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Covid opening and the ring road

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    #32
    what_traffic
    Registered Users Posts: 4,876 ✭✭✭what_traffic


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Aye, maybe, but Ross has issued direction to Cork, Limerick, Waterford and Galway city councils to start implementing "mobility" measures asap with the aim to facilitate a major increase in the numebrs of walkers and cyclists. What will be done and how well it will be done remains to be seen. I remain (naively) hopeful though

    The reluctance Mrs. Bumble mentions in regards to using crowded PT is exactly the driver to invest in these measures asap. The roads around Galway were already over capacity prior to Covid so post-covid either there are alternatives to cars/PT in place or get ready for 2 hr commutes.
    Not sure about Cork, but the Public Transport no's for Limerick and Waterford are for sure worse than Galway City. Galway is nothing on Dublin, its in the single digits in terms of usage; so not the big pressure or those Citys to change anything I reckon. In Dublin they have no choice as no's using Public transport is massive.
    In Galway City people who can cycle and walk will probably, PT will have 1/4 to 1/5 of the peak demand capacity; but when are we going to see this PEAK car traffic demand return though is the question?

    The Galway City Ring Road model is entirely dependent on this PEAK traffic demand; roughly 5h out of 24h. If home working becomes part of the work culture and retail habits change could this peak demand be negated altogether?
    Most offices are only going to have 20/25% workforce in at any one time for the forseeable future.


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    #33
    cooperguy
    Registered Users Posts: 2,650 ✭✭✭cooperguy


    what_traffic wrote: »
    Not sure about Cork, but the Public Transport no's for Limerick and Waterford are for sure worse than Galway City. Galway is nothing on Dublin, its in the single digits in terms of usage; so not the big pressure or those Citys to change anything I reckon. In Dublin they have no choice as no's using Public transport is massive.
    In Galway City people who can cycle and walk will probably, PT will have 1/4 to 1/5 of the peak demand capacity; but when are we going to see this PEAK car traffic demand return though is the question?

    The Galway City Ring Road model is entirely dependent on this PEAK traffic demand; roughly 5h out of 24h. If home working becomes part of the work culture and retail habits change could this peak demand be negated altogether?
    Most offices are only going to have 20/25% workforce in at any one time for the forseeable future.

    That doesn't account for growth over the next few decades. This is a long term infrastructure project, not something that is supposed to be for the next few years of traffic


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    #34
    what_traffic
    Registered Users Posts: 4,876 ✭✭✭what_traffic


    cooperguy wrote: »
    That doesn't account for growth over the next few decades. This is a long term infrastructure project, not something that is supposed to be for the next few years of traffic

    Whats the title of the thread?
    We are talking short to medium term here. i.e 2025-2035
    May not have a return of Peak travel demand of 2019 until 2025? or longer perhaps?;it all depends on what transportation models will be followed during these Covid19 times.


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    #35
    cooperguy
    Registered Users Posts: 2,650 ✭✭✭cooperguy


    what_traffic wrote: »
    Whats the title of the thread?
    We are talking short to medium term here. i.e 2025-2035
    May not have a return of Peak travel demand of 2019 until 2025? or longer perhaps?;it all depends on what transportation models will be followed during these Covid19 times.

    The ring road wont be ready until at least 2025! The ring road is a medium term plan that would be stupid to disrupt over a short term issue.

    Reminds me of the people bleating on about not needing Dublin Airport terminal 2 when they were building it during the recession


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    #36
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    DCC effectively reducing capacity for private vehicles by 30% in Dublin asap


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    #37
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Deleted User wrote: »
    DCC effectively reducing capacity for private vehicles by 30% in Dublin asap

    Respectfully, Dublin has its ring road. Crowded? Yes, but it’s there. Without that then extra pedestrianisation in Galway is a non-runner


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    #38
    what_traffic
    Registered Users Posts: 4,876 ✭✭✭what_traffic


    cooperguy wrote: »
    The ring road wont be ready until at least 2025! The ring road is a medium term plan that would be stupid to disrupt over a short term issue.
    I disagree on the timelines. 2025 is short term. Previous threads I have been saying 2030 as a completion date, now with Covid am pushing that out until 2035/2040.
    The Oral Hearing still not complete.
    How are the peak demand models affected by the pandemic? there are going to be waves of it over next no of years; how many who knows.
    The whole funding priority's of Dept of Transport for next 5 years has changed overnight.


