Does anyone use a camera for your own protection?

Hairy Japanese BASTARDS!

I've just ordered the following action camera from Amazon. I couldn't justify the cost of a GoPro. It cost me €40 for the camera, SD card and postage.

Dragon Touch 4k action camera.
20 MP
Anti shake. Includes handlebar and helmet mounting clips.

It does not record sound. I hope the 20 MP is sufficient clarity to record reg plates etc. Has anyone ever successfully used footage from bike cameras to report rogue road users?

Seth Brundle

There is a thread for discussing close passes @ Near Misses Volume 2 (So close you can feel it)
I've reported a number of drivers in both Lucan and Leixlip stations for various incidents since getting my cameras around Christmas.
The only one I'v had "closure" to is this one where a pair of nutjobs figured it would be a bit of craic to open the car door at me (as they initially passed and when they passed the second time after the lights): https://streamable.com/nnye4a

I'd still recommend reporting any incidents that you are concerned about although it can take about half an hour whilst the garda writes up the statement (it's so old school!). Your statement will include such bollox such as how the overtake made you scared, blah blah.
You'll probably hear nothing back without chasing the garda so keep a note of what you reported, who you reported it to and when you reported it.
The law is quite clear about dangerous and inconsiderate overtaking. However, apparently footage & statements are reviewed by the super who will decide if it's worthwhile taking it further (you're the alleged victim so you've no say in the matter).

In terms of getting the footage to AGS, some will ask for it on a DVD or USB drive. I've had gardai (who generally wouldn't be technical) asking me to email a movie file which might be 1000 times the maximum size allowed by their email systems.
My succesful outcome was backed up by the linked footage above on Streamable.com. This doesn't seem to alter the quality of the video whereas the likes of YouTube compressed the video which sacrifices the quality of the picture.

Seth Brundle

Just in terms of the sound -it may be a good thing that yours doesn't record sound.
I'm too quick at losing the head and will use some profanities against the offending driver.
It could be used as an excuse against me to drop the charge.

buffalo

Seth Brundle wrote: »

The only one I'v had "closure" to is this one where a pair of nutjobs figured it would be a bit of craic to open the car door at me

What was the outcome?

Seth Brundle

The garda involved was sound and without getting into details (as I don't want to possibly prejudice any case), he reckoned he could get the driver on a more serious charge which would have much more long term implications for them.
I was happy with that.

Oh what happened with that one Seth ? I must have missed if you already mentioned it.

Seth Brundle

Deleted User wrote: »

Oh what happened with that one Seth ? I must have missed if you already mentioned it.

erm, I just said what happened...

Seth Brundle wrote: »

The garda involved was sound and without getting into details (as I don't want to possibly prejudice any case), he reckoned he could get the driver on a more serious charge which would have much more long term implications for them.
I was happy with that.

This what happens when you start to read something and then get up to chase a 2 year old around and come back.

kirving

Hairy Japanese BASTARDS! wrote: »

It does not record sound. I hope the 20 MP is sufficient clarity to record reg plates etc.

Just to note, 20 Megapixel is only helpful if you have a lens which can resolve detail with the same level of accuracy. There tends to be quite a lot of variation camera to camera at that price point, but you really can't go too far wrong for that money.

At lower light levels, you're actually better off with fewer, larger pixels as they can gather more light in the same exposure time.

The Dragon Touch, at €40 should be fine for daytime use, but don't necessarily count on it for reg plates outside of ideal conditions.

My brother uses one cycling and it gets decent video.

Finally, it's more of good thing to have on your side should something go wrong, it's not going to provide any protection.

Mc Love

Hairy Japanese BASTARDS! wrote: »

I've just ordered the following action camera from Amazon. I couldn't justify the cost of a GoPro. It cost me €40 for the camera, SD card and postage.

Dragon Touch 4k action camera.
20 MP
Anti shake. Includes handlebar and helmet mounting clips.

