Everyone is too negative.

LegacyUser

I struggle with negative people and negativity in general and I feel like it's impacting me. I wouldn't consider myself a super positive person and I can definitely be very cynical but I feel like most people are so negative and it genuinely upsets me. It's pretty bad at the moment as I'm staying with my parents during lockdown and they're both incredibly negative in different ways.

My dad is negative about the world in a way that I suppose is sort of typical of older people. It was great in his but is awful now. But even the way he speaks is negative - I don't think he's ever described something as "good" just "not too bad" etc. My mother is negative in a worrying way. She refuses to be comforted, accept things she can't change or change the things she can. Despite coming from a well off background and being comfortable now she constantly worries about running out of food. The latest is that my 6 month old nephew hasn't rolled over yet. Definitely odd but not so unusual. The paedeatrician has said not to worry so my mother told my sister to start looking into specialists. She's googling infant symtoms of things like SMA and DMD.

In work nothing can be viewed in a positive light or you're considered naive or stupid. I feel like people see the worst in each other all the time. MY housemate comes home everyday (pre-coronavirus obviously) with a story about somebody being a bad person or worried that she's upset someone.

I used to think it was great that I didn't worry about these things or chose not to dwell on them but now sometimes I wish I was like everyone else so I wouldn't have to constantly be on guard. My dad goes for a walk everyday and he couldn't come back with a story about some wildlife, no, it's always about terrible people not social distancing, littering, being to loud whatever. My mother is the same. I feel sometimes like I'm missing something. It's not that littering doesn't bother me, it really does but moaning about it to everyone doesn't make it better does it? I hope my nephew has nothing wrong with him but I can see that worrying is going to make him roll. It makes me down and anxious to here people talk like that. I often avoid loved ones or don't join working-groups in work because I can't cope.

Finchie1276

It's an Irish thing. My mother is the same so I don't tell her anything and edit anything I need to say.
We are programmed to be negative I think. Always looking backwards or for the next catastrophe. You can though manage things by gentle push back:
'Wow, do you always think like that?
Hmmm, thats an interesting perspective, do you think there is a more positive way to look at that?
" Have you always been so focussed on negative outcomes?
" Do you mean to be so negative?

These are all favourites of mine that slowly turn the focus back on them !

Jimmy Bottlehead

Old school cultural issue, OP.

I grew up with this and once I moved away, it was like living in a different world. It still is.

The only advice I can offer is to build your life going forward with more positivity in it. Too much negativity is crushing, but it's up to you to craft your world, or rather, who you choose to let into it.

redfox123

Very much an Irish thing, and more in general a human thing. It’s natural for the default to look for negative as it’s a survival mechanism. The human brain has to look for threats or reasons for worry so as to be ready to tackle them in order to be safe. We don’t have to tackle wild animals anymore to survive but we have the same brain so it comes out in constant low level anxiety, and complaining, finding fault..
So in reality your brain is like this too so you’re looking to others for comfort but all you’re getting is the same. The positive thinking stuff is new agey American thing for a lot of the older generation and you won’t change their thinking patterns at their age. You won’t find them suddenly saying everything is amaaaazing, like most Irish it will be the ‘ah not so bad, or not the worst’ etc.
You are more aware of it so actively can change your thinking.

If you think of it as fundamentally coming from a good place, as in worrying about someone because they care so much, or complaining because they want the world to be a much better place then it might not get to you so much.
It might bother you just as much if they never seemed to care and were complacent with a very low standard of living, and there are indeed plenty like this too.
I think a healthy sense of realism is the answer. Don’t ignore the weeds in the garden, acknowledging and tackling them (not avoiding them/pretending they’re not there) is just as important as appreciating the flowers.
So when your parents are bringing up issues and problems try be solution orientated, say hmm what can we do about this problem.. if you keep saying this you might find they may bring up less things to complain about!

HildaOgdenx

I suppose the only thing you can do is control your own reaction to the negativity, as best you can. Try to focus on positive things for yourself, listen to music, watch something funny on tv/ online, or whatever helps you to tune out and relax.

Compartmentalise the negative comments, if you can, and do your best to forget about them. I know, it's a difficult time for everyone, for different reasons, and being at close quarters with family, when you're more used to being away, and independent, brings its own challenges.

Get out of the house and go for a run, or a walk if possible. Clears the head, gives you a break, and gets the endorphins going. If negativity has become the default for your parents, you can only try, as pp suggested, to turn the conversation onto a more positive plane.

Your workplace doesn't sound great, maybe it's time to look around for new opportunities, moving team, or role or whatever is possible. In relation to your housemate, I would say, do you mind if we don't talk about work, and see if that helps. It's tiresome listening to someone if that's all the conversation that they have.

