The Hobby Horses of Belief (and assorted hazards)

ohnonotgmail · 19-02-2024 9:39am

I love this bit

Odhinn · 25-02-2024 12:03pm

Hopefully both amendments will go through, showing just how increasingly irrelevant they are.

"Ireland’s Catholic bishops have advised the electorate to vote No in the two referendums next month.

In a statement to be read at Masses on Sunday, they say that the proposed family amendment is likely to weaken the incentive for young people to marry while the second proposed care amendment would abolish all reference to motherhood in the Constitution."

https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/2024/02/25/catholic-bishops-call-for-no-vote-in-both-march-referendums/

Hotblack Desiato · 10-03-2024 7:38pm

Victory for the against everything brigade, I'm afraid.

In other news, a Christian tells a Jew to come to Jesus:

https://www.irishtimes.com/world/middle-east/2024/03/09/biden-predicts-come-to-jesus-meeting-with-netanyahu-over-gaza-aid/

In a grave symptom of two continents divided by a common language, I'd no feckin' idea what he was on about.

Wiktionary (which, incidentally, is great for looking up words in non-English languages) :

Verb

come to Jesus (third-person singular simple present comes to Jesus, present participle coming to Jesus, simple past came to Jesus, past participle come to Jesus)

(idiomatic, Christianity) To experience or display a conversion or recommitment to Christianity or to undergo a related ritual, especially public confession of one's sins or weaknesses.

(idiomatic, US) To become committed or display commitment to a cause.

(idiomatic, US) To have a sudden important realization.

Peregrinus · 11-03-2024 2:34am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121876216#Comment_121876216

The Australian media, reporting on this conversation, provided a helpful translation. Apparently, if they are to be believed, a "come-to-Jesus conversation" is an American idiom meaning a blunt conversation.

Igotadose · 11-03-2024 8:55am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121877763#Comment_121877763

Confirmed by this native speaker of US English:) Still it was clumsy. I recall saying something on a thread about it being 'choke a horse prices' and had to translate :)

ohnonotgmail · 11-03-2024 9:10am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121877973#Comment_121877973

Choke a horse?

Igotadose · 11-03-2024 9:24am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121877996#Comment_121877996

Slang for excessively large amount. Choke a horse prices - unreasonably high. "That pill's big enough to choke a horse!". Also 'horse pills' for very large pills.

Hotblack Desiato · 16-03-2024 9:06pm

Disgraceful comments from the bishop of Rome on Ukraine:

https://www.irishtimes.com/world/europe/2024/03/10/pope-francis-criticised-for-his-white-flag-comments-on-possible-negotiations-to-end-war-in-ukraine/

Pope Francis has been criticised in Ukraine and by some of its allies for suggesting it should have “the courage of the white flag” and seek negotiations to end its war with Russia’s invasion force.

“I think that the strongest one is the one who looks at the situation, thinks about the people and has the courage of the white flag and negotiates,” the pope said in interview with Swiss media last month that was published in part over the weekend.

“The word negotiate is a courageous word. When you see that you are defeated, that things are not going well, you have to have the courage to negotiate,” he added, noting that Turkey had offered to host peace talks – and replying that “I am here” when asked if he would mediate.

Russia says negotiations are impossible unless Ukraine accepts the occupation of a swathe of its territory and other conditions that would limit its sovereignty.

Popey might not be in the best position to offer such advice, after all I don't think the RCC has ever had an unsatisfactory negotiation with a fascist dictator... they're quite fond of 'em actually.

The pope (87) has frustrated Kyiv and its allies by failing to clearly blame Moscow for the war and by suggesting at times that Nato provoked Russian president Vladimir Putin by accepting membership requests from countries located close to Russia.

I didn't know this. What a c**t. 😡 There are very good reasons why so many of Russia's neighbours joined NATO the first chance they got. The head of an artificial statelet created on the whim of Mussolini thinks he can pontificate on the fate of actual countries. (yes, pontificate, no pun intended etc)

robindch · 17-03-2024 12:57pm

I didn't know this.

Russian propaganda travels well in south America, where many people are suspicious of the USA, so the false view that "NATO/EU/USA provoked Russia" is commonly believed.

Frank's comments didn't go down well in Ukraine which told the Vatican to show "the courage of the white flag" to Satan.

Hangdogroad · 19-03-2024 8:39am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121786022#Comment_121786022

I saw a FB friend of a friend posting quotes from this one, such as the below claptrap. The mind boggles!

