Keeping a crossbred stock bull

Neo Sanders

I'm thinking of keeping one of my own calves on as a bull to breed future replacement heifirs.

He's by ai bull curaheen gunshot. He's polled, a twin, very docile, 5 star replacement. His ma and grandma tick all the boxes.

The red one in the pictures attached.

Any opinions?

Neo Sanders

Neo Sanders wrote: »

I'm thinking of keeping one of my own calves on as a bull to breed future replacement heifirs.

He's by ai bull curaheen gunshot. He's polled, a twin, very docile, 5 star replacement. His ma and grandma tick all the boxes.

The red one in the pictures attached.

Any opinions?

pic is there now

carrollsno1

Neo Sanders wrote: »

Hopefully the pic is there now

Id nearly give it a go myself if i had a lad like it

squinn2912

Just noticed they’re 2 bulls. Great calves. You will likely have a lot of different colours but if you’re keeping on heifers yourself you’ll not mind

minerleague

Neo Sanders wrote: »

I'm thinking of keeping one of my own calves on as a bull to breed future replacement heifirs.

He's by ai bull curaheen gunshot. He's polled, a twin, very docile, 5 star replacement. His ma and grandma tick all the boxes.

The red one in the pictures attached.

Any opinions?

calves from "speakeasy" ( term used round here !) wont be consistent like pedigree . dunno if its hybrid vigour but you could end up with monsters or poor calves

Neo Sanders

minerleague wrote: »

calves from "speakeasy" ( term used round here !) wont be consistent like pedigree . dunno if its hybrid vigour but you could end up with monsters or poor calves

Yeah, I'm a bit concerned about calving, but I plan using on mature cows

Say my name

I'd have no issue with being crossbred.

But why would you want to be using a twin as a sire?
Surely twins in bovine genetics are more trouble than it's worth?
Harder calvings, more risk of mortality for cow and calf, longer open times for cows to go back in calf.
Why would you want that risk?

Neo Sanders

Say my name wrote: »

I'd have no issue with being crossbred.

But why would you want to be using a twin as a sire?
Surely twins in bovine genetics are more trouble than it's worth?
Harder calvings, more risk of mortality for cow and calf, longer open times for cows to go back in calf.
Why would you want that risk?

I'm surprised by the number of people who see it this way. To me twins are a bonus, and mostly work out well.

I had 5 sets last year, one calf was born dead. So I have 4 extra calves. The only cow of the 5 that needed assistance was the one with the dead calf. Twin calves are never massive, so once they're coming right they pop out.

No issues with the cows going back in calf. The one in the picture is due to calve 6 weeks earlier this year. I gave her a few nuts 3 days a week over the winter, when rearing the two.

If the cow is under pressure, one calf can be weaned early. It'll still be better than a bucket reared dairy cross.

So to me it's a risk wort taking to double the output from a cow.

Neo Sanders

squinn2912 wrote: »

Just noticed they’re 2 bulls. Great calves. You will likely have a lot of different colours but if you’re keeping on heifers yourself you’ll not mind

I've mostly red and yellow cows, so should be fine on them.

I think a lot of different colours is a feature of simmentals in general

squinn2912

You have it well thought through ill give you that. How many cows are you running? I’m guessing that his mum isn’t related to many if any. I love your attitude on twins. I’m trying to think back now but my experience definitely isn’t as positive as yours. Over the last few years I think one cow managed to rear both calves, nearly always lose one of them and it takes an awful work to get the other one going (you could have that with any calf I know). You’re a twin factory as it is that’s some amount of them for one year. I bought a bulling heifer last year and she is springing now, her mother had twins since and she is scanned with twins. I dread it. Milk shouldn’t be a problem though if we can get her calved ok. They normally come early and she is the first to calve so well need to be on the ball.

Bass Reeves

Neo Sanders wrote: »

I'm surprised by the number of people who see it this way. To me twins are a bonus, and mostly work out well.

I had 5 sets last year, one calf was born dead. So I have 4 extra calves. The only cow of the 5 that needed assistance was the one with the dead calf. Twin calves are never massive, so once they're coming right they pop out.

No issues with the cows going back in calf. The one in the picture is due to calve 6 weeks earlier this year. I gave her a few nuts 3 days a week over the winter, when rearing the two.

