The trashing of our parks and beaches

_Brian

Deleted User wrote: »

It’s time to get litter wardens in every beauty spot. Give them the powers to photograph people walking away from rubbish and again as they leave in their vehicles. Owner of the vehicle to be fined and points on driving license. Just some ideas to be bandied about.

I took photographs of two groups littering.
Brought it to the litter warden in the council.

I had to make calll after call and push hard for two €80 fines to be issued. It took six months and I had to sign a statement and an assurance I would go to court as a witness.

We need to make prosecution much much easier.

_Brian

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Bags of dogs hit annoy me the most. Better just to leave the crap on the ground than bag it first

I see people on our woodland walk bagging it and hanging it on tree branches, must be the dog**** fairies who come during the night and gather then.

joe40

BPKS wrote: »

Noticed on our beach that its mostly the groups of teenagers/early 20s that leave behind plastic bottles,cans,glass bottles on the beach for somebody else to pick up.

This is the same generation who 6 months ago were protesting about climate change.

So everyone in a particular generation behave the same way. Plenty of teenagers respect the environment and don't litter, and unfortunately plenty do. Bit like the adults.

namloc1980

BPKS wrote: »

Noticed on our beach that its mostly the groups of teenagers/early 20s that leave behind plastic bottles,cans,glass bottles on the beach for somebody else to pick up.

This is the same generation who 6 months ago were protesting about climate change.

They don't connect their own personal actions to that of the gubbermint and "big business". It's always someone else's fault.

fly_agaric

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Some people just don't even recognise that this is a problem, they are just blind to it.

Not so sure.

People (generally...) manage to keep where they live, their gardens etc reasonably tidy. They know they'd have to look at and smell all that disgusting shíte day after day if they left it strewn all over their own garden after a party or barbeque until they personally go and throw it out.

In a park (esp. not one local to them) they can just go away after + leave it all & forget about it. It's great - don't even have to pay to dispose of it! It's just laziness combined with the usual Irish contempt for following any petty/minor rule if there is no enforcement there and a personal upside to breaking it.

LuasSimon

We now live in the new ireland of The me me me philosophy, no regard for their neighbours or the community . Soft on all crime , judges , politicians etc etc
Do what you want , nothing will happen you

accensi0n

LillySV wrote: »

You will find that the same millennials who preach online about global warming and how the cars are polluting the world are the same ones doing this...

I've seen this posted a few times in just this thread and I don't fully buy it. Of course there are hypocrites at all levels but not all teenagers are the same. It's possible that the teenagers who are concerned about the planet and are good kids in general, are not the same group of kids that are wrecking the place.

bloodless_coup

Ashleigh1986

The beaches on the continent have extra large bins .
One bin is for glass ..one for paper .. One for other rubbish .
WHAT HAVE WE GOT IN IRELAND ???
Maybe a couple of small bins as a token gesture .
On a bank holiday weekend these bins may not be emptied until the Tuesday of following week .
I personally bring my own rubbish home but there's a large amount of Irish that have no pride in their own appearance nevermind public property .

Thelonious Monk

BPKS wrote: »

Noticed on our beach that its mostly the groups of teenagers/early 20s that leave behind plastic bottles,cans,glass bottles on the beach for somebody else to pick up.

This is the same generation who 6 months ago were protesting about climate change.

Same generation but not the same people - teenagers have come to beach cleanups I've been at here in Dublin.

PhilOssophy

Back from a walk in Blackrock Park (which is certainly not a haven for dole scroungers.....).
The place was such a mess. Yes people (in general, bar a few bags of cans, etc left around) left their rubbish near bins, but the seagulls clearly had other ideas and had dragged it everywhere.
In Australia, there is a real "Park Culture", where you bring your stuff home with you. I always remember canoeing the Noosa Everglades and getting our canoes and an Alf Stewart style fellah saying "This is an area of outstanding natural beauty, if you bring ANYTHING - including fruit peelings - into this park - you bring it home with you. No exceptions".

