Life is too short

Ohio9

Strongly considering emigrating. I'm 23 years old. I cannot see a positive future here being punished for everything due to stupidity of the government.

Things that I lose compared to older generations:

1. More tax
2. Unaffordable housing: cannot afford a house in Dublin therefore I must move out and commute but here is the deal. You get punished for travelling to work with carbon taxes, inefficient public transport... which are going to quadruple very soon.
3. Diminishing returns: get absolutely demolished with taxation after certain point. So much so that it is not worth earning more for the effort required.

I believe there are far more reasonable solutions rather than punishing regular person who just wants to go to work and doesn't have another option.

I have 2 friends who have moved to California working for big internationals.

1. They make 3 times as me. Even with high taxation of California (Still much lower compared to Ireland)
2. No bull**** taxes punishing the average Joe, at least not crippling.
3. Medical insurance sponsored by the company
4. Not punished for travelling to work.
5. Cheaper housing in other states (Texas) this is where my company is headquartered.
6. Cheap cars and fuel and all other expenses cheaper with significantly higher salaries. I do not need to pay €3000 to insure a car.

2011

Stop taking about it and just do it!

Trigger Happy

Try moving to Ohio. It's cheap there. Bit of a dump, but cheap.

Signore Fancy Pants

Bye Bye

Ohio9

Signore Fancy Pants wrote: »

Bye Bye

Haven't moved yet, just considering.

Signore Fancy Pants

Ohio9 wrote: »

Haven't moved yet, just considering.

Youre not predetermined to succeed.

Adios.

Ohio9

Trigger Happy wrote: »

Try moving to Ohio. It's cheap there. Bit of a dump, but cheap.

All of usa is a dump according to many paddys who have never been there.

Ohio9

Signore Fancy Pants wrote: »

Youre not predetermined to succeed.

Adios.

Ok genius... your iq level is outside of human comprehension.

2011

Ohio9 wrote: »

Haven't moved yet, just considering.

What’s to consider?
Are you just going to keep procrastinating?

Junkyard Tom

Bring me back a surprise.

ewc78

If I was 23 again I wouldn't even hesitate I'd be gone.

Your Face

Do it. Let us know how you get on.

Speak Now

More tax than older generations? Yeah right!

Class MayDresser

Do it OP, I'll be advising my own to get out of here too. Let the liberals clean up the **** that's coming down the pipe.

Lyan

Ireland is a good place to be nowadays. All those foreign companies came to us. You can probably get a decent job just by barely skilling yourself in IT.

I Am Nobody

Ohio9 wrote: »

Strongly considering emigrating. I'm 23 years old. I cannot see a positive future here being punished for everything due to stupidity of the government.

Things that I lose compared to older generations:

1. More tax
2. Unaffordable housing: cannot afford a house in Dublin therefore I must move out and commute but here is the deal. You get punished for travelling to work with carbon taxes, inefficient public transport... which are going to quadruple very soon.
3. Diminishing returns: get absolutely demolished with taxation after certain point. So much so that it is not worth earning more for the effort required.

I believe there are far more reasonable solutions rather than punishing regular person who just wants to go to work and doesn't have another option.

I have 2 friends who have moved to California working for big internationals.

1. They make 3 times as me. Even with high taxation of California (Still much lower compared to Ireland)
2. No bull**** taxes punishing the average Joe, at least not crippling.
3. Medical insurance sponsored by the company
4. Not punished for travelling to work.
5. Cheaper housing in other states (Texas) this is where my company is headquartered.
6. Cheap cars and fuel and all other expenses cheaper with significantly higher salaries. I do not need to pay €3000 to insure a car.

If that is your age then you should.Go out and see the world and all the experiences it offers.And who knows maybe along the way you find yourself and what you want to do with your life.And I truly mean that and hope the best for you.

Irish Praetorian

Class MayDresser wrote: »

Do it OP, I'll be advising my own to get out of here too. Let the liberals clean up the **** that's coming down the pipe.