If the cow is under pressure, one calf can be weaned early. It'll still be better than a bucket reared dairy cross.

So to me it's a risk wort taking to double the output from a cow.

Looking at the two calves above you be at 100% weight weaned to cow weight in cases like that

jfh

I've had two sets of twins in the last 24hrs, both were brought inside as the mothers needs a bit of extra feeding, so more work but worth it

minerleague

Neo Sanders wrote: »

I'm surprised by the number of people who see it this way. To me twins are a bonus, and mostly work out well.

I had 5 sets last year, one calf was born dead. So I have 4 extra calves. The only cow of the 5 that needed assistance was the one with the dead calf. Twin calves are never massive, so once they're coming right they pop out.

No issues with the cows going back in calf. The one in the picture is due to calve 6 weeks earlier this year. I gave her a few nuts 3 days a week over the winter, when rearing the two.

If the cow is under pressure, one calf can be weaned early. It'll still be better than a bucket reared dairy cross.

So to me it's a risk wort taking to double the output from a cow.

would worry about twin aspect here but if u scanned cows and knew they were coming u could prepare. most twin sets here have had 1 coming backwards or some other delay but as u say not overly big

Neo Sanders

squinn2912 wrote: »

You have it well thought through ill give you that. How many cows are you running? I’m guessing that his mum isn’t related to many if any. I love your attitude on twins. I’m trying to think back now but my experience definitely isn’t as positive as yours. Over the last few years I think one cow managed to rear both calves, nearly always lose one of them and it takes an awful work to get the other one going (you could have that with any calf I know). You’re a twin factory as it is that’s some amount of them for one year. I bought a bulling heifer last year and she is springing now, her mother had twins since and she is scanned with twins. I dread it. Milk shouldn’t be a problem though if we can get her calved ok. They normally come early and she is the first to calve so well need to be on the ball.

'twin factory' lol.... Up until last year I only had a set every 2 or 3 years. I have over 60 cows.

I've never had a situation where I lost both calves and any that were born alive have survived.

I think the trick is, to keep a close eye on them. Which I try and do with all cows. So watch them at calving, give the cow a shake of nuts if she needs it after calving. Make sure both calves get beastings. Sometimes a twin calf will suck a bit elsewhere when they get going , but I'm fine with that.

If there's a bull and heifir I normally wean the heifir early and then sell her as a yearling. She'll have caught up by then.

The dam has a fair few half sisters in the herd. I didn't think crossing back on a half-aunt would be a problem????

Neo Sanders

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Looking at the two calves above you be at 100% weight weaned to cow weight in cases like that

I'd say fairly close, she's a big cow and heavy in calf, she's over 900 kg I'd say.

I'll be weighing them in a few days for the scheme.... So I'll let you know..

Neddyusa

Say my name wrote: »

I'd have no issue with being crossbred.

But why would you want to be using a twin as a sire?
Surely twins in bovine genetics are more trouble than it's worth?
Harder calvings, more risk of mortality for cow and calf, longer open times for cows to go back in calf.
Why would you want that risk?

Doesn't the twinning come down from the maternal line rather than from the sire of the cow though?

Say my name

Neddyusa wrote: »

Doesn't the twinning come down from the maternal line rather than from the sire of the cow though?

Have to be both.
Look at the Belclares.

Look at twins in humans.

Obviously the male won't give birth to twins. But his daughter will have that preposition.

148multi

minerleague wrote: »

calves from "speakeasy" ( term used round here !) wont be consistent like pedigree . dunno if its hybrid vigour but you could end up with monsters or poor calves

Calves from crossbreed bulls will be smaller

minerleague

148multi wrote: »

Calves from crossbreed bulls will be smaller

have no direct knowledge myself but older generation (father ) always insisted you could get a huge calf as easy as a small one with crossbred bull. have ye any concern for the poor pedigree breeders out there at all and they practically giving them away:p

Neo Sanders

minerleague wrote: »

have no direct knowledge myself but older generation (father ) always insisted you could get a huge calf as easy as a small one with crossbred bull. have ye any concern for the poor pedigree breeders out there at all and they practically giving them away:p

Ha ha, I've given plenty to the pedigree lads over the years.... Its so hard to get a bull that ticks all the boxes, that's why I'm thinking of keeping an animal that I know something about him.

