What are your views on Multiculturalism in Ireland? - Threadbanned User List in OP

Hamachi

TheCitizen wrote: »

Hilarious and you’re talking about egotism. The general population is not calling for a Referendun on immigration as far as I’m aware

Did I say that they were? However, you’re deluded if you believe that the sentiment amongst the general population is as positive to inward migration as it was say 20 years ago.

Speaking of referenda, we’ve had one instance where the Irish public had an opportunity to express themselves on asylum seekers entering the country in spurious circumstances. I’m sure you recall the results from 2004. Be interesting to see the results in 2020..

Hamachi

TheCitizen wrote: »

That’s the yellow vest brigade you’re describing there

Evidently, you have more in common with them than you realize. Two sides of the same coin.

TheCitizen

Hamachi wrote: »

Evidently, you have more in common with them than you realize. Two sides of the same coin.

Evidently? You know nothing about me? But typical straw man tactic

Danzy

Multi culturalism today is neoliberalism.

Without neoliberalism there can be no multi culturalism.

Without multi culturalism neoliberalism grinds to a halt.

Reagan and Thatcher are the parents of multi culturalism as we know it.

TheCitizen

Hamachi wrote: »

Did I say that they were? However, you’re deluded if you believe that the sentiment amongst the general population is as positive to inward migration as it was say 20 years ago.

Speaking of referenda, we’ve had one instance where the Irish public had an opportunity to express themselves on asylum seekers entering the country in spurious circumstances. I’m sure you recall the results from 2004. Be interesting to see the results in 2020..

Your first comment is wishy washy vague claptrap based on nothing.

Link me to this 2004 Referendum. Earlier you said you weren’t calling for a Referendum in the next post you are predicting the results to it based on nothing but wishful thinking on your behalf.

TheCitizen

Danzy wrote: »

Multi culturalism today is neoliberalism.

Without neoliberalism there can be no multi culturalism.

Without multi culturalism neoliberalism grinds to a halt.

Reagan and Thatcher are the parents of multi culturalism as we know it.

This has got to be some kind of “Godwinning” in itself. Since when did multiculturalism become almost universally accepted on Boards.ie as a bad thing, wonder how long this has been going on or was it always the case?

Hamachi

TheCitizen wrote: »

Evidently? You know nothing about me? But typical straw man tactic

The way you’ve engaged with others here is sufficient to convey the content of your character, to those consuming the thread.

Try easing up on the unsubstantiated insults and engage constructively. You might even learn something.

TomTomTim

TheCitizen wrote: »

Your first comment is wishy washy vague claptrap based on nothing.

You really need to look in the mirror. You've been making vague claims for months on these threads, while never citing any examples of your claims.

TheCitizen

Hamachi wrote: »

The way you’ve engaged with others here is sufficient to convey the content of your character, to those consuming the thread.

Try easing up on the unsubstantiated insults and engage constructively. You might even learn something.

Gas. You’re the one that insulted me and then you accuse me of insulting you. Place has gone to the dogs.

TheCitizen

TomTomTim wrote: »

You really need to look in the mirror. You've been making vague claims for months on these threads, while never citing any examples of your claims.

Actually like what exactly? What vague claims have I made citing no examples?

Oh aye, I need to look in the mirror while you go ignoring what the other poster said and engaging in whataboutery. I think there’s a lot of groupthink on here and it leads to arrogance and presumption, and they ain’t interested in looking in the mirror.

irishblessing

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

The migrants in Greece came there of their own free will, it was themselves who set fire to the camp and stopped emergency services getting access to it.

And now we are being asked to take these criminals in?

No thanks.

It's actually disputed to how that fire started, and it's also a fact that they had been there years living in inhumane conditions.

'Came there of their own free will..' This comment and the lack of empathetic likes is disgusting. Yeah, people ('criminals?' FFS sounds like Trump referring to people of Mexico) wanted to leave their own country and live in absolute inhumane squalor, including the over 400 unaccompanied children there too. Such free will to live their lives as they would choose.
One day tragedy will hit Ireland, I don't know when or how but those who display such little lack of love and concern for others should expect themselves and their family to stay and suffer and die. I wonder how many of you would call yourselves Christian. WWJD anyone??

TheCitizen

irishblessing wrote: »

It's actually disputed to how that fire started, and it's also a fact that they had been there years living in inhumane conditions.

'Came there of their own free will..' This comment and the lack of empathetic likes is disgusting. Yeah, people ('criminals?' FFS sounds like Trump referring to people of Mexico) wanted to leave their own country and live in absolute inhumane squalor, including the over 400 unaccompanied children there too. Such free will to live their lives as they would choose.
One day tragedy will hit Ireland, I don't know when or how but those who display such little lack of love and concern for others should expect themselves and their family to stay and suffer and die. I wonder how many of you would call yourselves Christian. WWJD anyone??

Yep. These people that have suffered terribly in this fire and your man you quoted labels them criminals. Disgusting.

Hamachi

TheCitizen wrote: »

Your first comment is wishy washy vague claptrap based on nothing.

