Restore travel (and sanity) within Ireland

Breezin

One of the remaining impositions of the lockdown is the prohibition on travel outside 5k. The return to normal movement was cited in a poll a week or two ago as one of people's top priorities. While there is a lot of talk about air travel, the prospect of being allowed to travel in our own country seems to have dropped off the radar.

In other threads in this section, people have been pointing out that they are unable to see close relatives. Others, myself, included, have less immediately pressing concerns, and simply are not happy at being confined when the act of driving a car solo or with family, or riding a motorcycle, beyond 5km poses absolutely zero Covid-19 risk.

Whatever about foreign travel, or other measures, I would like to be able to travel within Ireland outside 5k from my home. For the life of me I cannot see why that ban is being maintained, assuming social distancing precautions are observed. This is already permitted in England and Australia, for example.

In that spirit, it's nice to have a pretext to post this song of protest:

LeYouth

I think it will come soon, just have to be patient...a bit longer...

Paddygreen

Breezin wrote: »

One of the remaining impositions of the lockdown is the prohibition on travel outside 5k. The return to normal movement was cited in a poll a week or two ago as one of people's top priorities. While there is a lot of talk about air travel, the prospect of being allowed to travel in our own country seems to have dropped off the radar.

In other threads in this section, people have been pointing out that they are unable to see close relatives. Others, myself, included, have less immediately pressing concerns, and simply are not happy at being confined when the act of driving a car solo or with family, or riding a motorcycle, beyond 5km poses absolutely zero Covid-19 risk.

Whatever about foreign travel, or other measures, I would like to be able to travel within Ireland outside 5k from my home. For the life of me I cannot see why that ban is being maintained, assuming social distancing precautions are maintained. This is already permitted in England and Australia, for example.

In that spirit, it's nice to have a pretext to post this song of protest:

I said at the start of this and I will say it again.. we need secure detention centers to quarantine the non compliant until there is a vaccine. There is no room for dissent when we are at war.

Breezin

Paddygreen wrote: »

I said at the start of this and I will say it again.. we need secure detention centers to quarantine the non compliant until there is a vaccine. There is no room for dissent when we are at war.

Thanks Paddy.

SNNUS

Paddygreen wrote: »

I said at the start of this and I will say it again.. we need secure detention centers to quarantine the non compliant until there is a vaccine. There is no room for dissent when we are at war.

Oh not the Dad's Army crowd again...

manlad

Parents live 45 mins away. I've not seen them since February, July is supposedly when I can go visit them again without restrictions. Doesn't seem fair at times. I'm reminded each day about the additional numbers of people who have lost their lives so its difficult to argue with it.

Hoffmans

It shows how much unnecessary travel people were taking before lockdown that we can survive when distances are restricted,
of course theres the patriot rebels buzzing around with a copy of the constitution in their laps giving no thought to the 1500 already succumbed to the deadly virus

KindOfIrish

manlad wrote: »

Parents live 45 mins away. I've not seen them since February, July is supposedly when I can go visit them again without restrictions. Doesn't seem fair at times. I'm reminded each day about the additional numbers of people who have lost their lives so its difficult to argue with it.

Are you serious?! No government would stop me visiting parents. Whats wrong with you people?

Breezin

Hoffmans wrote: »

It shows how much unnecessary travel people were taking before lockdown that we can survive when distances are restricted

I think you are actually being serious!

Beasty

Breezin wrote: »

I think you are actually being serious!

Business travel may have dropped by 90% or more. Commuting has probably reduced by a similar amount. I reckon in the medium to long term maybe half of that reduction is "sustainable"

That's before thinking about international travel

Hopefully we'll all be guzzling less gas going forward

Jim_Hodge

manlad wrote: »

Parents live 45 mins away. I've not seen them since February, July is supposedly when I can go visit them again without restrictions. Doesn't seem fair at times. I'm reminded each day about the additional numbers of people who have lost their lives so its difficult to argue with it.

Same here but it's our grandchildren we can't get to see. It's heartbreaking but we know it's something we must do and that this will pass. Distance restrictions are integral to keeping a grip on this thing. It's not easy but as we progress we need to ensure that any rise in cases is as contained as possible. Driving a distance doesn't increase individual risk but it does risk passing the virus to a wider area and greater number of people.

ek motor

KindOfIrish wrote: »

Are you serious?! No government would stop me visiting parents. Whats wrong with you people?

