Nissan Leaf battery upgrade

kierank01

pszemo wrote: »

They add extra batteries (using own modules) in the trunk as a extender battery.

OK, but I still don't understand what makes that alright, from an insurance perspective.

Wouldn't 3phase charging be equivalent to cutting a hole in the side of the fuel tank, to fill it up faster? Doesn't sound like something that an insurance company would be fine with.

pszemo

SlowBlowin wrote: »

The difference is they replace Nissan modules with Nissan modules.

I posted a link to their web site earlier.

What about batteries in the trunk? Are they Nissan modules?

liamog

I found this on chill.ie (https://www.chill.ie/blog/insuring-a-modified-car/)

What Is The Definition of a Modified Car/Vehicle?
For a definition of what constitutes a modified car in Ireland we need to look at what the department of revenue have on their website.

They have two definitions of a modified / converted car that they use for VRT purposes.

A registered vehicle which has been modified in such manner that any of the particulars recorded for the purpose of its registration are altered.
An unregistered vehicle which has been modified in such manner that any of the particulars recorded for the purpose of its type-approval, or, if it has been registered previously in another jurisdiction, for the purpose of the most recent such registration, are altered.

Did the Leaf 24kW and Leaf 30kW have different type approvals? I'm pretty sure a manufacturer can't just increase the battery capacity without it requiring a new vehicle type approval. In which case, a non oem replacement would require insurance notification.
I wonder did anyone test this with a Zoe battery upgrade.

SlowBlowin

pszemo wrote: »

What about batteries in the trunk? Are they Nissan modules?

I recall they are modules (safety tested and marked) from the surplus market. I can't remember what they are from but its automotive. Check on the link I posted earlier, and watch some of the videos, he does discuss them.

SlowBlowin

As I said earlier I think the OP has a real business, if he uses his obvious knowledge to do battery swaps and conversions by fitting safety tested and marked modules. Swapping cells is the issue.

Even so all buyers should be aware they will need to arrange an insurance quote, for this they will need a detailed technical report from the OP on the intended work, which will have to forwarded to the insurer for say so (not a broker).

I think if he can secure a few newer batteries and offer a swap service then hes away...

liamog

I was trying to find info on what insurers see as a vehicle modification, the chill.ie article was the only one I found for Ireland.
This UK AA article made me scratch my head.

https://www.theaa.com/car-insurance/advice/car-modifications

If you want to modify a car, talk to your insurer before you spend any money. Even something as apparently minor as a go-faster stripe could signal a higher risk and alter your premium.

I'm wondering if the wrapped grill on our Ioniq should have been declared!

pszemo

SlowBlowin wrote: »

I recall they are modules (safety tested and marked) from the surplus market. I can't remember what they are from but its automotive. Check on the link I posted earlier, and watch some of the videos, he does discuss them.

I did check, he might be using lifepo4 cells.
See what cells are usink Kona, Bolt.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/electricrevs.com/2018/12/20/exclusive-details-on-hyundais-new-battery-thermal-management-design/amp/

SlowBlowin

pszemo wrote: »

I did check, he might be using lifepo4 cells.
See what cells are usink Kona, Bolt.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/electricrevs.com/2018/12/20/exclusive-details-on-hyundais-new-battery-thermal-management-design/amp/

Yes they use very similar cells that you have used. I note that in order to meet with LGs installation specs they both have engineered thermal management systems (unlike the Leaf) between the pouches. I asked you about your modules construction earlier but you wont disclose the details, so I dont know if you have reto fitted a thermal management system, something that removes heat at cell level ?

zg3409

liamog wrote: »

I was trying to find info on what insurers see as a vehicle modification, the chill.ie article was the only one I found for Ireland.
This UK AA article made me scratch my head.

https://www.theaa.com/car-insurance/advice/car-modifications



I'm wondering if the wrapped grill on our Ioniq should have been declared!

Anything non factory fitted, including non factory radio, non factory wheels, exhaust or air filter changes. These might affect performance or risk of theft or handling. I saw an insurance assessor on TV declining a claim due to a non factory fitted bumper.

The question asked is usually is car modified from factory specification. Part of the increased risk is those who apply go faster stickers tend to go faster. If its all declared to insurer then no issue.

n97 mini

Got me thinking. When I was into cars years ago I knew a few lads who bought cars with blown engines, sourced replacements from breakers, and did the swap themselves. I'm pretty sure they informed the folks in Shannon that the engine number had changed, and there was no issue with insurance.

