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Enterprise: What idiots were running the show?

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    #62
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Rawr wrote: »
    I'm experiencing the same.
    Wierdly enough, back in the day I dropped the show in Season 3 and sort of came back when Season 4 aired.

    On Rewatching, Season 3 feels like the best of the show. At times it even felt like what Voyager *should* have been, especially near the end when the ship spent most of the time in bits.

    Another thing that surprised me was how I started to feel about the NX01 when she was being ripped apart by the Xindi. I never really cared about the ship before, but then seeing it nearly die and slowly crawl back to life kind of made me actually like the ship.

    But sure enough, I was having fun with my binge watch through Season 3 until we hit the beginning of Season 4 and....space Nazis...and then I just started to tune out. I've now skipped ahead to the mirror episodes, because they were a lot of fun :P

    One thing I think I didn't really give the show enough credit for was the clear amount of effort that went into making this show feel pre-TOS. They screwed up the continuity often, but the designs and tech really fit in with the future TOS world. Also, now while I'm watching old USS Defiant done up in an authentic TOS style, they still managed to make that cheesy 60's interior somehow seem more advanced than the NX01. That was well done I feel.

    I can't help but wonder what happened in Season 4. Season 3 had a clear plot arc...but maybe they just couldn't manage it again. If they had tried better building up the the Earth Romulan War, it might have still held attention. Alas...was not meant to be I guess...




    The mini arcs were a trade off between the complaints of S3 and trying to progress a story arc.


    The Vulcan mini arc is very good, as is the Romulan telepresence ship driving the formation of alliances.


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    #63
    Evade
    Registered Users Posts: 6,726 ✭✭✭Evade


    Another possible reason for the gap is if they went straight into the Romulan War as a season four's arc you go from alien race threatening to wipe out Earth to a different alien race threatening to wipe out Earth, it's a bit samey.

    I wouldn't be surprised if the start of the proposed season five would have had a slight timeskip so Starfleet could build up an actual fleet of ships.


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    #64
    Stark
    Registered Users Posts: 20,895 ✭✭✭✭Stark


    Starting to really enjoy it coming towards the end of Season 3. There were a few very mediocre episodes at the start and "Doctor's orders" was an almost line for line rip-off of the episode "One" from Voyager but as a whole the show is becoming much more solid. Good character development for Archer, T'Pol, Trip and Reed (Reed's an asshole but any personality is better than none). Lots of very uncomfortable decisions being forced upon Archer which makes for some uncomfortable challenging viewing. You could see him making similar decisions to Captain Ransom from the Equinox if the situation was to drag on for a few years. Mayweather on the other hand seems to have regressed character wise, guy barely had 5 lines so far this season. He's starting to remind me a bit of the first episode of the 2005 Doctor Who revival where Rose's boyfriend Mickey gets turned into a plastic version of himself.

    I kind of wish they had dropped the Temporal Cold War stuff. The main plot is strong enough to stand up on its own and having Daniels popping in and out on occasion just makes the whole thing more confusing to follow without really adding to the story. Especially as it's been going on since the start of Season 1 where I lost interest.


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    #65
    Rawr
    Registered Users Posts: 3,756 ✭✭✭Rawr


    Stark wrote: »
    I kind of wish they had dropped the Temporal Cold War stuff. The main plot is strong enough to stand up on its own and having Daniels popping in and out on occasion just makes the whole thing more confusing to follow without really adding to the story. Especially as it's been going on since the start of Season 1 where I lost interest.

    I think they must have sensed that by the time they made Season 4. The intro is essentially an end to that thread, although I wish they had ended it earlier. The whole Xindi threat didn't need to be part of the Temporal Cold War.


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    #66
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Rawr wrote: »
    I think they must have sensed that by the time they made Season 4. The intro is essentially an end to that thread, although I wish they had ended it earlier. The whole Xindi threat didn't need to be part of the Temporal Cold War.




    The Xindi threat stoked by Romulan disinformation would have been on message


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    #67
    Samuel T. Cogley
    Registered Users Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    IMHO "In a Mirror Darkly" is excellent, even the score is top drawer. I may have mentioned this before :pac:


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    #68
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Stark wrote: »
    Starting to really enjoy it coming towards the end of Season 3. There were a few very mediocre episodes at the start and "Doctor's orders" was an almost line for line rip-off of the episode "One" from Voyager but as a whole the show is becoming much more solid. Good character development for Archer, T'Pol, Trip and Reed (Reed's an asshole but any personality is better than none). Lots of very uncomfortable decisions being forced upon Archer which makes for some uncomfortable challenging viewing. You could see him making similar decisions to Captain Ransom from the Equinox if the situation was to drag on for a few years. Mayweather on the other hand seems to have regressed character wise, guy barely had 5 lines so far this season. He's starting to remind me a bit of the first episode of the 2005 Doctor Who revival where Rose's boyfriend Mickey gets turned into a plastic version of himself.

