How long before Irish reunification? (Part 2) Threadbans in OP

Natterjack from Kerry

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Not me that said it Jack.

No, you say in your very post that you were asking.

FrancieBrady

Natterjack from Kerry wrote: »

No, you say in your very post that you were asking.

Yes...me asking how they could achieve his suggestion. Look, I even said it here.

What do you think Unionism has to do to take advantage of one of his suggestions, speak as one voice?

downcow doesn't seem to get the distinction between a political ideology 'Unionism or Nationalism' and political parties. Robinson's suggestion is for enough of those with a Unionist ideology coalescing to achieve something not for parties to merge.

Fionn1952

Natterjack from Kerry wrote: »

Which is an extraordinary question, and displays a very blinkered and selfish perspective. Wanting unionists to speak as one voice might suit you, but betrays your reductionist view that unionists are all the same, should speak as one, simplify their message for you rather than comprise a spectrum of unionist opinions and aims. Extraordinary.

Spoken with the confidence of someone totally unaware of the nuances of NI politics.

Unionism's biggest criticism (both from within and without) is its constant fractured nature. It is all well and good having a spectrum of opinions, but all too often they have strategically failed as they're a bit too Judean Peoples Front vs People's Front of Judea.

Junkyard Tom

The party of Paisley spent decades dividing Unionism every time it looked like there would be rapprochement with Nationalists and it worked to prevent change. Even now the UUP is slavishly meek when it comes to criticism of the DUP for fear of being deemed 'Lundys' which essentially makes them DUP-Lite.

It'll be interesting to see if the liberal pro-EU Unionist vote goes Alliance in the next elections.

Kermit.de.frog

https://twitter.com/rtenews/status/1360286089525796865

downcow

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

https://twitter.com/rtenews/status/1360286089525796865

As I understand it they need passports to get back into this island. Not to travel to gb

FrancieBrady

oops.

https://twitter.com/MatthewOToole2/status/1360336303557083139

Kermit.de.frog

Apparently British soil is no longer allowed in NI.

All tractors and trucks have to have the British soil washed off them before getting the boat in GB.

markodaly

I have to agree with Tommie Gorman here.

If you want to unify the country, you need to unify the people (not geography) and give Unionists a reason to buy into the project and debate.
Eventually, people will have to stop demonising them and try and see what they are about.

markodaly

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

It'll be interesting to see if the liberal pro-EU Unionist vote goes Alliance in the next elections.

The Balkanisation of the North, Extreme Green vs Extreme Orange hasn't done anyone any favours.

From recent polls, the Alliance appear to be doing very very well, attracting a more liberal, centrist, non-sectarian vote, mostly from Unionist backgrounds.
The DUP are under pressure there and from the TUV.
SF as well is under pressure, from within, the SDLP and Alliance.

Personally, I think it would be a great thing if we had a First Minister and Deputy Minister both not from the extreme sectarian divide. It would show the North is actually growing.

downcow

Here’s a wee update on petition and a date for anyone’s diary who doesn’t have much going on in their lives lol

“On Monday 22 February the Petitions Committee will hold a virtual e-petition session to discuss the movement of goods between Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

MPs will discuss the issue in light of the petition you have signed calling for the Government to remove barriers to trade within the United Kingdom. A Minister will respond for the Government.

Watch live from 4.30pm on Monday 22 February:
https://youtu.be/1Yntjci_9BQ

Petition sessions and debates are an opportunity for MPs to discuss the important issues raised by petitions”

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

will respond for the Government.

Watch live from 4.30pm on Monday 22 February:
https://youtu.be/1Yntjci_9BQ
”

Season 5 of Brexit? can't wait.

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Season 5 of Brexit? can't wait.

I thought you might enjoy it.

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

I thought you might enjoy it.

Some of the best craic of the whole Brexit fiasco was watching the British fight and squabble among themselves in the HoC. Quality entertainment.

Pretty awful way to do democracy though...having to organise a petition to have your concerns discussed by the government, would you not agree?