He's not selfish. Madness, I know.

banie01

KindOfIrish wrote: »

you people?

What do you mean "you people?"

Plumbthedepths

manlad wrote: »

Parents live 45 mins away. I've not seen them since February, July is supposedly when I can go visit them again without restrictions. Doesn't seem fair at times. I'm reminded each day about the additional numbers of people who have lost their lives so its difficult to argue with it.

My wife's parents live an hour away. She has been struggling as she is very close to them. Last time she saw them was March. Saturday gone I told her we were going. She was concerned about the Garda, I put anti inflammatory medication in a bag. I said your 'Dad was complaining of a sore neck'. He also said he and my MIL are too afraid to leave the house. So we made an essential trip to help a family member.
No one lost their life as we travelled by car didn't stop, sat 6 ft apart in my PIL's garden drinking a coffee after handing over the medication. Stop by a Garda on my way home, asked the purpose of our trip. Told the Garda we were bringing medication to my FIL. No issue.
PTD.

ek motor

banie01 wrote: »

What do you mean "you people?"

The little people of course, those who abide by the rules.

KindOfIrish

ek motor wrote: »

The little people of course, those who abide by the rules.

Tomorrow they will tell you to jump from Cliffs of Moher and i'm afraid many will do it. 5, 20, 100 km travel restriction is idiotic and follow this rule is equally idiotic.

Jim_Hodge

KindOfIrish wrote: »

Tomorrow they will tell you to jump from Cliffs of Moher and i'm afraid many will do it. 5, 20, 100 km travel restriction is idiotic and follow this rule is equally idiotic.

This shows a complete lack of understanding of the principles involved in containing an epidemic. The range people travel and potentially transport the virus impacts on contact tracing and minimising spread.

Paddygreen

I tweeted an Gardai today with my idea.. Operation Granny Trap... place unmarked cars near known grandparents houses (picked at random) and see if anyone comes to visit them, heavy fines and names in the paper if anyone calls round and enters the dwelling. Deterrence combined with social shaming is the only way we can ensure compliance. No reply as of yet.

Plumbthedepths

Paddygreen wrote: »

No reply as of yet.

My son is a Garda serving in a large Midlands town. I showed him your comment. ( I know you're a WUM) But I won't repeat what he said about your nonsense as I would get a ban.

ChikiChiki

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

My wife's parents live an hour away. She has been struggling as she is very close to them. Last time she saw them was March. Saturday gone I told her we were going. She was concerned about the Garda, I put anti inflammatory medication in a bag. I said your 'Dad was complaining of a sore neck'. He also said he and my MIL are too afraid to leave the house. So we made an essential trip to help a family member.
No one lost their life as we travelled by car didn't stop, sat 6 ft apart in my PIL's garden drinking a coffee after handing over the medication. Stop by a Garda on my way home, asked the purpose of our trip. Told the Garda we were bringing medication to my FIL. No issue.
PTD.

If everyone did this there would be a cost in some shape or form. I'm sure you were very obedient but still.

Maybe it's better to keep such musings to yourself as not to encourage. Fwiw, I think you probably did the right thing for your wife.

But you'll still get people seeing others travel and using it as encouragement to visit mates etc when restrictions are still in place.

Paddygreen

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

My son is a Garda serving in a large Midlands town. I showed him your comment. ( I know you're a WUM) But I won't repeat what he said about your nonsense as I would get a ban.

A large midlands town? Athlone probably, as lawless as Baghdad there. He doesn’t sound too enthusiastic about the job. Tell him to watch a few Clint Eastwood classics, might inspire him.

ek motor

Paddygreen wrote: »

I tweeted an Gardai today with my idea.. Operation Granny Trap... place unmarked cars near known grandparents houses (picked at random) and see if anyone comes to visit them, heavy fines and names in the paper if anyone calls round and enters the dwelling. Deterrence combined with social shaming is the only way we can ensure compliance. No reply as of yet.

I think its workable, might help bring in some extra revenue too :pac:

nacho libre

manlad wrote: »

Parents live 45 mins away. I've not seen them since February, July is supposedly when I can go visit them again without restrictions. Doesn't seem fair at times. I'm reminded each day about the additional numbers of people who have lost their lives so its difficult to argue with it.

