Madeleine McCann

nc6000

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121773556#Comment_121773556

The dog has no interest in their car, watch the video. it's obvious it's their car because you can see the posters etc but the dog has to be repeatedly called back with the handler tapping the car.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTF4JTLeOWA

Musicrules

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121773610#Comment_121773610

Did you watch the video? The dog clearly starts going mad when it got near the McCann's car. It was on to the scent and was trying to narrow it down. Head up in the air searching for the source. The dog can't read the posters on the car. It alerted at the car door.

LambshankRedemption

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121773690#Comment_121773690

You are either referring to a different video than has been posted or just seeing what you want to see. The handler has to call the dog back to the McCanns car, not once but twice. Initially the dog, had a sniff of the car and ran onto the next car. The handler calls it back, it has a sniff around and then runs around in circles next to the car and then continues to the other car parked, when the handler calls it back again.

briany

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121773528#Comment_121773528

It wasn't extremely dodgy. If you're being fingered for a crime that you say you didn't commit, you are going to seek legal counsel. Even more so if you're in a foreign country and already going through an unbelievably stressful period. I would say that's quite normal. And given the nature of tabloid commentary on them, being defensive after the fact isn't much of a surprise either. There are still people out there who think they were involved. I'd be defensive as well, if I were them.

The fact is that the dog alerts didn't lead anywhere. There was no conclusive forensic evidence produced from the tests, so what else is there to say about it?

LambshankRedemption

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121773717#Comment_121773717

If the McCanns were behind her disappearance, why did they create such a media whirlwind around finding her. Its an unfortunate fact that kids go missing all the time and we never hear about them. Why did they keep feeding the media, meeting the pope, contacting the British Prime Minister for help, calling in Scotland Yard when the Portuguese Police were being unhelpful? Would you do all that if you knew what happened and you were responsible?

I can't believe Im having to comment on this particular theory. Her parents being responsible is about as plausible as she being abducted by aliens.

LambshankRedemption

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121773610#Comment_121773610

Is it not questionable that the handler has to indicate anything?

Im picturing the scene in Babe, when the farmer just says to Babe "Go pig", and Babe runs off and does his thing, herds all the sheep perfectly with out the farmer saying anything. If the handler has to point out to the dog which car it is, and where on the car to sniff, can you really say it is incontrovertible evidence of anything?

As a kid we went to Portugal many times for summer holidays, about 20-30km from PDL. Great memories, but I also remember manys a skinned knee or banged toe causing a minor bleed. I'm sure I would have left behind the odd drop of blood in our apartment, or hire car if we ever took one. Would the dog have picked up the scent of my blood, or a forensics investigator found a drop in the apartment and saved it as evidence?

nc6000

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121773690#Comment_121773690

I'm obviously not suggesting the dog spotted the posters but it does mean the handler knows which car was theirs and therefore which car his dog should be interested in.

nc6000

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121773773#Comment_121773773

That's a good analogy, how much handling should the dog require if it's supposedly so good at finding evidence?

On balance Bruekner, sex, overtures at Sagres which any familiar visitor to Algarve will know very well.

Anybody with a modicum of intelligence would know of where to dispose of a body:

Never to be seen again. Who is trying to fool whom?

Christ, I despair of people’s thinking’ or lack thereof!!!!!!.

briany

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121773760#Comment_121773760

It's not unheard of for parents to kill one of their children in some way, but the timeline to support this theory in the case of the McCanns is quite something to behold.

So, they pick her up from her daycare at 6 PM. In the next two and a half hours before presenting at the Tapas, the parents, both doctors, administer to her a fatal dose of (checks notes) Calpol. Then they presumably discover her dead - grief, grief, anguish, anguish, how can we go on etc. then to put their other kids to bed, concoct a plan to stage her disappearance, and get ready for a meal. Then they have the dinner and Kate puts on her performance. It is at this point Gerry decides, AFTER THE ALARM IS RAISED FFS, to run up the road with the corpse of his daughter to some unknown hiding place. OR they have her stuck in a fridge, presumably hoping they get lucky that investigating officers will not stumble upon it in the next few hours of frantic investigation.

Audacious.

