Should junkies be allowed to have children?

1o059k7ewrqj3n

Should they be allowed? Yes.

Should they actually have children? No.

Not until they get treatment and stop using because being a parent is hard enough without a serious habit to support as well,

khaldrogo

Cobalt17 wrote: »

Seeing junkies pushing prams is a horrible sight to behold. Why aren’t these children made ward of state, or contraceptive solutions mixed with methadone?

They should be sterilized.

AulWan

Deleted User wrote: »

You haven't expended any energy at all... to suggest you have, simply shows an inability to engage in a reasonable discussion. Instead, your opinion (based on whatever) is all that matters, and any dissenting voices must be shot down.

Pretty pathetic overall. Why bother posting at all, if you're so unwilling to listen to other people? Meh. Sadly, people with your kind of intolerance to other opinions is becoming more common.

Nope, I'm just not bothered getting dragged into a row with someone so clearly ill informed.

Please don't have children until you realise they are not something you own and they are indivduals who have rights outside of their parents (bio or otherwise).

Goodnight.

AulWan

AulWan wrote: »

Nope, I'm just not bothered getting dragged into a row with someone so clearly ill informed.

Please don't have children until you realise they are not something you own and they are indivduals who have rights outside of their parents (bio or otherwise).

Goodnight.

Absolute rubbish. Ill informed? by what standards? considering you haven't backed up even one of your statements, or countered mine.

As I said, dismissive and intolerant. Patronizing too. :rolleyes:

Kylta

nthclare wrote: »

It's ok to be compassionate to the kid's and all.

But try telling families and friends who's lives are ruined by addiction and sadly only 3% of addict's get clean and sober.

Now there's a statistical analysis, junkie's are unfortunate and obviously their lives are tough...

But try telling a wife or husband at home now during the lockdown, and putting up with an addict or alcoholic making their lives a misery.

Look at John, he's 35 middle class he had a great job before covid 19.
He's no problem huffing 200 euros up his nose on a weekly basis.
Now he's supporting a wife and two kid's on 350 a week and he's stressed to the hilt.
Sandra, who he's having an affair with is constantly texting him, he's afraid of getting caught...no coke to get through the evening to ease the pain..

So he's narky, full of fear and anxiety. Decides to start necking cans of cider and cheap plonk.
After 5 cans he's still a nervous wreck.
His wife Caroline has no food in the fridge, John's crying and Carolina doesn't know what's wrong she's trying to hold the family together.
Front Park avenue to park bench...

John is going through withdrawals, after all he had a great job being a coder.
Business is gone to the wall, BMW 5 series and a Toyota Prius in the driveway in the leafy suburbs.

John starts scoring a bit of Coke and he's buying it off the local dealer called Pepsi.

John is kicked out of the home, calls Sandra.
Sandra decides that she's not in love with John.
After all who wants to be with a junkie.

John moves back to Mullingar to his parents house, meanwhile Pepsi is banging on Caroline's door looking for the 400 euro John owes...

Sandra and the kid's are petrified and living in fear.

John goes to Zoom Narcotics anonymous meetings suggested by his friend in Mullingar who John opened up to about his problem.

John want's to get sober and clean, but Sandra's still in the 3 bed semi-detached house in the leafy suburbs having to pay Pepsi 600 euro's as the interest in the drug debt increased.

Eventually it's paid off and Pepsi leaves Caroline alone.

Caroline's full of justified resentment, but she's coping ok...
Tuesday evening Caroline gets a message on Facebook from Sandra who decides to tell Caroline she was having an affair with John and she's really sorry.

Caroline's at the end of her tether, she's a single parent and her whole life is in turmoil.

She's thinking of moving back to Killarney and be closer to her parents and extended family...

John trying to sort his life out and is away from dodge...

Who comes first the addict or the family ???

There's husband's and wife's all over the country as you're reading this now suffering from addiction and it's destruction...

Isn't it great that we're all sitting at home safe in our ivory towers...

Unfortunately you left out the violence that comes with the above.

