Police Shooting USA. Rayshard Brooks.

GreeBo

iebamm2580 wrote: »

what if they let him run off and he uses the taser on some innocent passerby, would that be ok?

Ahh the old "what-if" argument, seems legit reason to shoot someone.

GreeBo

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Why would he drink drive,
Why would he attack the police
Why would he steal there taser
Why would he fire it at them
Why would he beat his wife
Why would he beat his kids
Why would he commit crime after crime for a ten year period ,


The guy acted like a lunatic because he was a lunatic, he was liable to do anything ,

The guy was drunk, nothing else he did in his past is relevant to killing him

I Am Nobody

Stateofyou wrote: »

Where's the link about the kid torture I asked for?

No, the Cops escalated. He was drunk, they were sober. It's their job, or it should be, to de-escalate. As they are demonstrably able to do more often with white people. He didn't need to be arrested for one. He was calm and should have been able to go home.
Two, do you have any idea the level of fear black people feel right now over interactions with the police and being arrested? It would take a lot of empathy to understand at that level because if you're white like me, we have and will never have to face that kind of fear. And once again, he was drunk and wasn't rational. I've been pissed drunk. Bet you have? How many of us have been absolutely P*ssed and done or said something we shouldn't have. It shouldn't equal a death sentence.
I know your statement to be false about violating conditions of release and getting arrested, because I lived in the US for many years and I personally know people are speaking up about this that had similar pasts (obv reformed) and that didn't happen to them.
Yeah, it matters that he missed. Police can track him down, they know where he lives. Where he works. They could run after him. They could taser him first (another cop there, remember?) but they didn't even try any less lethal method first. See video I just posted of a white dude a year ago who stole a cop's weapon, beat them with it and stole their car. No shots fired.

Brooks escalated it once he knew he was being arrested.In alot of states in the US it is illegal to be drunk in public,never mind being behind the wheel.The second he chose to fight,take the Taser and fired it at an officer. That's all him continuing to escalate the situation.Instead of owning up he messed up and accept his punishment which would have been jail.

GreeBo

yourdeadwright wrote: »

No he decided he was the bad guy when he drunk drove, attacked the police, stole there weapon , discharged it at them ,

None of which carries a sentence of death.

Stateofyou

BattleCorp wrote: »

Not the most reliable of sources but have a look at Brooks in the video clips saying the moment that he steps out of line he goes back to jail.

https://www.yc.news/2020/06/15/rayshard-brooks-own-family-accused-him-of-cruelty-to-children-family-battery-beatings/

So why are you relying on it so much if you admit it's not the most reliable of sources? All he said was if I step out of line, back to jail I go. And he may go back to jail eventually, once he's arraigned and a judgement is made, but that does not mean he had to be arrested. He could have been issued a ticket and a court date. That does not support your earlier claim that they had to arrest him.

It also does not support your claim that he was a child torturer. I have spent about 10 minutes on google this morning trying to find anything on that, and I couldn't. The link I asked for, and that you quoted me on by posting an unrelated link talking about his "back to jail" comment does not address that whatsoever as you well know.

GreeBo

BattleCorp wrote: »

Pile of sh1te of an answer to be honest.

Floyd was illegally killed, I'm not arguing that fact. He didn't need to die. But are you saying that every single black man is within his right to act the way Brooks did because of what happened to Floyd? Bullsh1t.

You are half correct. Brooks did indeed want to 'get away'. He wanted to get away because he was about to be arrested for being drunk in charge of a vehicle. That's why he assaulted the cops, stole a taser, assaulted a cop with the taser and ran. What Brooks did wasn't defending himself, it was pure thuggery while trying to get away from the cops.

No, every person is entitled to not be shot by the police, unless they are demonstrably endangering the lives of the public.

GreeBo

BattleCorp wrote: »

He was running away with a police taser after showing that he is not afraid to use it (he fired it at police officers). Who is to say that he wouldn't use it on someone else later in the night?

Thankfully "who is to say" isn't a reasonable defence of anything in any court , anywhere.
I presume you know about court cases, innocent until proven guilty, judges, sentencing and all that stuff?

Stateofyou

I Am Nobody wrote: »

Brooks escalated it once he knew he was being arrested.In alot of states in the US it is illegal to be drunk in public,never mind being behind the wheel.The second he chose to fight,take the Taser and fired it at an officer. That's all him continuing to escalate the situation.Instead of owning up he messed up and accept his punishment which would have been jail.

