The Hobby Horses of Belief (and assorted hazards)

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123132271#Comment_123132271

There's waaaayyy more to it than that, P. The equation of a sports team with a religion is nonsensical. Nobody was ever threatened with going to hell for supporting the wrong sports team.

Peregrinus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123173096#Comment_123173096

You clearly haven't met some of the sports fans that I know.

But, yeah, you're right. There is clearly more to it that that. But the fact remains that, as I said, churches and sporting bodies have a common interest in learning how to manage the fallout from sex abuse cases. Where's the lie?

Igotadose

#MAGA,ftw. https://www.pillarcatholic.com/p/visa-program-used-by-thousands-of

Nuns gotta leave the US. Go, CFTrump!

smacl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123238734#Comment_123238734

The comments also make for an interesting read. Trump seems to be attacking so many different large groups at the same time he could end up very isolated. While the conservative Christians that support him tend not to be Catholic, I'd imagine any attacks on the church will go down like a lead balloon.

Igotadose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123239720#Comment_123239720

Deport them under armed guard on military transports and make sure there are photos on the front page of the Catholic Reporter! Woot!

Hotblack Desiato

Is this the first year in living memory there are shag all articles about Ash Wednesday and not even a single boards thread about it?

The square root of shag all people care about it any more. For those who do, fine, and nobody would have any problem with that whatsoever if that religion didn't continue to control 89% of our taxpayer-funded primary schools.

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/munster/arid-41588809.html

Bishop Fintan Gavin hailed the success of the Maranatha 2025 event in Cork City Hall which was attended by 500 students from 20 secondary schools

I wonder how much choice they had in the matter.

There certainly wouldn't be 500 there if this wasn't organised via the schools they are required to attend

Hotblack Desiato

Apparently telling people they're going to burn in hell is "humour".

Old story but I came across it via an unlikely series of internet links.

https://archive.ph/20130703160707/http://www.3news.co.nz/DB-to-buy-church-a-new-billboard/tabid/423/articleID/159193/Default.aspx

NZ brewery had a long series of ads over many years with a phrase followed by a sarcastic "Yeah right." (is there such a thing as a non-sarcastic "yeah right"?)

Church decided it'd be a wheeze to erect a billboard saying :

Atheists have nothing to worry about! Yeah Right

Well that's definitely going to prod me to reconsider my philosophical world view…

Brewery sued and an amicable settlement was reached, the brewery offered to get their adversing agency to come up with some cool slogans for god. 👍️

Reverend Jim Wallace was presented with the agency-developed concept yesterday, which included the phrases "God tweets too. Just look up in the trees" and "God, the ultimate search engine".

🤮

I've always got a reply back when using a search engine, even if it's a crappy reply…

The church had since taken down the contentious billboard. "We are not in the business of fighting copyright law. We are not here to make enemies, we are here to tell people about Jesus and to do it with a sense of humour."

You guys are gonna burn in hell, hahahaha! That sort of humour.

These people really do not have any idea how they are being complete pricks. In their minds, pretty much anything is justified if it "spreads the word" 🙄

Another slogan the brewery used was

"Our father in Heaven, Tamaki be your name – Yeah right"

For those who are not finger-on-the-pulse with the NZ extremist-evangelical / cult scene, Brian Tamaki seems like a very pleasant individual to make one's acquaintance with. [Caution - post may contain sarcasm]

In July 2008 TV3 broadcast "Inside New Zealand: The Life of Brian", a documentary by reporter Ross Jennings.

Talk about an open goal 🤣

Hotblack Desiato

"I've heard about those cults, Ted":

https://www.rte.ie/news/2025/0330/1504800-society-of-st-pius-x-derry/

The Catholic Bishop of Derry has warned parishioners that someone posing as an ordained priest who is part of a breakaway fundamentalist faction of the church is conducting illicit Masses in the diocese.