Hector Savage

Aint Eazy Being Cheezy wrote: »

How dyou propose to police it? You wanna guide Anto outta Jacinta everytime he manages to get a horn?

Sterilisation of drug addicts would be a good practice.

Antares35

AulWan wrote: »

You obviously don't know very many adopted people.

In my over 50 years I have yet to meet even one who did not have the urge to find out who their biological parents were.

There is now legislation around children's rights, and adopted children's rights to information. You may want to look into those.

My adopted brother tried to find his birth mother but was unsuccessful. I believe in terms of adoptions carried out then, where either party wants to now contact the other, both parties have to have provided consent or something.

It's a pity, because she could have taken him back - she knew what she was doing when she gave him up. :P

My friend is also adopted - never had any desire to meet her birth mother - still has anger issues over it - "she rejected me once, why would I want to know her" etc.

It's a very grey area and differs for everybody. I am undecided on whether "open adoptions" are the right answer but as a minimum, I think people should be entitled to their medical and genetic history so that they can make informed decisions about their healthcare etc.

Cobalt17

Antares35 wrote: »

My adopted brother tried to find his birth mother but was unsuccessful. I believe in terms of adoptions carried out then, where either party wants to now contact the other, both parties have to have provided consent or something.

It's a pity, because she could have taken him back - she knew what she was doing when she gave him up. :P

My friend is also adopted - never had any desire to meet her birth mother - still has anger issues over it - "she rejected me once, why would I want to know her" etc.

It's a very grey area and differs for everybody. I am undecided on whether "open adoptions" are the right answer but as a minimum, I think people should be entitled to their medical and genetic history so that they can make informed decisions about their healthcare etc.

This happened to me when I tried to track my biological parents. After that, I lost the desire to track them. It’s a bit of a gut punch being told that you were essentially given up and explicitly forever removed from their lives, but ultimately the experience made me love my adoptive parents more. I’ve had no desire to know nor hear about my biological parents since then.

nthclare

Kylta wrote: »

Unfortunately you left out the violence that comes with the above.

I decided to go for the softer version of the addict, but they're insidious all the same.

It's nearly easier to deal with them when they're high rather than they're craving or abstaining.

Having been around addiction and how cunning baffling and powerful it is, believe you me it's a horrifying experience.

It's like living in a nightmare or a HP Lovecraft novel you just never know what will happen next.

They're good at pulling the heart strings too until you've had enough.

Anyone who enables the addict unfortunately is fueling their own misery.

corner of hells

nthclare wrote: »

It's ok to be compassionate to the kid's and all.

But try telling families and friends who's lives are ruined by addiction and sadly only 3% of addict's get clean and sober.

Now there's a statistical analysis, junkie's are unfortunate and obviously their lives are tough...

But try telling a wife or husband at home now during the lockdown, and putting up with an addict or alcoholic making their lives a misery.

Look at John, he's 35 middle class he had a great job before covid 19.
He's no problem huffing 200 euros up his nose on a weekly basis.
Now he's supporting a wife and two kid's on 350 a week and he's stressed to the hilt.
Sandra, who he's having an affair with is constantly texting him, he's afraid of getting caught...no coke to get through the evening to ease the pain..

So he's narky, full of fear and anxiety. Decides to start necking cans of cider and cheap plonk.
After 5 cans he's still a nervous wreck.
His wife Caroline has no food in the fridge, John's crying and Carolina doesn't know what's wrong she's trying to hold the family together.
Front Park avenue to park bench...

John is going through withdrawals, after all he had a great job being a coder.
Business is gone to the wall, BMW 5 series and a Toyota Prius in the driveway in the leafy suburbs.

John starts scoring a bit of Coke and he's buying it off the local dealer called Pepsi.

John is kicked out of the home, calls Sandra.
Sandra decides that she's not in love with John.
After all who wants to be with a junkie.

John moves back to Mullingar to his parents house, meanwhile Pepsi is banging on Caroline's door looking for the 400 euro John owes...

Sandra and the kid's are petrified and living in fear.

John goes to Zoom Narcotics anonymous meetings suggested by his friend in Mullingar who John opened up to about his problem.

