing off the road surface. These days I inflate to around 100psi and find it both more comfortable and faster on those sort of roads.

P_1

Tbh for commuting a gravel bike is slightly more comfortable than a road bike, plus you get the added fun of being able to go offroad, it will be a bit slower though but depending on your commute length cycling will in all likelihood be quicker than driving. You're better off going for a steel frame than a carbon one though

Weepsie

byrnem31 wrote: »

Gravel bikes have rocketed in sales the last couple of years as they are far more comfortable. I just sold one. Ive had 4 bikes in the last year, hybrid, racer, gravel and endurance.

Plus, tyres have got bigger as tyres tested previously were tested on rollers in factories and it was thought skinny tyres were faster. Now they are testing bicycle tyres on actual roads and have found a bigger tyre will grip the uneven road better providing, 1. better comfort and 2., more speed. That's a fact and I was watching a video about the tests only yesterday.

Plus when you are more comfortable on a bike, you cycle better therefore faster, longer etc.

They've rocketed up in sales because people are going increasingly on trails and the sort. Comfort on the road is generally not the concern when buying a gravel bike.

They are also getting a massive marketing push, which is going to help.

As much as I wish surfaces were better, few roads are bad enough that you would need a gravel bike to be able to comfortably ride.

Again, not all tyres are equal regardless of size. Some 35c tyres are absolute dirt compared to some 23c tyres.

I'd take nearly any rubbish 23c types over any larger Marathon for comfort.

Wishbone Ash

Weepsie wrote: »

They've rocketed up in sales because people are going increasingly on trails and the sort....

It could just be a fad too. 30 years ago everyone was going out buying MTB's because of comfort. Most went back to road bikes again.

byrnem31

onlineweb wrote: »

Cool, will check it out.

What's the difference between a racer and an endurance bike?

An endurance bike is a more relaxed racer, and could have bigger tyre clearance. It's for long rides all day in the saddle and would tend to be more comfortable. There is a giant defy advanced 2 on adverts for just over a grand. That would be ideal if you could get it a bit cheaper.

byrnem31

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

It could just be a fad too. 30 years ago everyone was going out buying MTB's because of comfort. Most went back to road bikes again.

Many cyclist until few years back would have two possibly three bikes but with gravel bikes, many only need one. Gravel bikes I hope are here to stay. I've known loads of cyclist's who went out buying road bikes and found them uncomfortable which turned them off cycling. However, gravel although not the fastest are putting the fun back into cycling.

I have an endurance bike capable of gravel. During the week I was up at the hellfire cycling on gravel, two days later I was doing 60klm an hour home from blessington on the road. It was great craic although I did get a puncture at the Heller but that's the joys of cycling.

TGD

A lot of the distinction between 'racer', 'gravel', 'tourer' etc makes little or no difference to the 'casual recreational rider' and a lot of it is just marketing. There are differences but the variations won't make much of a difference or be much noticible by 'entry level' riders. I ride a bike that's use by top professionals on some of the classics, is fine for light gravel, cyclo-cross or light touring/bikepacking, with perhaps a change of tyres and maybe rear sprocket. Yes, it's isn't 'perfect' for all, but generally 'just grand' (it's a Trek Domaine disc brake for those who want to start arguing). After a while your preferences may become a bit more refined and you could upmarket.

A thing to look out for if it matters to you when choosing a road type bike is if it has mounts for full mudguards and racks. If you are not racing you are almost certain to need one or both of those in winter months, looking out tonight even summer months :rolleyes:

Tony04

onlineweb wrote: »

Cool, will check it out.

What's the difference between a racer and an endurance bike?

Ok I'll try and sum up alot of what you'll have to consider here.

So to any cycling enthusiast if you want to call us that you wont really hear us talking about racers, road bikes maybe yeh. The word racer is just used by non enthusiasts to describe anything that has drop bars and looks fast, for example my dad calls his gravel bike a racer.

But let's just take a racer as any bike capable of going fast in road races or in other words a road bike. Theres a few reason it's faster than your average hybrid commuter.
The main being tyres(rolling resistance), aerodynamics and weight and maybe gearing.
Tyres- as has been discussed in this thread the narrower it is generally the faster it is as theres less surface area so less rolling resistance, wider tyres generally let you run lower pressures which let's the tyre conform over rough surfaces and generally is more comfortable.
Aerodynamics- has a big impact on how fast you can go on your bike, basically is how air is deflecting off you when cycling so for example a bike with wide bars has more surface area and deflects air worse than a bike with drop bars so the bike with drop bars is going to be slowed down less and therefore go faster. However being in an aerodynamic position on a bike is more uncomfortable and harder to handle and therefore aerodynamics arent even considered in mountain bikes
as they rely on handling.
Weight- going up hill gravity holds you back so bikes are engineered to be as light as possible this achieved using more expensive materials such as carbon over steel etc. On a lighter bike hills will be much easier.
Gearing- being in the right gear will help you transfer power generated into the pedals to the wheels and therefore you go faster.
So different bikes will emphasize on the above differently and you get three main types of road bikes.

Aero bikes- is aggressively shaped and puts the rider in an aggressive aerodynamic position while it's not the most comfortable aerodynamics are advantageous for racing. Beginners should forget about these.

Climbing/ all round race bikes- usally the main emphasis here is weight so these bikes will perform best up hill in a more slightly comfortable position than aero bikes. Although nowadays most of these bikes are designed to be aero

Endurance bikes- put you in a more relaxed position for comfort. Pretty much all entry level bikes but some are less endurance oriented and more suited for racing.

Take in mind these categories arent really real and differences between these bikes arent that drastic.

Then theres a few things to consider about spec.

Namely.

