Italy re-opening borders to tourists = Wave number 2 in Europe?

ShineOn7

Sorry, but what the fúck?

One of the worst hit countries with it in the world - 242 deaths yesterday alone - is opening back up?

How can this lead to anything but another wave in Europe and us starting all over again in 2 months with more lockdowns? (or as we had in Ireland, "lockdowns")

Italy will re-open to tourists from early June and scrap a mandatory two-week quarantine period, quickening the country’s exit from its coronavirus lockdown.

Italian Prime Minister Giuseppe Conte enforced a shutdown in early March to counter the Covid-19 pandemic, which has killed over 31,500 people in the country.

https://www.thejournal.ie/italy-reopen-borders-tourists-covid-19-5100624-May2020/

What Username Guidelines

Either they know something we don’t, or they need the tourist economy to rev back up quickly. I’m sure lots will be careful and not travel but there’s probably plenty who will see an opportunity for a cheap trip.

NIMAN

Italy was on the verge of going bust in recent times, so I'm guessing they are simply trying to do a balancing act between opening up and starting the economy again, and not killing too many.

I am sure they are putting plans in place to protect the very vulnerable?

ShineOn7

NIMAN wrote: »

I am sure they are putting plans in place to protect the very vulnerable?

Yes but what about all the tourists who go there for cheap deals and bring it back to their country?

Wasn't the initial spread of this in Ireland thought to have stemmed from a large group of Irish returning from a ski trip in Italy?

NIMAN

ShineOn7 wrote: »

Yes but what about all the tourists who go there for cheap deals and bring it back to their country?

Wasn't the initial spread of this in Ireland thought to have stemmed from a large group of Irish returning from a ski trip in Italy?

People have to move around. How long do you think we should stop this happening? 6months? A year? Two years?

As for the other thing, I'm not sure if our infections were all traced back to ski trips to Italy. I'm sure some were, but not all of them. I'm sure there were multiple things like Cheltenham, football fans etc too.

Atlantic Dawn

Those who were going to die in large numbers from it are now dead, they have picked the right time to progress for the rest of the populations health. The attitude some are taking is that people should stay in their bed all day waiting to die to minimise risk of death.

Wibbs

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Those who were going to die in large numbers from it are now dead,

Well, not really. OK if we're talking of regions like northern Italy then yeah, but it didn't rip through all the other regions with vulnerable populations to the same degree. That said we have to get moving again, so it'll be interesting to watch what happens in what was ground zero for a horrible health crisis in Europe.

Kermit.de.frog

ITALY WILL RE-OPEN to tourists from early June

NIMAN

Just wait until you see the garden centres in Ireland on Monday!

deisedevil

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Those who were going to die in large numbers from it are now dead, they have picked the right time to progress for the rest of the populations health. The attitude some are taking is that people should stay in their bed all day waiting to die to minimise risk of death.

I'm sure you've done extensive research to back up your points of course? You didn't go plucking that out of your hole or anything.

RandomViewer

Anyone going will have to isolate on return so hope everyone has plenty of holiday days saved

ShineOn7

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

I pasted it direct from the Journal link Kermit. Many online articles lead with shouty capital letters for the first few words for some strange reason

I'll edit now

NIMAN

RandomViewer wrote: »

Anyone going will have to isolate on return so hope everyone has plenty of holiday days saved

This is hard to police though.

When you fly back in and are told at the airport to isolate, are those people going to follow you home and watch you for the next week or two?

Kermit.de.frog

ShineOn7 wrote: »

I pasted it direct from the Journal link Kermit. Many online articles lead with shouty capital letters for the first few words for some strange reason

I'll edit now

The gif is Europe's reaction! Not the shouting...

Clonmel1000

RandomViewer wrote: »

Anyone going will have to isolate on return so hope everyone has plenty of holiday days saved

For how long though? That isolation on return will only be a short lived measure wait and see.

RandomViewer

NIMAN wrote: »

This is hard to police though.

When you fly back in and are told at the airport to isolate, are those people going to follow you home and watch you for the next week or two?

No but if you land in to work the next day you'll be told to go home until you get tested, no workplace wants a cluster.

rubadub

NIMAN wrote: »

Just wait until you see the garden centres in Ireland on Monday!

They have gardai outside my local tesco a fair bit. I wonder will they be outside these places questioning and turning people away, it is supposed to only be for emergency needs, like a burst pipe or something.