John want's to get sober and clean, but Sandra's still in the 3 bed semi-detached house in the leafy suburbs having to pay Pepsi 600 euro's as the interest in the drug debt increased.

Eventually it's paid off and Pepsi leaves Caroline alone.

Caroline's full of justified resentment, but she's coping ok...
Tuesday evening Caroline gets a message on Facebook from Sandra who decides to tell Caroline she was having an affair with John and she's really sorry.

Caroline's at the end of her tether, she's a single parent and her whole life is in turmoil.

She's thinking of moving back to Killarney and be closer to her parents and extended family...

John trying to sort his life out and is away from dodge...

Who comes first the addict or the family ???

There's husband's and wife's all over the country as you're reading this now suffering from addiction and it's destruction...

Isn't it great that we're all sitting at home safe in our ivory towers...

I can get you some Xanax if you want.

begbysback

nthclare wrote: »

It's ok to be compassionate to the kid's and all.

But try telling families and friends who's lives are ruined by addiction and sadly only 3% of addict's get clean and sober.

Now there's a statistical analysis, junkie's are unfortunate and obviously their lives are tough...

But try telling a wife or husband at home now during the lockdown, and putting up with an addict or alcoholic making their lives a misery.

Look at John, he's 35 middle class he had a great job before covid 19.
He's no problem huffing 200 euros up his nose on a weekly basis.
Now he's supporting a wife and two kid's on 350 a week and he's stressed to the hilt.
Sandra, who he's having an affair with is constantly texting him, he's afraid of getting caught...no coke to get through the evening to ease the pain..

So he's narky, full of fear and anxiety. Decides to start necking cans of cider and cheap plonk.
After 5 cans he's still a nervous wreck.
His wife Caroline has no food in the fridge, John's crying and Carolina doesn't know what's wrong she's trying to hold the family together.
Front Park avenue to park bench...

John is going through withdrawals, after all he had a great job being a coder.
Business is gone to the wall, BMW 5 series and a Toyota Prius in the driveway in the leafy suburbs.

John starts scoring a bit of Coke and he's buying it off the local dealer called Pepsi.

John is kicked out of the home, calls Sandra.
Sandra decides that she's not in love with John.
After all who wants to be with a junkie.

John moves back to Mullingar to his parents house, meanwhile Pepsi is banging on Caroline's door looking for the 400 euro John owes...

Sandra and the kid's are petrified and living in fear.

John goes to Zoom Narcotics anonymous meetings suggested by his friend in Mullingar who John opened up to about his problem.

John want's to get sober and clean, but Sandra's still in the 3 bed semi-detached house in the leafy suburbs having to pay Pepsi 600 euro's as the interest in the drug debt increased.

Eventually it's paid off and Pepsi leaves Caroline alone.

Caroline's full of justified resentment, but she's coping ok...
Tuesday evening Caroline gets a message on Facebook from Sandra who decides to tell Caroline she was having an affair with John and she's really sorry.

Caroline's at the end of her tether, she's a single parent and her whole life is in turmoil.

She's thinking of moving back to Killarney and be closer to her parents and extended family...

John trying to sort his life out and is away from dodge...

Who comes first the addict or the family ???

There's husband's and wife's all over the country as you're reading this now suffering from addiction and it's destruction...

Isn't it great that we're all sitting at home safe in our ivory towers...

So Sandra was only with John for his money?

nthclare

corner of hells wrote: »

I can get you some Xanax if you want.

I think you know what I mean and thanks for offering me a lift, suggesting medical intervention or selling drugs is a no no on board's but your heart is in the right place petal...
You're ohhh so kind..

Some of us can think outside the box rather than live inside a bubble and emulating a hedgehog

IAMAMORON

nthclare wrote: »

I think you know what I mean and thanks for offering me a lift, suggesting medical intervention or selling drugs is a no no on board's but your heart is in the right place petal...
You're ohhh so kind..

Some of us can think outside the box rather than live inside a bubble and emulating a hedgehog

I just want to hook with John for his banger meltdown in fairness, banger meltdowns are great craic.