It does not record sound. I hope the 20 MP is sufficient clarity to record reg plates etc. Has anyone ever successfully used footage from bike cameras to report rogue road users?

Looks like a similar one to the camera I bought from CrossAction and it definitely isnt anti-shake, shocking build quality and battery life is non existent. Use a Drift Ghost X now and its much better.

CramCycle

Mc Love wrote: »

Looks like a similar one to the camera I bought from CrossAction and it definitely isnt anti-shake, shocking build quality and battery life is non existent. Use a Drift Ghost X now and its much better.

I have a Drift Sleath II which is 720p but to me looks as clear as other cameras claiming 1080p. How would you rate the Ghost? Whats the battery life like?

Hairy Japanese BASTARDS!

It came in the post today.
Happy cycling, everyone.

WashYourHands

Hairy Japanese BASTARDS! wrote: »

It came in the post today.
Happy cycling, everyone.

Nice one. I have a Go Pro but don't have anything to attach it to the bike. Did yours come with attachments?

Hairy Japanese BASTARDS!

WashYourHands wrote: »

Nice one. I have a Go Pro but don't have anything to attach it to the bike. Did yours come with attachments?

It does. A steal for €40.
Footage quality is excellent, I was expecting it to be atrocious at that price.

Can anyone comment on my positioning? Is it poor? I felt that it was a very close pass, car was a lot closer than it appears to be in the video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RcIXotNvOIU

Seth Brundle

I think your position in fine but don't be afraid to move further right. The oncoming cyclist is probably too far to the left for my liking though.
As for the pass, as passes go, its close but because you'll find them a lot closer, I'd unfortunately let it go as otherwise you'd be forever in a garda station writing up those stupid statements.

byrnem31

Does it have everything you need straight out of the box ? How long can it record for ?

Where did you mount your camera and would they be heavy on your head attached to a helmet?

Might get one, €40 is really good value. Great picture too.

triggermortis

I have a fly6 that I use on my commute and would like something to go on the front. I lost my virb and felt safer with both sides covered

I'd drop the quality to be honest, youtube is serving that up to me in 4k and switching it 1080p there's no noticeable difference other than space used on your memory card.

Does it do 1080 60fps?

byrnem31

Is there a decent cheap one that records back and front off a helmet ?
I'm back cycling full time now after taking a break for a while and is shocking how bad cage drivers are.
Nearly got creamed at the roundabout at buglers rathfarnham last week.

smacl

byrnem31 wrote: »

Is there a decent cheap one that records back and front off a helmet ?
I'm back cycling full time now after taking a break for a while and is shocking how bad cage drivers are.
Nearly got creamed at the roundabout at buglers rathfarnham last week.

I use that roundabout most mornings. Unless you're getting off at the first exit I reckon it is really important to take the lane and ignore the cycle lane which in my opinion makes that roundabout more dangerous to cyclists.

wassie

Check you SD card regularly. I learnt the hard way after an incident only to find out it wasnt recorded as the SD card had died. It was a brand name card, but wasn't up to the task to handle high levels of writing.

MojoMaker

Let's not be confusing Rathfarnham with Ballyboden....please :pac:

Hairy Japanese BASTARDS!

byrnem31 wrote: »

Does it have everything you need straight out of the box ? How long can it record for ?

Where did you mount your camera and would they be heavy on your head attached to a helmet?

Might get one, €40 is really good value. Great picture too.

It does. All accessories included.
I mounted mine beside my light.

Hairy Japanese BASTARDS!

It slots into this water proof box making it safe against the rain as well. I should add that I had a discount promotion so you might pay a bit more.

Hairy Japanese BASTARDS!

Hairy Japanese BASTARDS! wrote: »

It slots into this water proof box making it safe against the rain as well. I should add that I had a discount promotion so you might pay a bit more.

Here it is

TheBoyConor

Seth Brundle wrote: »

.....
As for the pass, as passes go, its close but because you'll find them a lot closer, I'd unfortunately let it go as otherwise you'd be forever in a garda station writing up those stupid statements.