Most of all, protect your own mental health, especially as you mention that you are starting to feel down and anxious.

Lyan

Probably shouldn't be here on boards if it bothers you.

Hannibal_Smith

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leggo

A few things to remember that can help when you get stuck in mindsets like this:

1) There are positive people too and positivity out there. Although I’m certain that what you’re saying is happening, be mindful that this is what you’re choosing to focus on instead. It could be your brain’s way of communicating that changes are needed, or it could be that perhaps you’re feeling a bit depressed or generally down yourself (which is totally understandable, a lot are). A telltale sign of depression is seeing the world as wrong and blaming others for negativity you’re feeling, and a lot of people don’t even realise they are until it overwhelms them. But the first sign of recovering from it is connecting with it and acknowledging its existence within you.

2) Remember also that you’re also giving these people and emotions energy by letting what they say stick to you. I’ll give you an example to illustrate how it can be: ever see someone in that dumb puppy love phase when they meet someone and how negativity just seems to bounce off them like teflon, and they just want everyone else to have a slice of the happiness they have? That’s because they’re only giving mental energy to the positive things in their lives. You can do that too, it’s a choice. But you have to mentally train yourself and fight it constantly, identify when you’re getting in that train of thought and consciously stop yourself when the negative thoughts start swirling, as well as being protective of yourself and minimising these people’s opportunities to try penetrate your happiness. It won’t happen overnight, like I said it’s something you have to do consciously and fight before it becomes a habit and then becomes your default, but it can be done. Again, acknowledging and taking ownership of it is the first step, which you’ve started here.

3) Lastly remember that you are the sum of the people you surround yourself with. So as good as the above steps are, if the only people you have in your life are like this, eventually you’ll lose the battles we describe because it’ll be all you hear. I know it’s difficult to do right now, but try slowly but steadily to make sure that the people you have around you the majority of the time you can control have the mindset you’d like to have. That way you’re re-enforcing the positivity instead of battling the negativity.

It may sound a bit hippy-dippy now and unattainable OP, but it really is. Taking responsibility and ownership for your own happiness is the first step. We resist it because it feels like we’d be taking ‘blame’ for a state we know we’re not completely at fault for, but really it’s not about blame for the past and more control of your future. Once you do that, you can start improving things pretty much immediately.

LegacyUser

OP here, thanks for the replies, they made me feel a lot better. I honestly thought I was just going to get lots of people telling me to get over myself.

I haven't read through them all in detail but will in a bit. The main problem is just my inability to deal with the neativity or let it wash over me. It really turns me away from people but it also makes me sad for people. Like with the example of my nephew. Absolute worst case scenario is he has some sort of life limiting illness - most likely is his parents haven't been doing enough tummy time (or whatever). But regardless of the outcome my mother will have spent months of his first years analising every move he makes and having sleepless nihts rather than just enjoying his babyhood...which is ironically even more traic if here is something wrong. Why can't she see that?

My parents don't have the best realationship and again I think it's partly because they see the worst in everyone so when my mother gives her opinion my dad assumes she's just disagreeing with him for the sake of it, so he points out flaws with her idea. So she assumes he's trying to look smarter than her and gets defensive. And I just can't stand it. Why can't they give each other (or anyone else) the benefit of the doubt.

I know it will be easier when lockdown is relaxed more and I can go hom but it's a problem I have with a lot of people, my parents just happen to be a pretty intense version of it.

ILoveYourVibes

I don't think its a cultural thing. I think its a modern thing.

People are grumpy bitter and easily defeated.

Just keep your positivity mental shield up. Let go of negative people.

Try and say three positive things to people each day. Be supportive to yourself.

Work hard and anticipate the best.

Its what i am trying anyway

rtron

I used to think positively and say more positive things, it doesn't seem to win me any friends. So I started to join in with the negative way of speech now just to fit in. Its a case of say but don't mean it.

But I do not cross the line at pure offending or talking ill of anyone behind their back.

Also I have noticed a look of disgust on people faces when I speak up - Like they are allowed to be miserable and be grumpy but I if I say it its well a bit unsociable.

I'm Still figuring this stuff out...

Flimsy_Boat

The Irish don't have a patent on miserable people. People whine the world over, because life is hard and most people aren't that lucky.

I had a friend stop talking to me because I annoyed her with my positivity. I'd rather be annoying than miserable any day of the week. The misery she attracted in her life far exceeds mine and it is all down to her anger issues, inferiority complex that drives her to seek popularity and being negative all the time. Can't stand these types. Stay away, OP. You are fine the way you are, and relish your happiness. It's rare.

splinter65

Finchie1276 wrote: »

It's an Irish thing. My mother is the same so I don't tell her anything and edit anything I need to say.
We are programmed to be negative I think. Always looking backwards or for the next catastrophe. You can though manage things by gentle push back:
'Wow, do you always think like that?
Hmmm, thats an interesting perspective, do you think there is a more positive way to look at that?
" Have you always been so focussed on negative outcomes?
" Do you mean to be so negative?