We just can't handle a few sunny days without thrashing parks, beaches, etc. But this isn't a class thing - look at any cinema, fast-food restaurant, Irish people just think somebody else will (and should) clean up after them.

Between that and the old man walking with his dog and decided he didn't need to clean up after him when he took a sh1te, and the boom box at Seapoint which of course the whole place wanted to hear, I came home in a worse mood than I went out in.

We desperately need serious Park Rangers with enforcement powers (not some old codger who will do diddly squat) and a 50c deposit on every can/bottle/plastic bottle and serious and enforced fines for leaving rubbish behind. The only thing Irish people understand is "how much is it going to cost me". If the Greens don't even do this when they get into power, they are a failure.

Anybody who thinks this is not a cultural and societal issue, rather than a welfare one, is deluded.

Thelonious Monk

accensi0n wrote: »

I've seen this posted a few times in just this thread and I don't fully buy it. Of course there are hypocrites at all levels but not all teenagers are the same. It's possible that the teenagers who are concerned about the planet and are good kids in general, are not the same group of kids that are wrecking the place.

It's just a way for posters to knock the green movement, based on no facts

Thelonious Monk

Ashleigh1986 wrote: »

The beaches on the continent have extra large bins .
One bin is for glass ..one for paper .. One for other rubbish .
WHAT HAVE WE GOT IN IRELAND ???
Maybe a couple of small bins as a token gesture .
On a bank holiday weekend these bins may not be emptied until the Tuesday of following week .
I personally bring my own rubbish home but there's a large amount of Irish that have no pride in their own appearance nevermind public property .

Who cares really? If they got rid of all public bins, I'd still never litter again. There are no excuses. Take your sh*t home. Do we really want massive dumpsters on our beaches and beauty spots? Plus people would abuse these and dump all sorts in them. No thanks.

StackSteevens

accensi0n wrote: »

I've seen this posted a few times in just this thread and I don't fully buy it. Of course there are hypocrites at all levels but not all teenagers are the same. It's possible that the teenagers who are concerned about the planet and are good kids in general, are not the same group of kids that are wrecking the place.

Widening the discussion slightly, I live in a remote, tourist friendly, part of Ireland.

Every national school in my area (and there are too many of them, IMHO, but that's for another thread!) proudly flies not one but two or more Green School Ireland flags



outside the bulding - yet the amount of litter on the roads and in the ditches is appalling. Normally it would probably be (unfairly) be blamed on the tourists, but this year so far, there are very very few of them - so its fair to conclude that the problem is a local one.

What's baffling to me about this, is that it's the same kids who go to the schools where they are taught about protecting the environment and celebrate the award of the green flag annually are complicit - either directly (drink cans and bottles, crisp and sweet wrappings thrown out of car windows,) or through their parents - cigarette packets and coffee cups, not to mention the odd black sack thrown from a car boot onto the commonage - more often than not filled with nappies) - in destroying their own environment.

I wonder whether this capacity to act in two completely different ways is a uniquely Irish characteristic or do we share it with other ahem 'ethnic groups'?

amadangomor

I know a lot of the time it is not seen but when it is people littering need to be challenged. I have gotten in hassle and have had violence threatened on me but will continue to do so.

Strangely enough I was called a scumbag by the mother of a kid who I spoke to for throwing the remnants of his McDonalds on the street in Dublin. All I said was have you no respect for where you live and can you pick that up and put it in the bin please.

major interest

During the lockdown, I have had a chance to do a lot of walking on the roads and trails near my home. I couldn’t believe the amount of rubbish strewn about the place. One road in particular which goes parallel to a river on one side and a forest but is rarely ventured on to by walkers. It doesn’t have footpaths but had been nice and quiet and walkable during the lockdown. The amount of crap in the hedgerows and the river itself really was eye opening. People clearly throwing anything they liked out of car windows on the assumption that it was a quiet road where pedestrians would be unlikely to see them and no repercussions. Very disheartening.