My guess as to why the gardai require a written statement made in person at a station is that it acts as a filter for what is a genuine legitimate grievance as opposed to a hyped up ranting complaint the likes of what they would receive if there were some on-line or app based means of making complaints.

If someone has to take a few hours out of their day to go to a Garda station and sit down to give a statement, it tends to focus the mind as to whether it is a legitimate problem that needs dealing with or it being just a need for them to vent frustration and anger.

Mc Love

CramCycle wrote: »

I have a Drift Sleath II which is 720p but to me looks as clear as other cameras claiming 1080p. How would you rate the Ghost? Whats the battery life like?

Battery life is very good to be honest. Do a 50-ish min cycle every day and only have to charge it maybe once a week.

Whats the best (or the least best to save space on the card) quality to film in if you're cycling?

Seth Brundle

TheBoyConor wrote: »

My guess as to why the gardai require a written statement made in person at a station is that it acts as a filter for what is a genuine legitimate grievance as opposed to a hyped up ranting complaint the likes of what they would receive if there were some on-line or app based means of making complaints.

If someone has to take a few hours out of their day to go to a Garda station and sit down to give a statement, it tends to focus the mind as to whether it is a legitimate problem that needs dealing with or it being just a need for them to vent frustration and anger.

That crystal clear video footage isn't sufficient for a conviction is the main reason. Video footage is a support to a case but the case can't be based on it. Our law is such that the case is based on a witness statement (and the video then supports the statement).
However, the statement and video are then filtered for further action on the super (IIRC) who will decide if it's worth pursuing (even if the video shows a clear breach of the law).

mrcheez

Hairy Japanese BASTARDS! wrote: »

Has anyone ever successfully used footage from bike cameras to report rogue road users?

Yes, very handy for rogue Dublin Bus drivers as well. I've had a few altercations and Dublin Bus took them all seriously.

I ended up with a few nice 64GB flash drives as well for free as I had requested they send me footage of the incident from the Dublin Bus cameras. :cool:

TheBoyConor

And rightly so. If Gardai had to persue cases based on go pro footage sent in by every outraged cyclist then they and the courts would be swamped and get nothing else done.

It is right that complaints actioned are just those that are geniunely necessary and legitimate.

Like people ring in ranting and complaining about this that and the other and are then asked "well would you be prepared to come into the station and give a statement and then spend a day in court to give evidence ?" ....That usually focuses the mind and calms most of them down and it ends there because they realise that what they are complaining about isn't worth half the effort of what is required for the courts to deal with it.

CrankyHaus

mrcheez wrote: »

Yes, very handy for rogue Dublin Bus drivers as well. I've had a few altercations and Dublin Bus took them all seriously.

I ended up with a few nice 64GB flash drives as well for free as I had requested they send me footage of the incident from the Dublin Bus cameras. :cool:

What's the best way to contact Dublin Bus about this?


I sent a fairly detailed complaint to their compaints email address after a bus swerved its rear end into me and heard zero back.


Cheers for the camera recommendation OP! I've been looking for something similar for a while.

mrcheez

CrankyHaus wrote: »

What's the best way to contact Dublin Bus about this?

I emailed: info@dublinbus.ie
and cc-ed: customercomment@dublinbus.ie

and they reply with a Case Reference.

My email also included still footage captures.

buffalo

TheBoyConor wrote: »

And rightly so. If Gardai had to persue cases based on go pro footage sent in by every outraged cyclist then they and the courts would be swamped and get nothing else done.

Well that's just misleading. Gardai don't have to pursue every case, just those with clear footage where they think an offence is committed. And there are plenty of offences which can just be a FCPN, no need to go through the courts.

CrankyHaus

buffalo wrote: »

Well that's just misleading. Gardai don't have to pursue every case, just those with clear footage where they think an offence is committed. And there are plenty of offences which can just be a FCPN, no need to go through the courts.