Not exactly the same, I know, but all things being equal there should be no problems.

Thinking further about it, if the cells are replaced with non-Nissan sourced cells, type approval might be required. People in the UK who build kit cars or import odd cars from Japan do single vehicle type approval all the time to make sure they're road legal. Is there somewhere here to go to to get type approval? I've never heard of anyone doing it.

SlowBlowin

n97 mini wrote: »

Got me thinking. When I was into cars years ago I knew a few lads who bought cars with blown engines, sourced replacements from breakers, and did the swap themselves. I'm pretty sure they informed the folks in Shannon that the engine number had changed, and there was no issue with insurance.

Not exactly the same, I know, but all things being equal there should be no problems.

Thinking further about it, if the cells are replaced with non-Nissan sourced cells, type approval might be required. People in the UK who build kit cars or import odd cars from Japan do single vehicle type approval all the time to make sure they're road legal. Is there somewhere here to go to to get type approval? I've never heard of anyone doing it.

As I said there is no issue swapping a Nissan battery with a Nissan battery, thats the same as swapping an engine with the same model engine.

Never seen a conversion where someone has made their own battery (like the OP), all I have seen use safety tested modules from the automotive industry.

pszemo

SlowBlowin wrote: »

As I said there is no issue swapping a Nissan battery with a Nissan battery, thats the same as swapping an engine with the same model engine.

Never seen a conversion where someone has made their own battery (like the OP), all I have seen use safety tested modules from the automotive industry.

You need to look more....
Here is another people using them own lg cells driving in Spain and with no active colling.

SlowBlowin

pszemo wrote: »

You need to look more....
Here is another people using them own lg cells driving in Spain and with no active colling.

Thanks for that, can you post a link to the conversion or is it just these 2 pictures of an untested conversion (his words), he had not even driven it yet !!!!

A picture post on Twitter means nothing:

rocket.jpg

As you said I dont look hard enough so post a link so we can all learn more.

Nissan do not use LG cells, I guess they heard about the conversions as they issued a statement:

“LG does not supply any cells for our batteries, both in the US and globally, for either the 40 or 62 kWh battery."

“LG is not a supplier for Nissan LEAF batteries or cells. Nissan manufacturers the batteries for the Nissan LEAF at our battery plant in Smyrna, Tennessee."

So this is a non Nissan battery, as such it needs a full engineers report before any EI based insurance company will consider insuring it (and most have said it may be uninsurable). I have checked with:

Power Insurances
EVInsurance.ie
Nonstandard.ie
Insuremycars.ie

You said earlier you will not disclose details of construction much less a full engineers report, so as far as I can see its a dead end with main stream insurers.

You must have insured your car with the DIY/ non standard battery, can you let us know the insurer so I can get a quote ?

Silent Running

SlowBlowin wrote: »

Thanks for that, can you post a link to the conversion or is it just these 2 pictures of an untested conversion (his words), he had not even driven it yet !!!!

A picture post on Twitter means nothing:

rocket.jpg

As you said I dont look hard enough so post a link so we can all learn more.

Nissan do not use LG cells, I guess they heard about the conversions as they issued a statement:

“LG does not supply any cells for our batteries, both in the US and globally, for either the 40 or 62 kWh battery."

“LG is not a supplier for Nissan LEAF batteries or cells. Nissan manufacturers the batteries for the Nissan LEAF at our battery plant in Smyrna, Tennessee."

So this is a non Nissan battery, as such it needs a full engineers report before any EI based insurance company will consider insuring it (and most have said it may be uninsurable). I have checked with:

Power Insurances
EVInsurance.ie
Nonstandard.ie
Insuremycars.ie

You said earlier you will not disclose details of construction much less a full engineers report, so as far as I can see its a dead end with main stream insurers.

You must have insured your car with the DIY/ non standard battery, can you let us know the insurer so I can get a quote ?

I've lived in Spain. Getting an engineer's report isn't a problem. I once got modifications certified on a VW without the engineer even setting eyes on the vehicle.

Loose translation was "what do you want me to put in the report?"

pszemo

SlowBlowin wrote: »

Thanks for that, can you post a link to the conversion or is it just these 2 pictures of an untested conversion (his words), he had not even driven it yet !!!!