You're going to suggest he flee to California, from Ireland, to escape 'the liberals'? Of course, I mean famously California is known for having neither a tradition of civic liberal zealotry nor hosting the international hub of feel good celebrity culture.

On a more serious note, migration might be worth considering, I'd suggest reading a few expat forums and see how others have handled it, but don't expect it to be all rosy either.

screamer

The whole world is going down the **** pipe at the moment. With a rising global population there’s less and less to go around and it’ll keep going That way. All depends on what you want out of life. Having been to California on numerous occasions I couldn’t stand the general way of life, not for me at all. It’s horses for courses. If you think it’s a **** hole here off you go and find somewhere you do like.

Lundstram

Our welfare bill is out of control but no government will dare tackle that because there would be uproar. The ordinary working Joe and Mary will keep on paying, it will never change. Get out now, OP. Get a good degree under your belt and hit the road. Ireland is not a good place to be if you have a job paying 25-60k.

c.p.w.g.w

Lundstram wrote: »

Our welfare bill is out of control but no government will dare tackle that because there would be uproar. The ordinary working Joe and Mary will keep on paying, it well never change. Get out now, OP. Get a good degree under your belt and hit the road. Ireland is not a good place to be if you have a job paying 25-60k.

While I was earning 28k a year and my misses was on 20k were secured a mortgage...now we are on a combined 78k after both moving to new jobs...we will likely be mortgage free before we are 40...Not in Dublin mind, but I dislike Dublin and would find it hard to live there for a variety of reasons

CBear1993

Lyan wrote: »

Ireland is a good place to be nowadays. All those foreign companies came to us. You can probably get a decent job just by barely skilling yourself in IT.

Why would you want to though? Dublin is safe, but a ****hole.

You can move away from Ireland for 5 years and come back, and in the grand scheme of things, absolutely nothing changes

Lundstram

c.p.w.g.w wrote: »

While I was earning 28k a year and my misses was on 20k were secured a mortgage...now we are on a combined 78k after both moving to new jobs...we will likely be mortgage free before we are 40...Not in Dublin mind, but I dislike Dublin and would find it hard to live there for a variety of reasons

I wouldn't live or work there if you paid me but a quarter of the country does. I've no idea how anyone there has a decent quality of life on 35k and under.

Fact of the matter is there's too many people in this country getting council housing which costs very little and the other half (middle income earners) pays for this along with their own!

Lyan

CBear1993 wrote: »

Why would you want to though? Dublin is safe, but a ****hole.

You can move away from Ireland for 5 years and come back, and in the grand scheme of things, absolutely nothing changes

They are outside Dublin too you just have to look for them. Or have a recruiter bring them to you.

Dr. Bre

Ohio9 wrote: »

Strongly considering emigrating. I'm 23 years old. I cannot see a positive future here being punished for everything due to stupidity of the government.

Things that I lose compared to older generations:

1. More tax
2. Unaffordable housing: cannot afford a house in Dublin therefore I must move out and commute but here is the deal. You get punished for travelling to work with carbon taxes, inefficient public transport... which are going to quadruple very soon.
3. Diminishing returns: get absolutely demolished with taxation after certain point. So much so that it is not worth earning more for the effort required.

I believe there are far more reasonable solutions rather than punishing regular person who just wants to go to work and doesn't have another option.

I have 2 friends who have moved to California working for big internationals.

1. They make 3 times as me. Even with high taxation of California (Still much lower compared to Ireland)
2. No bull**** taxes punishing the average Joe, at least not crippling.
3. Medical insurance sponsored by the company
4. Not punished for travelling to work.
5. Cheaper housing in other states (Texas) this is where my company is headquartered.
6. Cheap cars and fuel and all other expenses cheaper with significantly higher salaries. I do not need to pay €3000 to insure a car.

Stay at home

Mongfinder General

Life. It's the longest think anybody ever does. Apart from being dead. Unfortunately, most of western civilisation is headed the same way. The concept of ineptocracy would not have been tolerated 20 years ago. But we are actively pursuing it now. Just look at South Africa today.

jrosen

You should absolutely go, experience living in another country. Its a wonderful opportunity for personal growth. You will also see that the grass is not always greener.