Did anything ever come of that case up by the 5 Lamps on Amiens Street a year or so ago where the Taxi Driver deliberately attempted to strike the cyclist and it was caught on camera?

Seth Brundle

TheBoyConor wrote: »

And rightly so. If Gardai had to persue cases based on go pro footage sent in by every outraged cyclist then they and the courts would be swamped and get nothing else done.

It is right that complaints actioned are just those that are geniunely necessary and legitimate.

Like people ring in ranting and complaining about this that and the other and are then asked "well would you be prepared to come into the station and give a statement and then spend a day in court to give evidence ?" ....That usually focuses the mind and calms most of them down and it ends there because they realise that what they are complaining about isn't worth half the effort of what is required for the courts to deal with it.

The law is clear about dangerous overtaking of cyclists yet the gardai can decide not to bother pursuing it.
I've been overtaken dangerously by cars in 24/7 buslanes yet formally reporting to gardai went nowhere.

TheBoyConor

That is the reality.

If gardai were to investigate every report of every outraged cyclist who alleged that they got passed at less than 1.5m, sure they'd get nothing else done.

The law is the law of course, and it is very clear, as it should be, but in reality the law and what is enforceable and what is worth enforcing in practice is different.

You do realise that Gardai have bigger fish to fry than SB who had a car pass him at 1.42m. Armed drugs gangs, rural crime and travelling theft gangs, public order, emergency response.

You might not like to hear it, but in the scheme of things it is a fairly mickey mouse law that is never going to be high on the priorities and will mostly only be brought up and prosecuted under in the event that there was an accident which was clearly associated to an unsafe pass. Perhaps a few isolated prosecutions here or there just to nail some cute hoor that they couldn't nail for what they actually wanted them for, or to make a point about it.

There is idealism of how we would like things to be and realism of how things actually are in the everyday world. I suggest you bring your mindset more into tune with the latter.

deconduo

Thinking about picking up a camera after a experiencing a few recent close passes. Is it more important to have a front or rear facing camera to start off with?

CramCycle

Mc Love wrote: »

Whats the best (or the least best to save space on the card) quality to film in if you're cycling?

I would aim for high frame rate, 720p seems to capture details just fine. The lower the frame rate and definition, the longer the battery should last.

I would say minimum 60fps, and minimum 720p, preferably 1080p

Hairy Japanese BASTARDS!

CramCycle wrote: »

I would aim for high frame rate, 720p seems to capture details just fine. The lower the frame rate and definition, the longer the battery should last.

I would say minimum 60fps, and minimum 720p, preferably 1080p

I never knew the fps affected battery life. Everyday is a school day. I'll reduce mine today.

smacl

TheBoyConor wrote: »

If gardai were to investigate every report of every outraged cyclist who alleged that they got passed at less than 1.5m, sure they'd get nothing else done.

If that was so if they simply applied fixed penalties on every case with a written statement supported by strong video evidence they could fill there coffers for minimal resources. Doesn't take much of an investigation and those contesting a fixed penalty notice who are in the wrong are liable to land far bigger fines plus court costs and a possible ban. Once road users know that dangerous driving is something they can't easily get away with, they'll be far more reluctant to do it.

CramCycle

Hairy Japanese BASTARDS! wrote: »

I never knew the fps affected battery life. Everyday is a school day. I'll reduce mine today.

Depends on the camera and it isn't typically major AFAIK. With some Go Pros it reduces it by about 5 to 10%, image quality also seems to have an affect as well which is way more varied. There are other factors as well, so the camera might be doing loads of other things so this is barely noticeable, or it might be.

If your only using it for commuting, chances are the battery will last for most commutes, I wouldn't get overly concerned myself.

Your query was space on the card, so the lower the image quality, the less space it will take, same with frame rates. Lower frame rates are smaller memory needs.

buffalo

TheBoyConor wrote: »

That is the reality.

