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Pistol for use on authorised range only.

  • 29-04-2020 1:21am
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 698 ✭✭✭ Uinseann_16


    Hi lads a bit off topic ive been trawling through the firearms acts
    Im looking for a specific bit i cant find it, a pistol can only be used on a authorised range ?


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Comments

  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 2,759 Mod ✭✭✭✭ cookimonster


    Hi lads a bit off topic ive been trawling through the firearms acts
    Im looking for a specific bit i cant find it, a pistol can only be used on a authorised range ?

    Have a read if the Commissioners Guidelines. I know this is not the 'Legislation or Act' but it gives reference to court cases and therefore case law.

    https://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.garda.ie/en/about-us/online-services/firearms-licensing/commissioner-s-guidelines-2018.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjY2Yf1pI3pAhWqShUIHS0VCZAQFjAAegQIBRAC&usg=AOvVaw3PQDpG5hYc-seGtrmDH-vg

    CHAPTER 3: CONDITIONS THAT MAY BE CONSIDERED
    RELEVANT WHEN GRANTING A FIREARM CERTIFICATE
    AND CASE LAW
    Section 4(2)(g) of the Firearms Act 1925 as substituted by section 32 of the Criminal Justice Act, 2006 provides that when a firearms certificate is granted it may be subject to a condition or conditions. Furthermore in the case of Joseph
    Magee v Patrick Murray and Dennis Roche, a judgment delivered by Birmingham J. in the High Court on 24th November 2008, confirmed that the statutory scheme allows a superintendent to impose conditions when granting a
    firearms certificate under the Firearms Acts.


    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2006/act/26/section/32/enacted/en/html

    If interpreted right then the issuing authority can indicates that the granting of a particular certificate is partly based on the requirement that the firearm must only be used on a authorized range.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,534 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Cass


    If memory serves there is no specific line of legislation that says you can only use it on an authorised range.

    What does happen is the various parts of the various Acts say different things which when taken together all but prohibit the use of a pistol outside a range. For example you must be a member of an authorised range to apply for a pistol license. That only states you must be a member not that it can only be used ona range, but then another piece of the Wildlife Act says you cannot hunt wild game with certain items such as crossbows, spears, slingshots, and restricted firearms.

    There is a vagueness and i don't, off the top of my head, recall a specific line about unrestricted pistols being used for vermin but in order to do that legally you would need to tick the hunting box on your FCA1 and i doubt any Super would sign off on someone applying for a pistol for both target AND hunting.

    Of course if they did there is nothing to stop you using the pistol in that manner but it requires you to apply for it for hunting, as well as target shooting, and the Super to either "miss" the ticked hunting box or allow it to go through for that to happen.

    Forum Charter - Useful Information - RFDs - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads


    If you see a problem post use the report post function, "FLAG" & let a Moderator deal with it.


    Your Shooting Forum Moderators - Cass, Cookimonster, Vegeta, Sparks, It wasn't me!



  • Registered Users Posts: 47 TheEngineer1


    I know of a lot of hunters carry pistols for humane dispatch of wounded quarry species at close range on the continent and in the states. I wonder if anyone applied for a cf pistol for this reason before the cf pistol ban came in?


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,332 ✭✭✭✭ Grizzly 45


    Yeah...I advocated for that here many years ago,and was ridicilued both here and with the deer societies.Went down like a concrete balloon.
    Yet eeven the Brit professional deer stalkers have them nowadays,albeit castrated down to two shots.But better than some 12 in yoke with a coat hanger stuck in the butt,that they call a "handgun" over there.

    Confucius say."He who says one man cannot change World. Never has eaten bat soup in Wuhan!"



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,280 ✭✭✭ tudderone


    Grizzly 45 wrote: »
    Yeah...I advocated for that here many years ago,and was ridicilued both here and with the deer societies.Went down like a concrete balloon.
    Yet eeven the Brit professional deer stalkers have them nowadays,albeit castrated down to two shots.But better than some 12 in yoke with a coat hanger stuck in the butt,that they call a "handgun" over there.