Of course he wasn't rational. He. Was. Drunk. And a black man who's fear level would have been at 200% in that moment. It's the officer's job to de-escalate. It's not illegal to be drunk in public, it's illegal to DRINK in public. Otherwise how the f@ck would anyone get from pub/party/concert back to their home. :rolleyes:

GreeBo

BattleCorp wrote: »

He was jailed for torturing his kids FFS.

The above is a pile of bullsh1t. Nice lovable people don't torture their kids.

So if you are not "nice and lovable" its ok to be shot by police?

Is there a written list of these rules, would be very handy to have.

weldoninhio

timsey tiger wrote: »

So based on this definition, the officer should not have used deadly force, based on the police force's own description of a taser.

A taser can result in serious bodily injury. Cop was 100% correct to put him down.

Danzy

GreeBo wrote: »

Lads, read what you have just written.
In your minds he is now a meth head monster who kills children, its a wonder the police didnt just shoot him on sight.

Also, this man is the "public" that the police are supposed to protect and serve, its not just happy white people.

Yes, stay out of range, if he "escapes" then so what? The public is no worse off than before the cops arrived on the scene and instead a father is still alive.
and also the Police had all his details, his name, address nad were in possession of his car... where was he gonna go exactly?

He is a convicted child abuser. He was very drunk and had all the appearances of a meth head.

He is part of the public but he had no concern for others. His entire action that night was contempt for his community and their lives.

The only people who are safe now this thing is dead are primarily his family who are free from his extreme violence and his black neighbours.


Given Atlanta is a black city it doesn't really affect whites.

You can't let extremely violent and intoxicated people go where they want in that circumstance.

Duty to the wider public.

Stateofyou

weldoninhio wrote: »

A taser can result in serious bodily injury. Cop was 100% correct to put him down.

Put him down? What kind of language is that? You say that when you're putting down a dog. FFS.
Well a tasered cop would have lived to see his family another day. Rayshard was running away as clearly, he was shot multiple times in the BACK. Now his FOUR kids have no father and his wife has no husband. His co-workers have no beloved co-worker. It was 100% wrong to take his life.

joseywhales

BattleCorp wrote: »

Brooks resisted arrest, assaulted the police, stole a taser, ran a short distance, stopped, turned, pointed a taser at cops and fired and then ran again. His taser had the capability to fire more shots. What were the cops to do, let him run and possibly turn again and try fire at them or someone else?

Remember the cops don't have the benefit of hindsight like me or you do.

Personally I think the cops took the right action.

If Brooks hadn't been drunk in charge of a vehicle, resisted arrest, assaulted two police officers, stole a taser and assaulted the cops with it, then I suspect Brooks would be alive today.

All of his actions can be explained as a man in desperation, trying to protect his own life and safety, he did not initiate an attack, everything he did was reactionary. He was not a danger to the police as he was in retreat. He was also recently awoken and apparently over the limit, this is a man that can be run down, can be talked into compliance at the end of a gun, once he comes to realise that he cannot escape the system. He resisted arrest for which he would have faced justice. I would expect a higher standard than death for all those who resist arrest. That sounds more like a death squad than a police force to me.

Stateofyou

Danzy wrote: »

He is a convicted child abuser. He was very drunk and had all the appearances of a meth head.

He is part of the public but he had no concern for others. His entire action that night was contempt for his community and their lives.

The only people who are safe now this thing is dead are primarily his family who are free from his extreme violence and his black neighbours.


Given Atlanta is a black city it doesn't really affect whites.

You can't let extremely violent and intoxicated people go where they want in that circumstance.

Duty to the wider public.

Link. There may have been charges, but I've seen nothing on convictions. The most I can find that involved him and children was taking his own child without the mother's permission.
Calling him a meth head is pure slander.
You just called a human being a THING which says more about you than him. And his family, friends and co-workers have a lot of loving praise to say about him.

joseywhales

Danzy wrote: »

He is a convicted child abuser. He was very drunk and had all the appearances of a meth head.

He is part of the public but he had no concern for others. His entire action that night was contempt for his community and their lives.

The only people who are safe now this thing is dead are primarily his family who are free from his extreme violence and his black neighbours.