Ohio9

Ohio9 wrote: »

Life is too short

Is it?

Tell me _one_ thing you will ever do that takes longer?

the-island-man

You should go and experience living somewhere else. It might be better and it might be worse but you won't know until you try!

Ireland definitely has problems but you may realise in time that it's all relative. Out of ~8 billion people on the planet, there are 450 million people living in an EU nation. So you had less than a 1 in 16 chance of being born in a country where there is some kind of social protections, working standards and quality of life.

I'd take an EU country anyday over a country ravaged by war and corruption.

CBear1993

the-island-man wrote: »

You should go and experience living somewhere else. It might be better and it might be worse but you won't know until you try!

Ireland definitely has problems but you may realise in time that it's all relative. Out of ~8 billion people on the planet, there are 450 million people living in an EU nation. So you had less than a 1 in 16 chance of being born in a country where there is some kind of social protections, working standards and quality of life.

I'd take an EU country anyday over a country ravaged by war and corruption.

Australia , Canada and New Zealand prob the exceptions to that, great opportunities there

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Is it?

Tell me _one_ thing you will ever do that takes longer?

Fully decompose :pac:

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Fully decompose :pac:

I wont be doing it

If I was I might try to distill it. Just to see what might happen.

FFVII

jrosen wrote: »

You should absolutely go, experience living in another country. Its a wonderful opportunity for personal growth. You will also see that the grass is not always greener.

Go for this really.


Your lists are bollox.

olestoepoke

Ohio9 wrote: »

Strongly considering emigrating. I'm 23 years old. I cannot see a positive future here being punished for everything due to stupidity of the government.

Things that I lose compared to older generations:

1. More tax
2. Unaffordable housing: cannot afford a house in Dublin therefore I must move out and commute but here is the deal. You get punished for travelling to work with carbon taxes, inefficient public transport... which are going to quadruple very soon.
3. Diminishing returns: get absolutely demolished with taxation after certain point. So much so that it is not worth earning more for the effort required.

I believe there are far more reasonable solutions rather than punishing regular person who just wants to go to work and doesn't have another option.

I have 2 friends who have moved to California working for big internationals.

1. They make 3 times as me. Even with high taxation of California (Still much lower compared to Ireland)
2. No bull**** taxes punishing the average Joe, at least not crippling.
3. Medical insurance sponsored by the company
4. Not punished for travelling to work.
5. Cheaper housing in other states (Texas) this is where my company is headquartered.
6. Cheap cars and fuel and all other expenses cheaper with significantly higher salaries. I do not need to pay €3000 to insure a car.

I emigrated when I was around your age and spent almost 16 years living in New York. Looking back it was the best decision I've ever made. Go for it, do it now whilst you can before children show up. If it's Dell you work for then its Austin Texas.I was there for a week a few years back and met a good few Irish people working and living there. Austin is a great town.

the-island-man

CBear1993 wrote: »

Australia , Canada and New Zealand prob the exceptions to that, great opportunities there

True and there's also exceptions if you're lucky to be born into wealth in a poor country but the general point I was making was that you have a greater chance of being born into a life with a far lower quality of life than what the average person would experience in Ireland. Has to make you feel lucky in life.

FFVII

olestoepoke wrote: »

I emigrated when I was around your age and spent almost 16 years living in New York. Looking back it was the best decision I've ever made.

why?

olestoepoke

FFVII wrote: »

why?

I didn't emigrate for financial reasons. I had a good job here in Ireland that paid well. I went for the sense of adventure, I was young and single and that period in my life was exciting. I worked as a carpenter, played GAA in the Bronx and enjoyed my weekends in Manhattan. The summers were fantastic, everything was new and exciting. After a few years that wore off and I travelled all around the US . Went to a Mardi Gras in New Orleans, nightclubbing in Miami, seen the Grand Canyon, stag party's in Las Vegas, trips to Austin Texas and Nashville Tennesse, seen the giant redwoods and Napa valley of northern california. Camping in Yosemite valley. I could go on. All these great memories whilst making twice the money I'd have been making in Ireland and half the cost of living. Thats why.

matchthis

If only 23 and no ties here, why not try it for a year and see how you get on. Ireland will still be here

bpmurray

Wow - such inaccuracies. Let's address each of your points.