Does he end up getting a job later on, or what happens? Tell me he meets someone new?

corner of hells

nthclare wrote: »

I think you know what I mean and thanks for offering me a lift, suggesting medical intervention or selling drugs is a no no on board's but your heart is in the right place petal...
You're ohhh so kind..

Some of us can think outside the box rather than live inside a bubble and emulating a hedgehog

I'll can be a vet to get around the medical stuff and dont be to caught up the drug stuff.

LeYouth

Aint Eazy Being Cheezy wrote: »

How dyou propose to police it? You wanna guide Anto outta Jacinta everytime he manages to get a horn?

Can we get some action on Jacinta. Haha.

nthclare

IAMAMORON wrote: »

I just want to hook with John for his banger meltdown in fairness, banger meltdowns are great craic.

Does he end up getting a job later on, or what happens? Tell me he meets someone new?

Oh nothing like a middle class banger meltdown, from Park avenue to park bench is a reality check that's for sure.

No longer will he be doing banger after a few chicken wings and chips ,and talking about his property and car portfolio that's for sure.

He ends up on a CE scheme at the local gaa pitch and instead of doing lines of banger and smoking grass he's painting the 65 yard line and cutting grass..

So metaphorically he's on a spiritual path and it sounds really good in aftercare telling his story from lines of banger to line's of hope..

He quite fancies Molly down the road, obviously he's a recovering addict and attracted to Chao's, Molly's the village crack whore who's often seen shouting and roaring at the duck's in the village duck pond...

IAMAMORON

nthclare wrote: »

Oh nothing like a middle class banger meltdown, from Park avenue to park bench is a reality check that's for sure.

No longer will he be doing banger after a few chicken wings and chips ,and talking about his property and car portfolio that's for sure.

He ends up on a CE scheme at the local gaa pitch and instead of doing lines of banger and smoking grass he's painting the 65 yard line and cutting grass..

So metaphorically he's on a spiritual path and it sounds really good in aftercare telling his story from lines of banger to line's of hope..

He quite fancies Molly down the road, obviously he's a recovering addict and attracted to Chao's, Molly's the village crack whore who's often seen shouting and roaring at the duck's in the village duck pond...

Is his favourite movie The Basketball Diaries?

Painting GAA pitches sounds nasty, but at least he is getting a start somewhere. If Molly finds out he was on the gear she mightn't take to him. Her story might develop a different tangent, especially if she keeps feeding the ducks.

Maybe if he hits the pipe with Molly for a while they might generate a connection? It would certainly stop her screaming down the park for a while, god bless her.

Although in fairness she sounds like a mis-match, I am not feeling the connection myself. Most middle class types don't fall for screaming mad yokes either, in fact very few do. If he is at all attractive he will be hooking up with a decent looking party girl for a while, one who went to Loreto and has a bit of third level. Much more presentable to mammy on Sunday.

El_Duderino 09

Sounds like a libertarian's nightmare to have the state decide who can and can't have children. But I could support it depending on how it's done.

There are cases in other places where they offer the longer term contraception to drug addicts. I'd support a system where the drug addicts opt into being made temporarily or permanently infertile. It would take significant state investment to publicise and educate the drug addict population about the programme and then do the procedures and various follow ups, but it could be worth it.

Kylta

nthclare wrote: »

I decided to go for the softer version of the addict, but they're insidious all the same.

It's nearly easier to deal with them when they're high rather than they're craving or abstaining.

Having been around addiction and how cunning baffling and powerful it is, believe you me it's a horrifying experience.

It's like living in a nightmare or a HP Lovecraft novel you just never know what will happen next.

They're good at pulling the heart strings too until you've had enough.

Anyone who enables the addict unfortunately is fueling their own misery.

You never said a truer word. Many of my friends had addiction problems from drink, to drugs to gambling, I've believe the addict does not really care or maybe he can't see the destruction he's causes around himself. Its the familes and friends who see the destruction of relationships and friendships. And in most cases they will bury the addict.

IAMAMORON

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Sounds like a libertarian's nightmare to have the state decide who can and can't have children. But I could support it depending on how it's done.