SSPX, the Society of St Pius X, was founded in 1970 by a Bishop and group of priests who believed the Catholic Church was becoming too modernist. [Yeah, right]

In 2012 a much more fundamentalist breakaway faction, SSPX Resistance, was formed.

…

Bishop McKeown said he "wanted to make people aware" that members of the group who are ministering mass "may not have gone through vetting and safeguarding procedures, which is a legal requirement, as well as the fact that they reject everything to do with the Roman church at the present time".

"They would refer to the Mass in English as the Protestant Mass," he said.

Fr Michael Canny, parish priest for the Waterside parish in Co Derry, said it was important to warn parishioners that people may be dressing as priests and purporting to be priests, but are not.

Bit rich of the RCC to be pointing the safeguarding finger, n'est-ce pas?

robindch

Oops, Gardaí probe safeguarding issues following complaint about fundamentalist Catholic group

A Garda complaint has been made about a fundamentalist Catholic group based in Cork, which has allowed a defrocked priest to say mass despite alleged safeguard breaches. The Society of St Pius Resistance, a splinter group of the controversial SSPX which was founded in 1970 by a former bishop who clashed with the Vatican over reforms, has operated from a farmhouse in Drinagh, Co Cork. Gardaí have confirmed that enquiries into the group are ongoing on foot of a complaint which alleges safeguarding breaches in relation to the defrocked priest. It is understood that at least one safeguarding organisation has also referred the matter to Tusla. The Irish Examiner further understands that the defrocked priest is not currently in Ireland.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-41603506.html

Igotadose

Fcuk Richard Williamson's group. Just another bunch of Xtians that rely on their antisemitism to recruit. Loathsome bunch.

robindch

In entirely unrelated news, The Recusant, one of the inhouse magazines of the SSPX, reported in 2015 concerning one Fr Stephen Abraham, who was reported by a number of SSPX websites some years ago to have visited Ireland. See page 14 - "Concerning Fr. Stephen Abraham, by Greg Taylor". Item (14) on page 16 may be of interest to Gardai.

https://www.stmaryskssspxmc.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/The_Recusant_Issue_31_Nov_Dec_2015-Copy.pdf

Hotblack Desiato

Don't wanna give them the click… Wayback Machine has it though

https://web.archive.org/web/20170225124214/https%3A//www.stmaryskssspxmc.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/The_Recusant_Issue_31_Nov_Dec_2015-Copy.pdf

14. When rumours of a very serious nature concerning Fr. Abraham began to circulate in the early summer of 2015, two faithful who attended his Mass in Broadstairs decided to ask Fr. Abraham directly and in a face to face conversation, if nothing else so as to give him a chance to defend himself in the event that the rumours were malicious and unfounded. They therefore arranged a private interview with him at the house in Broadstairs. At this private interview, Fr. Abraham admitted to them that it was true that he had been the object of two separate accusations, and that the accusations were what had led to his suspension. Furthermore, he admitted that the accusations were true and that he was guilty of what he had been accused. He also said that he was not ‘cured’ of the temptation, that he still laboured under it, and that such incidents could happen again in the future. To one of the two faithful, a family father, he said that if ever the man were to catch him looking at his children in an unusual way, he was to give him a stern look or a sign so as to make him snap out of it.

Hotblack Desiato

Article about an autocratic repressive regime's deal with an autocratic repressive regime…

https://www.irishtimes.com/world/asia-pacific/2025/04/05/we-try-to-assist-the-seed-of-belief-popes-deal-with-communist-party-draws-criticism-from-some-catholics-2/?

The "unofficial church" with bishops approved by the Vatican but not the CCP is being gradually replaced by the "official church" where bishop candidates are selected by the CCP (!) and, since the 2018 agreement, approved by the Vatican - the Vatican can decline to approve but has never done so so far.

Meanwhile the Vatican maintains diplomatic relations with Taiwan rather than Beijing - a sticking point.