Lost compared to older generations (I'm actually one of those, so ...):

1. More tax
Tax in Ireland now is *MUCH* lower than it used to be. What exactly are you claiming here?
2. Unaffordable housing: cannot afford a house in Dublin therefore I must move out and commute but here is the deal. You get punished for travelling to work with carbon taxes, inefficient public transport... which are going to quadruple very soon.
Housing has always been unaffordable. Granted, prices have gone up steeply the past decade, but so have incomes. It took me a long time before I managed to get a mortgage, despite earning what was then a nice salary. That's why I live in the boonies - I could never afford something in Dublin.
3. Diminishing returns: get absolutely demolished with taxation after certain point. So much so that it is not worth earning more for the effort required.
Bollacks! If you are in that situation, get an accountant. Then see how much your diminishing returns are - you'll be shocked.

And then the fantasies about California. I have loads of friends and ex-colleagues who are living & working in CA and, from them:
1. They make 3 times as me. Even with high taxation of California (Still much lower compared to Ireland)
Yes, but actually only the top few earn that much. The ordinary folk don't. I have friends who work in Google, Facebook, Stripe, etc. and their salaries are pretty good. However, they can barely make ends meet with their large 6-figure salaries because of the insane cost of housing. If you think Dublin is expensive, prices in SF would make your eyes water.
2. No bull**** taxes punishing the average Joe, at least not crippling.
Actually, depending on which state you live in, your taxes could easily be higher than in Ireland. And for that you get pretty much nothing: People complain about roads here, but many major highways in the US are riddled with potholes; Healthcare is terrifyingly expensive; Education is paid from town taxes, so unless you live in a wealthy suburb, schools are crap; and there's plenty more. No taxes in Ireland are crippling.
3. Medical insurance sponsored by the company
Did you know that you're employed "at will" in the USA? That means that literally from one minute to the next you can suddenly become unemployed, i.e. you lose your medical insurance. And if you happen to have developed some illness while you were covered, good luck with finding another insurance company to cover you when you get another job. And don't forget: even though your health insurance is covered, it's not covered 100% - apart from co-pays (the amount you pay to the doctor, about the same as you pay here), you'll typically have to pay another $1000 per month to top up your insurance.
4. Not punished for travelling to work.
No, nor are you here. However, the traffic there is pretty heavy, and Americans often travel 50 miles or more to work, so don't forget to factor in your commute time. And, of course, public transport is pretty much non-existent in many cities - your friends in CA may have BART but that's the exception.
5. Cheaper housing in other states (Texas) this is where my company is headquartered.
Sure, and housing in N.Dakota is even cheaper. I'm not very familiar with TX but I believe that housing costs in "nice" areas isn't particularly cheap. And towns with good education systems are more expensive still. Of course, if you live in TX, you'll be surrounded by Trump supporters who are armed - not the most attractive option.
6. Cheap cars and fuel and all other expenses cheaper with significantly higher salaries. I do not need to pay €3000 to insure a car.
The only state I ever had to insure a care was MA and it was twice what I paid in Ireland - you need loads of add-ons. So I doubt that you'll find rock-bottom rates in the US. Cars used to be cheap but they aren't any more. Second hand cars are cheaper than Ireland but not hugely. Fuel is much cheaper. And that's probably the only point you've made that's completely correct.

Trigger Happy

Ohio9 wrote: »

All of usa is a dump according to many paddys who have never been there.

Yup, I can testify...ohio is a dump.

CBear1993

bpmurray wrote: »

Wow - such inaccuracies. Let's address each of your points.