    A couple of bucko's fcuked it up for themselves over there, posting pictures online of semi-auto 9mm's they had, which had been restricted to 2 shot, with new smuggled in magazines giving 15 + shots. Of course they were caught and since then i think its only single or two shot revolvers allowed for humane dispatch.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 47 TheEngineer1


    Grizzly 45 wrote: »
    Yeah...I advocated for that here many years ago,and was ridicilued both here and with the deer societies.Went down like a concrete balloon.
    Yet eeven the Brit professional deer stalkers have them nowadays,albeit castrated down to two shots.But better than some 12 in yoke with a coat hanger stuck in the butt,that they call a "handgun" over there.

    That's a shame, I'm new to deer hunting and I've been fortunate enough not to have yet put one down at close range, although I'm sure that time will come. The thought of putting a full power rifle shot through its head at close range seems excessive.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,738 ✭✭✭ LIFFY FISHING


    That's a shame, I'm new to deer hunting and I've been fortunate enough not to have yet put one down at close range, although I'm sure that time will come. The thought of putting a full power rifle shot through its head at close range seems excessive.

    You can humanley dispatch a deer with a knife, so you dont need to worry about applying for a pistol licence, buying ammo, licences for same, storing requiremenrs and then the issue of carrying a pistol while out stalking, it is illeal to carry or conceal any short firearm on your person, so there wont be a chance of pistols allowed.
    Btw a humane dispatch pistol as defined is " a captive bolt or single shot revolver" , and they can only be issued to a vet or slaughter man ( person), and have strict protocols.


  • Registered Users Posts: 47 TheEngineer1


    You can humanley dispatch a deer with a knife, so you dont need to worry about applying for a pistol licence, buying ammo, licences for same, storing requiremenrs and then the issue of carrying a pistol while out stalking, it is illeal to carry or conceal any short firearm on your person, so there wont be a chance of pistols allowed.
    Btw a humane dispatch pistol as defined is " a captive bolt or single shot revolver" , and they can only be issued to a vet or slaughter man ( person), and have strict protocols.

    Would it not be dangerous getting in close to a wounded stag with a knife?


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 2,759 Mod ✭✭✭✭ cookimonster


    Would it not be dangerous getting in close to a wounded stag with a knife?



    512038.jpg

    A: neck vertebrae;
    B: trachea;
    C: oesophagus;

    Arrow above skull represents the line of shot at right angles to forehead, down through the brain stem.

    Use of Knife. Humane Slaughter.
    In the field situation, the most practical method of bleeding is to make a deep, transverse cut across the animal’s throat at the angle of the jaw (see dotted line). Cut deeply, severing the blood vessels, trachea and oesophagus, until the blade of the knife touches the spine. There should be two powerful jets of blood from the carotid arteries and a flow from the jugular veins. The heart may continue to pump until the carcass is ex-sanguinated.
    To carry out this task effectively, the operator needs a sharp knife with a blade at least 120mm (five inches) long. copyright: Humane Slaughter Association

    From my own method I would recommend inserting a knife (Mora Companion sized and shape) in under the jaw line in a stabbing motion and drawing the knife around to the opposite side. Once the neck is open and you see the pumping blood you are good. If not change the direction of the cutting edge and draw the knife across the open wound insuring you have cut from ear to ear and down to the spine.
    I emphasise this method because Hollywood has a lot to answer for. The trachea lays out front with the arteries either side and to the rear, if the hunter is timid, week or the knife poor then the effort of cutting through fur, skin and trachea before reaching the arteries can cause distress and potential harm to the hunter if the animal begins to flail. After the fact it is still good practice to check eye response and even heart beat.
    For the purpose of the post I've included a cropped image of a shot deer that was dead to the shot. As my way of field gralloch I always cut the throat as seen in the picture. The same wound would apply if I was to dispatch the animal with a knife. You should be able to see the extent of how deep anď wide the cut is.

    512043.jpg


    To dispatch with a rifle at close range be situationaly aware of your surroundings. Be aware of the probability of ricochet etc. If the animal is struggling to get up it is difficult to get a steady target on thier head and even a clear sight picture when using a high powered scope. If you go in for the coup de grace if possible wind the scope down.
    Either way approach the animal from the rear to lesson the degree of distress. I find a shot to the rear of the head at the base of the skull at the Axis joint will not only dispatch the animal but more than likely preserve the upper skull.