These are all favourites of mine that slowly turn the focus back on them !

What these “push backs” actually are is passive aggressive put downs that in my opinion only exacerbate the situation. It’s almost bullying. No one has the right to make snide comments like this to make other people feel bad. If you don’t like the people you find irritating then it’s not your job or your business to change them or correct them. Just don’t impose yourself on them any more and the jobs a gud’un.

qwerty13

splinter65 wrote: »

What these “push backs” actually are is passive aggressive put downs that in my opinion only exacerbate the situation. It’s almost bullying. No one has the right to make snide comments like this to make other people feel bad. If you don’t like the people you find irritating then it’s not your job or your business to change them or correct them. Just don’t impose yourself on them any more and the jobs a gud’un.

That struck me too. And I’ve reduced contact with certain people in my life because they’re quite negative. But this struck me as actually aggressive, not even passive aggressive. And very definitely not gentle.

Personally OP, I would not recommend this approach. My view would be don’t engage in an ongoing cycle of negative conversations. But, in an odd way, you’re being negative in not letting others express their views! I know that sounds odd. And maybe I can’t explain it properly. I think it’s a more positive outlook on life to let people express their views, even when you don’t necessarily agree with them. I think it’s quite negative to want to shut down dissenting points of view.

I’d say listen to others, you don’t have to agree with them or get drawn in. But the act of listening is a positive thing. You don’t have to take their views on board, or let it get to you. If anything, I’d say it would be good if you could work on not letting views differing from your own get you down. If you find that too difficult, then reduce contact with the person

Finchie1276

qwerty13 wrote: »

That struck me too. And I’ve reduced contact with certain people in my life because they’re quite negative. But this struck me as actually aggressive, not even passive aggressive. And very definitely not gentle.

Personally OP, I would not recommend this approach. My view would be don’t engage in an ongoing cycle of negative conversations. But, in an odd way, you’re being negative in not letting others express their views! I know that sounds odd. And maybe I can’t explain it properly. I think it’s a more positive outlook on life to let people express their views, even when you don’t necessarily agree with them. I think it’s quite negative to want to shut down dissenting points of view.

I’d say listen to others, you don’t have to agree with them or get drawn in. But the act of listening is a positive thing. You don’t have to take their views on board, or let it get to you. If anything, I’d say it would be good if you could work on not letting views differing from your own get you down. If you find that too difficult, then reduce contact with the person

OK, I think I need to explain more.
It's interesting you both found those to be aggressive in tone. As an Irish person whop lived abroad for quite a while I was very struck by exactly how you have both interpreted the examples I gave. I don't want this to sound strange but have either of you ever lived in Europe? Germany? Holland? Sweden? There you get feedback exactly like that. Very direct. Very clear. In Ireland it appears to elicit an emotional response and we couch it in very soft language.

So, in an actual conversation this is how I would use one of the above:

My Mother: Mary down the road is always giving out and never invites me in for a cup of coffee. I don't think she likes me at all.

Me: Hmmm, thats an interesting perspective, do you think there is a more positive way to look at that?

My Mother: What do you mean? Its clear she is going out of her way not to invite me in.

Me: I don't know if thats true - what evidence do you have that makes you think that?

My Mother: Well thats the second time it happened.

Me: Do you mean to be so negative? Because if you go looking for evidence you will usually find it and its always easier to find things that make us think the worst. Maybe next time you could invite Mary up for a coffee or make a plan to go for a walk.

Its a simple scenario but each of the examples I gave you are from CBT - challenging/ putting the judge and jury on thinking to move away from being emotionally led/ catastrophic thinking.

So I don't think they are passive aggressive. I think the issue here is twofold:

1. Your parents interpersonal relationship and bickering style gets to you. They cannot self regulate their emotions nor can they express their needs clearly. They use a 'code of behaviour'. As you were brought up with them you are 'in' on this code, whether you like it or not.

2. When you see this playing out, you too get frustrated and see that you are not able to self regulate your emotions like they are not (because your family style is not to be healthy around needs). If you look at the issue you explained - you too are trapped by not knowing how to react or fix it.

You have choices:

1. You can call them out on it/ challenge them as I have shown (call it passive aggressive if you want but given how you have described your family situation I think that would, with respect, be a bit rich)

2. You can ignore it - but only if you don't bring it home with you - there is no point in ignoring it it if it internally enrages you.