I've had one bull pinning the calves against the wall as they came through the creep gate in the shed. Another nearly killed a cow because she jumped on another one that was bulling. Bulls that start growing their feet at 3yo. You don't want to be breeding heifers with that. These are all things that you can't know about at the time of purchase.

I know there are no guarantees with any animal, but breeding from a proven line in your own herd should be given more consideration imo.

squinn2912

Neo Sanders wrote: »

'twin factory' lol.... Up until last year I only had a set every 2 or 3 years. I have over 60 cows.

I've never had a situation where I lost both calves and any that were born alive have survived.

I think the trick is, to keep a close eye on them. Which I try and do with all cows. So watch them at calving, give the cow a shake of nuts if she needs it after calving. Make sure both calves get beastings. Sometimes a twin calf will suck a bit elsewhere when they get going , but I'm fine with that.

If there's a bull and heifir I normally wean the heifir early and then sell her as a yearling. She'll have caught up by then.

The dam has a fair few half sisters in the herd. I didn't think crossing back on a half-aunt would be a problem????

Twin boom last year then lol! Em yea we’ve rarely lost both unless once or twice born in the pen. Good herd of cows you know yourself then 45-50 here.

Hmm I dunno I’m not that keen on them being related at all but once or twice the bull here would have got at daughters. They’ve worked out fine but we don’t breed them

Neo Sanders

There seem to be a few people interested in how this experiment works out. So I'll give an update every 6 months or so to keep you posted on progress.

The calf has been named Barney (by the kids, but I may as well start calling him this also !!).... Barney was weighed yesterday, he was 395kg, his twin brother was 350Kg and mammy was 900kg.

The twin brother was castrated a few weeks ago, so I think this knocked him back a little.

They were born on 14/10/19. No creep was fed since turnout at the start of April. The calves got 0.5 lb/day of nuts over the winter. Mammy got 5lb 3days/week over the winter.

The mother is due to calve again 28/8/20.

Assuming birth weight of 40kg, that's a daily gain of 1.4KG/day, for Barney.

I hoping he'll be ready to work (for a few cows) by mid-Oct (when he's 1 yo), as I think I'll run him with a bunch of dairy cross calves that I have, so he'll get 2lb nuts/day over the summer.

His ICBF figures are attached and another pic of himself.

squinn2912

Neo Sanders wrote: »

There seem to be a few people interested in how this experiment works out. So I'll give an update every 6 months or so to keep you posted on progress.

The calf has been named Barney (by the kids, but I may as well start calling him this also !!).... Barney was weighed yesterday, he was 395kg, his twin brother was 350Kg and mammy was 900kg.

The twin brother was castrated a few weeks ago, so I think this knocked him back a little.

They were born on 14/10/19. No creep was fed since turnout at the start of April. The calves got 0.5 lb/day of nuts over the winter. Mammy got 5lb 3days/week over the winter.

The mother is due to calve again 28/8/20.

Assuming birth weight of 40kg, that's a daily gain of 1.4KG/day, for Barney.

I hoping he'll be ready to work (for a few cows) by mid-Oct (when he's 1 yo), as I think I'll run him with a bunch of dairy cross calves that I have, so he'll get 2lb nuts/day over the summer.

His ICBF figures are attached and another pic of himself.

Fantastic detail and performance!! I bought a pb sim bull to run with heifers and hopefully some cows next year. Thinking of a pb heifer to breed a bull. I’ll look forward to the updates and discussion about barney!

smallcows

I have to agree with you, I like to get twins. It might be a different story if I was milking

Neo Sanders

Well folks,

Long time since I posted here. Some good and bad news on Barney. I've 8 cows calved after him and he's breeding very well. Better than all bar one pb si bull I've had. (that bull is his grandad). His calves are fairly big, but only one got a pull.

I'll attach a couple of pictures of his calves.

The bad news is that he hurt his shoulder last winter. I needed a bull, so bought a pb lm. Barney came right eventually but I sold him as I didn't need 3 bulls and I was concerned the injury would reoccur.

He made good money, he turned into a fine animal, think he was 760kg when I sold him at around 20 months. I've a few nice heifir calves after him that I'll keep.

Overall I'd have no problem keeping a crossbred bull if hes good quality and has good back breeding. The calves are consistent and if his daughter are half as good as his mother, they won't be too bad.