Hotblack Desiato

40 years ago this summer. Mad stuff

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9uNpszPV7s

The bishop complaining that "genuine religion" might be brought into "disrepute" is comically ironic though

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.rte.ie/news/dublin/2025/0423/1509158-closure-of-islamic-centre-after-unprecedented-incident/

The Islamic Cultural Centre in Clonskeagh in Dublin has been closed to the public after an incident at the weekend.

RTÉ News understands that it occurred as a result of internal issues.

A notice posted on the gates said that the centre will remain closed until a full investigation is carried out and it reviews and implements robust safety and security protocols.

The notice said the incident was "unprecedented and distressing" and left it with no choice but to temporarily close the south Dublin centre and the mosque to the public.

Odd one this.

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.irishtimes.com/crime-law/2025/04/26/concerns-raised-over-alleged-financial-irregularities-and-links-with-extremist-ideology-at-dublin-mosque/

The United Arab Emirates-backed foundation that funds Ireland’s largest mosque has sent investigators to examine alleged financial irregularities at the centre.

The Al Maktoum Foundation, which provides about €2.5 million a year for the running of the Islamic Cultural Centre of Ireland (ICCI) in Clonskeagh, South Dublin, has also raised concerns about alleged links between some of the centre’s members and extremist ideology.

On Friday, a large security operation, involving gardaí and dozens of security guards, was in place around the centre, which also houses a national school and a creche.

Gardaí have received a report that a canister containing petrol was thrown over the walls of the premises.

The Al Maktoum Foundation said it was concerned about potential attempts to “forcibly take control of the premises”.

There have been several alleged threats against officials in the centre. An altercation which took place at a meeting there last Saturday was broken up by gardaí.

Concerns have been raised about the management of charitable donations, including funds raised for Gaza and the use of cash payments. The foundation has also raised concerns about links between officials and the Muslim Brotherhood, an international Islamist organisation which the UAE alleges is a terrorist organisation.

Hotblack Desiato

interesting

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/2025/05/02/double-standards-aplenty-in-sport-when-punishing-religious-or-political-statements/

Cody Gakpo did just that last weekend with his celebration in Liverpool’s 5-1 win over Tottenham, and he was subsequently reminded of the English Football Association’s rules. After scoring, the 25-year-old Netherlands international took off his shirt to reveal a vest that bore the message “I belong to Jesus”.

He did it again at full-time as the Liverpool players celebrated.

Sport, politics and religion have always had a complex relationship and it seems certain that Gakpo will suffer only a “reprimand” by the Football Association, having been shown a yellow card by the match referee.

Any player who takes their shirt off would get a yellow. Slogan or no slogan.

But

The International Football Association Board (IFAB) laws of the game prohibit demonstrations of faith such as that of Gakpo. The law says: “Equipment must not have any political, religious or personal slogans, statements or images.”

“Players must not reveal undergarments that show political, religious, personal slogans, statements or images, or advertising other than the manufacturer’s logo. For any offence the player and/or the team will be sanctioned by the competition organiser, national football association or by Fifa.”

Gakpo will not be punished for his slogan. And before him, neither was Crystal Palace captain Marc Guehi, who wore an “I love Jesus” armband against Newcastle last December and a “Jesus loves you” armband against Ipswich shortly after. But there was no consequences for the rule breaking because culturally there was no willingness to do so.

But others have received punishments.

In 2018 Pep Guardiola was fined £20,000 (€23,530) and warned regarding his future conduct after accepting a Football Association charge of wearing a “political message”.

The count related to the Manchester City manager’s wearing a yellow ribbon in support of imprisoned Catalan politicians during his side’s FA Cup defeat at Wigan Athletic in February of that year.

Going further back to 28 years ago Robbie Fowler, the former Liverpool and England striker, was fined 2,000 Swiss Francs (€2,132) by European governing body Uefa in March 1997 for his show of support for locked out dock workers.

