How long before Irish reunification? (Part 2) Threadbans in OP

FrancieBrady

McMurphy wrote: »

Missed him and Joe Brolly, have read about Brolly, but what did Bryson say?

Bryson made the usual speech about potential Loyalist violence. Not much else really. This tweet sums up his contribution:

https://twitter.com/BriBriCanavan/status/1374123970249785346

RobMc59

Fionn1952 wrote: »

NI looking out for itself by allowing vaccination for people who work in NI but live in Ireland is certainly to be applauded, it's a sensible move that NI should take to protect itself.

Rather than playing silly buggers with language like, 'toxic' and accusing a side of stoking anything, how about we look at the numbers?

Two questions will put it all together.

1) How many UK residents have been vaccinated due to vaccine doses sent from the EU
2) How many EU residents have been vaccinated due to vaccine doses sent from the UK.

I made a comment regarding NI waiving protocol over vaccines which would be welcomed I'd have thought but that provokes annoyance amongst certain posters which is strange.One would almost think it doesn't fit into their 'British bad,Brussels good' agenda.
In addition. there are probably many people who were born British who qualify for a jab,which would be good news imo.

FrancieBrady

RobMc59 wrote: »

I made a comment regarding NI waiving protocol over vaccines which would be welcomed I'd have thought but that provokes annoyance amongst certain posters which is strange.One would almost think it doesn't fit into their 'British bad,Brussels good' agenda.
In addition. there are probably many people who were born British who qualify for a jab,which would be good news imo.

The EU have been helping out NI for decades and most recently in the heat of the pandemic. Not sure why you are making an exception out of some goodwill coming back from NI.

bonzothedog

Good debate on Claire Byrne I thought, Andrew Trimble was quite interesting and I thought John Bruton was good too. Brolly let himself down big-time though.

FrancieBrady

bonzothedog wrote: »

Good debate on Claire Byrne I thought, Andrew Trimble was quite interesting and I thought John Bruton was good too. Brolly let himself down big-time though.

John - rewrite the GFA, because it looks like there might be a UI - Bruton? Heard it all before, as much a dinosaur as Campbell tbh.

bonzothedog

Thank you Francie, I appreciate your response.

ulster

bonzothedog wrote: »

Good debate on Claire Byrne I thought, Andrew Trimble was quite interesting and I thought John Bruton was good too. Brolly let himself down big-time though.

Joe Brolly said the truth about the DUP.... that's not something that RTE can handle. RTE love Bigots like Campbell and Bryson though.

BonnieSituation

McMurphy wrote: »

Missed him and Joe Brolly, have read about Brolly, but what did Bryson say?

Nothing new or surprising, but it was shockingly eloquent and well made.

When you compare it to Campbell's aggressive shíthousery, it was rather refreshing.

BonnieSituation

bonzothedog wrote: »

Good debate on Claire Byrne I thought, Andrew Trimble was quite interesting and I thought John Bruton was good too. Brolly let himself down big-time though.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

John - rewrite the GFA, because it looks like there might be a UI - Bruton? Heard it all before, as much a dinosaur as Campbell tbh.

bonzothedog wrote: »

Thank you Francie, I appreciate your response.

What was wrong with what Francie said?

RobMc59

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The EU have been helping out NI for decades and most recently in the heat of the pandemic. Not sure why you are making an exception out of some goodwill coming back from NI.

Francie,someone posts news about the different countries helping each other and somehow our resident disgruntled republicans twist it into some nefarious British plot for world or Irish domination.

FrancieBrady

RobMc59 wrote: »

Francie,someone posts news about the different countries helping each other and somehow our resident disgruntled republicans twist it into some nefarious British plot for world or Irish domination.

Tad over sensitive today Rob?

Who did that exactly and did you not post it to try and give the impression that it was one way?
Ireland and the EU have been helping NI for years through various schemes and funding.

Fionn1952

RobMc59 wrote: »

I made a comment regarding NI waiving protocol over vaccines which would be welcomed I'd have thought but that provokes annoyance amongst certain posters which is strange.One would almost think it doesn't fit into their 'British bad,Brussels good' agenda.
In addition. there are probably many people who were born British who qualify for a jab,which would be good news imo.

Please tell me you can see the irony in you complaining about, 'British bad, Brussels good' agenda, when the only reason you popped into the thread was for a bit of, 'Brussels bad, British good'.

I've said it's a good thing that NI is protecting itself. That isn't a complaint or criticism; most of my family are in NI, including some immunocompromised family members, the more NI protects itself the better as far as I'm concerned.