A picture post on Twitter means nothing:

rocket.jpg

As you said I dont look hard enough so post a link so we can all learn more.

Nissan do not use LG cells, I guess they heard about the conversions as they issued a statement:

“LG does not supply any cells for our batteries, both in the US and globally, for either the 40 or 62 kWh battery."

“LG is not a supplier for Nissan LEAF batteries or cells. Nissan manufacturers the batteries for the Nissan LEAF at our battery plant in Smyrna, Tennessee."

So this is a non Nissan battery, as such it needs a full engineers report before any EI based insurance company will consider insuring it (and most have said it may be uninsurable). I have checked with:

Power Insurances
EVInsurance.ie
Nonstandard.ie
Insuremycars.ie

You said earlier you will not disclose details of construction much less a full engineers report, so as far as I can see its a dead end with main stream insurers.

You must have insured your car with the DIY/ non standard battery, can you let us know the insurer so I can get a quote ?

I'll prepare raport by the end of the year.

I'm planning next upgrade in late September and will share pictures here.
When will be possible to drive around the country I will do long driving test and fast charging and upload video on YouTube.
Mayby on the next car Nissan will use LG cells.

SlowBlowin

pszemo wrote: »

I'll prepare raport by the end of the year.

I'm planning next upgrade in late September and will share pictures here.
When will be possible to drive around the country I will do long driving test and fast charging and upload video on YouTube.
Mayby on the next car Nissan will use LG cells.

OK, be good to see your battery conversion n tested over long distances.

Can I ask again about your insurance, or your customers insurance ? Are you driving under garage plates or do you have separate cover on the Leaf, who is it with ?

The next Nissan might use LG cells, but I doubt it, they have a big investment in their own partners. The LG cells are great cells, need cooling though.

pszemo

SlowBlowin wrote: »

OK, be good to see your battery conversion n tested over long distances.

Can I ask again about your insurance, or your customers insurance ? Are you driving under garage plates or do you have separate cover on the Leaf, who is it with ?

The next Nissan might use LG cells, but I doubt it, they have a big investment in their own partners. The LG cells are great cells, need cooling though.

I'm with Aviva Fully Comprehensive insurance.

SlowBlowin

pszemo wrote: »

I'm with Aviva Fully Comprehensive insurance.

Did you disclose the battery modification and send them an engineers report ?

pszemo

SlowBlowin wrote: »

Did you disclose the battery modification and send them an engineers report ?

No i did not.

SlowBlowin

pszemo wrote: »

No i did not.

OK, that makes sense.

I am not knocking you for that (I said before its a great project), but if you want to offer it as a commercial service then you could be putting yourself and your customers at huge risk by not disclosing the details of the conversion to the insurers.

I have yet to see any insured EV conversion/battery swap that used non type approved modules (no matter how hard I look).

Cocoloco72

Do you do the upgrades that go into the boot so it adds to the existing batterys

Orebro

I'm glad Elon Musk didn't come on here when he was thinking about using a Lotus body for an electric roadster, we probably wouldn't have Tesla now

pszemo

Cocoloco72 wrote: »

Do you do the upgrades that go into the boot so it adds to the existing batterys

No i don't. In my opinion is safer to put all batteries into existing battery box so they don't get damaged during acident.

SlowBlowin

Orebro wrote: »

I'm glad Elon Musk didn't come on here when he was thinking about using a Lotus body for an electric roadster, we probably wouldn't have Tesla now

Ironically Elon says going for the Lotus chassis was one of the worst decisions he ever made. He said that he should have designed a Tesla chassis, the Lotus one caused no end of issues..

unkel

Interesting, wasn't aware of that. I know very little about the first few years of Tesla, must read up. No surprise really though as Colin Chapman's motto was to "add lightness". Lotus are extremely light and not very strong. Bad idea to add several hundred kg of batteries to one

Gumbo

SlowBlowin wrote: »

OK, that makes sense.

I am not knocking you for that (I said before its a great project), but if you want to offer it as a commercial service then you could be putting yourself and your customers at huge risk by not disclosing the details of the conversion to the insurers.

I have yet to see any insured EV conversion/battery swap that used non type approved modules (no matter how hard I look).

If I get my TDi remapped, the remapped didn’t do anything wrong if I don’t inform my insurer. The service provider is in no way associated to the insured not telling their insurer about modifications in my opinion.