BTW barney's mother had another set of twin bulls this year on 15/8/21 after my ch bull. That's 5 calves in 22 months. She back in calf again at this stage, but I might throw an ai sim on her next year to get another bull.!!

Did you see the lad on the fj this week that sold the breeding heifir for 18k. She was bred by a bb*lm bull. Maybe it the way to go??

IMG_20211201_125046.jpg

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IMG_20211201_125104.jpg

wrangler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/113785509#Comment_113785509

A bull puts enough semen into a cow to breeds loads of calves, it's the cow that decides the number of calves

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118288021#Comment_118288021

You are correct its the cow that directly decides whether she has one or multiple calves. But her gene to do that can come from either her sire or dam. The gene allows her to deposit one or multiple eggs into her womb, or to split an egg after fertilization(identical twins).

funkey_monkey

We've an older cow here that has just put out its second set of twins in 2 years. Two bulls last year and one of each this year. Just need to keep the food in front of them to keep the milk flowing.

DukeCaboom

My bull got very lame one year so I decided to put the very best white Ch bull weanling from the previous year with the cows. Awful idea I'd literally had no two calves the same and the calves were rubbish. It would have paid to buy or hire a bull for the month.

wrangler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118288441#Comment_118288441

My suckler quota was 15 higher because of an unplanned crossbred yearling bull in the reference year, all perfect calve out of his half sisters

Hard Knocks

Cross bred bulls can do a job, but you’d want to be fairly sure of the bull

Like the example of the 18k heifer, some have been using BBxLM E grade calf to get the super muscle calves, but not all come as good as the 18k heifer

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118288575#Comment_118288575

With beef value index from ICBF you would get an idea if the value of any crossbred bull. Genomic testing on top would help again. After that it the same risk as any other bull you buy.

In Canada and the US hybrid bull use is very common. In NZ and Australia hybrid Rams are used. You could back that back that we should used all pure bred pedigree cows instead of crossbred.

Easten

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118287889#Comment_118287889

PB bulls like the limousines are too cheap at the moment to justify running a crossbred. Judging by the pic of the red calf I'd say he's breading a very average calf. Lucky enough to have a calf on the ground which is a good thing as crossbred animals can lead to hard to severe calving difficulties, it's really a lotto with them. Maybe your cows are milky and can push on the calves, but a milky cow will push on the worst of stuff regardless of the breeding.

Margins are too tight in suckling to be running experiments on crossbred bulls.

Anto_Meath

Have had some very good cattle of "accidental crossbred" bulls, Had a lad a few years ago (75% LM 25%AA) he had a stone at the kidney so when he was squeezed we could only do 1 stone. He was a grand quite lad, but he did manage to bull 5 cows on us, 3 heifers and 2 bulls, kept the 3 cows and they all had a lot more milk than anything out of the PB LM. The 2 bulls were supper animals, long and square. But at the same time I am happier to use a PB bull that you have all the data on, as you can be more confident of the consistency of the calves.

Neo Sanders

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118288616#Comment_118288616

Eastern,

That pic of the red calf isn't very clear. Its a long wide shapey calf. The mother is a nice red lm cow. This calf is one of the best she had.

The lm bull that I bought cost 3k, he's a nice bull, also breeding well, but I had to pare his hooves recently as he was lame with an ulcer. He's 2yo. Not great genetics for his offspring. I've yet to buy a pb bull with a guarantee!!

patsy_mccabe

I have a neighbour that runs a good quality crossbred bull every year . He buys them in the local mart. One year all his heifers were so mad, he had to house them in a neighbours slatted shed during the summer, to fatten them up. He was afraid that if he let them off, they would hurt someone. The thing is, the bull himself was quiet enough. A real lotto with them.

Easten

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118288703#Comment_118288703

Paying 3k for a Bull doesn't mean anything, I seen poor Bulls at them sales making 5-7k regular enough especially at the Charolais sales. Then you could pick up a top class bull off Donedeal or in the Mart for 2k.

The guarantees you can get with Bulls are fertility test, genomic DNA'ed and the breeders evaluation from other references like lads that bought off him before. If you buy an aged bull you can see his calves on the ground.

But let you work away with the crossbreds, you'll get plenty here praising the calves but here's a guarantee for you, non of them will be buying them after or copying what you are doing.