I offered CONTEXT for your, 'Brussels Bad' complaining by pointing out that the EU has exported vaccine doses to the UK, none have gone the other way; it is easy for the UK to feign taking the moral high ground saying they would never stop vaccines being exported.....when they're not exporting any. I've also been highly complimentary of Britain's vaccine roll out so far, and highly critical of their early strategy in dealing with CoVid, and vice versa with the EU/Ireland. Perhaps remove the log from your own eye before complaining about others taking one sided positions, Rob.

MrMusician18

I don't really understand why varadkar is saying titles like taoiseach will need to go on a United Ireland. The Constitution is changed by simple majority and there will be no majority for that. Even if it's part of a bundle of changes, I don't see the political gain for appeasement of what will be a small minority.

It will also be quickly reversed by a nationalist government looking for an easy win.

eire4

Claire Byrne and RTE were a disgrace and should ashamed of themselves for pulling Joe Brolly from the air. What he said about the bigots and racists in the DUP was simply the truth of who they are. This was supposed to be a debate about Irish reunification. What Brolly had to say was relevant.

Junkyard Tom

MrMusician18 wrote: »

The Constitution is changed by simple majority and there will be no majority for that.

It's unfortunate for Unionists but they have facilitated the emergence of an Ireland that probably wouldn't have developed only for partition.

FrancieBrady

MrMusician18 wrote: »

I don't really understand why varadkar is saying titles like taoiseach will need to go on a United Ireland. The Constitution is changed by simple majority and there will be no majority for that. Even if it's part of a bundle of changes, I don't see the political gain for appeasement of what will be a small minority.

It will also be quickly reversed by a nationalist government looking for an easy win.

What they are also not getting is they are trying to appease a Unionism that won't be appeased, no matter what you do.

Even if the majority was 80% in favour they will still be doing the Never Never Never.

eire4

FrancieBrady wrote: »

What they are also not getting is they are trying to appease a Unionism that won't be appeased, no matter what you do.

Even if the majority was 80% in favour they will still be doing the Never Never Never.

That is a very valid point.
I think that there is good arguments for some changes in a new reunified Ireland as part of a new start for everyone that can be good not just as appeasement to unionists though, but positive for everyone. For instance our national anthem is very war like and I would be happy to see a new national anthem that was more positive and up lifting rather then one about war and fighting as an example.

FrancieBrady

eire4 wrote: »

That is a very valid point.
I think that there is good arguments for some changes in a new reunified Ireland as part of a new start for everyone that can be good not just as appeasement to unionists though, but positive for everyone. For instance our national anthem is very war like and I would be happy to see a new national anthem that was more positive and up lifting rather then one about war and fighting as an example.

Personally have no issues with flag or anthems. But if anyone thinks the rump of belligerent Unionism left would change because we agreed to change those things then they are deluded.

Like the Anglo Irish Agreement and the GFA, we need to move on without those people for the greater good of all.

eire4

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Personally have no issues with flag or anthems. But if anyone thinks the rump of belligerent Unionism left would change because we agreed to change those things then they are deluded.

Like the Anglo Irish Agreement and the GFA, we need to move on without those people for the greater good of all.

I agree with you on that.

bonzothedog

But then it is very likely we revert to violence in the north, surely we need to do our best for the unionists and the moderates, I would probably vote for a united Ireland but only just- of the tradeoff is more violence and killing you can keep it.

feargale

TOTAL COVID DEATHS: PER ONE MILLION POPUATION
EU 550,000 (4 days ago)............1244
Ireland.......................4588 (5 days ago) 936
UK (including NI) 146,486 (3 days ago) 2198
Northern Ireland 2105 (2 days ago) 1117

While I haven't researched it, my impression would be that in recent times the gap has narrowed between EU/Ireland and UK/NI.

Fionn1952

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Personally have no issues with flag or anthems. But if anyone thinks the rump of belligerent Unionism left would change because we agreed to change those things then they are deluded.

Like the Anglo Irish Agreement and the GFA, we need to move on without those people for the greater good of all.

We still have a responsibility to extend the olive branch to all, make the less belligerent feel welcome and avoid a situation where future generations continue to feel alienated. The refusal of some to accept the extended hand of friendship doesn't justify withdrawing it altogether.

Almost a million people from a Unionist/Unionist leaning background will be part of our country....how many do you want to move on without? Majority rule with no protection for a significant minority population didn't work out very well the first time we tried it on this island.

eire4

Fionn1952 wrote: »

We still have a responsibility to extend the olive branch to all, make the less belligerent feel welcome and avoid a situation where future generations continue to feel alienated. The refusal of some to accept the extended hand of friendship doesn't justify withdrawing it altogether.