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Some of the best craic of the whole Brexit fiasco was watching the British fight and squabble among themselves in the HoC. Quality entertainment.

Pretty awful way to do democracy though...having to organise a petition to have your concerns discussed by the government, would you not agree?

Keep up to date Francie. My constituency has consistently had representation in Westminster since we elected Frances savage in 1801 until today.

#edit. Apologies, my constituency ceased having representation in 2017 when a shinner was elected but refused to represent his constituents in Westminster. So unfortunately the only way I can access Westminster today is via a neighbouring MP or a petition. Thanks Sinn Fein!

BonnieSituation

downcow wrote: »

Keep it to date Francie. My constituency has consistently had representation in Westminster since we elected Frances savage in 1801 until today.

#edit. Apologies, my constituency ceased having representation in 2017 when a shinner was elected but refused to represent his constituents in Westminster. So unfortunately the only way I can access Westminster today is via a neighbouring MP or a petition. Thanks Sinn Fein!

You're complaining that your local MP is fulfilling their pre-election promise by continuing their long held abstentionist policy?
Dare I say it that it might be a bit hypocritical for them to go against the wishes of their electors and take their seat.

That MP still holds constituency clinics. There's nothing stopping you making local representations there except your own intransigence.

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Keep it to date Francie. My constituency has consistently had representation in Westminster since we elected Frances savage in 1801 until today.

#edit. Apologies, my constituency ceased having representation in 2017 when a shinner was elected but refused to represent his constituents in Westminster. So unfortunately the only way I can access Westminster today is via a neighbouring MP or a petition. Thanks Sinn Fein!

Seems to me that the only way you had to get this debate was to organise an online petition, an MP was pretty much useless in that regard.

Crazy idea of a 'democracy' but you get what you vote for I suppose.

BonnieSituation

markodaly wrote: »

I have to agree with Tommie Gorman here.

If you want to unify the country, you need to unify the people (not geography) and give Unionists a reason to buy into the project and debate.
Eventually, people will have to stop demonising them and try and see what they are about.

Gawd. More maudlin shíte from Tommy. I will not miss him.

Who's demonising Unionists?

You do know there's Nationalists in the North as well? Lest we forget.

downcow

BonnieSituation wrote: »

You're complaining that your local MP is fulfilling their pre-election promise by continuing their long held abstentionist policy?
Dare I say it that it might be a bit hypocritical for them to go against the wishes of their electors and take their seat.

That MP still holds constituency clinics. There's nothing stopping you making local representations there except your own intransigence.

I was not complaining. I simply said it was unfortunate.

With regard to your suggestion that my intransigence stops me visiting my local MP.

His office is named after two members of the local IRA unit who devastated my community with a sectarian bombing and murder campaign including murdering my friends father and also a close neighbour and also bombed other neighbours home. The terrorists names are big and bold above his door.

I’ll ask posters here to comment who is intransigent?
Me, who will not enter his office or him, for putting two murderers names above his office door?

And Francie, would you visit an office for advice if it had the names of Jonny mad dog Adair and billy wright above the door and that the MP inside point blank refuses to condemn their actions but he condemns the actions of the other sides paramilitaries??

Or how about if a local Lderry unionist MP had the paratroopers wings above his door?

Desperate hypocrisy

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Seems to me that the only way you had to get this debate was to organise an online petition, an MP was pretty much useless in that regard.

Crazy idea of a 'democracy' but you get what you vote for I suppose.

Absolutely. My MP is a disaster and an abstentionist

markodaly

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Gawd. More maudlin shíte from Tommy. I will not miss him.

Who's demonising Unionists?

You do know there's Nationalists in the North as well? Lest we forget.

Its a hobby horse for many to be fair. Not all of them are the reincarnation of Ian Paisley.

BonnieSituation

markodaly wrote: »

Its a hobby horse for many to be fair. Not all of them are the reincarnation of Ian Paisley.

So I asked, who are demonising Unionists?

Who are this so-called 'many'?

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

I was not complaining. I simply said it was unfortunate.

With regard to your suggestion that my intransigence stops me visiting my local MP.