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    #39
    ChewyLouie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 511 ✭✭✭ChewyLouie


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Respectfully, Dublin has its ring road. Crowded? Yes, but it’s there. Without that then extra pedestrianisation in Galway is a non-runner

    Galway already has its ring road too.

    "New Galway Ring Road and Bridge"
    https://www.rte.ie/archives/collections/news/21265447-new-galway-ring-road-and-bridge/

    History repeating itself. Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result..? Induced demand?


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    #40
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    ChewyLouie wrote: »
    Galway already has its ring road too.

    "New Galway Ring Road and Bridge"
    https://www.rte.ie/archives/collections/news/21265447-new-galway-ring-road-and-bridge/

    History repeating itself. Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result..? Induced demand?

    That’s not a ring road. There are parts of the city both sides of it.

    Also your video is from 30 years ago.

    And induced demand is Andrew Wakefield science.

    And even if it wasnmt, If Galway is to go all in on demand suppression, it needs people to move out. I’m starting by moving to Shannon.

    Build the road or tell me to f*ck off. The choice is binary.


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    #41
    ?Cee?view
    Registered Users Posts: 2,836 ✭✭✭?Cee?view


    Deleted User wrote: »

    And induced demand is Andrew Wakefield science.

    Nail on the head here. But to say what you've said on Galway Boards is akin to sacrilege!


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    #42
    ChewyLouie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 511 ✭✭✭ChewyLouie


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Also your video is from 30 years ago.

    It is, what's the plan for 30 years in the future when the 2nd ring road is at capacity?
    3rd ring road with a bridge/tunnel across Lough Corrib?


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    #43
    what_traffic
    Registered Users Posts: 4,876 ✭✭✭what_traffic


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Build the road or tell me to f*ck off. The choice is binary.

    The other choice that ya forgot to mention is that you can ignore this thread so we can continue a civil discussion. :D


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    #44
    Wompa1
    Registered Users Posts: 8,166 ✭✭✭Wompa1


    Ring road might be a waste of time and money if work trends completely change. So many in Galway work in office settings. If there's a big uptake on work from home strategies then the traffic may take care of itself for the most part.

    It might still be sh1te when there's an event on, around Christmas and on weekends but that would mostly be around the city centre which won't really change even with the ring road.


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    #45
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Wompa1 wrote: »
    Ring road might be a waste of time and money if work trends completely change. So many in Galway work in office settings. If there's a big uptake on work from home strategies then the traffic may take care of itself for the most part.

    This!

    For those who can and want to WFH, it has become a realistic possibility for the future. My own place has said that even when things go back to normal, they will have reduced the desk space by 50% and will be allocated based on which category you fall into

    1. - 100% onsite, perm desk
    2. - Up to 50% onsite, shared desk
    3. - 0-50% onsite, hot desk

    For those onsite, no in-person meetings will be allowed without a solid justification and prior approval from Managers etc.

    There are a LOT of staff in the like of Parkmore, Ballybrit that work in roles that do not require them to be onsite for any portion of the work week, with meetings etc, happening through Teams/Zoom etc.

    If this was 5 years ago, yeah it would have been tough to do it well. Now, with all the cloud collaboration tools its extremely easy to do for those who want to and can WFH.

    Obviously it is not for everyone or for every role, but there are a buttload of people/roles where this can be done very easily.

    I'm WFH since this kicked off and I'm looking out at my car, which has had a single fill of fuel in 2 months and I'm honestly thinking about dumping it. It no longer serves any purpose. Between the bike and PT, if I'm not commuting, I don't need it. My bet is there are a lot of other folks thinking similar


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    #46
    Mrs OBumble
    Registered Users Posts: 25,705 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    The majority of workers in Parkmore are in medical device manufacturing or related industries. They will not be working from home, ever.

    The ones who can WFH will ... until their jobs are outsourced to Eastern Europe.

    Be careful what you wish for.


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    #47
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Mrs OBumble wrote: »
    The majority of workers in Parkmore are in medical device manufacturing or related industries. They will not be working from home, ever.

    The ones who can WFH will ... until their jobs are outsourced to Eastern Europe.

    Be careful what you wish for.

    And of course, you can’t ask goods or stretchers to use busses. But sure it’s only ever carscum that use roads, not vans or busses or tractors or ambulances...