There are cases in other places where they offer the longer term contraception to drug addicts. I'd support a system where the drug addicts opt into being made temporarily or permanently infertile. It would take significant state investment to publicise and educate the drug addict population about the programme and then do the procedures and various follow ups, but it could be worth it.

Tell me you are ripping the piss here? Please?

Foweva Awone

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

There are cases in other places where they offer the longer term contraception to drug addicts. I'd support a system where the drug addicts opt into being made temporarily or permanently infertile. It would take significant state investment to publicise and educate the drug addict population about the programme and then do the procedures and various follow ups, but it could be worth it.

I'm a recovering addict. In the last (female only) treatment centre I was in, they took a very holistic practical approach to help us regain control in every area of our life, including physical health.

All of us had to attend the local GP when we were there, and a huge emphasis was placed on the importance of reliable contraception. Most of us were mothers already, an unplanned pregnancy would not be ideal in early recovery. The GP really pushed the coil as a method of contraception (lasts about 5 years but you can get it removed whenever you want if you want to get pregnant), I got it when I was there even though I was single and have been since. A lot of the girls in treatment with me at the time got it too.

In addition to that we got a lot of education about contraception and STIs etc. Plus a very comprehensive parenting program to help us with the kids we'd already brought into the world.

If they're able to do that in one treatment centre, no reason it couldn't be carried out through other services.

El_Duderino 09

IAMAMORON wrote: »

Tell me you are ripping the piss here? Please?

I’m not ripping the piss. Why do you find that opinion hard to believe?

It works in some parts of the world. I listened to an interview with a woman who is involved in counselling the addicts and helping them decide if they want to do it.

It’s seen as a very left leaning programme similar to needle exchanges and providing places where addicts can test the drugs for safety and use their drugs with medical staff present. It’s seen as facilitating drug use and is opposed by the right wing types who prefer punishment at every step.

I think voluntary infertility is a great idea for drug addicts. There are temporary measures like the coil and of course there are permanent measures if the addict chooses not to have any more children. I think it’s a good option for the addicts. What do you think is taking the piss?

IAMAMORON

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

What do you think is taking the piss?

Frankly all of it , but in particular

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I'd support a system where the drug addicts opt into being made temporarily or permanently infertile.

I don't like state intervention at the best of times, but citizens' bodies are off limits in my book. That sounds like totalitarianism in the extreme. Joseph Mengele would be proud of you.

I am not for turning on this either, so reiterating suggestions involving state intervention in basic human rights will not be tempered by me, sorry. I have no problem with contraception, at all, but enforced state contraception? Listen to yourself please.

punisher5112

Drugs such as methadone should make it not possible till they're clean.... So sad to see the kids lives destroyed.....

El_Duderino 09

IAMAMORON wrote: »

Frankly all of it , but in particular



I don't like state intervention at the best of times, but citizens' bodies are off limits in my book. That sounds like totalitarianism in the extreme. Joseph Mengele would be proud of you.

I am not for turning on this either, so reiterating suggestions involving state intervention in basic human rights will not be tempered by me, sorry. I have no problem with contraception, at all, but enforced state contraception? Listen to yourself please.

It's funny you'd think I meant "enforced" since you quoted me saying "opt-in" twice.

corner of hells

punisher5112 wrote: »

Drugs such as methadone should make it not possible till they're clean.... So sad to see the kids lives destroyed.....

If you're on methadone, you're not to have kids ?

saabsaab

No. They are not in any position to be parents. How you could enforce it would be the problem.

El_Duderino 09

saabsaab wrote: »

No. They are not in any position to be parents. How you could enforce it would be the problem.

Why should it be enforced? I don't think the should enforce it at all. I think it should be an option for drug addicts. That way it's win-win for the addict and society.

Ultrflat

I think its questionable at best that a child is sent home with parents that are under the influance of any kind of drug. Esspechilly one that would endanger a baby.

El_Duderino 09

That's the one : project prevention
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Prevention

Started in california. They pay drug addicts if they choose to be sterilised and carry out the procedure for them. Sounds like a great idea to me.