The Hobby Horses of Belief (and assorted hazards)

robindch

I hope nobody comes to regret this decision.

Had to explain this to a few out-of-towners, that following Ireland's colonial period where the police were viewed as the strong arm of a foreign power, the newly independent Irish government decided, perhaps without much debate (?), that the new country's new police force would be less peace-enforcers and more peace-makers - trying to get people to climb down off their high horses, rather than shoot them off. Since then, unfortunately, the corrosive effects over the last twenty years of social media, disinformation and mental illness have created a new class of organized nutcases for whom the old policies no longer work and the government and the police are somewhat at a loss as to what to do. I'm not sure if the new hate-speech legislation will help, but it may be a step in the right direction:

https://www.irishtimes.com/politics/2023/12/05/qa-what-are-the-proposed-new-hate-crime-laws-and-why-the-delay/

Hotblack Desiato

When my 13 year old son turned off his PlayStation the 'smart' TV went back to its home screen -

YouTube recommends - Tucker Carlson interviews Vladimir Putin

I mean, what in the actual fûck?????

Igotadose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121752314#Comment_121752314

Probably something Uncle Vlad paid for on Youtube.

robindch

"Turkmenistan Conducting Virginity Tests To 'Evaluate Teenagers' Morality'"

No public explanation was offered by the government on why the gynecological tests are being carried out, but the Balkanabat-based worker suspects the tests are linked to a reported rise in teenage pregnancies in the province in recent months. Six such cases were recorded just in Balkanabat, he said. "This information reached the Education Ministry, which issued a severe reprimand to the head of the Balkan regional education department as a result. Right after that, [provincial authorities] started checks for ‘moral purity’ in big cities,” he said.

https://www.rferl.org/a/turkmenistan-virginity-tests-morality-security-services/32814240.html

robindch

Given how much asylum-seekers are demonized in the UK and its print media, it's hard to know what to make of this Times report into alleged abuse of the system by people who claim to be christian converts fleeing persecution:

https://twitter.com/matt_dathan/status/1756986437650497959

Hotblack Desiato

2000 people annoyed that other people might have been enjoying themselves:

https://www.newstalk.com/news/petition-against-profane-silent-disco-in-canterbury-cathedral-gets-2000-signatures-1641663

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121759592#Comment_121759592

"we would not want something like a disco with alcohol and profane lyrics to be played." Is he aware of the concept of a silent disco?

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-68277166

"God is in control" - well he's doing a pretty shít job then isn't he!

WTF does that preacher look so bizarrely happy?

Hotblack Desiato

They appear to be getting more desperate.

Odhinn

This crock of shite appeared in my facebook feed

https://consciousconcert.ie/?fbclid=IwAR03Me9g9J8VCmfhk3aB3zVpNzTC7sT2U-hn3k3eRaAbvxpMWXI3mb-OK3M

"Known as the grandmother of western Breatharianism, Jasmuheen has been nourished by prana – what she now calls Source Feeding – for the past 31 years after her physical system was converted to Pranic Nourishment in 1993 via the powerful 21 day Process. This program has now been upgraded twice since then for clarity, safety and educational purposes.

Jasmuheen is the author of 42 books that are published in 20 languages, of which seven of these are dedicated to this topic of alternate nutrition. “Pranic living is much more than a way to be at greater choice regarding how we can nourish our physical bodies, for it allows us to free ourselves from all human hungers including emotional and mental hungers as well"

ohnonotgmail

I love this bit

Odhinn

Hopefully both amendments will go through, showing just how increasingly irrelevant they are.

"Ireland’s Catholic bishops have advised the electorate to vote No in the two referendums next month.

In a statement to be read at Masses on Sunday, they say that the proposed family amendment is likely to weaken the incentive for young people to marry while the second proposed care amendment would abolish all reference to motherhood in the Constitution."

https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/2024/02/25/catholic-bishops-call-for-no-vote-in-both-march-referendums/

Hotblack Desiato

Victory for the against everything brigade, I'm afraid.

In other news, a Christian tells a Jew to come to Jesus:

https://www.irishtimes.com/world/middle-east/2024/03/09/biden-predicts-come-to-jesus-meeting-with-netanyahu-over-gaza-aid/

In a grave symptom of two continents divided by a common language, I'd no feckin' idea what he was on about.

Wiktionary (which, incidentally, is great for looking up words in non-English languages) :

Verb

come to Jesus (third-person singular simple present comes to Jesus, present participle coming to Jesus, simple past came to Jesus, past participle come to Jesus)

(idiomatic, Christianity) To experience or display a conversion or recommitment to Christianity or to undergo a related ritual, especially public confession of one's sins or weaknesses.

(idiomatic, US) To become committed or display commitment to a cause.

(idiomatic, US) To have a sudden important realization.