Ashleigh1986

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Who cares really? If they got rid of all public bins, I'd still never litter again. There are no excuses. Take your sh*t home. Do we really want massive dumpsters on our beaches and beauty spots? Plus people would abuse these and dump all sorts in them. No thanks.

You obviously haven't traveled and seen how other countries provide proper bins at beaches .
They are done in a way you can't see the bin .
They are covered in and coloured to blend in with their surroundings .
They are emptied daily so as not to overflow .
some are even painted by local school children to start them thinking about how important PROPER AMENTIES ARE PROVIDED AND CARED FOR .

Biker79

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Who cares really? If they got rid of all public bins, I'd still never litter again. There are no excuses. Take your sh*t home. Do we really want massive dumpsters on our beaches and beauty spots? Plus people would abuse these and dump all sorts in them. No thanks.

One very common problem in the city centre is overflowing bins by well-meaning but slightly stupid people who stuff an already full bin with more rubbish.

Then as soon as the wind picks up, it whips up all the material at the top of the bin and spreads it all over the street.

The worst is a bank holiday with good weather. More takeaway rubbish and nobody on the Sunday or Monday to clean it up.

By Tuesday there's rubbish strewn all over the place.

circadian

The OH had the kids down at dollymount first thing last week for a walk around the beach. They wandered down to the water and she said the rubbish was unreal, syringes and all being washed up. I spotted remnants of a full barbecue in the dunes there yesterday. Meat packing, beer cans, kids drinks, crisp packets, a few disposable barbecues.

It most certainly is a cultural thing. I lived in Vancouver for years and that sort of behaviour wouldn't cross the minds of 99% of people living there. Literally everyone from the homeless heroin addicts to the rich entitled kids, not once did I see anyone willingly litter and throw something at their arse.

Ger Roe

Ashleigh1986 wrote: »

You obviously haven't traveled and seen how other countries provide proper bins at beaches .
They are done in a way you can't see the bin .
They are covered in and coloured to blend in with their surroundings .
They are emptied daily so as not to overflow .
some are even painted by local school children to start them thinking about how important PROPER AMENTIES ARE PROVIDED AND CARED FOR .

It's a national pride and culture thing... not the type or amount of bins and how or where they are located. You have to encourage the pride and address the culture first.

I still think that the best approach is 'you bring it with you and you take it home'. It's no one's responsibility, except yours and it's a simple approach to understand.

There are lots of things that work in other countries, that we can't or won't work to here.

whisky_galore

Ashleigh1986 wrote: »

The beaches on the continent have extra large bins .
One bin is for glass ..one for paper .. One for other rubbish .
WHAT HAVE WE GOT IN IRELAND ???
Maybe a couple of small bins as a token gesture .
On a bank holiday weekend these bins may not be emptied until the Tuesday of following week .
I personally bring my own rubbish home but there's a large amount of Irish that have no pride in their own appearance nevermind public property .

This is not an excuse, you brought it in, you take it home.
We don't seem to promote a 'leave no trace' culture, ah shur if there's no bin it's ok to just fcukin leave my sh1t here after me.

The only thing that Irish understand is when it hits them in the pocket, wardens and fines.

Edgware

PhilOssophy wrote: »

Back from a walk in Blackrock Park (which is certainly not a haven for dole scroungers.....).
The place was such a mess. Yes people (in general, bar a few bags of cans, etc left around) left their rubbish near bins, but the seagulls clearly had other ideas and had dragged it everywhere.
In Australia, there is a real "Park Culture", where you bring your stuff home with you. I always remember canoeing the Noosa Everglades and getting our canoes and an Alf Stewart style fellah saying "This is an area of outstanding natural beauty, if you bring ANYTHING - including fruit peelings - into this park - you bring it home with you. No exceptions".