Pkiernan

Gumbo wrote: »

If I get my TDi remapped, the remapped didn’t do anything wrong if I don’t inform my insurer. The service provider is in no way associated to the insured not telling their insurer about modifications in my opinion.

If the remap isn't certified and it sets your car on fire, the remapper certainly did do something wrong.

zg3409

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4a_HJQ-Yd4

From Spain. Battery type is in the video description.

Published on 7 Jun 2020
https://evbatteryrebuilds.com/
Upgrade process for a Leaf 2011 battery to 64 kWH with LG Chem cells.
Twitter: @evbatteryrebuil
Facebook: @renovablesdelsur

If the charging profile hasn't changed I wouldn't like to see this at a DC charger, it would take forever.

zg3409

See this report from 3 Irish people bringing their leafs to Muxan for battery upgrades

https://www.irishevowners.ie/guest-post-leaf-battery-upgrade-quadruple-the-range-part1/?fbclid=IwAR0A5pudEazqAeDjPA9y2oqKKJzJ0ltNski_rkVT_DouJYdaAZ2xshZ7fNs

pszemo

Hello.
Please see attached photos. The car is after installation can bus device and programing the VCM. I have done nearly 5k from the upgrade without any problems. Test drive coming soon.
Thanks

slave1

If SOH is 93.X% why are there not 12 bars showing?
Great admirer of your efforts by the way

pszemo

slave1 wrote: »

If SOH is 93.X% why are there not 12 bars showing?
Great admirer of your efforts by the way

SOH is growing with every charge cycle.. Eventually will hit 103%. It is showing oryginal 10 bars from 24 kwh battery. It can be reset easily. I'm still working on the can bus decoding. There will be some updates. The biggest problem was to show correct range and battery capacity. If you will use modules with higher capasaty then oryginal 24kwh you need to reprogram VCM.

Jeditraining1

pszemo wrote: »

7,000euro for 34kwh and 8,500 43kwh. I might have some discount for first costumer. 2 years warranty

Do you have any contact details? Site etc...

zg3409

I see a guy on Facebook in Ireland replaced his 24kWh battery with a newer 24kWh and now a 40kWh. He got the battery from an Irish crashed leaf and used a can adapter to get the new battery to talk to the old leaf. Says now getting 160km motorway and 200km mixed driving. He did it DIY and said not much to it as battery is physically easily swappable. 255 km showing on guess o meter when full

https://m.facebook.com/groups/107445206006743?view=permalink&id=3523644214386808&fs=1&focus_composer=0

extremetaz

zg3409 wrote: »

I see a guy on Facebook in Ireland replaced his 24kWh battery with a newer 24kWh and now a 40kWh. He got the battery from an Irish crashed leaf and used a can adapter to get the new battery to talk to the old leaf. Says now getting 160km motorway and 200km mixed driving. He did it DIY and said not much to it as battery is physically easily swappable. 255 km showing on guess o meter when full

https://m.facebook.com/groups/107445206006743?view=permalink&id=3523644214386808&fs=1&focus_composer=0

That's me, and I'm happy to talk about the effort but I'd rather not drag pszemo's thread off on a tangent. I spoke to the man over the phone as soon as I heard about him, and I cannot stress enough the importance of this skill set and industry developing.

EV's are only cleaner if they stay in service - scrapping an entire vehicle because its only major consumable has reached end-of-life is no sort of solution. Battery replacement needs to be a whole new thing. It's an early days industry yet, and there will of course be concerns regarding the characteristics and maintenance of any aftermarket pack but as long as those questions can be answered, and answered straight, then I see no reason to get hung up on it.

Fundamentally a replacement pack needs to:
- Not catch fire
- Not change the performance of the car
- Not require modification to the car during fitment
- Not alter the crash performance of the vehicle
- Not alter the emergency response procedures for the vehicle

This amounts to the pack fitting securely within the factory supplied enclosure, having an effective BMS, retaining the same safety and isolation hardware in the same locations, and matching the mass and mass distribution of the OEM pack to a good degree.

The pack cannot in itself alter the power performance of the vehicle, so if all of the above are met then I would have no reservations on the point.

I haven't seen pszemo's work and don't have any knowledge of the specifics of it, but if he's managed to cover a few thousand km with no loss of function then I'd say he must be doing something right - and I'm very happy to wish him well. At the prices he's offering I just hope he's leaving himself enough margin to honor warranty and service, and still keep things worth his while.

unkel

I'd say I'm not alone in wanting you to start your own thread on this, extremetaz. Please do!