Speaking on This Week on RTÉ Radio 1 on Sunday, Ms Humphreys said: “Hardware stores can operate. I want to stress, this is in a very limited and restricted way.

“It’s not the case that hardware stores should be open to the general public but if you need something as an emergency, for example, if you have a burst pipe in your house, or if there’s a hole in your roof and the rain is coming in, or the fridge gives up.

“Obviously, in emergency cases like that, you and your tradesman are going to need to be able to access certain materials from the hardware shops to fix the problem.

fr336

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Those who were going to die in large numbers from it are now dead, they have picked the right time to progress for the rest of the populations health. The attitude some are taking is that people should stay in their bed all day waiting to die to minimise risk of death.

Such a disingenuous post. Like most countries, most of Italy's population hasn't been infected yet so how could all those who would die from it have died? In the UK we think circa 30k deaths at the moment is beyond awful but left unchecked the government think the reasonable worst case scenario would be 500k dead. People are free to hold the view that lockdown should be ended, but hiding behind demonstratedly wrong nonsense says that they know full well their "arguments" have no foundation and any amount of deaths is worth it for the economic price. Which is ironic as we never have a penny to rub together anyway due to tax dodging corporations but that's another thread.

ShineOn7

NIMAN wrote: »

People have to move around. How long do you think we should stop this happening? 6months? A year? Two years?

Of course they do. But do really think re-opening the country that started the spread of it in the EU this soon is an ok idea?

ChikiChiki

Too quick to reopen.We will see in 4-6 weeks the benefit of our reopening strategy when measured against the Italian reopening one. I have no doubt.

lainey_d_123

Slovenia have also said they won't be imposing quarantine for EU visitors. They're basically down to no new cases, and the virus is gone from there.

I have to say, I'm a bit baffled. If you've got rid of the virus, would you not be doing everything possible to keep it out? As someone stuck in lockdown London, it seems like such a privilege to be able to live our life normally without any fear of being infected. Go shopping, go to bars, see your friends. Everyone back to work as normal, improving the economy. Why on earth would you risk all of that for some tourist dollars? I know tourism is a big deal for some countries, but it doesn't seem remotely worth it.

Kermit.de.frog

The Italian PM has acknowledged they are taking a high risk but claims they have no choice.

MadYaker

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Those who were going to die in large numbers from it are now dead, they have picked the right time to progress for the rest of the populations health. The attitude some are taking is that people should stay in their bed all day waiting to die to minimise risk of death.

That could only be true if every person in Italy had been infected. They are miles away from that point. Even in the north theres still millions who weren't infected. They have to open up but the virus is going nowhere and will spread again once they do. Its the same for all of us.

Stheno

rubadub wrote: »

They have gardai outside my local tesco a fair bit. I wonder will they be outside these places questioning and turning people away, it is supposed to only be for emergency needs, like a burst pipe or something.

Have you a link to that quote from Heather Hunpries and when she said it?

NegativeCreep

RandomViewer wrote: »

No but if you land in to work the next day you'll be told to go home until you get tested, no workplace wants a cluster.

There’d be no reason for them to know that you were in Rome for the weekend.

GT89

I'd tell you what next week I'm off work and if there was a flight going I'd bite your arm off for it. I'm sick to death of working my arse off as an essiential worker only to be told I must stay at home for my summer holiday. I think I bloody well deserve a week in the sun.

lainey_d_123

NIMAN wrote: »

People have to move around. How long do you think we should stop this happening? 6months? A year? Two years?

As for the other thing, I'm not sure if our infections were all traced back to ski trips to Italy. I'm sure some were, but not all of them. I'm sure there were multiple things like Cheltenham, football fans etc too.

Well, rather than an arbitrary number of months, should it not be when the virus is under control? 262 deaths a day when you're well past the peak doesn't seem 'under control' to me.

I agree this situation can't go on forever, and the effects of it are starting to outweigh the benefits, in terms of mental health, the economy and other things, but the last thing you'd want is starting up too soon and it all going to sh1t again, for the sake of a few months. No point in making a bit of money from tourists if you have to lock down again for months after another surge in cases. Seems like it would be sensible for every country to keep their borders closed for the foreseeable future until cases are down to almost nothing, no?

lainey_d_123

GT89 wrote: »

I'd tell you what next week I'm off work and if there was a flight going I'd bite your arm off for it. I'm sick to death of working my arse off as an essiential worker only to be told I must stay at home for my summer holiday. I think I bloody well deserve a week in the sun.