We just can't handle a few sunny days without thrashing parks, beaches, etc. But this isn't a class thing - look at any cinema, fast-food restaurant, Irish people just think somebody else will (and should) clean up after them.

Between that and the old man walking with his dog and decided he didn't need to clean up after him when he took a sh1te, and the boom box at Seapoint which of course the whole place wanted to hear, I came home in a worse mood than I went out in.

We desperately need serious Park Rangers with enforcement powers (not some old codger who will do diddly squat) and a 50c deposit on every can/bottle/plastic bottle and serious and enforced fines for leaving rubbish behind. The only thing Irish people understand is "how much is it going to cost me". If the Greens don't even do this when they get into power, they are a failure.

Anybody who thinks this is not a cultural and societal issue, rather than a welfare one, is deluded.

Maybe we could get a few "Greta" wanabees to get off their arse and clean up after themselves

PhilOssophy

Edgware wrote: »

Maybe we could get a few "Greta" wanabees to get off their arse and clean up after themselves

How do you propose we do that then? It isn't in the Irish psyche. The Irish pysche is more along the lines of it is smoebody else's job, its because there's no bins, its because, because, because.....

A bit like everything else in our society, there is always something else to blame.

Biker79

Rwanda has an interesting approach:

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2018/07/18/628364015/how-rwanda-tidied-up-its-streets-and-the-rest-of-the-country-too?t=1590924054967

Thelonious Monk

Ashleigh1986 wrote: »

You obviously haven't traveled and seen how other countries provide proper bins at beaches .
They are done in a way you can't see the bin .
They are covered in and coloured to blend in with their surroundings .
They are emptied daily so as not to overflow .
some are even painted by local school children to start them thinking about how important PROPER AMENTIES ARE PROVIDED AND CARED FOR .

I couldn't care less what happens in other countries. If there are no PROPER AMENTIES take your f*cking rubbish home. There are no excuses.

Thelonious Monk

Edgware wrote: »

Maybe we could get a few "Greta" wanabees to get off their arse and clean up after themselves

Great input as usual buddy

Guy:Incognito

Ashleigh1986 wrote: »

The councils are also to blame ... Not providing enough bins at these places .
In a lot of cases these bins are to small and remain full over a weekend before been emptied on a Monday .

How did they get the stuff there with them in the first place? Do containers suddenly grow exponentially and get heavier too when you take the contents out, making it impossible to take away with you?

People are scumbags. Thats the long and short of it.

Fann Linn

_Brian wrote: »

I took photographs of two groups littering.
Brought it to the litter warden in the council.

I had to make calll after call and push hard for two €80 fines to be issued. It took six months and I had to sign a statement and an assurance I would go to court as a witness.

We need to make prosecution much much easier.

A fine is €150

kirving

Pkiernan wrote: »

Dock the "parents" dole.

In my experience, more affluent areas certainly aren't immune to littering as this post seems to imply.

PhilOssophy

Ashleigh1986 wrote: »

You obviously haven't traveled and seen how other countries provide proper bins at beaches .
They are done in a way you can't see the bin .
They are covered in and coloured to blend in with their surroundings .
They are emptied daily so as not to overflow .
some are even painted by local school children to start them thinking about how important PROPER AMENTIES ARE PROVIDED AND CARED FOR .

What other countries? I have travelled plenty. Give a few specific examples? The biggest difference is most other countries can take their sh1te home with them.

Thelonious Monk

Kevin Irving wrote: »

In my experience, more affluent areas certainly aren't immune to littering as this post seems to imply.

Did you ever see the state of the canals outside the barge etc with cans and litter everywhere on a sunny day? It's not dole heads drinking there.

Conor Bourke

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

I stand corrected. So what's thrash, like Slayer?

Yeah or Anthrax maybe?

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Why?