BTW I'm not looking for the guy to be punished. I just think it's a really weird thing to do. You worship a god. Fine. I don't know why you feel the need to tell everyone. It seems something is lacking in your life if you protest too much.

Peregrinus

BTW I'm not looking for the guy to be punished. I just think it's a really weird thing to do. You worship a god. Fine. I don't know why you feel the need to tell everyone. It seems something is lacking in your life if you protest too much.

Well, there are faiths for which witnessing is a religious duty, and Christianity is one of these. But this particular form of witnessing looks fairly tokenistic.

Hotblack Desiato

"Have you heard about our lord Jesus?"

"Well I was brought up a Catholic"

"No no I mean the proper Jesus, our one"

Hotblack Desiato

This reminds me of my only encounter with a latter-day saint on a mission, about 10 years ago (even though they have a church or meeting place or whatever they call it, within 500m of a very busy shopping centre)

I was waiting for the pedestrian lights to change (I'm not sure this is something that Americans understand) when I got the "do you know Jesus" from a very smartly attired young man. The words were barely out of his mouth when the green man appeared and I escaped with gusto across the road. As most Irish people probably would, I felt offended at being asked such a 'personal question' in a public place - we are well trained to not speak about such things except in private lest we offend, or in certain counties place ourselves at real risk of physical harm.

Thinking back, I'd have liked to ask the poor sod a few questions - perhaps played the devout RC 😉 and put it up to him why someone like that would entertain the idea of 'converting' to a somewhat different version of the christian myth

The whole atheist thing would probably have blown the poor fecker's mind altogether 😛

I do wonder what the conversion / deconversion rate is with these lads. They can't win all that many, and no doubt plenty of them realise it's all a load of old fanny when they're pointlessly out and about preaching it…

Igotadose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123418838#Comment_123418838

From the one's I've known, this is a cult that relies on economic pressure, as well as social, to succeed. Grooming starts early. Children are enveloped in the church - Scouts (boy scouts, girl scouts in the US) are to be joined by all children. Besides official church services on the weekend, there are regularly scheduled 'family nights' during the week where everyone participates in games/dinners/shooting practice in some cases.

Tithing is important, the more you give, the better you do. Status is given to large families, all children are in their church and the church forms an important part of their economic life. If you need a job and have a family, the church will find you one. Parents gift houses as wedding gifts, with the implicit 'you will have more children' attached. The mission thing is more indoctrination, too. Women have very low status in their org, and their wedding ceremonies and vows, although secret, are all about obediance from the wife to the husband and the church.

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123418838#Comment_123418838

Years ago, a friend answered the door to three of them and on a whim invited them back at a specified time, with the agreement he'd invite a few friends.

there were three or four of us and three of them, and it was all very polite. My friend had been open enough to let them know beforehand that none of us were religious, but looking back it was a little insincere because we knew we were wasting their time. We were probably 19 or 20 and I think they were a similar age.

Hotblack Desiato

MHO is that life is too short to voluntarily engage with that sort of thing…

We get the JWs at the door every few months, always the same ones who appear to be locally based, I don't even open the door to them

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/2025/05/22/church-live-streaming-likely-to-lead-to-more-defamation-actions-evangelicals-warn/

Defamation actions arising from the live-streaming of religious ceremonies are “likely to happen again”, Nick Park, executive director of Evangelical Alliance Ireland (EAI) has said.

His remarks follow a successful action by Warren Walsh who sued the Cornerstone Slieve Bloom Church in Tullamore, Co Offaly, for defamation arising from comments made by his daughter during a live-streamed Baptism ceremony there.

“If it happened once, it’s likely to happen again,” Mr Park said. “Churches would be perceived as easy targets.”

..

He felt evangelical churches, such as the hundreds represented by the EAI, are particularly vulnerable to legal actions in live-streaming situations because, during services, “people are encouraged to make contributions which are not scripted”.