3. You can accept it by learning to self soothe ' Thats how my mam and dad are' 'I recognise thats how they interact' 'Thats their stuff' ' Isn't it great I can see how damaging that kind of communication is etc'

So, I'm not encouraging you to be passive aggressive but I definitely think in this situation you are being super passive in accepting it and then being enraged/ frustrated. So, challenge gently. It's not aggressive to ask someone if they always think so negatively - its a valid question.

I hope his clarifies my intent. If you think my questions are aggressive then maybe look at why you think that? Are you afraid to challenge, afraid of conflict?

It a very Irish thing to not rock the boat. But we can and should especially if it results in healthier behaviours.

Finchie1276

splinter65 wrote: »

What these “push backs” actually are is passive aggressive put downs that in my opinion only exacerbate the situation. It’s almost bullying. No one has the right to make snide comments like this to make other people feel bad. If you don’t like the people you find irritating then it’s not your job or your business to change them or correct them. Just don’t impose yourself on them any more and the jobs a gud’un.

But they are not snide comments to make anyone feel bad. People choose how they feel. Its absolutely not our job to change them. The OP has an issue in how they get frustrated with the tone of conversation and this is one way to get the conversation into logic as opposed to emotion.

Finchie1276

happygolucky11 wrote: »

OP here, thanks for the replies, they made me feel a lot better. I honestly thought I was just going to get lots of people telling me to get over myself.




The below might help?


I haven't read through them all in detail but will in a bit. The main problem is just my inability to deal with the neativity or let it wash over me. It really turns me away from people but it also makes me sad for people. But thats not your issue - its their negativity, why does it trigger you? Like with the example of my nephew. Absolute worst case scenario is he has some sort of life limiting illness - Thats a hugely big jump - it is highly unlikely there is anything wrong and if there was it would be his parents who would address it, not your mother. most likely is his parents haven't been doing enough tummy time (or whatever). Or whatever, their stuff. But regardless of the outcome my mother will have spent months of his first years analising every move he makes and having sleepless nihts rather than just enjoying his babyhood...which is ironically even more traic if here is something wrong. Why can't she see that? Because her modus operandi for this since she has been a tiny child is to go into anxious thinking rather than logical argument. I get it, we are hard wired for negativity but its our job to challenge it. Her pattern is about not being able to tolerate ambiguity. It's what anxious people do. Instead of healthily saying that she hopes he will be ok she ruminates on it and 'infects' you with the same thinking. CBT would change her thought pattern. It's how people who have phobias get cured - change the association and the behaviour changes.

My parents don't have the best realationship and again I think it's partly because they see the worst in everyone so when my mother gives her opinion my dad assumes she's just disagreeing with him for the sake of it, so he points out flaws with her idea. Thats their model for how they deal with difference and stress, but it's theirs, not yours. So she assumes he's trying to look smarter than her and gets defensive. And I just can't stand it. Why can't they give each other (or anyone else) the benefit of the doubt. Kudos for working it out - thats half the battle, really, now learn not to get triggered by it, because you need to change your association to react to their stuff? Then they can have your stuff and you can let them at it. In my experience we all have glitches we need to work on and this is yours. I put a note on the post below which I hope helps. Sorry for the big responses but I have had this a lot and fixed it and its great.

I know it will be easier when lockdown is relaxed more and I can go hom but it's a problem I have with a lot of people, my parents just happen to be a pretty intense version of it.

I hope it helps

splinter65

Finchie1276 wrote: »

OK, I think I need to explain more.
It's interesting you both found those to be aggressive in tone. As an Irish person whop lived abroad for quite a while I was very struck by exactly how you have both interpreted the examples I gave. I don't want this to sound strange but have either of you ever lived in Europe? Germany? Holland? Sweden? There you get feedback exactly like that. Very direct. Very clear. In Ireland it appears to elicit an emotional response and we couch it in very soft language.

So, in an actual conversation this is how I would use one of the above:

My Mother: Mary down the road is always giving out and never invites me in for a cup of coffee. I don't think she likes me at all.

Me: Hmmm, thats an interesting perspective, do you think there is a more positive way to look at that?

My Mother: What do you mean? Its clear she is going out of her way not to invite me in.

Me: I don't know if thats true - what evidence do you have that makes you think that?

My Mother: Well thats the second time it happened.

Me: Do you mean to be so negative? Because if you go looking for evidence you will usually find it and its always easier to find things that make us think the worst. Maybe next time you could invite Mary up for a coffee or make a plan to go for a walk.

Its a simple scenario but each of the examples I gave you are from CBT - challenging/ putting the judge and jury on thinking to move away from being emotionally led/ catastrophic thinking.

So I don't think they are passive aggressive. I think the issue here is twofold:

1. Your parents interpersonal relationship and bickering style gets to you. They cannot self regulate their emotions nor can they express their needs clearly. They use a 'code of behaviour'. As you were brought up with them you are 'in' on this code, whether you like it or not.