Peregrinus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121876216#Comment_121876216

The Australian media, reporting on this conversation, provided a helpful translation. Apparently, if they are to be believed, a "come-to-Jesus conversation" is an American idiom meaning a blunt conversation.

Igotadose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121877763#Comment_121877763

Confirmed by this native speaker of US English:) Still it was clumsy. I recall saying something on a thread about it being 'choke a horse prices' and had to translate :)

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121877973#Comment_121877973

Choke a horse?

Igotadose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121877996#Comment_121877996

Slang for excessively large amount. Choke a horse prices - unreasonably high. "That pill's big enough to choke a horse!". Also 'horse pills' for very large pills.

Hotblack Desiato

Disgraceful comments from the bishop of Rome on Ukraine:

https://www.irishtimes.com/world/europe/2024/03/10/pope-francis-criticised-for-his-white-flag-comments-on-possible-negotiations-to-end-war-in-ukraine/

Pope Francis has been criticised in Ukraine and by some of its allies for suggesting it should have “the courage of the white flag” and seek negotiations to end its war with Russia’s invasion force.

“I think that the strongest one is the one who looks at the situation, thinks about the people and has the courage of the white flag and negotiates,” the pope said in interview with Swiss media last month that was published in part over the weekend.

“The word negotiate is a courageous word. When you see that you are defeated, that things are not going well, you have to have the courage to negotiate,” he added, noting that Turkey had offered to host peace talks – and replying that “I am here” when asked if he would mediate.

Russia says negotiations are impossible unless Ukraine accepts the occupation of a swathe of its territory and other conditions that would limit its sovereignty. 

Popey might not be in the best position to offer such advice, after all I don't think the RCC has ever had an unsatisfactory negotiation with a fascist dictator... they're quite fond of 'em actually.

The pope (87) has frustrated Kyiv and its allies by failing to clearly blame Moscow for the war and by suggesting at times that Nato provoked Russian president Vladimir Putin by accepting membership requests from countries located close to Russia.

I didn't know this. What a c**t. 😡 There are very good reasons why so many of Russia's neighbours joined NATO the first chance they got. The head of an artificial statelet created on the whim of Mussolini thinks he can pontificate on the fate of actual countries. (yes, pontificate, no pun intended etc)

robindch

I didn't know this.

Russian propaganda travels well in south America, where many people are suspicious of the USA, so the false view that "NATO/EU/USA provoked Russia" is commonly believed.

Frank's comments didn't go down well in Ukraine which told the Vatican to show "the courage of the white flag" to Satan.

Hangdogroad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121786022#Comment_121786022

I saw a FB friend of a friend posting quotes from this one, such as the below claptrap. The mind boggles!

"Racism does not naturally exist, it was & still is a carefully crafted, curated & propagated method to promote fear, hopelessness, anger & frustration. It is harnessed to give the illusion of separation, a mere tool for divide & conquer. It is introduced into societies at certain times to create certain media sensations, evoking certain predictable reactions from the public. It is used as predictive programming. 

The racist events that are promoted in the media are orchestrated, staged ritual murders, not by a random racist killer in an act of hate, but of a calculated organisation with a larger agenda at play, with the intention of provocation, pushing your buttons, creating an international wave of unrest, creating the illusion that we are broken, divided, at war. 

You see, we are not broken, divided & at war. We are holistic, united & interconnected. We are heart centred loving beings that care for one another & all beings in our environment. No amount of propaganda can take this truth away. We are pure living loving light beings who are currently undergoing unimaginable light upgrades & transformations. We are not racist & we never, ever were. Do not be blinded by the false flashing lights of delusion & illusion. Do not feed into these fear mongering game-plans. We are not racist, we are inclusive, not exclusive. We are love, acceptance, compassion, kindness & joy. We are SOVEREIGN. We are UNITED. We are the People. We are INCLUSIVE. We shall not be divided by propaganda. Our true essence is L O V E 💞

Unity in diversity 

A❤️HO

SWR 

Photo: kittens living under the sink, 3 wks old😺🐯 #unityindiversity #inclusivity #unity #sovereign #divinefeminine #divinemasculine #racism"

Igotadose

Happy Good Friday. After the brutal murder we'll have the procession as usual.

https://apnews.com/article/mexico-violence-mob-taxco-holy-week-f48c9aa7cad7141b2f6025fba6e216fc

Hotblack Desiato

From Wikipedia:

[Actor and Trumpist, Gary] Busey cites the motorcycle accident [in which he received permanent brain damage], as well as a 1995 cocaine overdose, as events that strengthened his Christian faith.