Given Atlanta is a black city it doesn't really affect whites.

You can't let extremely violent and intoxicated people go where they want in that circumstance.

Duty to the wider public.

What is this rubbish? He failed a sobriety test, this means he was very drunk, a meth head and now not a human but a thing?

You really don't like him eh?

I Am Nobody

Stateofyou wrote: »

Of course he wasn't rational. He. Was. Drunk. And a black man who's fear level would have been at 200% in that moment. It's the officer's job to de-escalate. It's not illegal to be drunk in public, it's illegal to DRINK in public. Otherwise how the f@ck would anyone get from pub/party/concert back to their home. :rolleyes:

Not true,it varies from State to State and local jurisdictions.Look it up.

weldoninhio

GreeBo wrote: »

Lads, read what you have just written.
In your minds he is now a meth head monster who kills children, its a wonder the police didnt just shoot him on sight.

Also, this man is the "public" that the police are supposed to protect and serve, its not just happy white people.

Yes, stay out of range, if he "escapes" then so what? The public is no worse off than before the cops arrived on the scene and instead a father is still alive.
and also the Police had all his details, his name, address nad were in possession of his car... where was he gonna go exactly?

If he escapes so what?? This is a criminal who had no problem torturing his own wife and child. He knew that he was going back to prison for a long, long time. You think he was gonna go home and wait for the cops to gently knock on his door to bring him in?? Desperate men do desperate things. He was willing to pump 1200 volts into a police officer.

Tony EH

Stateofyou wrote: »

Put him down? What kind of language is that?

It's the language of feeble minded internet hardshaws, who've spent too much time on their playstation.

Overheal

weldoninhio wrote: »

A taser can result in serious bodily injury. Cop was 100% correct to put him down.

Two guys punching the **** out of each other can cause serious bodily harm should cops start blowing people away they see engaged in fist fights?

Nobody ITT can verify if he did, or indeed how he “tortured his own kids?” The lack of confirmation of this has been notable

weldoninhio

Stateofyou wrote: »

Where's the link about the kid torture I asked for?

No, the Cops escalated. He was drunk, they were sober. It's their job, or it should be, to de-escalate. As they are demonstrably able to do more often with white people. He didn't need to be arrested for one. He was calm and should have been able to go home.
Two, do you have any idea the level of fear black people feel right now over interactions with the police and being arrested? It would take a lot of empathy to understand at that level because if you're white like me, we have and will never have to face that kind of fear. And once again, he was drunk and wasn't rational. I've been pissed drunk. Bet you have? How many of us have been absolutely P*ssed and done or said something we shouldn't have. It shouldn't equal a death sentence.
I know your statement to be false about violating conditions of release and getting arrested, because I lived in the US for many years and I personally know people are speaking up about this that had similar pasts (obv reformed) and that didn't happen to them.
Yeah, it matters that he missed. Police can track him down, they know where he lives. Where he works. They could run after him. They could taser him first (another cop there, remember?) but they didn't even try any less lethal method first. See video I just posted of a white dude a year ago who stole a cop's weapon, beat them with it and stole their car. No shots fired.

So if you break the law, but you’re calm, you should be allowed free?? What fcuking planet do you live on??



Edit: and they had tried to tase him, it didn’t work. The second cop had shot him 3 times with his taser to no effect. If you are going to talk shyte, at least know the basics??

Overheal

weldoninhio wrote: »

So if you break the law, but you’re calm, you should be allowed free?? What fcuking planet do you live on??

I stayed calm during my last speeding violation and was let free.

I live on Earth. Where are you?

joseywhales

Overheal wrote: »

I stayed calm during my last speeding violation and was let free.

I live on Earth. Where are you?

Criminal! You strike me as a meth head too.

BattleCorp

Stateofyou wrote: »

White people in the US are the racial majority. They make up about 70% of the population, Black people about 12%. But when you look at the rate of police violence, Black people are disproportionately killed by police in the US. A Black person in America is roughly three times more likely than a white person to be killed by police.
There is overwhelming evidence of racial bias in the criminal justice system, in everything from policing to sentencing.

I'm not disagreeing with you here. There probably is indeed bias.

That said, if you are a black man and more likely to get shot and killed by the police, wouldn't it make more sense to do what they lawfully tell you to do? In other words, don't go resisting arrest and assaulting them.