2. When you see this playing out, you too get frustrated and see that you are not able to self regulate your emotions like they are not (because your family style is not to be healthy around needs). If you look at the issue you explained - you too are trapped by not knowing how to react or fix it.

You have choices:

1. You can call them out on it/ challenge them as I have shown (call it passive aggressive if you want but given how you have described your family situation I think that would, with respect, be a bit rich)

2. You can ignore it - but only if you don't bring it home with you - there is no point in ignoring it it if it internally enrages you.

3. You can accept it by learning to self soothe ' Thats how my mam and dad are' 'I recognise thats how they interact' 'Thats their stuff' ' Isn't it great I can see how damaging that kind of communication is etc'

So, I'm not encouraging you to be passive aggressive but I definitely think in this situation you are being super passive in accepting it and then being enraged/ frustrated. So, challenge gently. It's not aggressive to ask someone if they always think so negatively - its a valid question.

I hope his clarifies my intent. If you think my questions are aggressive then maybe look at why you think that? Are you afraid to challenge, afraid of conflict?

It a very Irish thing to not rock the boat. But we can and should especially if it results in healthier behaviours.

I haven’t been around boards much today but if this isn’t the most patronising post of the day then I’d like to see the one that beats it!! In the spirit of the thread , fair play to you for not being to shy about it! Be yourself, everyone else is taken !

Finchie1276

splinter65 wrote: »

I haven’t been around boards much today but if this isn’t the most patronising post of the day then I’d like to see the one that beats it!! In the spirit of the thread , fair play to you for not being to shy about it! Be yourself, everyone else is taken !

Why thank you! I like to think I have a nice healthy sense of self. Hopefully it will be of help to the OP. Thanks again for your insight. Did you mean to hijack the thread?

lainey_d_123

splinter65 wrote: »

What these “push backs” actually are is passive aggressive put downs that in my opinion only exacerbate the situation. It’s almost bullying. No one has the right to make snide comments like this to make other people feel bad. If you don’t like the people you find irritating then it’s not your job or your business to change them or correct them. Just don’t impose yourself on them any more and the jobs a gud’un.

I have to agree. Toxic positivity is a thing, and it's finally getting some air time. Venting is good for mental health in many cases. There's nothing worse than being around someone who makes you feel like you can't ever complain or say anything negative, especially in an environment that should be 'safe', like home, or in a relationship.

Finchie1276

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

I have to agree. Toxic positivity is a thing, and it's finally getting some air time. Venting is good for mental health in many cases. There's nothing worse than being around someone who makes you feel like you can't ever complain or say anything negative, especially in an environment that should be 'safe', like home, or in a relationship.

How does the post illustrate toxic positivity?

The issue is the OP can't deal with the negativity. The issues they face are specifically around helping themselves to encourage their parent to communicate in a healthy way. I agree, venting is important but not on a lifelong basis where it makes your adult child not want to be around you.

leggo

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

Toxic positivity is a thing, and it's finally getting some air time. Venting is good for mental health in many cases.

When you are creating excuses to be unhappy and trying to validate how the world is wrong and that you’re right to be stuck in this negative mindset, that is a clear cut sign of depression at work. Depression is not good for mental health. It’s pretty much exactly what you’re looking to avoid when it comes to having good mental health.

Venting has its place as a means to letting negativity out to get into a more positive mindset. The fact that you see positivity as ‘toxic’, though, is alarming but not uncommon. Depression isn’t a million miles away from addiction in that it will try convince you and twist your brain by any means that it is the solution to your problems, hence you get mindsets like this: “Why look forward to anything in case it doesn’t happen and you end up disappointed?” “Why get into relationships because you’ll only get hurt?” “Why have goals because they probably won’t happen and then you’ll be more miserable than you already are now?” and so on. All are deliberate attempts from your brain to talk you out of being positive, productive or happy in life, and THAT’S what’s toxic.

Hannibal_Smith

OP I think your parents have your senses heightened to negativity, so by the time some one else brings it to your door it's almost boiling over.

So I don't think it's that you can't cope with negativity, I think you've had too much exposure to it, it sets off alarm bells as soon as you hear it.

People will complain, such as your housemate coming home with stories etc, thats normal. There is no more depth to it than a bit of a vent and we all do that. They'll be over it in an hour or so.

Your parents are a different issue and I know it because my parents and my mother are the same. My mother is a sponge of negativity and it is draining. But I let it wash over me and don't take it in. It's not fair that one person gets to dictate a negative tone all the time. But if you don't take it to heart it can't affect you. It's not easy though!

lainey_d_123

leggo wrote: »

When you are creating excuses to be unhappy and trying to validate how the world is wrong and that you’re right to be stuck in this negative mindset, that is a clear cut sign of depression at work. Depression is not good for mental health. It’s pretty much exactly what you’re looking to avoid when it comes to having good mental health.