    If shooting positively into the vitals (heart and lungs) the animal will die out and it is best to stand off. Obviously if crippled then an appropriate follow up shot is the best option. This could be a well placed neck or head shot or simply a good chest shot.

    The German method, which I can't find the name of, uses a long thin bladed knife inserted around the Atlas joint which severs the spinal cord and dispatches the animal quickly. This requires practice and a suitable knife. Gizzley45 may have more detail on this.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,332 ✭✭✭✭ Grizzly 45


    You can humanley dispatch a deer with a knife,

    It's also incredibly dangerous,if you have never been trained to do it properly.
    An injured stag,even a little roe buck is a formidable creature to go up against.i speak from experiance as our professinal hunter got a roe buck tine thru his left hand while holding onto a buck he thought he had dispatched properly.

    Forget any of this Sykes Fairbairn knife fighting throat cutting busisness,an injured animal is NOT going to let you come anywhere near its throat,and depending on the injury you would be going up against their full armament ,their antlers. Your target is behind their head namely between the skull and first vertebrae of the spine,as this severs the spinal cord and brainstem,and shuts down everything going to and from the brain and heart.

    Why it's not a good idea to deal with throat cutting,is simply even bleeding out the animal can still charge or buck in it's death throes and stab you with its antlers. Up close& personal a deer has the advantage on you every time in strength,armament,and limbs.Anyone who has even been kicked by a deer calf will know how strong they can be,and they will be pumped on adrenaline too from the injury

    It's also proably illegal now under EU animal protection laws to use throat cutting as a humane dispatch method,and even nebelous about the spinal "nicking".Point you might want to keep in mind should you ever have to deal with a injured deer in a public,which you or anyone else can do,and as a trained hunter,you really have a moral obligation to do to IMO.What will look better?A pool of blood with Bambi breathing it's last with a throat cut,or a swift knife stab in the back of theneck in our hypothetical situation?

    You are going to have to access the situation on a case by case basis,how badly injured is the animal,can it still stand and move?In that case you would be better off stepping back and putting another round into the boiler house if you can do it safely with a rifle of course. Is it paralysed from a spinal shot,and still able to move on its forelegs?Again ultra caution required.

    All in all,it is NOT adviseable to engage in knife play with wild animals that are injured and standing or mobile.You will come out badly from it.

    Different story ,if the animal is down and immobile but still alive,which you of course tested for by the blink test on the eye..Right? Then you can do the throat cutting or heart stab.

    Confucius say."He who says one man cannot change World. Never has eaten bat soup in Wuhan!"



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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,332 ✭✭✭✭ Grizzly 45


    .


    The German method, which I can't find the name of, uses a long thin bladed knife inserted around the Atlas joint which severs the spinal cord and dispatches the animal quickly. This requires practice and a suitable knife. Gizzley45 may have more detail on this.

    Called "Abnicken" in German hunting terminology[Trans" to cut off"] Its what the German "Nicker" knives are used for. They are really nothing special,the blade design is isoceles like a kitchen knife that has been used domestically for centuries.So a std bowie style blade wil do it too.You can even do it with a Swiss Army folding hunting knife blade,thats big enough.

    See above post for the pros and cons.

    Confucius say."He who says one man cannot change World. Never has eaten bat soup in Wuhan!"



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,332 ✭✭✭✭ Grizzly 45


    Btw a humane dispatch pistol as defined is " a captive bolt or single shot revolver" , and they can only be issued to a vet or slaughter man ( person), and have strict protocols.

    Have a read of the AGS guidelines on that again;)...Those are examples,and bad ones too."A single shot revolver":P It's another mess of the firearms laws of bad definitions and legislation,that would even make HILTI nail guns illegal or restricted firearms.

    Confucius say."He who says one man cannot change World. Never has eaten bat soup in Wuhan!"



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,332 ✭✭✭✭ Grizzly 45


    tudderone wrote: »
    A couple of bucko's fcuked it up for themselves over there, posting pictures online of semi-auto 9mm's they had, which had been restricted to 2 shot, with new smuggled in magazines giving 15 + shots. Of course they were caught and since then i think its only single or two shot revolvers allowed for humane dispatch.

    What is it with social media that morons always decide to post their illegal activities on it?
    Tac posted about this some months ago about some vet deciding to go try out his humane dispatch pistol at some range in the UK too.Contravening his entire conditions of possesion and usage.You can still get pistols over there but the mags are blocked to two shots.It is still pretty open if you have a professional need for one,it can be got. IE professional deer stalker,kennall master,vet and some others.