If it was me, I'd be looking to keep a heifer not a bull from that cow as she obviously can milk and breed.

squinn2912

I think there is a bit of confusion about the kind of cross bred bull involved. If it were to be a calf that you bred yourself and knew the back breeding on both sides there is more of a case for it. Fair amount of people with the hybrid bulls but as far as I’m aware they are usually bred from PB on both sides. You do hear an odd horror story about them too. In this thread I mentioned a Sim bull I bought. Not dear but was just over a year old. He was ok for calving, some spring heifers got it hard to calve him but autumn ones no problem. I’m very disappointed with the calves though, particularly from spring heifers. Born on the big side and then melt away, the opposite way you want it. He was a pedigree with good breeding and all the rest of it but he didnt work out. I didn’t know too well what I was gonna do but then he went down with tb and I was near glad.

The oul lim bull had brilliant calves but the breeder told me his heifers wouldn’t make great mothers. So I suppose there might just be something in that by way of explanation but then they were picked from their mothers’ sides as well so I don’t think that’s as much the issue. Now it wouldn’t make me think of crossbred bull but it goes to show like it’s been said, plenty of poor pedigree bulls around too.

RD10

Bought a ch bull earlier this year. He is sired by Fleetwood and his grandsire is fiston.

Would it be ok to breed him with a cow that is bred by fiston? Or is that a big no no?

Neo Sanders

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118288818#Comment_118288818

"The guarantees you can get with Bulls are fertility test, genomic DNA'ed and the breeders evaluation from other references like lads that bought off him before" ... I currently have a PB CH bull that is doing a great job for me, and is delivering what the seller said, but lots of PB bulls with those guarantees breed poor quality calves, have poor temperament, turn out to have poor feet and f**k all milk in their heifer offspring. Putting a PB bull of any breed on crossbred cows of various breed composition, doesn't always result in a uniform batch of calves either. You won't know what a bull is going to be like until you have calves on the ground and if you're after replacements, until you calve some heifers after him.

I'm not expecting anyone to copy me nor am I looking for a clap on the back. I understand that a crossbred bull is less likely to bring uniform calves as his genetic make-up is more mixed. However I'm happy enough to try something different and see how it goes. I was trying to see if this bull from a proven dam line and a good AI SI bull would leave me some good heifer replacements. I've some nice calves on the ground and I'm going to keep them on as cows and we'll see how that goes.

The experiment didn't cost me anything. The animal was a twin to start with and he made €1820 in the mart in July. The bull calves will fit in with the CH and LM when they sell and I'd be more confident that his heifer calves will make good cows, than the ones from my maternal LM bull.

squinn2912

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118293432#Comment_118293432

Likely do no harm. Many bulls can have the same grandsire on both sides. We’ve had heifer calves bulled by their brothers or father and they’ve gone on fine. Obviously wouldn’t try to let that happen

Neo Sanders

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118292853#Comment_118292853

I like SIX cows and have had 4 PB SI bulls here over the number of years, in order to produce them. The first of that 4 bulls was a great bull and he made me. Left me great cows that tick all the boxes and are the backbone of my herd. The bull calves after that bull were top class also, unreal growth rate.

However it's hard to get a good SI bull. The ones i've had since were all disappointing, the main issue was lack of quality in the calves and one bull left cattle with poor temperament. His heifer calves turned out to be real contrary cows. One particular bull won his class in the pre-sale show, he looked a nice animal, but his off-spring were leggy and plain. So none of those bulls lasted long here. Hence the experiment with the crossbred bull. (and judging by his calves to date , he is better than 3 of the PB SI)

There is a fair element of luck with any of these bulls, but if you could get the right SI bull and cross on your LM cows, you'd have real nice cows from that cross. I think with SI bulls in particular, you need to have a fair bit of power and shape in the bull himself. I think avoid anything too tall. I'm sure there are people reading this that know better that I do what to look for. Also make sure he has a good milk figure, as not all SI bring milk either. Good luck with it. If you get a good one let us know the breeding.

Limestone Cowboy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118288757#Comment_118288757

I've had a couple of well bred lim bulls that I gave big money for that left plenty lunatics after them too so I wouldn't be reading too much into that patsy.

Gudstock

Ive been using a homebred SI "hybrid" bull for 3 breeding seasons, 2 crops on the ground, 3rd just started.