SlowBlowin

Hi Extremetaz, I second that, really would be good to learn more about your upgrade and the issues you had to overcome.

I am super interested to know how much you paid for the Nissan battery, I have been looking for price but they are few and far between.

...Ghost...

Definitely start new thread on that upgrade.


I want to chime in here after reading most of the thread. I am really glad to see the OP making these efforts to increase the range of an old Leaf. It may well be a service I will avail of at some stage. I share much of the concerns shared here, but less on the safety aspect, as I am confident this will be overcome if it hasn't been already.

As I see it, extending the range with a better battery is not fundamentally altering the vehicle and it isn't comparable to replacing the engine, as we would then be talking about motors, not batteries. It also is not like putting a bigger tank in an ice car unless you are increasing the volumetric space the battery pack takes up, or you add a range extender pack. It's probably a better comparison to look at fuel additives which can increase the efficiency of an ICE vehicle, but even that is a loose comparison.

If the pack is built safely and is certified safe, checked and certified by an engineer, NCT'd and perhaps noted on the logbook for new capacity, there really should be no problem.

However, there is a problem and it's the insurance industry. They don't like anything outside their tight box ticking criteria and they will refuse to insure you, or make it difficult and expensive for adding a bigger pack which has passed the tests and is certified. To add salt to the wound, many will refuse to insure a car over 10 years old which is exactly when an old Leaf would likely benefit from such an upgrade to keep it out of the scrap yard.

extremetaz

Why is the NCT and the log book bring brought in to this? Neither have any thing to do with such a modification
The log book doesn't list anything about the battery and I see no need for that to change.
The NCT can check that the thing isn't about to fall out, but they're not qualified to do any more than that.

Anyone who knows what goes into building a reliable lithium pack, and how that pack interacts with the car to begin with, already knows that there's not much room for error and the safety interlocks are substantial. There needs to be standards and certification for aftermarkets packs, definitely - absolutely no question about that. Once that certification is achieved though, the insurance company will have to view it like any other servicable part, and you don't see them voiding claims because you switch your brake pads from EBC to Juratek, or your tires from Bridgestone to Firestone...

Once the part is certified as being fit for use they've no case, or justification, for concern. It's that simple. So the only question is what that certification process looks like. The standards governing EV packs, that I'm aware of, are IEC 12405, 19453 and 60254. Which components of each need to be observed I'd have to read through to find out (and I'm not going to because I don't need to - and lets face it, nobody would unless they do!), but that's the place to start where all of that is concerned.

*edit: A very quick google also brought up this (which I've also not read yet, but at least its free to view unlike most IEC standards).

...Ghost...

extremetaz wrote: »

Why is the NCT and the log book bring brought in to this? Neither have any thing to do with such a modification
The log book doesn't list anything about the battery and I see no need for that to change.
The NCT can check that the thing isn't about to fall out, but they're not qualified to do any more than that.

Anyone who knows what goes into building a reliable lithium pack, and how that pack interacts with the car to begin with, already knows that there's not much room for error and the safety interlocks are substantial. There needs to be standards and certification for aftermarkets packs, definitely - absolutely no question about that. Once that certification is achieved though, the insurance company will have to view it like any other servicable part, and you don't see them voiding claims because you switch your brake pads from EBC to Juratek, or your tires from Bridgestone to Firestone...

Once the part is certified as being fit for use they've no case, or justification, for concern. It's that simple. So the only question is what that certification process looks like. The standards governing EV packs, that I'm aware of, are IEC 12405, 19453 and 60254. Which components of each need to be observed I'd have to read through to find out (and I'm not going to because I don't need to - and lets face it, nobody would unless they do!), but that's the place to start where all of that is concerned.

*edit: A very quick google also brought up this (which I've also not read yet, but at least its free to view unlike most IEC standards).

I mention the NCT as the vehicle should have a valid NCT. I mention the logbook because I am pretty sure my logbook has the battery capacity written on it, but I might be mistaken. A higher capacity battery will add value to the car and if this is on the logbook, you then have grounds to argue that value when the insurer tries to low-ball you in the event of a claim for a stolen, or written off car.