Are your parents elderly? if so you should go and see them, if you are stopped by the guards just tell them you are visiting elderly parents in need- this was always permitted within the restrictions anyway. If you're worried about infecting them, just chat to them outside from the recommended distance. The risk of infecting another person is low in an outside setting.

Beanybabog

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

My wife's parents live an hour away. She has been struggling as she is very close to them. Last time she saw them was March. Saturday gone I told her we were going. She was concerned about the Garda, I put anti inflammatory medication in a bag. I said your 'Dad was complaining of a sore neck'.

When I read things like this the sheer scale of what we have been facing hits home. Sneaking outside your zone to see your relatives, having an acceptable excuse in case the Gardai question you- If someone told me 6 months ago we’d be here I wouldn’t have believed it, I probably wouldn’t have even thought it possible / legal. The situation has been normalised over time, but it’s actually incredible. I can’t wait until this is (hopefully) a story from our past and my own kids think I’m telling tall tales about not being allowed go 2/5 km from your home or have anyone visit

Yester

KindOfIrish wrote: »

Tomorrow they will tell you to jump from Cliffs of Moher and i'm afraid many will do it. 5, 20, 100 km travel restriction is idiotic and follow this rule is equally idiotic.

I can't until they lift the travel restrictions.

gmisk

manlad wrote: »

Parents live 45 mins away. I've not seen them since February, July is supposedly when I can go visit them again without restrictions. Doesn't seem fair at times. I'm reminded each day about the additional numbers of people who have lost their lives so its difficult to argue with it.

My folks are in the north (I live in Dublin) I haven't seen them since Xmas they were away on hols for about 3 months and I was due to go up when this all kicked off

Jim_Hodge

wakka12 wrote: »

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-a-quarter-of-covid-19-patients-who-died-in-england-had-diabetes-11988326

25% of COVID deaths in the UK were diabetic, just 6% of Brits in the general population are diabetic

And did they travel within Ireland? Way outside their 5km.

wakka12

Jim_Hodge wrote: »

And did they travel within Ireland? Way outside their 5km.

Wrong thread :P

What Username Guidelines

ChikiChiki wrote: »

If everyone did this there would be a cost in some shape or form. I'm sure you were very obedient but still.

Maybe it's better to keep such musings to yourself as not to encourage. Fwiw, I think you probably did the right thing for your wife.

But you'll still get people seeing others travel and using it as encouragement to visit mates etc when restrictions are still in place.

While I agree to an extent, if everyone did what he did it would actually be fine. But unfortunately not everyone will do the same in terms of precautions and therein lies the problem why we need these restrictions to be so black and white.

This is why it’s difficult to exit lockdown and an almost-Swedish approach might have been better. As soon as the pressure valve is released a little, people will keep pushing. Harris said you can’t put these measures on people too long but it’s coming up on 7 weeks, and unless you’re a builder or work in a garden centre, etc, it’s 10, maybe more.

Hopefully we can do it as a nation, but how long does the patience last and what does it look like when it runs out?

kyote00

Did you try phoning them ?

manlad wrote: »

Parents live 45 mins away. I've not seen them since February, July is supposedly when I can go visit them again without restrictions. Doesn't seem fair at times. I'm reminded each day about the additional numbers of people who have lost their lives so its difficult to argue with it.

growleaves

ek motor wrote: »

The little people of course, those who abide by the rules.

Leprechauns abide by the rules?

mean gene

Europe opening up borders and us living on an island cant go more than 5km away crazy

zoe 3619

Thought the 5km applied to walking and excercise?
I have to drive more than that to get to a shop.
I think the laws were passed in a hurry and I'll certainly abide by the spirit of them,but have no problem dropping shopping to an elderly friend 20km away.

joe40

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

My wife's parents live an hour away. She has been struggling as she is very close to them. Last time she saw them was March. Saturday gone I told her we were going. She was concerned about the Garda, I put anti inflammatory medication in a bag. I said your 'Dad was complaining of a sore neck'. He also said he and my MIL are too afraid to leave the house. So we made an essential trip to help a family member.
No one lost their life as we travelled by car didn't stop, sat 6 ft apart in my PIL's garden drinking a coffee after handing over the medication. Stop by a Garda on my way home, asked the purpose of our trip. Told the Garda we were bringing medication to my FIL. No issue.
PTD.