Link me to this 2004 Referendum. Earlier you said you weren’t calling for a Referendum in the next post you are predicting the results to it based on nothing but wishful thinking on your behalf.

Ok. If poll after poll across Europe, indicates that the general publics are dissatisfied with current levels of inward migration and there is a clear rise in support for right-leaning parties, that suggests that there’s significant discontent. Feel free to dismiss as ‘claptrap’.

The 2004 poll on the 27th amendment to the constitution. It removed the right to jus soli citizenship and was instigated in response to asylum seekers arriving heavily pregnant to avail of Irish citizenship. > 79% of the electorate choose to close this loophole. I’m sure you know all this though..

This is the only piece of historical precedence avail to temperature check the Irish public’s sentiment on migration. Again, I’m not calling for a referendum on immigration. I want sensible policies implemented around both asylum seeking and economic migration, including removing those who do not fulfill the criteria to migrate here. Hardly controversial..

Zarco

Multiculturalism doesn't seem to be working out

Crime rates are high among the immigrants and they ghettoise themselves

TheCitizen

Hamachi wrote: »

Ok. If poll after poll across Europe, indicates that the general publics are dissatisfied with current levels of inward migration and there is a clear rise in support for right-leaning parties, that suggests that there’s significant discontent. Feel free to dismiss as ‘claptrap’.

The 2004 poll on the 27th amendment to the constitution. It removed the right to jus soli citizenship and was instigated in response to asylum seekers arriving heavily pregnant to avail of Irish citizenship. > 79% of the electorate choose to close this loophole. I’m sure you know all this though..

This is the only piece of historical precedence avail to temperature check the Irish public’s sentiment on migration. Again, I’m not calling for a referendum on immigration. I want sensible policies implemented around both asylum seeking and economic migration, including removing those who do not fulfill the criteria to migrate here. Hardly controversial..

What do you suggest that happens to these people that are gambling everything on trying to forge a life in Europe or other more developed parts of the globe. Are you saying they should be simply sent back to where they came from?

In my view we need a holistic solution to these issues which has to include the development of these countries these people are fleeing from. You were talking about “sentiment” earlier, I don’t see much of that sentiment on here.

Hamachi

irishblessing wrote: »

'Came there of their own free will..' This comment and the lack of empathetic likes is disgusting. Yeah, people ('criminals?' FFS sounds like Trump referring to people of Mexico) wanted to leave their own country and live in absolute inhumane squalor, including the over 400 unaccompanied children there too. Such free will to live their lives as they would choose.

Didn’t we cover this yesterday? You seemed to be in agreement that redistributing the Moria migrants across Europe was not the right path forward. As I recall, there was a broad acceptance that repatriating the migrants to remove them from the squalor of Moria and adjudicating their asylum claims from their homeland, was a sensible approach.

Seems relatively logical and Christian. How did we move from this to borderline hysteria about tragedies befalling Ireland?

ExMachina1000

Hamachi wrote: »

Didn’t we cover this yesterday? You seemed to be in agreement that redistributing the Moria migrants across Europe was not the right path forward. As I recall, there was a broad acceptance that repatriating the migrants to remove them from the squalor of Moria and adjudicating their asylum claims from their homeland, was a sensible approach.

Seems relatively logical and Christian. How did we move from this to borderline hysteria about tragedies befalling Ireland?

France and Germany have agreed to take some. Belgium said no and Denmark are sending money.

What happens with the next group? And the one after and the one after that?

Turn the boats around and protect Europe

Galwayguy35

irishblessing wrote: »

It's actually disputed to how that fire started, and it's also a fact that they had been there years living in inhumane conditions.

'Came there of their own free will..' This comment and the lack of empathetic likes is disgusting. Yeah, people ('criminals?' FFS sounds like Trump referring to people of Mexico) wanted to leave their own country and live in absolute inhumane squalor, including the over 400 unaccompanied children there too. Such free will to live their lives as they would choose.
One day tragedy will hit Ireland, I don't know when or how but those who display such little lack of love and concern for others should expect themselves and their family to stay and suffer and die. I wonder how many of you would call yourselves Christian. WWJD anyone??

Of course it was the migrants who started the fire.

They decided to cross the water into Europe, that was their choice so yes it was free will.

Greece isn't exactly a rich country and they were doing the best they could with the never ending numbers arriving on their shores.

Most of them are economic migrants who should be trying to gain access Europe the legal way if they want to improve their life.

The gateway into Europe needs to close or this will never end.

irishblessing

Hamachi wrote: »

Didn’t we cover this yesterday? You seemed to be in agreement that redistributing the Moria migrants across Europe was not the right path forward. As I recall, there was a broad acceptance that repatriating the migrants to remove them from the squalor of Moria and adjudicating their asylum claims from their homeland, was a sensible approach.

Seems relatively logical and Christian. How did we move from this to borderline hysteria about tragedies befalling Ireland?

Obviously Hamachi, the details and spirit of the comment I responded to reflected none of that.

