Lucky Escape at level Crossing

whisky_galore

IE 222 wrote: »

What's the end result here. Unless there made an example of nothing is going to change here. A simple lucky escape message isn't going to improve things. Will these people be charged? Can they be charged for the cost of damage to the train, do insurance companies cover this?

Is there any laws/fines for leaving gates open.

€1000 fine, good luck catching anyone for that without cctv or personnel on the ground.

Isambard

whisky_galore wrote: »

That's a big supposition, and a situation that can't be engineered out short of self driving cars.

it's not a supposition, it's really a comment that people don't generally drive through Yield signs without looking and if they do they are likely to have an accident, so why do they do just that at railway crossings?

1874

2 questions


1. Having only crossed railway tracks at busy locations where they are automated, it appears a vehicle could get into the space either side of the track and close the gate behind them, completely cross, open the other side, move out and close it behind them?
Rather than fully automatic, there must be some option to make this easier to deal with, so that its more likely it will be observed correctly.
I still dont understand why there aren't lights of some sort to warn of an oncoming train and/or stop lights?


2.
What the hell was going on with that crash in Norway, one clip doesnt seem to be accessible now, how is a vehicle on the tracks, seemingly just parked there? is it all of the same incident, one clip showed the pantograph getting detached? not clear how that is getting snagged.

Jamie2k9

1. Having only crossed railway tracks at busy locations where they are automated, it appears a vehicle could get into the space either side of the track and close the gate behind them, completely cross, open the other side, move out and close it behind them?
Rather than fully automatic, there must be some option to make this easier to deal with, so that its more likely it will be observed correctly.
I still dont understand why there aren't lights of some sort to warn of an oncoming train and/or stop lights?

Explains how to operate such crossings. They are fitting a light type indicator at some crossings

https://www.irishrail.ie/about-us/rail-bridge-heights-and-level-crossings/rail-level-crossings
______________

According to this the new warning lights should be operational this month at the crossing and there are 24 types of these crossings on the network.

https://www.midwestradio.ie/index.php/news/38381-irish-rail-has-no-plans-to-install-automated-level-crossing-at-notorious-castlebar-rail-crossing

Markcheese

I assume on of the main problems is cars don't slow down for the crossings . The sightlines seemed fine ,
If we assume that the public aren't going to use the gates properly, to then speed bumps either side would slow cars down , and maybe flashing lights as cars approach the track..( to remind them to look ) .

IE 222

whisky_galore wrote: »

€1000 fine, good luck catching anyone for that without cctv or personnel on the ground.

It would be a worthy investment getting some sort of mobile CCTV device as long as the courts issue the fines.

They should look at some sort of system where you feed €20 into a machine to release the gate and then its returned to you on the other side once the gate is locked.

interlocked

This is one of two notorious crossings either side of Castlebar,the other is Knockapunta, scene of many a close miss or in one case,fatal.

The issue with these crossings is to a large degree,complacency. If you are approaching this crossing for the first time,chances are you'll stop, get out, check both sides, drive over it cautiously, looking both ways and generally have the fear of god instilled in you. If on the other hand, you're local and crossing it multiple times a day, over time you get dulled to the dangers, a simple thing can distract you,the radio, talking to someone in the car, kids in the back etc.

In 2007, Irish Rail decided to do a sting operation on this crossing and another outside Athenry, they closed the gates,parked a van adjacent and took photos of all the people stopping, opening the gates and driving through,omitting to shut them each time.

They brought a court case where the defendants argued that they had never seen the gates closed before and were unaware of their obligation. The judge, Mary Devins agreed and dismissed the case.

https://www.mayonews.ie/news/20088-train-crash-at-knockaphunta-again


In the other case, in Athenry, the judge convicted the defendants and large fines were imposed.

In light of this, Irish Rail proposed installing bridges at the locations in conjunction with the local authority but it ran into logistical and funding issues and they remain unresolved today.

Ironically the company has made huge strides in eliminating disused or obsolete crossings in recent years,many of which were designed to service farm holdings divided by the railway. They were nearly 300 crossings between Athlone and Westport but a large number of these are eliminated,don't have the numbers to hand.

However the two outside Castlebar remain some of the most glaring outliers on the network.

whisky_galore

IE 222 wrote: »

It would be a worthy investment getting some sort of mobile CCTV device as long as the courts issue the fines.

They should look at some sort of system where you feed €20 into a machine to release the gate and then its returned to you on the other side once the gate is locked.

That sounds really cumbersome and likely to break down or be broken.

IE 222

whisky_galore wrote: »

That sounds really cumbersome and likely to break down or be broken.

That's the idea. If operating the gates correctly it wouldn't add much more than 15 seconds onto the correct procedure. Nobody is going to drive off and leave money behind.

whisky_galore

IE 222 wrote: »

That's the idea. If operating the gates correctly it wouldn't add much more than 15 seconds onto the correct procedure. Nobody is going to drive off and leave money behind.

And nobody is ever going to bring this idea to market.

91wx763

interlocked wrote: »

This is one of two notorious crossings either side of Castlebar,the other is Knockapunta, scene of many a close miss or in one case,fatal.

The issue with these crossings is to a large degree,complacency. If you are approaching this crossing for the first time,chances are you'll stop, get out, check both sides, drive over it cautiously, looking both ways and generally have the fear of god instilled in you. If on the other hand, you're local and crossing it multiple times a day, over time you get dulled to the dangers, a simple thing can distract you,the radio, talking to someone in the car, kids in the back etc.

In 2007, Irish Rail decided to do a sting operation on this crossing and another outside Athenry, they closed the gates,parked a van adjacent and took photos of all the people stopping, opening the gates and driving through,omitting to shut them each time.