    I kind of wish they had dropped the Temporal Cold War stuff. The main plot is strong enough to stand up on its own and having Daniels popping in and out on occasion just makes the whole thing more confusing to follow without really adding to the story. Especially as it's been going on since the start of Season 1 where I lost interest.




    You leave Daniels alone: He was in Galaxy Quest


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    #69
    Evade
    Registered Users Posts: 6,726 ✭✭✭Evade


    Deleted User wrote: »
    You leave Daniels alone: He was in Galaxy Quest
    Speaking of which, it got added to Netflix this week if anyone hasn't seen it (shame).


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    #70
    Bobtheman
    Registered Users Posts: 2,644 ✭✭✭Bobtheman


    Enterprise was wrong conceptually. Why go back in time? Where is the justification there ? Given the first series was shot in the 196os?
    Secondly archer was badly cast. Scott not a bad actor but no real gravitas like kirk or Picard.
    Thirdly this was the fourth series in less than 20 years and didn't really add anything. Perhaps they wanted to mimic the CSI franchise /star gate well but that equals Creative dead end.
    All of this being said it's way better character wise than voyager. I think it got better as it went along but was too late.


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    #71
    Rawr
    Registered Users Posts: 3,756 ✭✭✭Rawr


    Bobtheman wrote: »
    Enterprise was wrong conceptually. Why go back in time? Where is the justification there ? Given the first series was shot in the 196os?

    It was developed around about the time when the Star Wars Prequel trilogy was coming out. My guess is that they were following a trend of doing prequel stuff.


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    #72
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Also the Earth/Romulan war and founding of Federation was ripe to be told.

    The Temporal Cold War was the killer. Everything could have been done without it and by changing the Suliban and Xindi data brokers to be Romulan.
    From the start you could have had the Romulans be wary of the pace of human advancement.


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    #73
    pixelburp
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 35,941 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    It was a bizarre creative decision from the off: a genuinely interesting premise that remained a huge unmined gap in Trek canon. How DID Earth get from ww3 to the Federation? It could have been a fantastic show of intrigue, politics, compromise and themes of how far one should test the limits of one's ideals in pursuing Utopia.

    Nope, instead, we got the Temporal Cold War absolutely nobody gave a shít about from the very first episode. It could have also been the most "newbie" friendly Trek series in a while, but the Code War nonsense jammed up the basic creative stakes established. Asking a cold audience to take in not just one premise (future of humanity trying to explore the stars against their "betters" wishes), but two (aliens from the future want to prevent this premise we literally just learned about). At the very least the production team should have pushed the Cold War to the backhalf of season 1, a Big Bad revealed after a series of discoveries...


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    #74
    Banana Republic 1
    Registered Users Posts: 3,328 ✭✭✭Banana Republic 1


    Johnny Storm wrote: »
    Totally correct. They thought they could appeal to some imaginary non-star trek audience. After 3 unsuccessful seasons they then changed tack in season 4 and tried to get the trekkies back, plus added "Star Trek" to the name.
    IMHO Enterprise is the worst of all star trek series
    Because they decided not to call it "star trek" I personally feel free to consider Enterprise to be non-canonical.;)

    It’s 100 times better than std


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    #75
    Rawr
    Registered Users Posts: 3,756 ✭✭✭Rawr


    pixelburp wrote: »
    It was a bizarre creative decision from the off: a genuinely interesting premise that remained a huge unmined gap in Trek canon. How DID Earth get from ww3 to the Federation? It could have been a fantastic show of intrigue, politics, compromise and themes of how far one should test the limits of one's ideals in pursuing Utopia.

    Nope, instead, we got the Temporal Cold War absolutely nobody gave a shít about from the very first episode. It could have also been the most "newbie" friendly Trek series in a while, but the Code War nonsense jammed up the basic creative stakes established. Asking a cold audience to take in not just one premise (future of humanity trying to explore the stars against their "betters" wishes), but two (aliens from the future want to prevent this premise we literally just learned about). At the very least the production team should have pushed the Cold War to the backhalf of season 1, a Big Bad revealed after a series of discoveries...

    +1

    I still remember my initial excitement and almost immediate disappointment with the first episode of Enterprise.