Frame material: usually carbon vs aluminium. Carbon is more optimal as it is lighter stiffer etc. but is quite more expensive and the difference between aluminium which is much cheaper is marginal.

Brakes: disc brakes vs rim brakes disc brakes offer better stopping power and modulation than rim brakes but rim brakes are good as it is and much cheaper.

Groupset: brakes and drivetrain. Theres a hierarchy of products you should look up to better understand. But the more you pay the more features you get up to shimano 105 which uses the same features as pros would but pros would just have more expensive groupsets which use lighter materials. So a big thing to consider is paying more to get 10 speed tiagra with 2p gears or 11 speed 105 with 22 gears.

I can reccomend a bike for you also but would need to know a few things like how much you willing to spend ?what you would compromise on? Are you willing to buy a bike online, to save money? Are you using bike to work scheme?

Other thing is used bikes offer much better value for money but that market has dried up with the covid bike rush.

Tony04

byrnem31 wrote: »

Gravel bikes have rocketed in sales the last couple of years as they are far more comfortable. I just sold one. Ive had 4 bikes in the last year, hybrid, racer, gravel and endurance.

Plus, tyres have got bigger as tyres tested previously were tested on rollers in factories and it was thought skinny tyres were faster. Now they are testing bicycle tyres on actual roads and have found a bigger tyre will grip the uneven road better providing, 1. better comfort and 2., more speed. That's a fact and I was watching a video about the tests only yesterday.

Plus when you are more comfortable on a bike, you cycle better therefore faster, longer etc.

Main reason entry level gravel bikes are doing so well is there durability as they can take more of a beating i.e wider tyres less punctures etc and there accessibility with the b2w scheme, perfect for non cycling enthusiasts who have only one bike. Plus compared to xc hardtails they look more like 'racers' with the drop bars and narrower tyres. My dad is the perfect example of this he has a gravel bike he bought with the bike to work scheme which he calls a racer and tells me how the wider tyres are brilliant as they prevent punctures where in reality he never copped replacing worn narrow tyres and pumping them up high and avoiding potholes to avoid pinch flats.

G1032

Tony04 wrote: »

Tyres- as has been discussed in this thread the narrower it is generally the faster it is as theres less surface area so less rolling resistance, wider tyres generally let you run lower pressures which let's the tyre conform over rough surfaces and generally is more comfortable.

This just isn't correct
Wider tires have less rolling resistance and are faster. It's why most people are now racing on 25's and 28's rather than 23's or narrower.

See here on the Schwable website for more info
https://www.schwalbetires.com/tech_info/rolling_resistance

There are any amount of articles and studies you can find that'll tell you why wider is not only more comfortable but also faster

Of course wider tires are heavier, so not for the weight weenies

magicbastarder

G1032 wrote: »

This just isn't correct
Wider tires have less rolling resistance and are faster.

you're both right or wrong, depending on context.

narrow tyres do have less rolling resistance, but only if you're cycling on billiard table smooth roads. context is crucial.

i know this is gone a *little* beyond what the OP expected, but there are diagrams here drawn by an actual scientist:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3C5RzQrTvw

Tony04

Yeh narrower tyres deform more so at the same pressure they have higher rolling resistance than wider tyres but as they can take higher pressures there rolling resistance at their highest pressure is about the same.
But yeh running 23c tyres probably only make sense on freshly rolled tarmac, on rougher roads at a higher pressure while the rolling resistance would still be low the traction would be dire and your energy would be sapped.
What I meant in regards to the op who was mentioning gravel bikes was that 25-28c are going to be much faster than 35-38c. Like if wider truly had better rolling resistance why are fat bikes so slow, like I get there is more puncture thread and all but still?

magicbastarder

Tony04 wrote: »

Like if wider truly had better rolling resistance why are fat bikes so slow

weight.

Tony04

magicbastarder wrote: »

weight.

Yeh but they're still slower on the flat where weight is negligible apart from accelerating but weight shouldn't slow your average speed once accelerated to that.

To answer my own question fully pumped the rolling resistance on the tyre with the least puncture thread is about double that of a road bike tyre not bad considering it's about 4x the width.

https://bikerumor.com/2016/05/27/how-much-rolling-resistance-do-fat-bike-tires-really-generate/
Now I'll stop dragging this thread off topic

onlineweb

Cheers, thanks for all your comments. Very interesting.

I think I’m going to go for an endurance bike over a gravel bike.

I would like to join a cycling club when I get my fitness levels up. The endurance bike would probably be more suitable for these clubs. As they do circa 80 km to 100 km per meet up on the road.

Wishbone Ash

onlineweb wrote: »

.... The endurance bike would probably be more suitable for these clubs. As they do circa 80 km to 100 km per meet up on the road.

Most of the larger clubs will have several group rides of varying distances/average speeds depending on ability. For example average speeds may begin at around 20km/h and go up 30km/h for the fastest groups. Distance of group rides would typically range from 30km to 120km.

MojoMaker

Definitely an endurance road bike over a gravel bike if that's the direction you're heading in onlineweb. Gives you a great tool for sportives as well, something I reckon you'll get really into judging by your posts here.

TGD

The whole talk of whether tyres are fast or slow is very irrelevant at entry level. Those “tests” will perhaps show a 5-10 watt difference in efficiency and this ‘is neither here nor there” for the casual rider. Bigger tyres are more comfortable, however.

lissard

I do 95% of my cycling on Wicklow roads and a standard road bike does me just fine. If I needed to cycle offroad on sh*te surfaces I'd pony up for a mountain bike. An endurance geometry with 25mm tyres covers nearly everything you will encounter here in Ireland - outside of forests and farms we don't really do gravel roads in this country.