"Racism does not naturally exist, it was & still is a carefully crafted, curated & propagated method to promote fear, hopelessness, anger & frustration. It is harnessed to give the illusion of separation, a mere tool for divide & conquer. It is introduced into societies at certain times to create certain media sensations, evoking certain predictable reactions from the public. It is used as predictive programming.

The racist events that are promoted in the media are orchestrated, staged ritual murders, not by a random racist killer in an act of hate, but of a calculated organisation with a larger agenda at play, with the intention of provocation, pushing your buttons, creating an international wave of unrest, creating the illusion that we are broken, divided, at war.

You see, we are not broken, divided & at war. We are holistic, united & interconnected. We are heart centred loving beings that care for one another & all beings in our environment. No amount of propaganda can take this truth away. We are pure living loving light beings who are currently undergoing unimaginable light upgrades & transformations. We are not racist & we never, ever were. Do not be blinded by the false flashing lights of delusion & illusion. Do not feed into these fear mongering game-plans. We are not racist, we are inclusive, not exclusive. We are love, acceptance, compassion, kindness & joy. We are SOVEREIGN. We are UNITED. We are the People. We are INCLUSIVE. We shall not be divided by propaganda. Our true essence is L O V E 💞

Unity in diversity

A❤️HO

SWR

Photo: kittens living under the sink, 3 wks old😺🐯 #unityindiversity #inclusivity #unity #sovereign #divinefeminine #divinemasculine #racism"

Igotadose · 30-03-2024 7:51pm

Happy Good Friday. After the brutal murder we'll have the procession as usual.

https://apnews.com/article/mexico-violence-mob-taxco-holy-week-f48c9aa7cad7141b2f6025fba6e216fc

Hotblack Desiato · 07-04-2024 12:13pm

From Wikipedia:

[Actor and Trumpist, Gary] Busey cites the motorcycle accident [in which he received permanent brain damage], as well as a 1995 cocaine overdose, as events that strengthened his Christian faith.

Odhinn · 07-04-2024 7:15pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121987526#Comment_121987526

Ellen Gould White (née Harmon; November 26, 1827 – July 16, 1915) was an American author and co-founder of the Seventh-day Adventist Church. Along with other Adventist leaders such as Joseph Bates and her husband James White,
she was instrumental within a small group of early Adventists who
formed what became known as the Seventh-day Adventist Church. White is
considered a leading figure in American vegetarian history.[2] Smithsonian named her among the "100 Most Significant Americans of All Time".[3]

At the age of nine, White was hit in the face with a stone.[12] This occurred while she was living in Portland, Maine, and probably attending the Brackett Street School.[11] This, she said, started her conversion:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ellen_G._White

Odhinn · 08-04-2024 5:59pm

"An Indian actor running for election as a candidate for the ruling party has been forced to deny eating beef."

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-68761734

(Beef isn't code for anything)

robindch · 09-04-2024 1:29am

🐮🐮

Hotblack Desiato · 09-04-2024 3:42pm

She tasted a Big Mac once, but didn't inhale.

Hotblack Desiato · 12-04-2024 12:37am

https://newsroom.co.nz/2024/04/10/how-christchurch-got-sucked-into-an-eye-wateringly-expensive-cathedral-rebuild/

$248m bill proposed for rebuilding of 2011 earthquake-damaged Christchurch Anglican cathedral in NZ.

Anglican church says it doesn't have the money, cathedral was vastly under-insured, government offers $25m, council $10m, proposals for a scaled down modern and much cheaper building strongly opposed by traditionalists, but the traditionalists can't come up with the cash either.

Then someone proposed that the RCC cathedral (also severely damaged) and the Anglican one both be replaced by a single, modern, cheaper building. Shock! Horror!

Meanwhile church attendances in NZ continue to dwindle to almost nothing…

robindch · 12-04-2024 7:17am

$248m bill proposed for rebuilding of 2011 earthquake-damaged Christchurch Anglican cathedral in NZ.

Without wishing to seem to kick a little church when it's down, I think it's perhaps useful to point out that the "cathedral" in Christchurch is actually quite small and one can only speculate as to why costs have ballooned to around €140 million.

Peregrinus · 12-04-2024 8:00am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122008479#Comment_122008479

Couple of points:

First, it's not really the church that you're kicking here. All along the church's position has been that they didn't want to rebuild the cathedral as it was; their preference was to replace it with a modern, fit-for-purpose cathedral, which would be much cheaper. The church never saw the maintenance and restoration of the city's architectural heritage as being core to its mission. (And the proposal Hotblack mentions from "someone" for a modern, cheaper, joint Anglican-Catholic cathedral that he tells us provoked such shock and horror? The "someone" was the Anglican diocese of Christchurch.)