Odhinn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121987526#Comment_121987526

Ellen Gould White (née Harmon; November 26, 1827 – July 16, 1915) was an American author and co-founder of the Seventh-day Adventist Church. Along with other Adventist leaders such as Joseph Bates and her husband James White,
she was instrumental within a small group of early Adventists who
formed what became known as the Seventh-day Adventist Church. White is
considered a leading figure in American vegetarian history.[2] Smithsonian named her among the "100 Most Significant Americans of All Time".[3]

At the age of nine, White was hit in the face with a stone.[12] This occurred while she was living in Portland, Maine, and probably attending the Brackett Street School.[11] This, she said, started her conversion:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ellen_G._White

Odhinn

"An Indian actor running for election as a candidate for the ruling party has been forced to deny eating beef."

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-68761734

(Beef isn't code for anything)

robindch

🐮🐮

Hotblack Desiato

She tasted a Big Mac once, but didn't inhale.

Hotblack Desiato

https://newsroom.co.nz/2024/04/10/how-christchurch-got-sucked-into-an-eye-wateringly-expensive-cathedral-rebuild/

$248m bill proposed for rebuilding of 2011 earthquake-damaged Christchurch Anglican cathedral in NZ.

Anglican church says it doesn't have the money, cathedral was vastly under-insured, government offers $25m, council $10m, proposals for a scaled down modern and much cheaper building strongly opposed by traditionalists, but the traditionalists can't come up with the cash either.

Then someone proposed that the RCC cathedral (also severely damaged) and the Anglican one both be replaced by a single, modern, cheaper building. Shock! Horror!

Meanwhile church attendances in NZ continue to dwindle to almost nothing…

robindch

$248m bill proposed for rebuilding of 2011 earthquake-damaged Christchurch Anglican cathedral in NZ.

Without wishing to seem to kick a little church when it's down, I think it's perhaps useful to point out that the "cathedral" in Christchurch is actually quite small and one can only speculate as to why costs have ballooned to around €140 million.

Peregrinus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122008479#Comment_122008479

Couple of points:

First, it's not really the church that you're kicking here. All along the church's position has been that they didn't want to rebuild the cathedral as it was; their preference was to replace it with a modern, fit-for-purpose cathedral, which would be much cheaper. The church never saw the maintenance and restoration of the city's architectural heritage as being core to its mission. (And the proposal Hotblack mentions from "someone" for a modern, cheaper, joint Anglican-Catholic cathedral that he tells us provoked such shock and horror? The "someone" was the Anglican diocese of Christchurch.)

Support for reconstruction of the old cathedral came not from the church but from conservationists, heritage groups, civic groups and citizens. The building was small but it was impressive and it had iconic, landmark status in the city of Christchurch. People who were not particularly religious or who had no interest in religion wanted to rebuild Christchurch Cathedral for the same reason that similar people in Paris wanted to rebuild Notre Dame when it was burned down; because ot its civic signficance and its heritage value. The reasoning which led the national and local governments to commit substantial resources to the recononstruction of the cathedral was probably similar.

Legal action was taken against the church by heritage and civic groups to compel the church to rebuild the cathedral. Eventually the combination of the pressure of these legal proceedings, plus the financial inducements offered by government, persuaded the church to agree to the reconstruction.

As to why the cost ballooned, I can only guess. But I'll guess a few factors were in play:

• This was always going to be an expensive project.
• Not just because heritage architecture is always expensive (and difficult to scope in advance) . . .
• . . . but because the project required the stabilisation and re-use of an existing earthquake-damaged structure (much more difficult and expensive than working on a greenfield site) . . .
• . . . and because the reconstructed building had to be earthquake-proof. The brief includes building a 63-metre tower, of Gothic design, of local stone, engineered so that it won't fall down in an earthquake. Not a lot of this kind of work has been done before, so pricing it isn't easy.
• Plus, the initial cost projections were produced in the context of a dispute over whether the cathedral should be rebuilt at all. So there was an incentive in place to make optimistic assumptions, assume that certain problems could be solved easily, and pitch the quote as low as possible.
• (Plus other things which genuinely couldn't have been foreseen, like the ballooning of construction costs generally since the Covid-19 pandemic.)

Hotblack Desiato

The article just mentioned that "many have suggested a single building be built in the Square, paid for by both denominations" - didn't say who the many were.

I presume the diocese proposed this under the previous bishop, not the current one who made a statement opposing it.

But I think we're familiar with the concept of optimistic assumptions and low-balling to get a project initiated…

Notre Dame was owned and maintained by the French state and was (is) of global architectural interest, so not really comparable.

According to one of the comments on the article, the architect had originally proposed a wooden structure resilient to earthquakes, but no a stone-built European style cathedral it had to be. It remains to be seen whether it's even possible to construct/reconstruct such a building in that style in that location with acceptable earthquake resilience - never mind what the eventual cost would be.

It seems that no matter what the diocese does or doesn't do, a substantial number of people will be unhappy.