Venting has its place as a means to letting negativity out to get into a more positive mindset. The fact that you see positivity as ‘toxic’, though, is alarming but not uncommon. Depression isn’t a million miles away from addiction in that it will try convince you and twist your brain by any means that it is the solution to your problems, hence you get mindsets like this: “Why look forward to anything in case it doesn’t happen and you end up disappointed?” “Why get into relationships because you’ll only get hurt?” “Why have goals because they probably won’t happen and then you’ll be more miserable than you already are now?” and so on. All are deliberate attempts from your brain to talk you out of being positive, productive or happy in life, and THAT’S what’s toxic.

I didn't say positivity was toxic. I said 'toxic positivity' is a concept. It's often a way for people to basically bully others into not talking about anything negative, often so it doesn't inconvenience them. It's a way of silencing people and encouraging them to bottle up their worries and concerns.

Feeling down is part of life. It's normal to vent and complain sometimes. Someone saying 'hey, is it so bad? Why don't you look on the bright side' is not being helpful, they are minimising someone's problems. It's especially toxic when it's said by someone who has few problems of their own.

It's easy to tell someone 'cheer up, it might never happen'. It's a lot harder to actually be there for someone. I have a friend going through a hard time and I listen to him vent almost every day. It can be draining and difficult for me, but I do it, because that's what friends are for.

Finchie1276

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

I didn't say positivity was toxic. I said 'toxic positivity' is a concept. It's often a way for people to basically bully others into not talking about anything negative, often so it doesn't inconvenience them. It's a way of silencing people and encouraging them to bottle up their worries and concerns.

Feeling down is part of life. It's normal to vent and complain sometimes. Someone saying 'hey, is it so bad? Why don't you look on the bright side' is not being helpful, they are minimising someone's problems. It's especially toxic when it's said by someone who has few problems of their own.

It's easy to tell someone 'cheer up, it might never happen'. It's a lot harder to actually be there for someone. I have a friend going through a hard time and I listen to him vent almost every day. It can be draining and difficult for me, but I do it, because that's what friends are for.

It is normal to vent. Sometimes. But your interpretation of Toxic Positivity (super populist t the moment) is misappropriated. Nobody is pushing the OP to be super positive. If we have healthy boundaries then life is easier. So yeah, we can hear people complain but the complaining the OP is listening to is ongoing and pathological and affects them significantly. There is a lot of thinking now about 'being there for someone' or 'talking about mental health' both laudable but in practice it is exhausting to be always on. Thats why if we are clear, state our needs and disengage when it is unhealthy it has a much better outcome.

pinkyeye

Finchie1276 wrote: »

OK, I think I need to explain more.
It's interesting you both found those to be aggressive in tone. As an Irish person whop lived abroad for quite a while I was very struck by exactly how you have both interpreted the examples I gave. I don't want this to sound strange but have either of you ever lived in Europe? Germany? Holland? Sweden? There you get feedback exactly like that. Very direct. Very clear. In Ireland it appears to elicit an emotional response and we couch it in very soft language.

So, in an actual conversation this is how I would use one of the above:

My Mother: Mary down the road is always giving out and never invites me in for a cup of coffee. I don't think she likes me at all.

Me: Hmmm, thats an interesting perspective, do you think there is a more positive way to look at that?

My Mother: What do you mean? Its clear she is going out of her way not to invite me in.

Me: I don't know if thats true - what evidence do you have that makes you think that?

My Mother: Well thats the second time it happened.

Me: Do you mean to be so negative? Because if you go looking for evidence you will usually find it and its always easier to find things that make us think the worst. Maybe next time you could invite Mary up for a coffee or make a plan to go for a walk.

Its a simple scenario but each of the examples I gave you are from CBT - challenging/ putting the judge and jury on thinking to move away from being emotionally led/ catastrophic thinking.

So I don't think they are passive aggressive. I think the issue here is twofold:

1. Your parents interpersonal relationship and bickering style gets to you. They cannot self regulate their emotions nor can they express their needs clearly. They use a 'code of behaviour'. As you were brought up with them you are 'in' on this code, whether you like it or not.

2. When you see this playing out, you too get frustrated and see that you are not able to self regulate your emotions like they are not (because your family style is not to be healthy around needs). If you look at the issue you explained - you too are trapped by not knowing how to react or fix it.

You have choices:

1. You can call them out on it/ challenge them as I have shown (call it passive aggressive if you want but given how you have described your family situation I think that would, with respect, be a bit rich)

2. You can ignore it - but only if you don't bring it home with you - there is no point in ignoring it it if it internally enrages you.