    Confucius say."He who says one man cannot change World. Never has eaten bat soup in Wuhan!"



  • Registered Users Posts: 382 ✭✭ hiddenmongoose


    Cass wrote: »
    but then another piece of the Wildlife Act says you cannot hunt wild game with certain items such as crossbows, spears, slingshots, and restricted firearms.

    .


    Can you show me where it states I cannot hunt wild game with a restricted firearm.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 2,759 Mod ✭✭✭✭ cookimonster


    Can you show me where it states I cannot hunt wild game with a restricted firearm.

    Wild Life Act
    Restriction on use of certain firearms etc.

    Section 33.—(1) It shall be an offence for a person to kill or injure—

    (a) with a repeating or automatic shotgun (other than a repeating or automatic shotgun which is adapted or modified so as to render it incapable of carrying more than three shotgun cartridges), with an airgun, air-rifle, gas-rifle, pistol or revolver, or with any firearm fitted with a silencer device, any wild bird,


    (4) Subject to the foregoing subsections of this section, the Minister may make regulations specifying the type and calibre of firearms and ammunition which may be used to hunt wild birds and wild mammals and providing that firearms and ammunition of any other type and calibre shall not be used to hunt such birds or mammals.
    Certain use of traps, snares etc. prohibited.

    Section 34.—(1) Notwithstanding anything contained in this Act apart from this section but subject to section 42, a person shall not—

    (a) hunt any wild bird or wild mammal by means of a trap, snare, net, line, hook, arrow, dart, spear or similar device, instrument or missile, or birdlime or any substance of a like nature, or any poisonous, poisoned or stupefying bait, or


    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1976/act/39/section/34/enacted/en/html


    I would say if you applied for a restricted firearm licence for hunting and were granted it then you are good to go. But from looking at the wording I'd say that pistols would be blanked even for small game. While any rifle calibre over .30 cal as long as it meets the required technicalities related to deer hunting licences should have no issues.
    I've met lads who hunt deer with 338 Lapua here, now wheather everything is above board I don't know. I do know of one individual who owns a dangerous game calibre who is or was not aloud to hunt with it here. If that is still the case I can't tell you.


  • Registered Users Posts: 698 ✭✭✭ Uinseann_16



    My understanding is that crows etc under derogation are able to be shot with air rifles
    And for mammals well most of us use moderators so it must be just for birds
    Thanks for that cookimonster its the bit i remember reading years ago i just couldn't find it again!:D


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,534 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Cass


    Can you show me where it states I cannot hunt wild game with a restricted firearm.

    Section 33(1)(a) of the principle act as amended by section 41 of the 2000 act deals with restricted shotgun hunting:
    33.—(1) It shall be an offence for a person to kill or injure—

    (a) with a repeating or automatic shotgun (other than a repeating or automatic shotgun which is adapted or modified so as to render it incapable of carrying more than three shotgun cartridges), with an airgun, air-rifle, gas-rifle, pistol or revolver, or with any firearm fitted with a silencer device, any wild bird,

    For Crossbows, which are restricted firearms under law the same section 33 above prohibits their use by banning the use of darts, arrows, spears or similar devices to hunt which is extended to wild animals too under section 42 of the 2000 act which amends the principle act:
    (a) hunt any wild bird, wild mammal or protected wild animal by means of a trap, snare, net, line, hook, arrow, dart, spear or similar device however propelled, instrument or missile

    Restricted centre fire rifles are the exception i believe, to an extent. I'm not aware of any ban or prohibition on using a semi auto or restricted rifle caliber for wild animals but they cannot be used on birds or hares for the same reason an unrestricted rifle cannot be used. So basically only good for deer or foxes, but good luck trying to get a 500 nitro express for foxes. :D

    As for the rest such as a restricted pistol i'll refer you to my post(s) above:
    Cass wrote:
    If memory serves there is no specific line of legislation that says you can only use it on an authorised range.