Almost a million people from a Unionist/Unionist leaning background will be part of our country....how many do you want to move on without? Majority rule with no protection for a significant minority population didn't work out very well the first time we tried it on this island.

To be fair to Francie I did not read into his comments that we should not make some accommodations to reach out to and make the minority feel included in a reunified Ireland. Which of course is exactly what we should do. I read it more and I agree that there will be an intransigent group who will never accept anything and that we must accept that as reality just as we have when we have taken earlier steps along the road to where we are now such as the Good Friday Agreement.

Over time I would like to think a new and inclusive Ireland would emerge over time and those intransigents would gradually fade away.

BonnieSituation

bonzothedog wrote: »

But then it is very likely we revert to violence in the north, surely we need to do our best for the unionists and the moderates, I would probably vote for a united Ireland but only just- of the tradeoff is more violence and killing you can keep it.

Unionists and Moderates? Hmmm.

FrancieBrady

eire4 wrote: »

To be fair to Francie I did not read into his comments that we should not make some accommodations to reach out to and make the minority feel included in a reunified Ireland. Which of course is exactly what we should do. I read it more and I agree that there will be an intransigent group who will never accept anything and that we must accept that as reality just as we have when we have taken earlier steps along the road to where we are now such as the Good Friday Agreement.

Over time I would like to think a new and inclusive Ireland would emerge over time and those intransigents would gradually fade away.

Exactly what I meant.

Symbolic gestures are fine also but I would not think a change of flag or anthem will cut much mustard with many anyhow.

It will come down to how we interact and agree on matters of state and constitution and I genuinely don't see any huge issues there. Plenty of debate as happens anywhere but all happening in a democratic way.

jm08

Fionn1952 wrote: »

We still have a responsibility to extend the olive branch to all, make the less belligerent feel welcome and avoid a situation where future generations continue to feel alienated. The refusal of some to accept the extended hand of friendship doesn't justify withdrawing it altogether.

Almost a million people from a Unionist/Unionist leaning background will be part of our country....how many do you want to move on without? Majority rule with no protection for a significant minority population didn't work out very well the first time we tried it on this island.

I think people like Naomi Long would absolutely thrive in a UI. I've been involved in a 32 county sports organisation and some other cross border initiatives and I couldn't speak highly enough of the people involved who mainly came from a unionist background. Mind you, they would argue over 2 flies going up a wall and the default position was usually someone from the ROI keeping the peace between them.

FrancieBrady

The putative next leader of FF getting FF back to it's natural roots?

file:///C:/Users/harry/Downloads/Jim_Speech_Irish_reunification_.pdf

downcow

Fionn1952 wrote: »

Please tell me you can see the irony in you complaining about, 'British bad, Brussels good' agenda, when the only reason you popped into the thread was for a bit of, 'Brussels bad, British good'.

I've said it's a good thing that NI is protecting itself. That isn't a complaint or criticism; most of my family are in NI, including some immunocompromised family members, the more NI protects itself the better as far as I'm concerned.

I offered CONTEXT for your, 'Brussels Bad' complaining by pointing out that the EU has exported vaccine doses to the UK, none have gone the other way; it is easy for the UK to feign taking the moral high ground saying they would never stop vaccines being exported.....when they're not exporting any. I've also been highly complimentary of Britain's vaccine roll out so far, and highly critical of their early strategy in dealing with CoVid, and vice versa with the EU/Ireland. Perhaps remove the log from your own eye before complaining about others taking one sided positions, Rob.

I think I asked you yesterday why you think 10 million vaccines were exported out of the EU to the UK while none went the other way? It was a simple question and it would be nice simple answer from Republican any?

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

What they are also not getting is they are trying to appease a Unionism that won't be appeased, no matter what you do.

Even if the majority was 80% in favour they will still be doing the Never Never Never.

I actually agree with you on that one Francie. I think I said on here some time ago, that it will be you guys feeding the crocodiles - and we will be the crocodiles. And rather than throw the toys out of the pram like the shinners did if someone accuses us of being crocodiles getting fed, I think we will all just have a big wry smile and be pleased that we are getting to you lol

irishguy1983

bonzothedog wrote: »

Good debate on Claire Byrne I thought, Andrew Trimble was quite interesting and I thought John Bruton was good too. Brolly let himself down big-time though.

Agreed - Brolly probably spoke the truth but the likes of him, Gerry Adams, Gregory Campbell, Bryson, etc don’t help matters either way....