3. You can accept it by learning to self soothe ' Thats how my mam and dad are' 'I recognise thats how they interact' 'Thats their stuff' ' Isn't it great I can see how damaging that kind of communication is etc'

So, I'm not encouraging you to be passive aggressive but I definitely think in this situation you are being super passive in accepting it and then being enraged/ frustrated. So, challenge gently. It's not aggressive to ask someone if they always think so negatively - its a valid question.

I hope his clarifies my intent. If you think my questions are aggressive then maybe look at why you think that? Are you afraid to challenge, afraid of conflict?

It a very Irish thing to not rock the boat. But we can and should especially if it results in healthier behaviours.

This is the most PATRONISING crap I've ever read here on Boards. OP, please don't take this approach, you will end up with no family or friends.

lainey_d_123

pinkyeye wrote: »

This is the most PATRONISING crap I've ever read here on Boards. OP, please don't take this approach, you will end up with no family or friends.

Indeed. It's utterly insufferable. Might be tolerated in the US or Canada or somewhere but here you'd be told to cop yourself on or be silently hated.

Chances are Mary is an unfriendly old wagon and doesn't like his mam. If someone is rude to you, it's usually because they don't like you. Going and pandering to them and inviting them in for a coffee is just weird. Would you not just say 'yeah, she sounds like a wagon' and change the topic?

leggo

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

I didn't say positivity was toxic. I said 'toxic positivity' is a concept. It's often a way for people to basically bully others into not talking about anything negative, often so it doesn't inconvenience them. It's a way of silencing people and encouraging them to bottle up their worries and concerns.

Feeling down is part of life. It's normal to vent and complain sometimes. Someone saying 'hey, is it so bad? Why don't you look on the bright side' is not being helpful, they are minimising someone's problems. It's especially toxic when it's said by someone who has few problems of their own.

It's easy to tell someone 'cheer up, it might never happen'. It's a lot harder to actually be there for someone. I have a friend going through a hard time and I listen to him vent almost every day. It can be draining and difficult for me, but I do it, because that's what friends are for.

I hear what you’re saying, but also consider that you’re choosing to see that as toxic and applying motives to them that I seriously doubt are there (and in truth you can’t know for certain since you can only speak for your own motives truly). When someone is telling you to cheer up and trying to frame things as positive, do you HONESTLY think that they’re thinking “I want to minimise this person’s problems so they feel I’m superior to them” instead of something more benign like “I want this person to see things positively so they don’t feel this way anymore”? Honestly, whether it works or not (and I agree with you that it can be an ineffective and indirectly provocative way of helping someone), in your heart of hearts do you feel that they’re using their positivity to somehow attack and belittle you?

Consider also that it’s okay for someone to draw boundaries in this way. Each person is responsible for their own mental health at the end of the day, and professional assistance by people qualified and capable of handling these kind of issues is still widely available and affordable even during COVID. Effectively this can be used as a nice way of saying, “I don’t have the headspace to get stuck in the trenches with you right now because I’m barely keeping above water myself”, but still trying to give you whatever reassurance they are capable of.

It’s good to have friends that you can talk and vent to, but it’s unfair to have that as an expectation of someone as unloading negativity can impact others even if it helps you (look up concepts like ‘empathy fatigue’ if you’re interested in this stuff). And I’d say at the end of the day it’s also detrimental to yourself and your own headspace if you see it as an attack, because without knowing the people you feel do this to you, I can almost certainly say that that’s not their intention.

In this thread in particular, I’d say it’s damaging to the OP to start pushing an agenda that they should feel obligated to help people close to them that are causing this psychological drain during a challenging period. They really, really shouldn’t. If all they can give right now is a “chin up, things will get better”, that’s okay. And if the person receiving that takes that as an attack, that’s on them and their own sensitivity.

Finchie1276

In this thread in particular, I’d say it’s damaging to the OP to start pushing an agenda that they should feel obligated to help people close to them that are causing this psychological drain during a challenging period. They really, really shouldn’t. If all they can give right now is a “chin up, things will get better”, that’s okay. And if the person receiving that takes that as an attack, that’s on them and their own sensitivity.[/quote]

No, read my post, I am not pushing or obligating, I am suggesting that instead of reacting as she/he does which is not working that maybe she tries to be a bit healthier with her boundaries and maybe experimenting with a more assertive tone might reduce the frequency or even help her parents be less abrasive. It was a suggestion. No obligation.

Finchie1276

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

Indeed. It's utterly insufferable. Might be tolerated in the US or Canada or somewhere but here you'd be told to cop yourself on or be silently hated.