Also, in this theory the Mccanns are presumably thanking their lucky stars that they had a ground floor apartment with access from the street to really make it plausible that an unknown party could sneak in.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121773760#Comment_121773760

She didn’t **** disappear in the ether, someone **** killed her.

sure only a little girl

LambshankRedemption

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121773821#Comment_121773821

Someone took her. Thats all anyone knows, aside obviously the perpetrator.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121773827#Comment_121773827

The poor mite was abused then thrown over the cliffs when the brief thrill was over, perhaps shared with “friends”. I have looked over the cliffs from the car park both before and after Madeleine, I made a close injection on second visit après Madeleine, there just a few feet from boot of parked cars to precipice.

danfrancisco83

"We have enough evidence to say our suspect killed Madeleine" - Hans Christian Wolters, June 2020

Was this fella just full of crap, trying to make himself famous? Or what's the story here?

Almost 4 years, surely he was bluffing and trying to get a confession, and that's backfired.

LambshankRedemption

Well if you know that for a fact you should contact Operation Grange: Operation.Grange@met.police.uk

MacDanger

Anyone who thinks the mccanns killed their daughter are probably the same clowns who think Bailey killed Sophie TDP. Zero actual evidence but loads of nonsense theories

Musicrules

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121773707#Comment_121773707

Did you not see the dog going crazy when it reached the McCann's car? It was clearly alerted by something but had to narrow it down. As far as I've seen in other videos of cadaver dogs, this is how they act. The scent could be in the air, they take time to pinpoint where it's coming from.

Musicrules

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121773717#Comment_121773717

It was extremely dodgy. If the McCann's knew they were innocent, then they would have been encouraging the police to follow the clues given by the dogs. Saying it wasn't them but that it could help find their daughter. That they instantly went on the defensive is very suspicious. Especially when they continued to do so long after they were suspects.

chooseusername

Breuckner on trial today for other **** ;

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/christian-brueckner-madeleine-mccann-live-32139043

Padraig Mor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121773881#Comment_121773881

You're actually spot on with one poster!

briany

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121774106#Comment_121774106

It wasn't extremely dodgy. I have seen this portrayed as the McCanns panicking and absconding to the UK and lawyering up immediately after the sniffer dogs came in and gave an alert, but that misses the bit where their Portuguese lawyer said to (I think) Kate McCann that, based on the evidence they had collected, the police thought the McCanns were involved in their daughter's disappearance, but that they would probably receive a more lenient sentence if they confessed then. This is what Kate McCann alleges in her book, and I'm not aware of any particular pushback on this claim. In lieu of any pushback, I don't find it too hard to believe since Goncalo Amaral (lead investigator at the time) later wrote a whole book on how he thought the McCanns were involved.

As it turns out, however, the Portuguese police had collected nothing conclusive with regard to a case against them. It wasn't dodgy for this to be pointed out by the legal counsel who the McCanns subsequently hired.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/mccanns-will-use-us-evidence-to-challenge-scent-of-death-claims-402587.html

Sniffer dogs smelling cadaverine isn't enough, or shouldn't be enough, to use as evidence by itself. That's the crux of the matter. There needs to be conclusive forensics to follow. Something which was not produced with respect to the tenuous case against Kate and Gerry McCann, and as such the dog alert became a dead end.

cnocbui

There was no evidence to follow. The dogs barked, but no forensic evidence was found.

A dog barking is not evidence, it doesn't matter if it is well trained to bark when it smells something. You can't put a dog in a witness box and ask it 'why did you bark'. 'Well he looked sad, he always looks much happier when I bark, so I thought i would cheer him up.'

And as I said before, it takes a minimum of two days for a dead body to even start decaying to a point chemical markers of death start to appear, so it's an absolute scientific impossibility that a cadaver dog could have detected anything relevant in the apartment. That dog should never have been let in the apartment as there was literally no point.

Incredibly suspicious when people deny false accusations.

Lindy Chamberlain.

A forensic technician said that a fine spray of brown paint like droplets found on body work in the passenger footwell was tested and shown to be foetal blood, assumed to have been caused when Azarias throat was cut and the arterial pressure caused the blood to spray out in a fine mist, as expert witnesses claimed it would.

Lindy continued to claim innocence and that a dingo had taken her child. How suspicious, claiming such damning evidence, let alone a dog barking on command, was false.

Turns out a dingo did take Azaria. The forensic technician submitted false evidence that the spray was foetal blood, it was just undercoat paint put there in the factory. It contained iron oxide which seems to have been confused with haemoglobin which contains iron.

The technician was under immense peer pressure to return a positive result because the population was whipped up into a frenzy of national hate similar to that the Daily Mail has managed to stimulate for Harry and Meghan. The police and everyone in the prosecution chain had already made up their minds as to Lindy's guilt, and it was obvious to the technician what everyone wanted them to deliver.