Coz I’m a contrary geebag as I said in my first post

Fuascailteoir wrote: »

There should be no bins provided at all at scenic/recreation locations. If you go somewhere take your rubbish home with you.

I agree on the “no bin at the amenities” approach, as a nation we seem to have a huge problem with our attitudes towards waste management. I’ve seen people stuff household rubbish into small footpath bins and others transporting their household refuse to their place of work under the cover of darkness to dispose of it in the skips. Just bring your rubbish home and pay for your bins, you scabby fcuks!

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Yes that's what i meant. Like you would thrash a hotel room. I wasn't thinking of the word in a trash can sense.

Nah, it’s still “trashing” when you make sh!t of a hotel room.

Thelonious Monk

Cornelius Crow wrote: »

Nah, it’s still “trashing” when you make sh!t of a hotel room.

Google says "thrashing" is wrecking something, I'm not sure you're right here. You give someone a good thrashing not trashing. Bleedin' scarleh for ye after kicking up a fuss.

StackSteevens

PhilOssophy wrote: »

How do you propose we do that then? It isn't in the Irish psyche. The Irish pysche is more along the lines of it is smoebody else's job, its because there's no bins, its because, because, because.....

A bit like everything else in our society, there is always something else to blame.

We're lucky that Francie Brady isn't posting on this thread, because if he was then rest assured that it would be FG's/Enda Kenny's fault! :P

whisky_galore

StackSteevens wrote: »

We're lucky that Francie Brady isn't posting on this thread, because if he was then rest assured that it would be FG's/Enda Kenny's fault! :P

It's the Brits, coming over here at night, and leaving their black bags at the roadside.

kirving

And as much as I believe people should take their rubbish home, public bins do help to solve the problem.

Say someone buys a bottle of water in the shop for their day out in the park. Between walking around, going to the playground, kicking a ball with their child or sitting on the grass, there are plenty of opportunities for even a well intentioned person to place the bottle down and forget about it.

Plenty of public bins about the place give an opportunity to get rid of the little at the earliest opportunity.

1 sheep2

PhilOssophy wrote: »

Back from a walk in Blackrock Park (which is certainly not a haven for dole scroungers.....).
The place was such a mess. Yes people (in general, bar a few bags of cans, etc left around) left their rubbish near bins, but the seagulls clearly had other ideas and had dragged it everywhere.
In Australia, there is a real "Park Culture", where you bring your stuff home with you. I always remember canoeing the Noosa Everglades and getting our canoes and an Alf Stewart style fellah saying "This is an area of outstanding natural beauty, if you bring ANYTHING - including fruit peelings - into this park - you bring it home with you. No exceptions".

We just can't handle a few sunny days without thrashing parks, beaches, etc. But this isn't a class thing - look at any cinema, fast-food restaurant, Irish people just think somebody else will (and should) clean up after them.

Between that and the old man walking with his dog and decided he didn't need to clean up after him when he took a sh1te, and the boom box at Seapoint which of course the whole place wanted to hear, I came home in a worse mood than I went out in.

We desperately need serious Park Rangers with enforcement powers (not some old codger who will do diddly squat) and a 50c deposit on every can/bottle/plastic bottle and serious and enforced fines for leaving rubbish behind. The only thing Irish people understand is "how much is it going to cost me". If the Greens don't even do this when they get into power, they are a failure.

Anybody who thinks this is not a cultural and societal issue, rather than a welfare one, is deluded.

God, that sounds enraging. I've been experiencing similar.

I know it can be quite a challenge, but I try to remark on someone's bad behaviour whenever I see it. I don't engage. I just say something like, 'Your music is obnoxious' or 'You're a disgrace for leaving a mess,' etc, and walk on. I'll normally get a shout after me or laughter. But I'm adamant that subconsciously they now have a resistance to doing it again. In the moment, they won't care in the slightest, but next time, maybe when they're in a smaller group, the knowledge that others around them view them negatively will prompt them to do the easier thing. Imagine if every time someone played music or littered (and so many other things!) they could expect to have several people express their displeasure. Only the most antisocial of our citizens would continue it, I believe.