Lost compared to older generations (I'm actually one of those, so ...):

1. More tax
Tax in Ireland now is *MUCH* lower than it used to be. What exactly are you claiming here?
2. Unaffordable housing: cannot afford a house in Dublin therefore I must move out and commute but here is the deal. You get punished for travelling to work with carbon taxes, inefficient public transport... which are going to quadruple very soon.
Housing has always been unaffordable. Granted, prices have gone up steeply the past decade, but so have incomes. It took me a long time before I managed to get a mortgage, despite earning what was then a nice salary. That's why I live in the boonies - I could never afford something in Dublin.
3. Diminishing returns: get absolutely demolished with taxation after certain point. So much so that it is not worth earning more for the effort required.
Bollacks! If you are in that situation, get an accountant. Then see how much your diminishing returns are - you'll be shocked.

And then the fantasies about California. I have loads of friends and ex-colleagues who are living & working in CA and, from them:
1. They make 3 times as me. Even with high taxation of California (Still much lower compared to Ireland)
Yes, but actually only the top few earn that much. The ordinary folk don't. I have friends who work in Google, Facebook, Stripe, etc. and their salaries are pretty good. However, they can barely make ends meet with their large 6-figure salaries because of the insane cost of housing. If you think Dublin is expensive, prices in SF would make your eyes water.
2. No bull**** taxes punishing the average Joe, at least not crippling.
Actually, depending on which state you live in, your taxes could easily be higher than in Ireland. And for that you get pretty much nothing: People complain about roads here, but many major highways in the US are riddled with potholes; Healthcare is terrifyingly expensive; Education is paid from town taxes, so unless you live in a wealthy suburb, schools are crap; and there's plenty more. No taxes in Ireland are crippling.
3. Medical insurance sponsored by the company
Did you know that you're employed "at will" in the USA? That means that literally from one minute to the next you can suddenly become unemployed, i.e. you lose your medical insurance. And if you happen to have developed some illness while you were covered, good luck with finding another insurance company to cover you when you get another job. And don't forget: even though your health insurance is covered, it's not covered 100% - apart from co-pays (the amount you pay to the doctor, about the same as you pay here), you'll typically have to pay another $1000 per month to top up your insurance.
4. Not punished for travelling to work.
No, nor are you here. However, the traffic there is pretty heavy, and Americans often travel 50 miles or more to work, so don't forget to factor in your commute time. And, of course, public transport is pretty much non-existent in many cities - your friends in CA may have BART but that's the exception.
5. Cheaper housing in other states (Texas) this is where my company is headquartered.
Sure, and housing in N.Dakota is even cheaper. I'm not very familiar with TX but I believe that housing costs in "nice" areas isn't particularly cheap. And towns with good education systems are more expensive still. Of course, if you live in TX, you'll be surrounded by Trump supporters who are armed - not the most attractive option.
6. Cheap cars and fuel and all other expenses cheaper with significantly higher salaries. I do not need to pay €3000 to insure a car.
The only state I ever had to insure a care was MA and it was twice what I paid in Ireland - you need loads of add-ons. So I doubt that you'll find rock-bottom rates in the US. Cars used to be cheap but they aren't any more. Second hand cars are cheaper than Ireland but not hugely. Fuel is much cheaper. And that's probably the only point you've made that's completely correct.

If you’re trying to someway advocate young people to stay in Ireland that’s a losing battle. I would advise anyone under 30 to definitely get out of here while they can and at least try it. Nothing to be gained sitting here except a future of “what if’s”

HBC08

Ohio9 wrote: »

Strongly considering emigrating. I'm 23 years old. I cannot see a positive future here being punished for everything due to stupidity of the government.

Things that I lose compared to older generations:

1. More tax
2. Unaffordable housing: cannot afford a house in Dublin therefore I must move out and commute but here is the deal. You get punished for travelling to work with carbon taxes, inefficient public transport... which are going to quadruple very soon.
3. Diminishing returns: get absolutely demolished with taxation after certain point. So much so that it is not worth earning more for the effort required.

I believe there are far more reasonable solutions rather than punishing regular person who just wants to go to work and doesn't have another option.

I have 2 friends who have moved to California working for big internationals.