Would you enjoy it though?

I feel the same as you, absolutely desperate to get away and haven't taken any leave in over a year now. Was meant to go away in April but it got cancelled. But as much as I'd love a holiday, I'm not sure it'd be much of a holiday with worrying about getting ill at the airport or on the plane, wondering if your hotel room was properly cleaned, if your food was safe, if anyone in the hotel had coronavirus, etc. I feel like I'd end up more stressed than when I left.

GT89

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

The Italian PM has acknowledged they are taking a high risk but claims they have no choice.

And if there's no economy who's going to pay for all those ventilators, PPE and ICU beds if the second wave comes? If we keep using the lockdown to stop the spread of covid eventually the economy will collapse and more people will die as they won't be able to get medical supplies.

Kermit.de.frog

GT89 wrote: »

And if there's no economy who's going to pay for all those ventilators, PPE and ICU beds if the second wave comes? If we keep using the lockdown to stop the spread of covid eventually the economy will collapse and more people will die as they won't be able to get medical supplies.

This is true however there is also the thorny issue of Italian mismanagement over generations of their financial affairs which leaves them hopelessly exposed in any crisis.

jhegarty

Italy as whole can continue without tourism. But there are parts of Italy that cannot.

kenmc

We've a holiday booked to Italy first week in July. Won't be going. Not worth the risk. Aerlingus vouchers +10% value, push it out to next year.

Dtp1979

GT89 wrote: »

I'd tell you what next week I'm off work and if there was a flight going I'd bite your arm off for it. I'm sick to death of working my arse off as an essiential worker only to be told I must stay at home for my summer holiday. I think I bloody well deserve a week in the sun.

That kind of attitude is gonna kill a lot of people

JJayoo

The UK is far worse than Italy, why isn't the OP crying about the UK being open?

GT89

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

Would you enjoy it though?

I feel the same as you, absolutely desperate to get away and haven't taken any leave in over a year now. Was meant to go away in April but it got cancelled. But as much as I'd love a holiday, I'm not sure it'd be much of a holiday with worrying about getting ill at the airport or on the plane, wondering if your hotel room was properly cleaned, if your food was safe, if anyone in the hotel had coronavirus, etc. I feel like I'd end up more stressed than when I left.

Tbh I'm not really bothered by the virus. I'm not in a high risk category and I am well able to avoid anyone who is. What stresses me out more is other people's reaction.

ShineOn7

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

The Italian PM has acknowledged they are taking a high risk but claims they have no choice.

No choice but to spread it again and have another lockdown in a month?



Terrible logic from their PM tbh

ShineOn7

GT89 wrote: »

I'd tell you what next week I'm off work and if there was a flight going I'd bite your arm off for it. I'm sick to death of working my arse off as an essiential worker only to be told I must stay at home for my summer holiday. I think I bloody well deserve a week in the sun.

You'd fly into the country that started the spread of this in the EU and still has a huge number of casualties a day?



Seriously?

hmmm

ShineOn7 wrote: »

No choice but to spread it again and have another lockdown in a month?

Tourism is something like 15% of their economy, and a lot of that 15% comes over the next few months.

Even if there was a second wave, it wouldn't come that quickly as social distancing rules are still in force - it would build up over a few months, and not as quickly as the first wave.

I'm guessing they figure it's worth the risk to make a huge amount of money over the coming months, and if they have to lockdown in October/November for a few weeks it's not the end of the world. I expect Greece and maybe Spain might do something similar.

Utimately we are going to have to learn to live with this virus until hopefully a vaccine or treatment emerges, and maybe a holiday somewhere you are almost certainly going to be outdoors is the right thing. Personally I'd be avoiding public transport, and hopefully the airlines and airports will do something to avoid crowded terminals (big tents outside?).

Mike3287

ShineOn7 wrote: »

You'd fly into the country that started the spread of this in the EU and still has a huge number of casualties a day?

Seriously?

Why not

Hes young and fit

More chance of him dieing on the plane over

99.9% of young people like him survive this

It aint a death sentence

Its not rabies

NIMAN

ShineOn7 wrote: »

No choice but to spread it again and have another lockdown in a month?