They brought a court case where the defendants argued that they had never seen the gates closed before and were unaware of their obligation. The judge, Mary Devins agreed and dismissed the case.

https://www.mayonews.ie/news/20088-train-crash-at-knockaphunta-again


In the other case, in Athenry, the judge convicted the defendants and large fines were imposed.

In light of this, Irish Rail proposed installing bridges at the locations in conjunction with the local authority but it ran into logistical and funding issues and they remain unresolved today.

Ironically the company has made huge strides in eliminating disused or obsolete crossings in recent years,many of which were designed to service farm holdings divided by the railway. They were nearly 300 crossings between Athlone and Westport but a large number of these are eliminated,don't have the numbers to hand.

However the two outside Castlebar remain some of the most glaring outliers on the network.

I still can't get me head around how an unsafe act, definitely contrary to any safety at work statute or law is allowed to be deemed acceptable by even a judge, let alone those in the industry who could be potentially found guilty of manslaughter.

Say front facing CCTV shows a loco or unit passing an open gate and on the back working it strikes something ?

metrovick001

Ireland in a nutshell...."The judge, Mary Devins agreed and dismissed the case"

Isambard

metrovick001 wrote: »

Ireland in a nutshell...."The judge, Mary Devins agreed and dismissed the case"

the Judge clearly didn't understand the issue

Markcheese

Would bump gates work ?( Slowly nudge the gate and it opens ,drive through ,and over the line,bump the far side ,gate closes automatically..
Or just cattle grids ... And flashing lights on a sign reminding people to look ..

L1011

The slow speed you need to navigate them with would be a risk on a crossing

whisky_galore

Markcheese wrote: »

Would bump gates work ?( Slowly nudge the gate and it opens ,drive through ,and over the line,bump the far side ,gate closes automatically..
Or just cattle grids ... And flashing lights on a sign reminding people to look ..

People with new cars don't want anything to touch them or to bump into anything. And then there's agri tractors that will just smash into them. No gate would put up with that punishment and I'm sure they'd find a way of jamming it open with a stone or a block anyhow.

Flashing lights are a nonsense, people will try and chance it like they do at traffic lights.

91wx763

This is an extract from a UK Network Rail staff information service from Monday-

Advised by LCM, he has imposed a 20 mph ESR on the Up Main and a 40 mph ESR on the Down Main due to repeated crossing misuse by unauthorised users at Sharpes UWC (SWM2 143m 15c) between Chepstow and Caldicot.
Newport PW do not have staff to be able to arrange installation of the ESR boards until Wednesday at the earliest so the signaller will caution trains over the crossing, the Pontypool MOM will be sent to man the crossing when available.

LCM- Level Crossing Manager
ESR- Emergency Speed restriction
UWC- User Worked Crossing
SWM2- Engineers line reference and location in miles and chains
PW- Permanent Way (employees)
MOM- Mobile Operations Manager

3 days and it's carried out as an urgent risk reduction measure. But it's allowed go on for years on IÉ ???

blackbox

There are lots of level crossings in rural USA. I believe that if you get hit by a train and survive, you will be sued for damages by the train company.

JustAThought

i’ve seen parts of this country ruined with speed ramps, aluminium poles, multiple signs, bollards and all kids of street clutter - yet the feckless will ignore all regardless of the cost and effort to out them in and the inconvenience to everyone else.

In fairness I’ve never seen - or imagined - anything as hillbilly as this in Ireland - were all the accidents out of countrys or tourists?

+1 for flashing lights & motion triggered cctv on the gates and massive fines - we have the technology to do things like this now - why should the taxpayer be burdened by the feckless and irresponsible. A few claims for the repairs off their insurance should put them off the road forever.

Darwin Awards for repeat offenders - because they’re worth it!

Melanchthon

Isambard wrote: »

the Judge clearly didn't understand the issue

interlocked wrote: »

In 2007, Irish Rail decided to do a sting operation on this crossing and another outside Athenry, they closed the gates,parked a van adjacent and took photos of all the people stopping, opening the gates and driving through,omitting to shut them each time.

They brought a court case where the defendants argued that they had never seen the gates closed before and were unaware of their obligation. The judge, Mary Devins agreed and dismissed the case.

The name of that judge should be familiar in relation to a number of controversies, used to be a webpage documenting the likely reason for this but contents seem to be down due to a legal request, sure posters can guess why what activity a rural judge of her age is partaking in that would lead to be very erratic in terms of judgments and pronouncements

91wx763

Melanchthon wrote: »

The name of that judge should be familiar in relation to a number of controversies, used to be a webpage documenting the likely reason for this but contents seem to be down due to a legal request, sure posters can guess why what activity a rural judge of her age is partaking in that would lead to be very erratic in terms of judgments and pronouncements

https://politics.ie/threads/gardai-wiped-judge-mary-devins-licence-dail-told.201755/

Jamie2k9

91wx763 wrote: »

This is an extract from a UK Network Rail staff information service from Monday-

LCM- Level Crossing Manager
ESR- Emergency Speed restriction
UWC- User Worked Crossing
SWM2- Engineers line reference and location in miles and chains
PW- Permanent Way (employees)
MOM- Mobile Operations Manager

3 days and it's carried out as an urgent risk reduction measure. But it's allowed go on for years on IÉ ???

Double track and much busier line by the sounds of it. If this was Dublin-Cork I don't think these issues would be let slip.

The Cork crossing project is not urgent and should not be going ahead when there are other areas that need improvements. No safety or speed improvements will materialise from it.

Half barriers should never have been phased out in favour of CCTV crossings. There was a few here before?

ArmaniJeanss

Roscommon incident today.

https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/0825/1161193-level-crossing/

Can't blame the driver, barrier came out of nowhere. (/sarc)