He recalled how in 2016 he was called as a witness in a Belfast court case, where an evangelical pastor who said Islam was “satanic” and “spawned in hell” was charged with making “grossly offensive” remarks about the Muslim religion.

Belfast Magistrates Court ruled that Pastor James McConnell had made “offensive” comments but they did not reach the “high threshold” of being “grossly offensive”.

..

In the Tullamore case, the father concerned was awarded €14,400, with the Cornerstone Slieve Bloom Church deemed responsible “for 40 per cent of that”, Mr Park said.

Yikes…

Hotblack Desiato

We can all breathe a massive sigh of relief now, the nation has been saved.

https://www.rte.ie/news/2025/0524/1514700-aontu-politics/

they also voted for a ban on "the introduction of Sharia law" or "community courts of any religion" in this country.

It wouldn't be like them to whip up hatred and fear based on nothing. That's not how they operate atall atall.

Hotblack Desiato

Plus they voted to ban any non-Irish flags on public buildings. So no Ukraine flage and not even any EU flags. A pro-Putin agenda if there ever was one.

Irish Times interviewed three delegates at the conference, without prompting two out of three said they joined because they were "pro-life"

Hotblack Desiato

Well instead of rowing behind closed doors, they're now rowing in the High Court - progress I suppose

https://www.irishtimes.com/crime-law/courts/2025/05/28/dispute-over-control-of-clonskeagh-islamic-centre-reaches-high-court/

A dispute over the alleged unlawful appointment of new directors to a company behind the Islamic Cultural Centre of Ireland has led to the month-long closure of the mosque in Clonskeagh, Dublin, the High Court heard.

Mr Justice Brian Cregan on Wednesday said he will likely make orders under company law regarding the appointments if five named new directors of the Al Maktoum Foundation CLG, which owns the cultural centre, do not respond to the lawsuit.

The case has been brought by Dr Abdel Basset Elsayed, a Meath-based medical consultant and director of the company since 2012, and secretary since 2022.

The Al Maktoum in-house counsel, Joseph Sallabi, told the judge that in August 2023, there were only three directors, one of whom was Dr Elsayed.

One of the three resigned, and Mirza El Sayegh, the third director, appointed five new directors and took control of the company, he said, adding that this was without Dr Elsayed’s knowledge and without board approval.

Also…

https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/social-affairs/2025/05/03/inside-dublin-islamic-centre-pressure-on-senior-official-to-step-down-amid-claims-over-staff-links-to-banned-group/

Dr Ali Selim was the centre’s spokesman for more than 20 years until last September, when he stood down. He said this was not related to current events but he was not free to talk about the reasons as “we have a non-disclosure agreement, so we can’t talk about it”.

Two weeks ago he was appointed manager for media affairs at the centre by the Al Maktoum Foundation.

Regarding the possible relationship between the Muslim Brotherhood – which is banned as a terrorist organisation in countries such the UAE, where the Al Maktoum Foundation is based, as well as in Egypt and Saudi Arabia but not in Ireland – Dr Selim says he has “never been a member” and has “never attended any of their meetings”.

As to whether other staff at the centre could be members, he responds: “It is very hard to answer this question. None of them has ever expressed to me that he is a member of the group but, again, they never say.”

Halawa came to Ireland from Egypt in 1995 having studied theology at Al-Azhar University in Cairo and gained his doctorate in Islamic studies at the International Islamic University in Islamabad, Pakistan. His son Ibrahim was released from jail in Egypt in October 2017 after being held there, untried, for more than four years.

robindch

Things got a little warm for Mayo Pride after somebody, in the runup to last weekend's pride event in Westport, posted an image of a Child of Drag - oopsies!

https://www.thejournal.ie/child-of-drag-mayo-6722851-Jun2025/

Luckily, Independent Ireland TD Ken O’Flynn popped up to make things much easier for everybody. The offensive artwork is this and I await a strong note from the endlessly cheerful Mr O'Flynn.