Surely if the parents are over 70 they are cocooning so she would be entitled to deliver food and any medication they might require.
She could visit then, and still abide by the law

Plumbthedepths

joe40 wrote: »

Surely if the parents are over 70 they are cocooning so she would be entitled to deliver food and any medication they might require.
She could visit then, and still abide by the law

You would think so, but I have encountered a few Garda who have made up their own restrictions. My son is a Garda and I've had to correct him as well. He thought up till recently the over 70's were legally required to stay in the home.

VonLuck

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

My wife's parents live an hour away. She has been struggling as she is very close to them. Last time she saw them was March. Saturday gone I told her we were going. She was concerned about the Garda, I put anti inflammatory medication in a bag. I said your 'Dad was complaining of a sore neck'. He also said he and my MIL are too afraid to leave the house. So we made an essential trip to help a family member.
No one lost their life as we travelled by car didn't stop, sat 6 ft apart in my PIL's garden drinking a coffee after handing over the medication. Stop by a Garda on my way home, asked the purpose of our trip. Told the Garda we were bringing medication to my FIL. No issue.
PTD.

I can understand it's tough for people, but what if everyone had the same approach as you? You'd have every Tom, Dick and Harry going to all corners of Ireland, potentially spreading the virus to areas which were previously free of it. That's the whole idea of the travel restriction. The moment the government relax restrictions there will be a free for all and they are trying to delay that for as long as required so that they can get the testing up to scratch.

I also think it's entirely unfair on those obeying the restrictions whilst people flout the rules. A lot of people are trying their hardest and are finding it very difficult being away from family, but they are making the sacrifice, acting selflessly, because they believe they are helping the country as a whole.

boege

Living with a nurse on the frontline, I have been wholeheartedly behind the Government to date, but even I am struggling to understand this 5km limit going going to 20km at the end of June.

France has announced travel limits in Green Zones of up to 100km. They may increase this at the 2nd June. Red Zones (mainly north east) remain locked down.

I have not checked other countries but I would have thought in Ireland that a limit which prevents inter-city travel would be adequate e.g. 50-60km.

robbiezero

VonLuck wrote: »

I can understand it's tough for people, but what if everyone had the same approach as you? You'd have every Tom, Dick and Harry going to all corners of Ireland, potentially spreading the virus to areas which were previously free of it. That's the whole idea of the travel restriction. The moment the government relax restrictions there will be a free for all and they are trying to delay that for as long as required so that they can get the testing up to scratch.

I also think it's entirely unfair on those obeying the restrictions whilst people flout the rules. A lot of people are trying their hardest and are finding it very difficult being away from family, but they are making the sacrifice, acting selflessly, because they believe they are helping the country as a whole.

How would they be doing that, if it was done with proper social distancing?

VonLuck

robbiezero wrote: »

How would they be doing that, if it was done with proper social distancing?

Do you think everyone is obeying social distancing rules to the letter of the law? Even a small percentage breaking the 2m restriction could spread the virus.

KindOfIrish

KindOfIrish wrote: »

Are you serious?! No government would stop me visiting parents. Whats wrong with you people?

It’s idiots like you who will prolong the lockdown. Do your parents and fellow citizens a favour and stay away.

sideswipe

VonLuck wrote: »

I can understand it's tough for people, but what if everyone had the same approach as you? You'd have every Tom, Dick and Harry going to all corners of Ireland, potentially spreading the virus to areas which were previously free of it. That's the whole idea of the travel restriction. The moment the government relax restrictions there will be a free for all and they are trying to delay that for as long as required so that they can get the testing up to scratch.

I also think it's entirely unfair on those obeying the restrictions whilst people flout the rules. A lot of people are trying their hardest and are finding it very difficult being away from family, but they are making the sacrifice, acting selflessly, because they believe they are helping the country as a whole.

Anybody that needs/wants to visit further flung elderly parents having stayed away for months know the dangers and would not be taking decisions to visit lightly.

The same people know how to socially distance going to a shop at this stage, I don't think any of them would be willing to visit vulnerable parents and put them in danger by not taking every possible pro-cation. It's not like the country is open in terms of hotels, B&B's cafes and restaurants where people would drive off and frequent to put those areas at risk.

In fact socially responsible citizens have played a major role in flattening the curve and making sure the health system did not become overwhelmed, the reward for that should not be waiting until the 20th of July to see parents who's twilight months and now it seems possibly years are being eroded in terms of family contact. We need to learn to live with this thing as we all know by now it's not going away anytime soon.