They were lawfully entitled to arrest Brooks for DUI. He resisted. His actions escalated the situation. If he complied, he would be alive today.

joseywhales

BattleCorp wrote: »

I'm not disagreeing with you here. There probably is indeed bias.

That said, if you are a black man and more likely to get shot and killed by the police, wouldn't it make more sense to do what they lawfully tell you to do? In other words, don't go resisting arrest and assaulting them.

They were lawfully entitled to arrest Brooks for DUI. He resisted. His actions escalated the situation. If he complied, he would be alive today.

Nobody is calling Brooks a genius or even a smart man but we hold police to the highest standard, they have the highest protection on the law and they are fully trained and armed.

An underlying problem is the lack of social mobility in the us from dirt poor to middle class. There is poor public services, almost no opportunity, this plays into keeping families generationally poor.

BattleCorp

Stateofyou wrote: »

So why are you relying on it so much if you admit it's not the most reliable of sources? All he said was if I step out of line, back to jail I go. And he may go back to jail eventually, once he's arraigned and a judgement is made, but that does not mean he had to be arrested. He could have been issued a ticket and a court date. That does not support your earlier claim that they had to arrest him.

It also does not support your claim that he was a child torturer. I have spent about 10 minutes on google this morning trying to find anything on that, and I couldn't. The link I asked for, and that you quoted me on by posting an unrelated link talking about his "back to jail" comment does not address that whatsoever as you well know.

Links to his rap sheet is here. You can see he was convicted of cruelty to children which involved torturing his children. To what extent he tortured them, I'm not sure.

https://miningawareness.wordpress.com/2020/06/15/atlanta-police-shooting-rayshard-brooks-out-on-parole-past-crimes-include-cruelty-to-children-family-violence-battery-theft-credit-card-fraud-more/

walshb

Can we quit this **** about his color

White, black, brown, yellow, blue or whatever...

The guy reacted like a lunatic. And out of control lunatic...

Maybe the cop was too eager to discharge his weapon.

Main issue is: was he within his rights to?

And I am forgetting his suspension/firing here. The whole world is so damn quick now to slate the cops at the slightest chance...

We can wait to hear from the official investigation..

weldoninhio

Stateofyou wrote: »

Put him down? What kind of language is that? You say that when you're putting down a dog. FFS.
Well a tasered cop would have lived to see his family another day. Rayshard was running away as clearly, he was shot multiple times in the BACK. Now his FOUR kids have no father and his wife has no husband. His co-workers have no beloved co-worker. It was 100% wrong to take his life.

As per the Georgia police handbook, if a criminal has a weapon that can cause serious injury, shooting is appropriate. His FOUR kids and wife no longer have to worry about being tortured or beaten. Every cloud.

weldoninhio

Overheal wrote: »

I stayed calm during my last speeding violation and was let free.

I live on Earth. Where are you?

Speeding is not the same as drunk driving.

BattleCorp

GreeBo wrote: »

So if you are not "nice and lovable" its ok to be shot by police?

Is there a written list of these rules, would be very handy to have.

Where did I say that? I'd appreciate if you could quote where I said that please.

A poster (I'm too lazy to check who, maybe it was you) listed out a pile of comments from Brook's family members saying he was loveable, a good father, basically the Sun shone out of his ass. I just pointed out that his criminal record points to facts other than that.

My thinking is that he was shot, not because of his past, but because he assaulted two police officers and took one of their tasers and fired it at the cop and presented a real danger to them.

I know the bloke wasn't a nice guy, and I'm not advocating for cops to go around shooting those who they think are 'not nice guys'. I am advocating for cops to be allowed to defend themselves when they are assaulted while trying to lawfully carry out their job.

Overheal

BattleCorp wrote: »

Links to his rap sheet is here. You can see he was convicted of cruelty to children which involved torturing his children. To what extent he tortured them, I'm not sure.

https://miningawareness.wordpress.com/2020/06/15/atlanta-police-shooting-rayshard-brooks-out-on-parole-past-crimes-include-cruelty-to-children-family-violence-battery-theft-credit-card-fraud-more/

Cruelty != torture

Fcuk me. People have been saying torture this entire time like he hung them upside down in a basement and let rats eat their fingernails or something. Torture implies violence.

The cruelty charge is far more broad than that (and way less sensational). I’d actually want to see a court document detailing the cruelty.