I got fed up with buying bulls, 1 bought private from a main breeder in another county - major feet issues, next 1 bought at a sale - completely infertile, last 1 bought local - super but cow & calf killer calving difficulty, almost left suckling/farming.

After that i had an AI SI x weanling bull off of a favourite cow that i would like all my cows to be like. Bull is 50 cent x blue lm ADX cow x SI x EDJ bb x SI. He has one F94L gene. He is marked light red and white like a normal sim.

No calving issues so far touch wood, used on strong heifers with no issues, i do try to keep a close eye on diet.

Works really well on cows with a muscle gene eg LMs or PTs, non myostatin cows have plainer calves. Colour while a lottery can be reasonably predicted, crossed on Sims will have white heads, crossed on lims or solid colour continentals will have a solid red colour calf with a white stripe on face. Some might only have a white star and just after having an all red heifer off of an all black LM cow with just a tiny fleck of white on forehead that you could only see if you look really close. You get e80-100 more for any of his bull weanlings without a whitehead. His heifers have the makings of good cows like his mother.

I was tempted to sell him a few months ago when mart bull price was good and trade to a pedigree LM for the same money but didn't, I'm quite fond of him. I intend to try more AI this year but will have a harder year keeping his heifers separate.

If you know the back breeding well on a hybrid and each of the cows in back breeding were good and you have an appreciation for what the colours would be i wouldn't have any issues using a hybrid. I'm half interested in sourcing a BB/LM X hybrid but yet to find the one for reasonable money.

squinn2912

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118293568#Comment_118293568

Thanks for that. I’m pleased for you that the crossbred bull is doing your job. You had a notion and had the stomach to give it a go so well done for that.

As you say you need luck with any bull. One thing about the SI bull he threw a lot of heifers and the autumn calves are good if not great. Mostly solid red with white faces so that is a bonus. My experiment with a SI bull is over for now. As I say that lad wasn’t dear and he got plenty back for me so I was lucky in a way. More heifers than bulls and the heifers were mainly out of heifers that were picked from their own mothers from the lim side of things so I’m hoping they all work out well. His breeding goes away back to Star Fanny and she bred some of those great Camus bulls including Camus Brandy so milk and maternally that should be a match.

We bought a Charolais bull in Tullamore so replacements might come from AI more so or we might change the lim bull. I’m not overly thrilled with him but he should do fine to run with heifers and second calvers and the Charolais fella will come into play then. So that’s the roadmap. My next little idea might be to go with shorthorn but that’s a craic for another day or thread!

Limestone Cowboy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118298856#Comment_118298856

If you're disappointed with the sim bulls you'll be disgusted with the shorthorns. It's nearly easier go out and buy the few replacements every year than be dealing with them, same could be said for the sims. Was at the sale in Gort few months ago and they weren't out of the way dear either.

squinn2912

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118298893#Comment_118298893

I’m told that too!! Not for the first time I’ll say when all is said and done you’re usually back to lim. As foolish as it is I do like the shorthorn cattle they’re very agreeable, I like the tradition and good maternally. The downside is a slope alright.

if they could all go like my lady here though

Limestone Cowboy

Fine heifer, good shorthorn cow is as good as any and you always have the option of keeping replacement off them again without losing all the milk. I'd face out and buy female stock before I'd run a shorthorn bull though. Have a grá for charolais cows bred off a shorthorn cow. Think it's better cross than limo on them.

patsy_mccabe

Anyone crossing Saler back and forth with Limousin? You could cross the more muscley Lim cows to the Saler and maybe the less muscley Lims with a Lim again. Before anyone says it, there is plenty of docile Saler now in AI, so they might not be stone mad. LOL.

squinn2912

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118299039#Comment_118299039

Aye she;s a lovely quiet girl too - out of sim fr so milk will be no issue either. Ah the shorthorn bull is probably not going to be a runner just a silly notion. I said it at a meeting and got some looks. I rather breeding my own replacements and buying in an odd one. Last few years about 12 and I think I’ve 9 that had calves and 7 of those good enough to stay. If we pick out 10 heifers every summer to bull and got 7/10 to work we’d be doing well there so it’s not a bad score.

I was gonna suggest that charolais with milk are a great cow. Char off fresian we had one of those and she was a flogger..

patsy_mccabe

Flogger ???