    DaCor, if you want a majority WFH workforce, you would need to throw some Molotovs into the factories employing a large chunk of Galwegians. You’d need to destroy them, drive them out, shut them down. Good luck advocating for that.

    I’m off to Shannon anyways.


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    #48
    grbear
    Registered Users Posts: 693 ✭✭✭grbear


    Is anyone talking about having the majority of people working from home? I haven't seen that suggested in here.

    The last few months have shown us that a lot more people are capable of working from home than we had assumed to be the case. That number will only increase as more people are connected to high speed internet connections and more companies adopt services like Teams and Slack.


    Going back to the ring road I think it'll go ahead as planned with the possibility of a few minor alterations. The next step of the plan for Galway will change though. Cycling in particular needs to be given greater priority.


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    #49
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Mrs OBumble wrote: »
    The majority of workers in Parkmore are in medical device manufacturing or related industries. They will not be working from home, ever.

    Umm, you may not be aware, but they are already. If you work there and you are not directly involved in the physical manufacturing, you are not onsite.


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    #50
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Deleted User wrote: »
    And of course, you can’t ask goods or stretchers to use busses. But sure it’s only ever carscum that use roads, not vans or busses or tractors or ambulances...

    DaCor, if you want a majority WFH workforce, you would need to throw some Molotovs into the factories employing a large chunk of Galwegians. You’d need to destroy them, drive them out, shut them down. Good luck advocating for that.

    eh???


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    #51
    ChewyLouie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 511 ✭✭✭ChewyLouie


    Our office in Parkmore is likely to be fairly empty for the next 12 months or more. We can open in August but with restrictions which practically means no team meetings and so we'd be doing our meetings online anyway so may as well continue WFH.

    The future is looking like we'll only need a smaller office space that employees can book for project kick offs, planning/design sessions or client meetings.

    If that is the future, I can imagine a lot more cafes and small lunch options popping up closer to the residential areas for Mon-Fri.
    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    I'm WFH since this kicked off and I'm looking out at my car, which has had a single fill of fuel in 2 months and I'm honestly thinking about dumping it. It no longer serves any purpose.

    Same! Very very tempted to trade it for an electric cargo bike!


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    #52
    Mrs OBumble
    Registered Users Posts: 25,705 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Umm, you may not be aware, but they are already. If you work there and you are not directly involved in the physical manufacturing, you are not onsite.

    And what proportion of the workforce is that?


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    #53
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Mrs OBumble wrote: »
    And what proportion of the workforce is that?

    Varies from place to place but around 40% give or take a few percent


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    #54
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Varies from place to place but around 40% give or take a few percent

    Really?

    You’re telling me for about 30 to 40 twenty-step manufacturing processes, each step with a *minimum* of 1 operator (so 30x20, 600 people) plus the extra quality control & record keeping people that are required by law to oversee manufacturing output on medical devices, not to mention building maintenance and security, that they need 400 managers that are working from home?

    I smell BS.


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    #55
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Really?

    You’re telling me for about 30 to 40 twenty-step manufacturing processes, each step with a *minimum* of 1 operator (so 30x20, 600 people) plus the extra quality control & record keeping people that are required by law to oversee manufacturing output on medical devices, not to mention building maintenance and security, that they need 400 managers that are working from home?

    I smell BS.

    Operators etc obviously can’t work form home but most other roles would have at least some work from home capability, some would be able to do almost all their work from home. Very few skilled roles, even ones that are hands on at times would not have a fairly significant proportions of work that could not be done from home. The you have lots of project managers, program managers, quality involves lots of paper work that could be done from home etc etc.

    My job would look to someone on the outside that it would require me to be onsite all the time but the reality is that the hands on work only accounts for about 20% of my time and all the rest can be done remotely which I have been doing a lot even before covid.


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    #56
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Bronson Gorgeous Instep wrote: »
    Operators etc obviously can’t work form home but most other roles would have at least some work from home capability, some would be able to do almost all their work from home. Very few skilled roles, even ones that are hands on at times would not have a fairly significant proportions of work that could not be done from home. The you have lots of project managers, program managers, quality involves lots of paper work that could be done from home etc etc.

    My job would look to someone on the outside that it would require me to be onsite all the time but the reality is that the hands on work only accounts for about 20% of my time and all the rest can be done remotely which I have been doing a lot even before covid.

