Aer Lingus Fleet/ Routes Discussion Pt 2 (ALL possible routes included)

cson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122092253#Comment_122092253

Kindly point out where I said they weren't adequately paid?

Kindly point out where I said there was an entitlement to cheap flights?

You seem to have replied with answer of what you wanted to say, regardless of the content of the post you quoted. I'd encourage you to be more thoughtful in future.

VivaLasBegas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122094242#Comment_122094242

Your post clearly implied that you think flights in the US are expensive (compared to Europe) and that was at least partly down to the staff being well paid.

I did say what I wanted to say, but it was in response to what you had implied. I'm sure I'm not the only person who took it that way judging by subsequent replies.

cson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122094321#Comment_122094321

Newsflash: differing economic and business environments exist in different jurisdictions.

VivaLasBegas

Yes but here's a newsflash for you, Virgin pilots recently got 29%, easyJet 21% and a whole host of similar increases in the last 24 months for other European airlines. Differing economic circumstances between US and EU but there have been big increases this side of the pond recently.

Locker10a

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122094553#Comment_122094553

I’d love to see the details in rostering rules and productivity for those airlines too

VivaLasBegas

Crew in all airlines work hard these days.

Noxegon

I'm not sure why a pay increase at airlines X, Y, and Z have any bearing on what airline A – located in a different country – is doing.

All salaries are local. In a past life I had a team spanning three countries, with everyone more or less at the same skill level, and the salaries on offer were different in each market.

If you don't like the pay on offer at company A, then you can apply for a job at company X, Y, or Z. If enough employees leave company A then management may decide to change the pay scales.

Just my €0.02.

sailing

Make no mistake as we are talking about EI in this forum. The pilots are not for turning in this pay dispute. EI are going to very quickly understand that the “goodwill” they have become accustomed to for free for a good number of years will not be forthcoming very soon. And when that happens expect significant disruption through lack of resources. When you having a losing hand in poker and your opponent knows you’re bluffing you do your best to minimise your loss.

EchoIndia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122094819#Comment_122094819

In industrial relations there is rarely a 100% win for any claimant when it comes to pay and conditions. If the Labour Court comes up with a set of recommendations that don't give the pilots everything that they want, then the latter are going to have consider their next move. Saying "they are not for turning" suggests to me (as a lay onlooker) that they could be marching towards the top of a hill without a clear (and realistic) idea as to what will get them to come back down again.

Tenger

"Cough"

Fleet/route thread (myself included)

"Cough"

VivaLasBegas

European pilot market is highly mobile. Free movement of people and goods so it is a common market.any flight crew also commute for work. It is already biting them, see above re reliance on "goodwill"!

knobtasticus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122094882#Comment_122094882

Without wishing to derail the thread any further, it’s important to point out, from what I’ve read in the media, EI’s pilots have been abundantly clear on what they want - a meaningful pay rise.
The pilots are earning less now than they were in 2009 and that’s not even accounting for inflation. The 10% pay cut implemented back then by the Greenfield agreement has yet to be fully restored.

Nobody gets to define what ‘realistic’ looks like but when you examine the numbers, their ~20% pay demand looks rather reasonable.

Locker10a

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122095323#Comment_122095323

I think it was discussed here already but wasn’t the point of greenfield to bring the airline costs into line with European competitors and essentially make the company competitive and viable for the market conditions. The days of blank cheques off the state are long long gone

sherology

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122094963#Comment_122094963

I agree totally... One question though... Is the Labor Court decision 'binding'? Another poster is suggesting that if they don't get what they asked for from that court, then it's strike/disruption. What's the point in the WRC/LC if they're to be ignored?

knobtasticus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122096382#Comment_122096382

Nope. Industrial Relations disputes generate ‘recommendations’ from the LC which are not binding. Cases involving breaches of employment law/employ rights are binding and are therefore also open to appeal.