Terrible logic from their PM tbh

But there is a difference this time.
1st time, people were going about their normal lives, knew nothing of the virus or how to help curb it.

This time people are going about their normal lives, within Gov restrictions which may still be in place,and they are socially distancing, washing their hands, possibly wearing masks and gloves etc.

Opening after lockdown isn't like being open pre-lockdown. We all know so much more.

Kermit.de.frog

hmmm wrote: »

Tourism is something like 15% of their economy, and a lot of that 15% comes over the next few months.

Even if there was a second wave, it wouldn't come that quickly as social distancing rules are still in force - it would build up over a few months, and not as quickly as the first wave.

I'm guessing they figure it's worth the risk to make a huge amount of money over the coming months, and if they have to lockdown in October/November for a few weeks it's not the end of the world. I expect Greece and maybe Spain might do something similar.

Utimately we are going to have to learn to live with this virus until hopefully a vaccine or treatment emerges, and maybe a holiday somewhere you are almost certainly going to be outdoors is the right thing. Personally I'd be avoiding public transport, and hopefully the airlines and airports will do something to avoid crowded terminals (big tents outside?).

Yes but the problem occurs when people see imagery from over stretched hospitals and coffins piling up with military trucks having to provide transport for said coffins to overwhelmed funeral homes as happened in March.

The public won't tolerate that.

GT89

ShineOn7 wrote: »

You'd fly into the country that started the spread of this in the EU and still has a huge number of casualties a day?



Seriously?

I'm entitled to a bloody holiday after working my ass off. I have the money and I think I've earned it. Tbh I'd probably get more health benefit out going on holiday from vitamin D. Too add insult to injury I have no doubt the Germans will be in Italy in they're droves this summer.

ednwireland

cant afford not to simple really. unfortunately the death toll is the cost.
if you want to keep the stuff you have then this is the price. the government anywhere will not keep paying a significant proportion of the working population to sit at home as it simply cant afford it. hence the economy has to open up.
the only thing I'm surprised at is that it closed to the extent it did

yes I am a complete cynic

ShineOn7

hmmm wrote: »

Tourism is something like 15% of their economy, and a lot of that 15% comes over the next few months.

25% of Thailand's GDP comes from Tourism. I've read a staggering 66% of Bali's comes from it

Yet neither are planning on re-opening

What we're seeing from Italy's government, America's and more is them succumbing to pressure from businesses there

ednwireland

ShineOn7 wrote: »

What we're seeing from Italy's government, America's and more is them succumbing to pressure from businesses there

and if they dont reopen how will you wages get paid how will the hospitals and doctors and nurses get paid. please tell me.

GT89

It needs to be remembered it's not anyones fault this has spread for doing normal everyday things. The fault lies completely and totally with China but if you criticize China for crippling your economy and killing thousands of your citizens unesscarily at a national level then it's no masks for you

NIMAN

ednwireland wrote: »

and if they dont reopen how will you wages get paid how will the hospitals and doctors and nurses get paid. please tell me.

Borrow it on the never/never like us?

mulbot

GT89 wrote: »

It needs to be remembered it's not anyones fault this has spread for doing normal everyday things. The fault lies completely and totally with China

And a bit with the guy who sent over the 3.7 million dollars for from the US to the Wuhan lab?

iguana

NIMAN wrote: »

This is hard to police though.

When you fly back in and are told at the airport to isolate, are those people going to follow you home and watch you for the next week or two?

That blogpost from the woman returning home to Hong Kong a couple of days ago showed that everyone entering the country had to wear an electronic tagging bracelet for 14 days. (After they had tested negative at the airport.)

lainey_d_123

ShineOn7 wrote: »

No choice but to spread it again and have another lockdown in a month?



Terrible logic from their PM tbh

I suppose there's two ways of seeing it (vastly simplified, of course)

1) This is an acute problem, and we should be very aggressive in dealing with it now, shutting down as much as possible until cases and risk are at a very, very low level.

2) This is something we're going to have to live with for several years, minimum, and shutting everything down isn't an option, so we'll have to do some trial and error while getting back to something approaching 'normal'.

ChelseaRentBoy

I think the Italian PM said they have to do it. I'll be honest i think eventually everyone is going to have a second wave and there is little we can do about it.

Some top guy in the US said a few days ago that this coming winter could very well be the darkest in living memory. Gave me pause for thought.