Support for reconstruction of the old cathedral came not from the church but from conservationists, heritage groups, civic groups and citizens. The building was small but it was impressive and it had iconic, landmark status in the city of Christchurch. People who were not particularly religious or who had no interest in religion wanted to rebuild Christchurch Cathedral for the same reason that similar people in Paris wanted to rebuild Notre Dame when it was burned down; because ot its civic signficance and its heritage value. The reasoning which led the national and local governments to commit substantial resources to the recononstruction of the cathedral was probably similar.

Legal action was taken against the church by heritage and civic groups to compel the church to rebuild the cathedral. Eventually the combination of the pressure of these legal proceedings, plus the financial inducements offered by government, persuaded the church to agree to the reconstruction.

As to why the cost ballooned, I can only guess. But I'll guess a few factors were in play:

This was always going to be an expensive project.
Not just because heritage architecture is always expensive (and difficult to scope in advance) . . .
. . . but because the project required the stabilisation and re-use of an existing earthquake-damaged structure (much more difficult and expensive than working on a greenfield site) . . .
. . . and because the reconstructed building had to be earthquake-proof. The brief includes building a 63-metre tower, of Gothic design, of local stone, engineered so that it won't fall down in an earthquake. Not a lot of this kind of work has been done before, so pricing it isn't easy.
Plus, the initial cost projections were produced in the context of a dispute over whether the cathedral should be rebuilt at all. So there was an incentive in place to make optimistic assumptions, assume that certain problems could be solved easily, and pitch the quote as low as possible.
(Plus other things which genuinely couldn't have been foreseen, like the ballooning of construction costs generally since the Covid-19 pandemic.)

Hotblack Desiato · 12-04-2024 11:07am

The article just mentioned that "many have suggested a single building be built in the Square, paid for by both denominations" - didn't say who the many were.

I presume the diocese proposed this under the previous bishop, not the current one who made a statement opposing it.

But I think we're familiar with the concept of optimistic assumptions and low-balling to get a project initiated…

Notre Dame was owned and maintained by the French state and was (is) of global architectural interest, so not really comparable.

According to one of the comments on the article, the architect had originally proposed a wooden structure resilient to earthquakes, but no a stone-built European style cathedral it had to be. It remains to be seen whether it's even possible to construct/reconstruct such a building in that style in that location with acceptable earthquake resilience - never mind what the eventual cost would be.

It seems that no matter what the diocese does or doesn't do, a substantial number of people will be unhappy.

Peregrinus · 14-04-2024 9:09am

Obviously Christchurch Cathedral doesn't have the global or even national signficance of Notre-Dame, and the church/state relationship differs as betwen France and NZ. But the civic and heritage sentiments which support the reconstruction of Notre-Dame are also the primary driver for the reconstuction of Christchurch cathedral. If this matter were left to the church alone, there's no doubt that the Cathedral would not be rebuilt.

Hotblack Desiato · 14-04-2024 1:43pm

In other news… you gotta keep your orgies under control.

https://nypost.com/2024/04/09/world-news/catholic-priest-who-threw-wild-orgy-involving-male-hooker-erectile-dysfunction-pills-and-mutilation-learns-fate/

A Catholic priest who hosted an out-of-control orgy where a male prostitute overdosed on erectile dysfunction pills and was mutilated was sentenced to 18 months in prison in Poland on Tuesday.
The Polish clergyman, who was assigned to the Church of the Blessed Virgin Mary of the Angels, landed the jail time after being convicted of sexual offenses, supplying drugs and failing to provide assistance to a person in danger of loss of life or serious bodily harm.
He was only officially identified as “Tomasz Z” because of Polish privacy laws, but the Daily Mail said he was Father Tomasz Zmarzły.

Igotadose · 14-04-2024 2:54pm

Doesn't the RCC get it? Crazy drug fueled violent orgies and that priest says it's only newsworthy because it involves the clergy.

At least this creep went to prison for awhile. Maybe Poland's wising up, hard to believe though.