1. They make 3 times as me. Even with high taxation of California (Still much lower compared to Ireland)
2. No bull**** taxes punishing the average Joe, at least not crippling.
3. Medical insurance sponsored by the company
4. Not punished for travelling to work.
5. Cheaper housing in other states (Texas) this is where my company is headquartered.
6. Cheap cars and fuel and all other expenses cheaper with significantly higher salaries. I do not need to pay €3000 to insure a car.

As somebody who left Ireland for the other side of the world at 23 let me give you some advice....just do it,you're young enough that you can come home and start with a clean slate if it doesn't work out.
Also let me make an observation,moany,negative coonts here also tend to be moany coonts who dont go far in life when they're away.

irishguitarlad

I'd be looking at Continental Europe Op.

beauf

2011 wrote: »

Stop taking about it and just do it!

https://youtu.be/10DQeSk1LaY

Couldn't say it better...

FFVII

beauf wrote: »

https://youtu.be/10DQeSk1LaY

Couldn't say it better...

This is better

Figel Narage

irishguitarlad wrote: »

I'd be looking at Continental Europe Op.

Yeah me too. America has never been appealing to me. All the places where you'd want to live, ie. New York, Chicago, LA/San Fran, all seem expensive. Could even apply that to anywhere majority of Irish people move to, Toronto, Vancouver, Sydney, Melbourne, all nice places but expensive. If, I personally were to move, it would be somewhere warm where I can continue my career in preferably Europe which, unfortunately, Europe doesn't offer bar one or two places due to language barriers. But for OP's situation, I'd be all for Europe, got everything you want if it's just a year or two excursion

Greyfox

Salvatore Refined Scatterbrain wrote: »

It's the longest thing you'll ever do..

True but every old person will tell you that the years have past way too fast. Everyone should try to travel when their young but great places like America, Canada or Dubai also have their disadvantages.

Potential-Monke

As someone who, at 37, is now too old to get a working visa for a lot of countries, I have massive regret for not fecking off. I was considering Canada or Japan, but i'm too old for both now (35 is the cut off). Not sure about other countries, but not fecking off is up there with some of the worst decisions of my life so far. Do it OP, get out, experience life, and you can always come back.

pgj2015

Potential-Monke wrote: »

As someone who, at 37, is now too old to get a working visa for a lot of countries, I have massive regret for not fecking off. I was considering Canada or Japan, but i'm too old for both now (35 is the cut off). Not sure about other countries, but not fecking off is up there with some of the worst decisions of my life so far. Do it OP, get out, experience life, and you can always come back.

could you not just go now on holiday? stay a month or so if you have friends in canada, australia etc. what big difference would it be if you lived in canada for a year or if you stayed there on holiday for a month? The grass is always greener.

i never worked abroad and dont regret it at all, but i have friends in the U.S., canada, australia, im just going to go visit my friends and stay with them for a while in the next couple of years.

Potential-Monke

pgj2015 wrote: »

could you not just go now on holiday? stay a month or so if you have friends in canada, australia etc. what big difference would it be if you lived in canada for a year or if you stayed there on holiday for a month? The grass is always greener.

i never worked abroad and dont regret it at all, but i have friends in the U.S., canada, australia, im just going to go visit my friends and stay with them for a while in the next couple of years.

Visiting is one thing. I can visit any country I want at any time. Working and living there is a different experience. I do intend to visit a friend in Canada at some stage. And I will definitely be in Japan for a holiday (preferably 6 weeks, expensive!!). But it won't be the same as living there, it will still have that 'Oh shiney' vibe unless you've lived and worked there imo.

Queasy Tadpole

You sound like a 23 year old child who has not had life slap them in the face yet.

Don't worry, it will.

pgj2015

Potential-Monke wrote: »

Visiting is one thing. I can visit any country I want at any time. Working and living there is a different experience. I do intend to visit a friend in Canada at some stage. And I will definitely be in Japan for a holiday (preferably 6 weeks, expensive!!). But it won't be the same as living there, it will still have that 'Oh shiney' vibe unless you've lived and worked there imo.

For me a lot of the time being there if working is wasted working and travelling to work, the boring bits. if you go on holiday all the time is yours to do what you want with.