    Nox, I know that in both the job I have exited and the one I’m starting in, everything that can be done remotely *is* being done remotely. This isn’t theory, it’s practice.

    There’s still 100s on site.

    There’s more onsite that needs doing than operator’s work.

    Unless you can do *everything* at home, you still need to make the journey. Even if it’s a 5 minute job in an 8 hour day. even if it’s turning a key in a lock, paperwork for the rest of the day, then locking again, you need to make the journey. Lots of non factory jobs can stay home. Good for them. It’s not office blocks in Parkmore, it’s factories. Those factories need bodies, and they can’t stay home.


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    #57
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Really?

    You’re telling me for about 30 to 40 twenty-step manufacturing processes, each step with a *minimum* of 1 operator (so 30x20, 600 people) plus the extra quality control & record keeping people that are required by law to oversee manufacturing output on medical devices, not to mention building maintenance and security, that they need 400 managers that are working from home?

    I smell BS.

    You are seeing 1+1 and getting 3 unfortunately.

    In terms of roles that can WFH:
    Quality systems
    Reg affairs
    Supplier Quality
    Supplier Engineering
    Most of the R&D roles
    A significant portion of the Manufacturing, Quality and Industrial engineering roles would be WFH/flexi onsite
    Design Assurance
    All the different software system and IT support folks with a skeleton crew kept onsite
    The bulk of the supply chain folks
    Admin
    Payroll
    Etc, etc etc

    Most of these medical device sites have a 1.5 to 2.5:1 ratio of direct versus indirect labour. The bigger the site, the higher the ratio.


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    #58
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    You are seeing 1+1 and getting 3 unfortunately.

    In terms of roles that can WFH:
    Quality systems
    Reg affairs
    Supplier Quality
    Supplier Engineering
    Most of the R&D roles
    A significant portion of the Manufacturing, Quality and Industrial engineering roles would be WFH/flexi onsite
    Design Assurance
    All the different software system and IT support folks with a skeleton crew kept onsite
    The bulk of the supply chain folks
    Admin
    Payroll
    Etc, etc etc

    Most of these medical device sites have a 1.5 to 2.5:1 ratio of direct versus indirect labour. The bigger the site, the higher the ratio.

    I’m onsite. I’ve seen all of that happen already. Lean culture means companies are going for it with gusto. I’d love to see where you pulled that ratio out of, because 1 office for every 3 floorstaff sounds like wanton extravagance to me.


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    #59
    PCeeeee
    Registered Users Posts: 1,465 ✭✭✭PCeeeee


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    I’m onsite. I’ve seen all of that happen already. Lean culture means companies are going for it with gusto. I’d love to see where you pulled that ratio out of, because 1 office for every 3 floorstaff sounds like wanton extravagance to me.

    Its typically 1:3. Direct versus indirect labour in our place. Direct labour being Product Builders. This does not include contractors ie cleaners, facilities, canteen etc.

    Office v floorstaff as a descriptor is very misleading. Some indirect labour is a key part of manufacturing. Technicians/Supervisors etc. I have no idea what the actual number of people who do not really need to be onsite is but if it's more than 25% I would be very surprised.


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    #60
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    I’d love to see where you pulled that ratio out of, because 1 office for every 3 floorstaff sounds like wanton extravagance to me.

    I guess it depends on what additional groups are onsite, e.g. Complaints, Reg Affairs etc etc etc. One site could be the hub for these departments across several sites. My experience has found that Galway tends to be that hub, but I can only speak about my experience so it's not not going to be the case across the board


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    #61
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Nox, I know that in both the job I have exited and the one I’m starting in, everything that can be done remotely *is* being done remotely. This isn’t theory, it’s practice.

    There’s still 100s on site.

    There’s more onsite that needs doing than operator’s work.

    Unless you can do *everything* at home, you still need to make the journey. Even if it’s a 5 minute job in an 8 hour day. even if it’s turning a key in a lock, paperwork for the rest of the day, then locking again, you need to make the journey. Lots of non factory jobs can stay home. Good for them. It’s not office blocks in Parkmore, it’s factories. Those factories need bodies, and they can’t stay home.

    Well then you get someone else to turn the key in the lock so the person who only needs to be there to do it can WFH. A lot of onsite stuff could be stacked into the days you are in also. 3 days WFH plus 2 days onsite with the all hands on and face to face stuff organised to be done in these days.


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