Hotblack Desiato · 03-05-2024 7:49pm

Shazzer from the Bridget Jones films is a self-professed christian, but also a realist in relation to the ubiquitous T+P

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TC8eGQzmUe4&t=2m42s

Hotblack Desiato · 15-05-2024 12:05am

De Burkes at it again, at the CoI synod:

https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/2024/05/12/motion-on-baptism-of-children-of-unmarried-mothers-defeated-as-burke-family-interrupt-church-of-ireland-synod/

A motion to allow all children of unmarried mothers be baptised in the Church of Ireland was rejected at its General Synod in Armagh, despite the overwhelming support of lay delegates.
The motion had called on the Synod to acknowledge “as a reality of modern life that infants are often born to single parents and/or to couples who are not married”.
Over 40 per cent of births in Ireland are outside of marriage. In a vote on the motion, 69 clergy were in favour with 72 against, while of lay delegates 144 were in favour with 83 against. Due to the clergy rejection, the motion fell.
Separately, proceedings at the General Synod, in the Armagh City Hotel, were disrupted for a short period on Saturday, with a protest by Martina Burke and members of her family. Mrs Burke’s son Enoch, who had been a teacher at the Church of Ireland-run Wilson’s Hospital School in Co Westmeath, is currently in Mountjoy Prison over his failure to comply with an order to stay away from the school.

They didn't have a good time of it last week in court:

https://www.irishtimes.com/crime-law/courts/2024/05/10/sean-burke-guilty-of-red-rag-to-a-bull-assault-on-female-garda-during-enoch-burke-court-appearance/

The father of jailed teacher Enoch Burke has been found guilty of assault after a trial heard he grabbed and “flung” a female garda to the ground “like a red rag to a bull” after his wife was escorted out of the Court of Appeal (CoA).
Ammi Burke, was found guilty of obstructing a garda during the same “commotion” on March 7th last year at the Four Courts.
Finalising the case, Judge Finan applied the Probation Act in the case of Sean Burke, sparing him a recorded conviction. However, she convicted Ammi Burke and imposed a fine of €400, to be paid within 12 months.
Ms Burke told the court she does not intend to pay and that she would appeal the verdict.

robindch · 16-05-2024 11:25am

Wonder how much of Ireland's court time has been taken up with the Burkes and their endless campaigns to be noticed and taken seriously?

Hotblack Desiato · 16-05-2024 12:56pm

Between that and prison etc this family are a serious drain on the taxpayer.

Pawwed Rig · 16-05-2024 10:37pm

They seem to have quick and easy access to the courts aswell which is puzzling when you see how long it takes others to get their days in court.

Hotblack Desiato · 19-05-2024 9:32pm

It is reported that the helicopter of the president of Iran has crashed.

I hope the theocratic prick died roaring.

robindch · 24-05-2024 10:26am

Belated condolences to the family of the helicopter.

ohnonotgmail · 24-05-2024 12:14pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122176949#Comment_122176949

I hear that Budgie the Little Helicopter is inconsolable at the loss of their uncle

Hotblack Desiato · 24-05-2024 4:49pm

Apparently at least two television networks fell for a 'report' that the incident was the doing of a Mossad agent named Eli Kopter…

robindch · 27-05-2024 8:29pm

Priest defends his magic biscuits with his TEETH, goddammit, TEETH:

https://www.loweringthebar.net/2024/05/priest-who-bit-woman-during-mass-says-she-had-it-coming.html

Igotadose · 05-06-2024 8:44pm

////

Hotblack Desiato · 09-06-2024 1:23am

there might be some context I'm missing here, IIRC Star Trek had a pretty dim view of religion…

Igotadose · 09-06-2024 7:04am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122236218#Comment_122236218

Uhh… I think the reference is to the Mormons, conflating them with the Borg.

Hotblack Desiato · 16-06-2024 12:38pm

Turns out a priest is a bit of a fascism fan, that's never happened before…

https://archive.ph/CBZTv

Fr Cummins did not respond to a request for comment. Earlier this month a UK website, North West Bylines, contacted Fr Cummins to show him a draft of an article it intended to publish about his Facebook posts.The article, written by an Irish writer, also made other criticisms of the priest. The website decided not to publish the article after Fr Cummins threatened it with a defamation action.In his response to North West Bylines, Fr Cummins wrote that: “I am from a wealthy family with many connections to solicitors, so the choice, as always, is yours my friend.”

Nice fella 🙄

robindch · 18-06-2024 10:54am

TCD are hosting a shower of "free speech" agitators this evening in their Thomas Davis Theatre at 18:00

https://www.tickettailor.com/events/freespeechireland1/1277951

The Hobby Horses of Belief (and assorted hazards)

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