Insurance companies are still a cartel getting away with so much, it makes my blood boil. What they should do and what they actually do are not aligned. I renewed my insurance the other day. My renewal quote was pretty good and I went with it, but I also shopped around before paying the premium. Insurers are still asking the sex of proposer and named persons, even though they supposedly can't change the price based on gender. They still view Japanese imports as some sort of bomb, unless of course the car was sold new through a dealership here. They still ask about non motor related convictions and they will use ANY excuse to get out of paying a claim.

I agree that once the replacement is certified, there should be nothing else required. In practice, the insurer will simply refuse to quote anything outside the norm and you may well be priced out of the market. I have experienced this BS a number of times and it can be difficult to get around. Some examples below.

*I had trouble insuring a Mazda Bongo I was using as a commercial vehicle. Most insurers didn't have it listed and wouldn't go further than that. "Sorry, it's not on our system". I had to complete an offline application and the price was prohibitively expensive.

*I found it very difficult to insure a Mitsubishi FTO when I purchased one. Nobody would quote a jap import. My full clean Irish DL with over 10 years NCB made no difference. I was about to sell the car on when I got lucky and insured it online, but I was stuck with the same insurer for years at their mercy.

*I was unable to insure a road legal quad. I rang every insurer and broker listed and I was told that I needed to have x amount of my own farm land to be able to get a quote, even though it was a road quad which had been legally driven on European roads before coming to Ireland.

Pkiernan

Anyone who thinks that an Insurance company wont be able to void a policy based on a 3rd party batter install is kidding themselves.
At the very least, this change needs to be reported to and agreed by your insurer.

Kramer

pszemo wrote: »

Hi everyone
My upgrade is for everyone with Nissan Leaf from 2011 to 2016 who wants to give a second life to his car.
I'm offering replacement your old battery modules with brand new LG Chem cells.

OP, maybe register/advertise here:

https://insideevs.com/news/443871/world-map-for-battery-replacing-companies/

hasse

Seeing the Nissan eNV200 is basically a NV200 with Leaf battery and Drivetrain, would it be possible to get this battery replacement for a eNV200?
Trying to find an electric 7 seater without spendingTesla Model X kind of money, and a eNV200 seems to be only potential option.

kierank01

hasse wrote: »

Seeing the Nissan eNV200 is basically a NV200 with Leaf battery and Drivetrain, would it be possible to get this battery replacement for a eNV200?
Trying to find an electric 7 seater without spendingTesla Model X kind of money, and a eNV200 seems to be only potential option.

According to the internet, the env200 has active battery cooling, so should not suffer anything like the same battery degradation as the leaf, so should not be required.
Although I haven't checked, the battery warranty might be different on the env200(as it is actively cooled), so if there was a problem, it might be covered under warranty.

hasse

kierank01 wrote: »

According to the internet, the env200 has active battery cooling, so should not suffer anything like the same battery degradation as the leaf, so should not be required.
Although I haven't checked, the battery warranty might be different on the env200(as it is actively cooled), so if there was a problem, it might be covered under warranty.

Actually the main reason I would be interested would be battery capacity. As I understood the initial post in the thread it would be possible to replace with larger capacity.

The env200 is lagging substantially behind the Leaf in capacity. 40KWh was only introduced in 2018 and is currently the largest capacity available., So if I can get my hands on a second hand one it will almost definitely be 24KWh, which is a bit small for such a big car, particularly for a one car family...

zg3409

I see an Irish guy went to muxan for battery upgrade

https://www.irishevowners.ie/rangetherapy-autumn-2020-is-a-new-spring-for-irish-leafs/

zg3409

zg3409 wrote: »

I see an Irish guy went to muxan for battery upgrade

https://www.irishevowners.ie/rangetherapy-autumn-2020-is-a-new-spring-for-irish-leafs/

Why would anyone bother ?

SteM

zg3409 wrote: »

I see an Irish guy went to muxan for battery upgrade

https://www.irishevowners.ie/rangetherapy-autumn-2020-is-a-new-spring-for-irish-leafs/

These are going to be quite popular with Gen 1 and Gen 2 Leaf owners over the next few years I'd imagine.

cannco253

Deleted User wrote: »

Why would anyone bother ?

Surely this is the way forward, replacing or adding batteries instead of changing cars? If you're interested in EVs but don't want to put down big money upfront you can pick up a cheap leaf and upgrade the battery.

What will this market look like in 4-5 years time when more secondhand EVs become available like the ID3.

Well done Eamon !