    What does happen is the various parts of the various Acts say different things which when taken together all but prohibit the use of a pistol outside a range.
    Cass wrote:
    There is a vagueness and i don't, off the top of my head, recall a specific line about unrestricted pistols being used for vermin but in order to do that legally you would need to tick the hunting box on your FCA1 and i doubt any Super would sign off on someone applying for a pistol for both target AND hunting.
    And of course my comment about it being legal if "all the stars align":
    Cass wrote:
    Of course if they did there is nothing to stop you using the pistol in that manner but it requires you to apply for it for hunting, as well as target shooting, and the Super to either "miss" the ticked hunting box or allow it to go through for that to happen.


    So in short you should be fine for some shooting with a restricted rifle, but for everything else you either cannot via legislation or simply won't be issued the license for hunting in the first place.

    At least that is my understanding.

    Forum Charter - Useful Information - RFDs - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads


    If you see a problem post use the report post function, "FLAG" & let a Moderator deal with it.


    Your Shooting Forum Moderators - Cass, Cookimonster, Vegeta, Sparks, It wasn't me!



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 2,759 Mod ✭✭✭✭ cookimonster


    My understanding is that crows etc under derogation are able to be shot with air rifles
    And for mammals well most of us use moderators so it must be just for birds
    Thanks for that cookimonster its the bit i remember reading years ago i just couldn't find it again!:D

    Not an English lesson, so not offence but for clarification and good old Google-Derogation by definition -'an exemption from or relaxation of a rule or law. "countries assuming a derogation from EC law"

    As worded in the derogation in column 4.

    512652.jpg

    But interestingly doesn't mention the use of Moderators!


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,534 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Cass


    Lads, the firearm act(s) are like the Bible. You don't want to read them too carefully for fear you're doing wrong, and one part will contradict the other so use best common sense.

    Forum Charter - Useful Information - RFDs - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads


    If you see a problem post use the report post function, "FLAG" & let a Moderator deal with it.


    Your Shooting Forum Moderators - Cass, Cookimonster, Vegeta, Sparks, It wasn't me!



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,280 ✭✭✭ tudderone


    Cass wrote: »
    Lads, the firearm act(s) are like the Bible. You don't want to read them too carefully for fear you're doing wrong, and one part will contradict the other so use best common sense.

    Ah here, this is Ireland ya know.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 698 ✭✭✭ Uinseann_16


    The bibles a bit easier to get the jist of though :pac:


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,280 ✭✭✭ tudderone


    Grizzly 45 wrote: »
    What is it with social media that morons always decide to post their illegal activities on it?
    Tac posted about this some months ago about some vet deciding to go try out his humane dispatch pistol at some range in the UK too.Contravening his entire conditions of possesion and usage.You can still get pistols over there but the mags are blocked to two shots.It is still pretty open if you have a professional need for one,it can be got. IE professional deer stalker,kennall master,vet and some others.

    Blue bloody murder in the apartments my sister lives in the other day. The girl who lives downstairs decided to check her fellas phone while he was in the shower. She comes across a video of him cavorting starkers with the village bicycle the previous week. A small nuclear explosion happened and 5 squad cars, including 2 aru's turned up, she was going to bobbett him when he came out of the bathroom :eek:.

    I knew a lad in the UK who is a gamekeeper. He gets called out to deer hit by cars and things like that, by the police. Its a poisoned chalice, he gets to keep in with the local force, but you can be called out in the dead of night. He had a .38 revolver for it, but gave it up, and for humane dispatch he uses a .410 shotgun with the barrels cut back to 24". Reckons its far better.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,280 ✭✭✭ tudderone


    The bibles a bit easier to get the jist of though :pac:

    Its a bit like Lord of the rings, fellas with big beards and swords doing all sorts of unbelievable things.


  • Registered Users Posts: 382 ✭✭ hiddenmongoose


    Wild Life Act





    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1976/act/39/section/34/enacted/en/html


    I would say if you applied for a restricted firearm licence for hunting and were granted it then you are good to go. But from looking at the wording I'd say that pistols would be blanked even for small game. While any rifle calibre over .30 cal as long as it meets the required technicalities related to deer hunting licences should have no issues.
    I've met lads who hunt deer with 338 Lapua here, now wheather everything is above board I don't know. I do know of one individual who owns a dangerous game calibre who is or was not aloud to hunt with it here. If that is still the case I can't tell you.
    Cass wrote: »
    Section 33(1)(a) of the principle act as amended by section 41 of the 2000 act deals with restricted shotgun hunting:



    For Crossbows, which are restricted firearms under law the same section 33 above prohibits their use by banning the use of darts, arrows, spears or similar devices to hunt which is extended to wild animals too under section 42 of the 2000 act which amends the principle act:


    Restricted centre fire rifles are the exception i believe, to an extent. I'm not aware of any ban or prohibition on using a semi auto or restricted rifle caliber for wild animals but they cannot be used on birds or hares for the same reason an unrestricted rifle cannot be used. So basically only good for deer or foxes, but good luck trying to get a 500 nitro express for foxes. :D

    As for the rest such as a restricted pistol i'll refer you to my post(s) above:


    And of course my comment about it being legal if "all the stars align":



    So in short you should be fine for some shooting with a restricted rifle, but for everything else you either cannot via legislation or simply won't be issued the license for hunting in the first place.

    At least that is my understanding.


    My Point being that certain named firearms or crosbows are not allowed for hunting of game but nowhere is it stated that it is illegal or an offence to use a restricted firearm to hunt, so unless it is one of the specified restricted firearms then you can indeed hunt with your restricted firearm. To simply state that you cannot hunt with a restricted firearm is incorrect.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,534 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Cass


    To simply state that you cannot hunt with a restricted firearm is incorrect
    Was the use of "restricted firearms" as a broad general term incorporating all restricted firearms incorrect, absolutely. However it was a case of a simply omission of an additional word which would have clarified the point, had i known it was so badly needed i would have done so..

    However with only one type of restricted firearm not being mentioned as being a problem you cannot cite the exception and call it the rule.
    My Point being that certain named firearms or crosbows are not allowed for hunting of game but nowhere is it stated that it is illegal or an offence to use a restricted firearm to hunt,
    This contradicts itself.

    You cannot use Crossbows to hunt, you cannot hunt birds with a restricted shotgun, you cannot use pistols to hunt (except in the exceptional circumstances i mentioned above), you cannot even hunt certain species with a restricted rifle unless it meets other criteria set out in various SIs such as S.I. No. 239/1977. Contrary to your post about it not being illegal or an offense, it is.

    So when a lot or most restricted firearms are prohibited in some form, or an outright offense to use, it's a fair comment (without going into the detailed listing as has been done) to say they are not for general use. I did not mean to imply all restricted firearms could not be used, however i did not want to bore the OP or anyone else for that matter with a list of various acts, SIs, etc. of why as most people, myself included, can simply get glazed eyes and skip past it.

    It seems more and more that people are being pedantic about certain things. Had i put in just one other word in my reply this wouldn't be an issue:
    Cass wrote:
    If memory serves there is no specific line of legislation that says you can only use it on an authorised range.

    What does happen is the various parts of the various Acts say different things which when taken together all but prohibit the use of a pistol outside a range. For example you must be a member of an authorised range to apply for a pistol license. That only states you must be a member not that it can only be used ona range, but then another piece of the Wildlife Act says you cannot hunt wild game with certain items such as crossbows, spears, slingshots, and other restricted firearms.

    It's always good to get the right and best information and for my part in not completely, as i had to do in the last few post, explain every single point i apologise. However to take a single exception and use it as the rule is not really an argument against what i'm saying.

    Forum Charter - Useful Information - RFDs - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads


    If you see a problem post use the report post function, "FLAG" & let a Moderator deal with it.


    Your Shooting Forum Moderators - Cass, Cookimonster, Vegeta, Sparks, It wasn't me!



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 2,759 Mod ✭✭✭✭ cookimonster


    'To simply state that you cannot hunt with a restricted firearm is incorrect'

    Fair point and it is a very general statement.

    It is often asked here about 'good reason' especially when an individual has been granted thier FAC based solely on range membership but now wants to hunt. The general consensus is that it is a change of circumstances and therefore needs notification.

    If you consider something like this :
    Centrefire Gallery Rifle (GRCF) is for lever action rifles chambered in pistol calibres.  Any calibre between .354 and .455 is permitted.  The most common calibres used are .38 & .44 and the most common rifles used are the Marlin 1894 and Rossi 92.