There's a chilling similarity with the McCann case as the scum Police leaked information to the press to help stir up a public firestorm of hate for the person they wanted to convict, just as Amaral and his band of thugs did. Every single detail of Kate's diary, seized as evidence, which could be negatively interpreted with some spin, was drip-fed to the media. One of the detectives even met with a journalist and started the swingers rumour.

The media should never have been informed or found out what the dogs did or did not do. Every single element in the investigation that could cast aspersions on the McCanns was deliberately fed to the media by Amaral and his band of confession-beating crooks. I guess it was their pay back for the frustration that this was one case where they couldn't have Kate fall down a lot of flights of stairs, or be made to kneel for hours on fine gravel until she confessed, which was their usual mode of operation to 'solve' cases.

Lindy Chamberlain was wrongly convicted on false evidence and spent 3 years in prison. How suspicious she denied the evidence..

silliussoddius

The Chamberlain case should make everyone pause before they think they can solve a case from the other side of a keyboard.

MonkieSocks

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121776453#Comment_121776453

Don't forget the Shannon Matthews case, where the dogs signaled Cadaver Alert in her home.

Shannon Matthews was alive and still is

silliussoddius

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121776490#Comment_121776490

I’m not familiar with that case. My first exposure to the Chamberlain case was the Meryl Streep film, A Cry in the dark. I had seen it when I was young and had more or less forgotten about it until I was in Australia in 2004, when the case made headlines again.

I watched the film again around this time, when the McCann case came up about a year later, the public reaction seemed very similar in both cases. Obviously the McCann case happened in the early days of the mass popularity of the world wide web so it reached more people

i think in the early days of the case people expected Madeleine to be found and there was a sense of “crowd sourcing/slacktivism” where everyone (particularly the tabloids) would get a pat on the back for a job well done. Then when it was obvious it would go beyond people’s attention spans, there needed to be a bogie man and the parents became it. As we’ve seen with the internet being in everyone’s pockets, people just need an iphone to think they’re opinion is fact

If someone was charged tomorrow with loads of evidence, I guarantee there would still be people trying to link the parents to it.

briany

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121776602#Comment_121776602

Problem was that there was no obvious perpetrator in Madeleine's case, but the press still needed a villain, so the parents got the brunt of the outcry.

I suspect that if Jamie Bulger's killers were similarly a mystery, then his mother would have been treated much more harshly with the aspect of her turning away from him to pay for shopping receiving much more focus and ire.

Yes, society always needs someone to pin the responsibility on, and will fill in that gap if news of an arrest being progressed fails to manifest. A vacuum of knowledge will always be filled by theories, no matter how improbable. Conspiracy theories abound even where there is good explanation, eg the poor man who died on a Lufthansa flight from Bangkok back to his home in Germany. He bled to death very suddenly when oesophageal varices ruptured, very common result of chronic liver disease. But lots of the Twitterati and bloggers insist he had Ebola or a new toxin if virus designed to kill society one by one.

silliussoddius

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121777051#Comment_121777051

There's also the weird expectation about how people should behave/grieve in public. There was a local case a few years ago where a teenager went missing, it ended up he had died and the body was found a few days later. During this time I heard a neighbour remark about how the mother had appeared on tv, is there a correct way to behave in these circumstances? Then on the completely different end of the spectrum you have the accusations against the parents of the children in the Sandy Hook shooting.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121777085#Comment_121777085

I’ll tell you what, I spoke on Liveline a few days after my mother died. We had been extremely close, and I was devastated and cried Abu dangly and noisily in the privacy of my home. Anyone listening to Liveline might have thought I was a glib. Also in the day of her funeral I invited a lot of family & friends to a 4 course meal with wine, my mother wanted to be remembered as a hospitable person and this was to be the last evidence of the person she was. A jolly time was had by all in spite of myself and her sister being chief mourners who were truly grieving. I smiled a lot, chatted, made sure everyone was “enjoying themselves”.

I remember somebody hearing about this second hand, and interpreted it as my gleefully celebrating my mother being dead. What a massive misinterpretation!

If I am deeply upset I like to take myself off to cry in private, or I try to pull myself together for the moment, if I can. Sometimes I might appear heartless, but I’m in self-protection mode, it’s a kind of survival mechanism. I also took some Valium, which my mother had put on standby, having asked the GP for this. That really helped me keep myself together.

The McCanns seem to be a very united couple and felt well supported by each other, so they could pull themselves together in public. They are doctors, well practised in having to deliver bad news to people and keeping a calm facade whilst doing so.

rogber

Brueckner has the typical retrusive chin of a paedo, I reckon it was him