The Tom, Dick's and Harry's of this world who would take off and flout guidelines in terms of social distancing and sanitation have been doing it all along and laughing at the rest of us for the solidarity the rest of the country has taken.

is_that_so

VonLuck wrote: »

I can understand it's tough for people, but what if everyone had the same approach as you? You'd have every Tom, Dick and Harry going to all corners of Ireland, potentially spreading the virus to areas which were previously free of it. That's the whole idea of the travel restriction. The moment the government relax restrictions there will be a free for all and they are trying to delay that for as long as required so that they can get the testing up to scratch.

I also think it's entirely unfair on those obeying the restrictions whilst people flout the rules. A lot of people are trying their hardest and are finding it very difficult being away from family, but they are making the sacrifice, acting selflessly, because they believe they are helping the country as a whole.

I really don't think you understand at all seeing as you're accusing them of virus spreading and all sorts by the end of the post. I'm aware of a number of people who have continued to visit, some outside the mandated restrictions. I trust their acknowledgement of personal responsibility. From their perspective it is the right decision and it has been of great psychological benefit to all.

Plumbthedepths

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It’s idiots like you who will prolong the lockdown. Do your parents and fellow citizens a favour and stay away.

Funny you say that....

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/delays-in-testing-raise-doubts-about-timing-of-lifting-irish-lockdown-1.4238531

robbiezero

VonLuck wrote: »

Do you think everyone is obeying social distancing rules to the letter of the law? Even a small percentage breaking the 2m restriction could spread the virus.

I would reckon that those who aren't obeying the social distancing rules are not obeying the distance rules either, so you are gaining nothing here, only punishing the people who would travel and visit safely.

Paddygreen

sideswipe wrote: »

The Tom, Dick's and Harry's of this world who would take off and flout guidelines in terms of social distancing and sanitation have been doing it all along and laughing at the rest of us for the solidarity the rest of the country has taken.

I have seen these types visiting their relations, I have a cocooner neighbor whose house I observe from my landing window who has had at least three visitors a week since she was ordered to cocoon. Needless to say I am going to shun her if she survives . I have seen people with trollies full of non essential items. People outside their permitted exercise circles. People who haven’t clapped once for the heros on the frontline of the war. The enemy is within.

robbiezero

Deleted User wrote: »

It’s idiots like you who will prolong the lockdown. Do your parents and fellow citizens a favour and stay away.

No it isn't. Calm down.

Paddygreen

VonLuck wrote: »

Do you think everyone is obeying social distancing rules to the letter of the law? Even a small percentage breaking the 2m restriction could spread the virus.

I stopped washing everything but my hands three weeks ago. I find it has made a difference in terms of people socially distancing themselves from me when I go to get essentials. Not showering has also significantly reduced my carbon footprint so it’s a win win. My cats are starting to get used to it.

ronano

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

You would think so, but I have encountered a few Garda who have made up their own restrictions. My son is a Garda and I've had to correct him as well. He thought up till recently the over 70's were legally required to stay in the home.

He should really have known this, deeply unsettling if the gardai out there don't know the recommendations and their remit. I'm not trying to get at your son, I know it's a difficult time and gardai are under immense pressure and strain.

atahuapla

KindOfIrish wrote: »

Are you serious?! No government would stop me visiting parents. Whats wrong with you people?

Wow what an attitude, we're all in this together, eh?

Paddygreen

atahuapla wrote: »

Wow what an attitude, we're all in this together, eh?

All these people who are visiting their parents should be named, shamed, then shunned.

the kelt

robbiezero wrote: »

No it isn't. Calm down.

Theyre everywhere, theyre literally everywhere, lemmings!

"oh my god you are outside your 5k, your spreading the virus, youre spreading the virus, its your fault we are locked down"

Nothing to do with the testing mess, the care home mess, the testing turnaround mess its because you strayed outside 5k and apparently the virus has built in gps that can identify and latch itself to someone outside their 5 k, its lying theyre waiting on someone to stray outside their 5k, if only they stayed within that 5k the virus couldnt get them becasue theres an invisible forcesheild thats stops them coming within 5k of you.

Oh and the virus listens to leo when so it used to be 2k but listened to leo say 5k so its now operating at 5k, thast what leo meant when he said it was in retreat