Anyway, I urge anyone reading to join me in the fight.

BoroMan32

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

I couldn't care less what happens in other countries. If there are no PROPER AMENTIES take your f*cking rubbish home. There are no excuses.

Absolutely correct, it's a matter of decency.

Conor Bourke

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Google says "thrashing" is wrecking something, I'm not sure you're right here. You give someone a good thrashing not trashing. Bleedin' scarleh for ye after kicking up a fuss.

No, wrecking something is "trashing" (see 5th definition)

and giving someone a hiding is a "thrashing"

They are not the same thing, you've caught me on a particularly pedantic day but it ain't me who's scarleh ;-)


On a positive note, I live in a fairly salt a' dee ert area in Dublin, we had a party on the green outside my house last night with all the neighbours. Bingo, karaoke, plenty of food and drink and thankfully there wasn't as much as a sweet wrapper left on the grass after it all, despite the fun going on into the early hours, so that was nice!

Truthvader

Yep some people are pigs. It might help if dublin city council diverted resourses from clamping cars to emptying the odd bin

Fann Linn

Truthvader wrote: »

Yep some people are pigs. It might help if dublin city council diverted resourses from clamping cars to emptying the odd bin

Park properly and take your litter home with you. It can be done.

pjohnson

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Great input as usual buddy

Undoubtedly the type to leave their shít behind for lols about Greta and that funny climate stuff.

People have only been waiting to get out again as the rubbish will have been building up for weeks.

Thelonious Monk

pjohnson wrote: »

Undoubtedly the type to leave their shít behind for lols about Greta and that funny climate stuff.

how bizarre is it that posters are trying to blame this on people who have been protesting for a greener planet, based on absolutely nothing

pjohnson

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

how bizarre is it that posters are trying to blame this on people who have been protesting for a greener planet, based on absolutely nothing

Like I said before education and selfishness. They dont understand science so just dismiss it (hence the classic "its cold so it cant be global warming").

And they also dont have to decency to do anything that might help anyone other than themselves in any way whatsoever.

Quandary

Incentivise people to report littering. If you can catch someone in the act with video evidence(there are plenty of discrete ways to accomplish this) then thst should suffice. The apprehender then should get a significant percentage of any fine issued.

At the very least, its a novel suggestion.

SteM

Quandary wrote: »

Incentivise people to report littering. If you can catch someone in the act with video evidence(there are plenty of discrete ways to accomplish this) then thst should suffice. The apprehender then should get a significant percentage of any fine issued.

At the very least, its a novel suggestion.

I don't want to live in a world where people are wandering around a park recording other people hoping for a payday.

Quandary

SteM wrote: »

I don't want to live in a world where people are wandering around a park recording other people hoping for a payday.

Meh,

Camerphones are constantly out recording in beaches and parks.

If they were catching people dumping and leaving rubbish then that can only be a good thing.

SteM

SteM wrote: »

I don't want to live in a world where people are wandering around a park recording other people hoping for a payday.

Don’t be dumping your litter and you won’t have anything to worry about.

Nevin Parsnipp

Ashleigh1986 wrote: »

This happens every time the weather improves in Ireland .
You wouldn't see this in the likes of Sweden / Denmark / Norway / Germany ...
To many people living here have no respect for our stunning country .
These people will never change ....
The only thing they understand is fines .
That would mean providing proper security at these parks / beaches ...that costs money .
The councils are also to blame ... Not providing enough bins at these places .
In a lot of cases these bins are to small and remain full over a weekend before been emptied on a Monday .

Yup! Pat is a lazy slovenly scrote in general...have a look around any beach in this weather if you need confirmation.

Pat also thinks he should be able to park where he likes with no consideration for others.

That is why he constantly moans to liveline about clampers ....