    "Klingon crashes on earth? Awesome! First Contact with the Klingons and the beginning of the 1st Federation/Klingon War! Interesting!" But no, they either forgot about that bit of cannon, or simply didn't care.

    United Earth never went to war with the Klingons, and so they had to spend the run of the show threatening that war, but never actually doing it. I move which surprisingly made these TOS-era Klingons a bit of a non-villian. Instead we get some creepy looking Sullibans (who I never liked), and a shadowy future-guy pulling the strings (who I never cared about).

    The Xindi were far more interesting, and totally agree that all of this should have been some Romulan plot. It could even been part of the reason behind the *still* unexplored Earth / Romulan War. It still boggles my mind that Trek history has a conflict between pre-Federation Earth and the Romulan Star F***ing Empire and we've never seen anything of it.

    I really do hope the rumors of an animated continuation of Enterprise have some basis in reality, and that they plan to take advantage of this massive gap in the Trek story.


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    #76
    _Kaiser_
    Registered Users Posts: 28,680 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    TheValeyard wrote: »
    This thread has made me restart watching Enterprise. I'm enjoying S1 again.

    I started watching it this week myself and there's a lot of episodes I either don't remember or never watched in S1 alone. I'm skipping some of the obviously weak ones, but for a first season overall it's not too bad.

    Just onto S2 and I for one enjoy the Temporal Cold War plot.. they should have done more with it though.

    For all its flaws, it's still FAR better than Discovery or Picard though - optimistic, generally likeable characters, and episodic so if you don't enjoy one the next one will likely be better (as opposed to 10 hours of dark, depressing "gritty" stories that crap all over what Trek was/is)


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    #77
    Rawr
    Registered Users Posts: 3,756 ✭✭✭Rawr


    Finished my run of ENT the other day.

    Terra Prime was a pretty strong season end, and might have actually been a decent open-ended conclusion for ENT if they hadn't ended the way they did.
    I regret going on to watch the official ending "These are the Voyages...", because now I feel the need to rant.

    Put aside the whole thing about this being a TNG Holodeck episode and that Frakes & Sirtis were doing a piss-poor job at reprising their roles in this, the actual ENT "story" that is supposed to inspire Riker was a horrendous and poorly written mess. Clearly a rush job (which I guess it was). Out of all the adventures the NX-01 had been on, from the Xindi, to the horrors of the Romulan F***ing War, the most impactful NX-01 story that TNG-folk play as a holo-novel is the gripping tale of how Archer helps Shran save his kid from some hapless gangsters. Then said gangsters attack the NX-01, off screen, and board....off screen.

    Finally you have Trip's weird sacrifice where he tricks the gangsters into letting him rewire a bay so that he can "send a message" to find a guy that they themselves could have just found if they bothered to look. They build it up as some epic historic moment, but just comes across as stupid. Now, they attempt to frame the significance of all this via confessionals with Chef Riker, but it doesn't really land. I really don't see Riker being convinced to come clean about the USS Pegasus based on this story.

    To get some context I watched "The Pegasus" right after, and the TNG episode itself did a lot better job at showing Riker weighing the morality of his position throughout that episode. He appears to come clean about the cloaking device as soon as he realises that the safety of Enterprise was at stake...but before then we were already being shown that this secret weighed too heavily on him, and that he wanted to share this knowledge with Picard. "These are the Voyages" tries to wedge itself into a TNG episode that didn't really need any extra material. Also, even though we were only talking about 10 years difference, Frakes and Sirtis were clearly older than when they played these roles in TNG Season 7. It looked like they had applied a bucket-load of makeup on the pair of them, but it did not hide the bags around their eyes, they were clearly older.

    Makes me wonder if they could had stopped for a second, and maybe instead of rushing out a finale episode, that they could have made a TV-movie about the NX-01 in the Romulan War, or some other event that naturally leads up to the founding of the Federation, and *then* end the show.


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    #78
    TheValeyard
    Registered Users Posts: 12,215 ✭✭✭✭TheValeyard


    Yeah, it's was a travesty of an ending. The show did great work improving in S3 and S4 with really interesting plots and connecting old Trek lore. The last episode was like its throat slowly getting slit.

    Fcuk Putin. Glory to Ukraine!



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    #79
    Cookie_Monster
    Registered Users Posts: 24,470 ✭✭✭✭Cookie_Monster


    it's such a shame it was cancelled.
    The ENT rise of the federation books are a good followup, the romulan war ones are OK

    It's also one of the best mapped out starships from trek, see here for hugely detailed deck plans
    https://www.cygnus-x1.net/links/lcars/enterprise-nx-01-deckplans.php


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    #80
    Rawr
    Registered Users Posts: 3,756 ✭✭✭Rawr


    Cookie_Monster wrote: »
    it's such a shame it was cancelled.
    The ENT rise of the federation books are a good followup, the romulan war ones are OK

    It's also one of the best mapped out starships from trek, see here for hugely detailed deck plans
    https://www.cygnus-x1.net/links/lcars/enterprise-nx-01-deckplans.php

    Damn you Cookie! I was going to do work today, and now I'm exploring NX-01!