If gardai were to investigate every report of every outraged cyclist who alleged that they got passed at less than 1.5m, sure they'd get nothing else done.

Are you suggesting that because the problem is so widespread, it would be too much to tackle every single offence, so we should ignore all of it?

Like people ring in ranting and complaining about this that and the other and are then asked "well would you be prepared to come into the station and give a statement and then spend a day in court to give evidence ?" ....That usually focuses the mind and calms most of them down and it ends there because they realise that what they are complaining about isn't worth half the effort of what is required for the courts to deal with it.

Or are you suggesting the Gardai should prioritise based on how insistent a complainant is, rather than the seriousness of the offence?

MojoMaker

As a poster with known anti-cycling sentiments I think perhaps TheBoyConor would suggest yes to both.

Reality_Check1

Ive heard incidence over the last couple of weeks where motorists have used dash cam footage to report cyclists breaking lights (I've a mate who's a Guard).

I don't have a camera and prob won't get one to be honest mainly because I don't think anything would be done if I were to report it

CramCycle

Reality_Check1 wrote: »

Ive heard incidence over the last couple of weeks where motorists have used dash cam footage to report cyclists breaking lights (I've a mate who's a Guard).

I don't have a camera and prob won't get one to be honest mainly because I don't think anything would be done if I were to report it

Great if they are. I mean I doubt anything actually happens as there are so few cyclists breaking lights and in reality, even fewer posing a danger (although there are some). I've submitted footage of cars breaking lights on my commute, clear footage, light and vehicle in shot, on several occasions over 12 vehicles per light rotation. The Gardai look at you like you have two heads. If your mate wants to rack up a ton of easy convictions though, I'd be happy to start sending him footage and provide statements on a daily basis.

Mc Love

CramCycle wrote: »

I would aim for high frame rate, 720p seems to capture details just fine. The lower the frame rate and definition, the longer the battery should last.

I would say minimum 60fps, and minimum 720p, preferably 1080p

Going to chance 720 @60 and see how I get on. On the Ghost x, the 1080p has HDR listed as the fps but you could have 30fps, next one down is 960p, but will try the 720p

AndrewJRenko

TheBoyConor wrote: »

And rightly so. If Gardai had to persue cases based on go pro footage sent in by every outraged cyclist then they and the courts would be swamped and get nothing else done.

It is right that complaints actioned are just those that are geniunely necessary and legitimate.

Like people ring in ranting and complaining about this that and the other and are then asked "well would you be prepared to come into the station and give a statement and then spend a day in court to give evidence ?" ....That usually focuses the mind and calms most of them down and it ends there because they realise that what they are complaining about isn't worth half the effort of what is required for the courts to deal with it.

It seems to work OK in the UK without requiring written statements.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/carltonreid/2020/03/08/dangerous-driving-convictions-soar-via-video-uploads-to-police/


It's almost as if people can make sensible decisions on their own about submissions.

AndrewJRenko

Reality_Check1 wrote: »

Ive heard incidence over the last couple of weeks where motorists have used dash cam footage to report cyclists breaking lights (I've a mate who's a Guard).

Reality_Check1

Reality_Check1 wrote: »

Ive heard incidence over the last couple of weeks where motorists have used dash cam footage to report cyclists breaking lights (I've a mate who's a Guard).

I don't have a camera and prob won't get one to be honest mainly because I don't think anything would be done if I were to report it

Almost as if fate would have it - car pulled into the cycle lane on front of me today and I had to bail out! couldn't get one of my clips out in time so went down harder than I would have liked

They drove off and I didn't get the Reg but my point still stands even if I did report it I doubt anything gets done sadly

Seth Brundle

I've often wondered if it was worthwhile making a statement and then getting their insurance details via the gardai.
Then I'd make a claim based on time and costs incurred in reporting the driver. I wouldn't be benefiting financially but it would affect their insurance which might make them think twice next time!

Mc Love

Can you do that through the Gardai?