The only hysteria here is yours, by hyperbolic posting, once again. Not at all surprised because that seems to be your default.

Hamachi

TheCitizen wrote: »

What do you suggest that happens to these people that are gambling everything on trying to forge a life in Europe or other more developed parts of the globe. Are you saying they should be simply sent back to where they came from?

In my view we need a holistic solution to these issues which has to include the development of these countries these people are fleeing from.

I actually agree with you on your latter point. The developed world has a responsibility to help less less affluent countries to improve living conditions and strengthen economically. This isn’t solely Europe’s responsibility. North America, the Far East, and the oil- rich Gulf States also need to engage here. This approach should dramatically reduce the push and pull factors around migration that exist today.

On the former, I already outlined my thoughts on asylum seeking and economic migration yesterday. In a nutshell, create safe zones in regions where asylum claims originate and adjudicate claims remotely. Provide safe, transparent passage to those who fulfill the criteria for asylum. Conversely, economic migration is entirely skills-based. You either have the required skill set or you don’t.

irishblessing

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Of course it was the migrants who started the fire.

They decided to cross the water into Europe, that was their choice so yes it was free will.

Greece isn't exactly a rich country and they were doing the best they could with the never ending numbers arriving on their shores.

Most of them are economic migrants who should be trying to gain access Europe the legal way if they want to improve their life.

The gateway into Europe needs to close or this will never end.

And of course, you may be wrong about that. Were you there?

And if you were in their shoes faced with life in your war torn country and death and suffering, what would you do?

Beechwoodspark

Having read multiple articles and news reports I’ve made my own mind up on how the fire started

As someone said earlier in the thread you’d hope certain fires on proposed Irish accommodation centres are being investigated with an open mind

TheCitizen

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

France and Germany have agreed to take some. Belgium said no and Denmark are sending money.

What happens with the next group? And the one after and the one after that?

Turn the boats around and protect Europe

Turn your back on them? Simple as that eh. Worryingly seems to be the prevailing view on these pages.

TomTomTim

irishblessing wrote: »

And of course, you may be wrong about that. Were you there?

And if you were in their shoes faced with life in your war torn country and death and suffering, what would you do?

I'd more than likely try and be respectful to my host and not burn down what they've given me. You apologists are really nothing but extremists yourself, who excuse everything under the guise of the hardship of migrants. Having it tough doesn't give you an excuse to cause chaos.

TheCitizen

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Having read multiple articles and news reports I’ve made my own mind up on how the fire started

As someone said earlier in the thread you’d hope certain fires on proposed Irish accommodation centres are being investigated with an open mind

Point us to one of these reports from a reputable outlet please.

The second sentence above is a repeat of the original scurrilous allegation. Sure keep throwing mud and some might stick approach.

Hamachi

irishblessing wrote: »

Obviously Hamachi, the details and spirit of the comment I responded to reflected none of that.

The only hysteria here is yours, by hyperbolic posting, once again. Not at all surprised because that seems to be your default.

I’m sorry, but who is posting about tragedies befalling Ireland and people looking for a way to to leave with their families? Did I make that statement?

My default has been fairly measured throughout. Please stop with the petulance irishblessing. It’s not becoming of a grown woman.

Beechwoodspark

TheCitizen wrote: »

Point us to one of these reports from a reputable outlet please.

The second sentence above is a repeat of the original scurrilous allegation. Sure keep throwing mud and some might stick approach.

It was on bbc,sky news and RTÉ all day yesterday citizen so if you look at news reports on the Greek migrant camp fire from yesterday you will see the reports.

I don’t have direct links (not IT savvy)

irishblessing

Hamachi wrote: »

I’m sorry, but who is posting about tragedies befalling Ireland and people looking for a way to to leave with their families? Did I make that statement?

My default has been fairly measured throughout. Please stop with the petulance irishblessing. It’s not becoming of a grown woman.

You know it's quite normal in the sheer scope of the world for economic, political or climate (or all 3 for some very unlucky souls) tragedy to befall a country of people. You think it's so strange to consider this happening here one day?

It's not petulance, and furthermore you need to stop with the name calling and hyperbolic posting Hamachi. It's not becoming of you, that's certainly the pot calling the kettle black.

ExMachina1000

TheCitizen wrote: »

Turn your back on them? Simple as that eh. Worryingly seems to be the prevailing view on these pages.

Yes turn them back. Create a processing centre outside of Europe. Morocco or Tunisia perhaps for African migrants. Establish who is a genuine refugee and who is a migrant. Genuine refugees can be sheltered and shielded until it is safe to return home. Migrants are informed to apply through the correct legal channels and given a warning that if they try and cross illegally again they will never be permitted into Europe.

There is my plan now you tell me yours

irishblessing

irishblessing wrote: »

And of course, you may be wrong about that. Were you there?

And if you were in their shoes faced with life in your war torn country and death and suffering, what would you do?

I think the point he's making is most of them aren't actually fleeing "war torn countries, death and suffering", but rather moving for economic purposes. I.E Economic migrants.