    :D

    Gotta love the Standard-issue Beagle in the Captains Quarters:
    536374.PNG


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    #81
    _Kaiser_
    Registered Users Posts: 28,680 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    Just watched "Judgement" (S2) tonight... Hertzler is just great even when he's not (technically) playing Martok - although as the character was a lawyer and had civilian parents, it could have been an ancestor.

    LOTS of TUC references too. Great episode!


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    #82
    _Kaiser_
    Registered Users Posts: 28,680 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    Finished season 3 tonight. Pretty solid overall, especially in the final few, but with a few duds earlier on.

    I think the show was hampered by coming immediately after DS9 and Voyager and too much of a change with no patience given for it to bed in - much like how Stargate Universe was very poorly received for similar reasons but actually holds up pretty well the futher it goes on.

    If both shows had aired 4/5 years later then I think things would have been very different.


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    #83
    _Kaiser_
    Registered Users Posts: 28,680 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    Halfway through season 4 (3-parter with the Romulan drone ship) and the quality improvements are significant.

    It really is a shame it was cancelled when it was.


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    #84
    Banana Republic 1
    Registered Users Posts: 3,328 ✭✭✭Banana Republic 1


    _Kaiser_ wrote: »
    Halfway through season 4 (3-parter with the Romulan drone ship) and the quality improvements are significant.

    It really is a shame it was cancelled when it was.

    It’s is especially when you have discovery and Picard vomited out with the budget they have it’s sickening.


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    #85
    Stark
    Registered Users Posts: 20,895 ✭✭✭✭Stark


    I enjoyed season 4 a lot. The next couple of episodes annoyed me though. Totally pointless service to the annoying fans who wouldn't take "makeup and production standards improved between TOS and TNG eras" as enough of a reason for Klingon forehead ridges.


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    #86
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Stark wrote: »
    I enjoyed season 4 a lot. The next couple of episodes annoyed me though. Totally pointless service to the annoying fans who wouldn't take "makeup and production standards improved between TOS and TNG eras" as enough of a reason for Klingon forehead ridges.




    Blame DS9 for that one. Trials and Tribble-ations made it canon that there were official times of ridgeless Klingons


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    #87
    Stark
    Registered Users Posts: 20,895 ✭✭✭✭Stark


    Yeah but DS9's contribution was a genuinely funny scene as part of an overall TOS homage episode. They overestimated the fanbase who took it as a canon contribution rather than the joke it was intended as. Enterprise gave over a whole two parter to the issue of "fixing the canon" and was a dull and humourless effort all round. Much like the particular fans it was written for.


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    #88
    AllForIt
    Registered Users Posts: 8,287 ✭✭✭AllForIt


    Enterprise is the only ST series I never watched. Iirc what put me off it was the female Vulcan's plastic surgery looking face and the ship bridge which seemed so claustrophobic, not much bigger than a broom cupboard. I didn't like the theme tune either, a bit Texan band like.

    If someone can confirm it's better than Disco I'd consider giving it another try!


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    #89
    Stark
    Registered Users Posts: 20,895 ✭✭✭✭Stark


    I preferred Disco's first season to Enterprise's first season. First two seasons and the first few episodes of the third season of Enterprise were pretty dull imo and the characters were all wooden AF. Once Season 3 kicks into gear though, it has some of the best episodes of any Trek. I'm sorry I waited until this year to find that out.


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    #90
    Evade
    Registered Users Posts: 6,726 ✭✭✭Evade


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Blame DS9 for that one. Trials and Tribble-ations made it canon that there were official times of ridgeless Klingons
    I would have loved if they'd changed Worf's make-up in his scenes on the station to match the TOS look and never commented on it.


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    #91
    Banana Republic 1
    Registered Users Posts: 3,328 ✭✭✭Banana Republic 1


    AllForIt wrote: »
    Enterprise is the only ST series I never watched. Iirc what put me off it was the female Vulcan's plastic surgery looking face and the ship bridge which seemed so claustrophobic, not much bigger than a broom cupboard. I didn't like the theme tune either, a bit Texan band like.

    If someone can confirm it's better than Disco I'd consider giving it another try!

    A million times better


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