    These type of rifles are restricted by their calibre but are suitable for deer hunting, if you applied for them solely as deer hunting firearms, would you get approval. Would you get approval for dual purpose such as target and hunting or are they restricted to target use only.


    The Commissioners Guidelines deals with -
    ASSESSING GOOD REASON

    This section sets out the issues that a superintendent or chief superintendent may wish to consider in assessing "Good Reason" in individual cases. Some of the more common
    good reasons that the issuing person may consider ‘good’ for the possession of particular firearms and ammunition are also highlighted.
    This guidance is simply illustrative, and cases may be encountered which are not covered here, but which may nonetheless form the basis of a "Good Reason".
    Good Reason for requiring a firearm in respect of which the
    certificate relates.
    The case of William Goodison v Superintendent D. J. Sheahan (High Court, 2nd May
    2008) is instructive. Peart J ruled that in relation to “Good Reason” a superintendent is
    entitled to have regard to the particular firearm and the use to which it is intended.
    The effect of this judgment means that while the firearm in question can form the basis of considering the application, it is not the sole criteria to be considered, nor can it be the
    sole reason for refusing the application. The use to which the firearm is to be put is a significant element in deciding whether the applicant has ‘Good Reason’

    So there is case law (and contrary case law) to support the authorities if they should wish to excempt certain firearms or calibres applications for specific uses.

    But again, if someone has a "restricted' firearm licenced to hunt that does not fall foul of the current Wild Life Act then so be it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 382 ✭✭ hiddenmongoose


    Cass wrote: »

    It seems more and more that people are being pedantic about certain things. Had i put in just one other word in my reply this wouldn't be an issue:


    .
    No need to get your knickers in a twist about it, but you are a MOD on the shooting forum so unfortunately people will take what you say as gospel as you will be deemed to be correct when you state something. I have heard things posted here repeated, and the post about not being able to hunt with restricted firearms is one that has been said to me before, and is false.

    Fair point and it is a very general statement.


    But again, if someone has a "restricted' firearm licenced to hunt that does not fall foul of the current Wild Life Act then so be it.
    I am in that boat and is why this interested me.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,332 ✭✭✭✭ Grizzly 45


    tudderone wrote: »
    Its a bit like Lord of the rings, fellas with big beards and swords doing all sorts of unbelievable things.

    Too much smiteing and begetting going on there for my liking.

    Confucius say."He who says one man cannot change World. Never has eaten bat soup in Wuhan!"



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,332 ✭✭✭✭ Grizzly 45


    My Point being that certain named firearms or crosbows are not allowed for hunting of game but nowhere is it stated that it is illegal or an offence to use a restricted firearm to hunt, so unless it is one of the specified restricted firearms then you can indeed hunt with your restricted firearm. To simply state that you cannot hunt with a restricted firearm is incorrect.

    100% correct.There is nothing stopping you using a SA CF rifle with a 100 drum[if you can hump that weight about and get one legally anymore under EU law] to go deer hunting here.The 1976 Wildlife act never forsaw such an event happening.
    These type of rifles are restricted by their calibre but are suitable for deer hunting, if you applied for them solely as deer hunting firearms, would you get approval. Would you get approval for dual purpose such as target and hunting or are they restricted to target use only

    Short answer YES! I am a case in point.I dual applied for my AR10 from the word go for both target and hunting,and have been using such ever since. We can speculate and estimate here,but the thing is,it is on an individual case by case what a CS decides,and if you want to fight it or not. But as for the legislation itself.There s NO mention that RIFLED restricted CF firearms of any kind one they meet the velocity and bullet weight cannot be used to hunt game here.

    Confucius say."He who says one man cannot change World. Never has eaten bat soup in Wuhan!"



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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,332 ✭✭✭✭ Grizzly 45


    tudderone wrote: »
    I knew a lad in the UK who is a gamekeeper. He gets called out to deer hit by cars and things like that, by the police. Its a poisoned chalice, he gets to keep in with the local force, but you can be called out in the dead of night. He had a .38 revolver for it, but gave it up, and for humane dispatch he uses a .410 shotgun with the barrels cut back to 24". Reckons its far better.

    Apart from that awkward long barrel,thats pushing out a slug with about.357 magnum capability at the muzzle.

    Confucius say."He who says one man cannot change World. Never has eaten bat soup in Wuhan!"



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