His office is named after two members of the local IRA unit who devastated my community with a sectarian bombing and murder campaign including murdering my friends father and also a close neighbour and also bombed other neighbours home. The terrorists names are big and bold above his door.

I’ll ask posters here to comment who is intransigent?
Me, who will not enter his office or him, for putting two murderers names above his office door?

And Francie, would you visit an office for advice if it had the names of Jonny mad dog Adair and billy wright above the door and that the MP inside point blank refuses to condemn their actions but he condemns the actions of the other sides paramilitaries??

Or how about if a local Lderry unionist MP had the paratroopers wings above his door?

Desperate hypocrisy

You should see who the statue outside Stormont is dedicated to and who nationalists have to walk past every single day off the week>

Ever open your eyes when out and about downcow and look at the trappings/celebrations/memorials to the oppressive bigoted state you defend, that are all around you?

Yes, downcow, anytime I visit the north I have to button my lip and get on with it. Because I think both sides should be allowed to remember their dead.

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Absolutely. My MP is a disaster and an abstentionist

Which neatly sidesteps the point. The lack of access to democracy whomsoever is your MP.

You have to raise a petition of 100,000 names JUST to be considered for debate.

BonnieSituation

downcow wrote: »

I was not complaining. I simply said it was unfortunate.

With regard to your suggestion that my intransigence stops me visiting my local MP.

His office is named after two members of the local IRA unit who devastated my community with a sectarian bombing and murder campaign including murdering my friends father and also a close neighbour and also bombed other neighbours home. The terrorists names are big and bold above his door.

I’ll ask posters here to comment who is intransigent?
Me, who will not enter his office or him, for putting two murderers names above his office door?

And Francie, would you visit an office for advice if it had the names of Jonny mad dog Adair and billy wright above the door and that the MP inside point blank refuses to condemn their actions but he condemns the actions of the other sides paramilitaries??

Or how about if a local Lderry unionist MP had the paratroopers wings above his door?

Desperate hypocrisy

Wow. Those goalposts moved fair quick.

But back to the point at hand...

Firstly your problem was that the MP was abstentionist.

When it was pointed out that you could go to the office, you then tell us the office is named for some IRA members.

So by my reckoning, abstentionism isn't the problem at all. You just can't face talking to your local MP cos it's one of Themmuns.

I mean, perhaps going to the office and discussing your issues like an adult might get you further than putting up barriers. You could even bring up the offensive name while there.

I mean we're always told how nationalists always have to compromise. Perhaps he could meet you under a rock in a field, a sort of rock school constituency clinic, so he knows his place.

markodaly

BonnieSituation wrote: »

So I asked, who are demonising Unionists?

Who are this so-called 'many'?

This thread among many others would be a good example.
The DUP apparently have horns and cloven feet.

FrancieBrady

markodaly wrote: »

This thread among many others would be a good example.
The DUP apparently have horns and cloven feet.

Well, as pointed out on another thread, your party seem to have no issue with the DUP.
Even downcow would have nothing to do with them and wouldn't vote for them. No probs with FG though - a round of applause an ex UDR DUP member.

markodaly

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Well, as pointed out on another thread, your party seem to have no issue with the DUP.
Even downcow would have nothing to do with them and wouldn't vote for them. No probs with FG though - a round of applause an ex UDR DUP member.

Who is 'my' party?

Are you privy to something even I am not?

BonnieSituation

markodaly wrote: »

This thread among many others would be a good example.
The DUP apparently have horns and cloven feet.

Who on this thread have demonised Unionists? By all means show us.

Separate to that I believe the DUP should be fired into the sun.

Do you think that the DUP should be dealt with MORE understanding or something? I'm not sure what your issue is here.

BonnieSituation

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Well, as pointed out on another thread, your party seem to have no issue with the DUP.
Even downcow would have nothing to do with them and wouldn't vote for them. No probs with FG though - a round of applause an ex UDR DUP member.

I wouldn't personalise it.

I've learned today that people are mean to unionists and the DUP are misunderstood.

I'm dying to see evidence of same.