Chances are Mary is an unfriendly old wagon and doesn't like his mam. If someone is rude to you, it's usually because they don't like you. Going and pandering to them and inviting them in for a coffee is just weird. Would you not just say 'yeah, she sounds like a wagon' and change the topic?

That's a charitable attitude ya have there. Cop on or silently hated- both grand with me, I don't really give a toss, will give my advice if asked and I have little regard for whether people take it or leave it.

Finchie1276

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

Indeed. It's utterly insufferable. Might be tolerated in the US or Canada or somewhere but here you'd be told to cop yourself on or be silently hated.

Chances are Mary is an unfriendly old wagon and doesn't like his mam. If someone is rude to you, it's usually because they don't like you. Going and pandering to them and inviting them in for a coffee is just weird. Would you not just say 'yeah, she sounds like a wagon' and change the topic?

That's a charitable attitude ya have there. Cop on or silently hated- both grand with me, I don't really give a toss, will give my advice if asked and I have little regard for whether people take it or leave it.

Finchie1276

pinkyeye wrote: »

This is the most PATRONISING crap I've ever read here on Boards. OP, please don't take this approach, you will end up with no family or friends.

Did you ever think people come here for a variety of opinions and madly, (I know you find this hard to believe given your use of block caps n all) they might just find an opinion that is wildly different from theirs. Mad eh? Also mad is that the post is for the poster, not you. Next time try to be a little kinder, even if you don't like the sentiment. It's an easy thing to do and it makes you look like a grown up.

Hannibal_Smith

Mod note

The OP has come here seeking advice and posters are asked to reply in a way that offers this to them.

As per the forum charter, if you have no advice to offer, please refrain from posting at all.

Daisy78

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

I have to agree. Toxic positivity is a thing, and it's finally getting some air time. Venting is good for mental health in many cases. There's nothing worse than being around someone who makes you feel like you can't ever complain or say anything negative, especially in an environment that should be 'safe', like home, or in a relationship.

There is a difference between occasional venting and habitual toxic negativity. If someone is constantly giving out, seeing the worst in people, bitching, moaning, etc, then that is a problem. Everyone has a rant now and again but it doesn’t sound like that’s the issue here. I can totally understand how the op feels frustrated and down about it, it just seems to be a characteristic trait of some of the people around her and that can be very draining.

splinter65

OP here is my simple advice after many long years of being myself being insufferably enthusiastic and upbeat and optimistic in all my waking hours just because that is how I am hard wired, and being swamped, sometimes in the work place and sometimes in family situations, with negativity.
Just change the subject.
Other person: “ OMG I’m so sick of coming in here day after day and finding no parking space. It’s bad enough having to work in this kip 8 hours a day without having to park 10 miles away. And John took all the hot water this morning again for his “shower” so the water went cold on me I swear to god I don’t know why I married him he’s useless”.
Me: Ah God help ya, listen did you hear on the radio Genesis are reforming and going on the road? I love Genesis and id go to see them so I would. Who do you like or do you ever go to concerts?”
The worst can happen is they just walk off to find someone else to listen to them.
Just change the subject. It’s easy to think of things. If you can’t think then you suddenly can’t find your glasses and have to look for them.
It’s not your job to “re-educate” people, especially people who are elderly. All you can do is introduce a positive spin on things and hopefully it will rub off. Not easy I’m not saying it is but it is doable.
Main thing is don’t let it get you down.

Tokyo

Mod: @splinter65, @Finchie1276 - take the petty bickering elsewhere. Don't post in the thread again.

qwerty13

My take on it OP:

Sometimes people don’t want to be ‘fixed’, or feel like someone is trying to ‘fix’ them. They just want to be listened to, and sympathised (empathised?) with. However irrational that might be.

However, there’s a point when this tips over into feeling like you’re constantly listening to someone giving out, or just bemoaning an inordinate amount about their life.

I think there could be a happy medium: giving people space to have a bit of a rant / vent; but not letting that become a constant thing, or intrude on your own well being.

Like most things in personal relationships (and I mean relationships between family and friends too - not just romantic ones), it involves compromise. Some days they’ll just need to be listened to and feel heard. Not ‘corrected’, just heard. And other days that may be you. But when the balance goes entirely towards them telling you endless takes of feeling slighted / wronged etc, well that’s time to readdress the balance.

There’s ways of doing it though. That depends on your personality/experience, and theirs. My take would be a certain amount of listening first, then maybe a positive input. Ah bit of ‘ah now’. Followed by a bit of listening. A few very gentle suggestions. And I mean nothing too out there; you want to bring them along with you - not feel put down.

That’s just my take. To be fair, it’s worked better for me in a work environment than a personal one! And it takes a bit of effort. I do think balance though that it generally produces good results.