The LC will likely come back this coming week and then the recommendation will be publicly available online.

lintdrummer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122091888#Comment_122091888

There's a few things I take issue with here. London being a large financial centre versus Paris is not equivalent to direct competition on the same airline routes between Ireland and the US is it? Regardless, it seems you are suggesting that Dublin is a small player in the industry, the equivalent of Paris in your analogy. Dublin is a major hub for transatlantic travel. There were 3.4m passengers who travelled to North America from Dublin in 2022. By comparison, Boston Logan handled 3.5m passengers to Europe in the same year.

Further, in the same year Aer Lingus ranked number 11 of all carriers into New York JFK by passengers and freight carried. That was ahead of Iberia, Qatar, Lufthansa, KLM and many other "big hitters" in the airline industry. Think about that for a moment. This notion that Aer Lingus crew shouldn't compare themselves to the crew of their direct competitors, simply because the competitors are based abroad, is rubbish. Aer Lingus are not small fry in the transatlantic air travel sector. Let's also not forget that the cost of living in Ireland is absolutely through the roof.

Medical consultants in Ireland aren't competing with medical consultants in London for the same work so I think that analogy also falls flat.

It's safe to say that Aer Lingus pilots are not looking for parity with their US counterparts, they are simply pointing out that even if the company agreed to the pay rise they are seeking, EI would still have a massive cost advantage compared to their competitors, they still wouldn't come close to the pay and conditions US pilots enjoy.

Lastly, pilots cannot simply move to the States and get a job. The process to convert an EASA license to FAA involves written and practical tests and it's expensive because EASA type ratings don't carry to FAA, you have to do an FAA type rating. Then there's the small matter of obtaining a resident visa. Yes, it is easier for Irish pilots to get work in other European countries or the Middle East and many do that including some who have left Aer Lingus. But with the big European carriers, fluency in the local language is a normal requirement so that precludes many potential candidates.

Marcusm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122098723#Comment_122098723

My point is simpler; if the grass is greener (ie the pay is better) elsewhere then pilots (as distinct from cabin or ground crew) are well placed to relocate (actually or fly in fly out basis) to achieve the pay if it is not available in the local market.

UK medical consultants are not competing with Irish consultants for work but the HSE is attracting many NHS consultants, increasingly those mid-career who have pension issues.

BA-style industrial relations strategies, to my mind, will predominate at IAG. These can be more scorched earth basis than Aer Lingus is perhaps used to.

California Dreamer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122094963#Comment_122094963

I hear EI are going to Las Vegas on their new A350s……………😉

ULEZ23

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122102278#Comment_122102278

just because you included a smiley doesn’t make it funny. Your comment is very predicable and very boring at this stage.

California Dreamer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122102284#Comment_122102284

See the title of the thread? FLEET/ROUTES discussion, not the endless going around in circles about pilot pay. Now that is boring at this stage.

LimaRomeo990

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122102308#Comment_122102308

+ 1 agree

kevinandrew

Speaking of the fleet…

Is EI-EIK is still in Bordeaux? It must have been some job, we knew the aircraft were in a bit of a state but I’m sure it would have been expected back by now.

Hopefully EI-EIL isn’t as difficult, or the summer schedule will have been and gone!

Not much movement from EI-NSE either, was spotted in full colours in mid-April and is supposedly due later this month but hasn’t even had an engine run yet I don’t think.

Locker10a

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122103625#Comment_122103625

EIK is ready to go, just waiting on paperwork sign over apparently

moonshy2022

popcorn at the ready for Friday

sailing

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122106382#Comment_122106382

Viva

Qaanaaq

According to this post on Skyscrapercity. The EI XLR's may be transferred to TAP Air Portugal ? No other source given though.

https://www.skyscrapercity.com/threads/dublin-airport.706304/page-83?nested_view=1

PeasantHater

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122106382#Comment_122106382

Pay decision to be made Friday?

Qprmeath

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122106870#Comment_122106870

Much more exciting than that

Idbatterim

I was on A350 the other day, zero chance the mickey mouse operation that aer lingus run, would be able to utilise an a350… they call dublin a "hub" the transfer figures as a percent of PAX are miniscule…

PeasantHater

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122107765#Comment_122107765

Any chance of a link or source? The anticipation is killing me haha!