Should junkies be allowed to have children?

YFlyer · 23-04-2020 8:35pm

Are Junkies allowed to adopt?

Cobalt17 · 23-04-2020 8:36pm

YFlyer wrote: »

Are Junkies allowed to adopt?

No.

YFlyer · 23-04-2020 8:37pm

Cobalt17 wrote: »

No.

Bummer.

AulWan · 23-04-2020 8:37pm

What about all those junkies who are addicted to prescription drugs, like Xanax or Valium? Or those strung out on over the counter drugs like solpadeine, "recreational" drug users who only smoke or snort drugs "for fun" at the weekend? Or what about those who are simply alcohol junkies, knocking back a couple of bottles at a time while the kids are in bed (but would be legally over the limit to drive them to the hospital if anything happened?) Are they all on your list of who should not be allowed to have children too? Junkies come in many shapes and thats a lot of kids.

Cobalt17 · 23-04-2020 8:38pm

AulWan wrote: »

What about all those junkies who are addicted to prescription drugs, like Xanax or Valium? Or those strung out on over the counter drugs like solpadeine, "recreational" drug users who only smoke or snort drugs "for fun" at the weekend? Or what about those who are simply alcohol junkies, knocking back a couple of bottles at a time while the kids are in bed (but would be legally over the limit to drive them to the hospital if anything happened?) Are they all on your list of who should not be allowed to have children too? Junkies come in many shapes and thats a lot of kids.

If it negatively effects their children, they should be removed from them.

IAMAMORON · 23-04-2020 8:40pm

Cobalt17 wrote: »

Nope, I’m not addicted to anything. I’ve never been dim enough to try any addictive substance.

Are you addicted to totalitarianism?

Do you think the state should be given laws where by they could detain you and then force you to be castrated because you are a drug user?

Cobalt17 · 23-04-2020 8:41pm

IAMAMORON wrote: »

Are you addicted to totalitarianism?

Do you think the state should be given laws where by they could detain you and then force you to be castrated because you are a drug user?

You clearly didn’t read my initial statement. Providing contraception with methadone is not the same as forceful castration.

Annasopra · 23-04-2020 8:46pm

Cobalt17 wrote: »

Seeing junkies pushing prams is a horrible sight to behold. Why aren’t these children made ward of state, or contraceptive solutions mixed with methadone?

Enforced sterilisation?

AulWan · 23-04-2020 8:51pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Just reduce welfare allocations for anyone with a history of unemployment and having more than one child. Any further children would be taken by the State and put up for adoption (with no allowable contact tracing from the original parents under any circumstances). .

Have you stopped to consider the child's rights here? What you are suggesting is not possible.

Children have their own right to know who their biological parents are. It would be a denial of their rights to deny tracing.

No such thing as a closed adoption with no possibility of contact, anymore.

As for childless couples, their solution to their plight is not solved by forcibly removing children from their biological parents.

Even in the worst case scenario where a child is taken into care, the worst addict can recover and turn it around. And when they do, they should be reunited with their children.

Children are not pieces of property to be taken from one person and given to another.

Cobalt17 · 23-04-2020 8:56pm

AulWan wrote: »

Have you stopped to consider the child's rights here? What you are suggesting is not possible.

Children have their own right to know who their biological parents are. It would be a denial of their rights to deny tracing.

No such thing as a closed adoption with no possibility of contact, anymore.

As for childless couples, their solution to their plight is not solved by forcibly removing children from their biological parents.

Even in the worst case scenario where a child is taken into care, the worst addict can recover and turn it around. And when they do, they should be reunited with their children.

Children are not pieces of property to be taken from one person and given to another.

Not true. You can choose to not have your name recorded when submitting a child for adoption. I was told as much when I decided to try to track my biological parents down.

andekwarhola · 23-04-2020 9:00pm

My heart breaks to see it and I feel like killing the parents but I don't want to live in a totalitarian country either.

AulWan · 23-04-2020 9:05pm

Cobalt17 wrote: »

Not true. You can choose to not have your name recorded when submitting a child for adoption. I was told as much when I decided to try to track my biological parents down.

Even sperm donors have to be traceable now.

Obviously your problem lies with your own parents.

I'll leave it there.

Cobalt17 · 23-04-2020 9:07pm

AulWan wrote: »

Even sperm donors have to be traceable now.

Obviously your problem lies with your own parents.

I'll leave it there.

Well this was 30 years ago.

JustAThought · 23-04-2020 9:21pm

children are also not posessions or capital that you can use and leverage and destroy as you see fit. They also have rights as human beings - rights that include the right to a safe home environment, parents who are sober, who do not abuse them, who feed and nurture their spirits, who care for and protect them, and look after their health.

Not a cracked up crazed junkie mother who got pregnant by accident and 5 years on is still strung out in methadone drinking on the street from dusk to dawn and dragging the baby around with her. That child should be taken and put into a safe, nurturing, loving home.

I have watched xhildren being used as revenue begging from when they were young, dossed down on the street with their junked out mothers being used to generate pity and gain a few couns in a cup - kept from having good health, friends, schooling, a normal life - these kids are now the new generation junked out in town, dragging their kids around with them and begfing outside shops while the gaurds, tulsa and state agencies let it happen. We should take the same approach as Mayor Guliano did in New York - and breaK the cycle of misery, suffering and abuse. Being a parent is not a right - and certainly bot if you are a non functioning junkie endangering your child daily with your illegal and reckless ‘care’.

23-04-2020 9:33pm

AulWan wrote: »

Have you stopped to consider the child's rights here? What you are suggesting is not possible.

Rubbish. Of course, it's possible. People go out of their way these days to make every answer too complicated to implement.

The Child has the right to be raised in a loving family that can provide for them. Beyond that, I don't see any conflict.

Children have their own right to know who their biological parents are. It would be a denial of their rights to deny tracing.

I don't see a problem with denying them that. Ignorance is bliss. Very few people ever have the need to ever question whether their parents are their biological parents. You're simply raising problems where none are likely to be. Considering the narrow focus of such a move, the numbers of people affected would be very few.

No such thing as a closed adoption with no possibility of contact, anymore.

There should be when the mother/father is that unfit to be a parent.

As for childless couples, their solution to their plight is not solved by forcibly removing children from their biological parents.

Sure it is. A biological baby taken from their parent(s) can be raised in another family without any serious side effects, especially if the child (after growing up) believes that the adopted parents are their real parents.

Even in the worst case scenario where a child is taken into care, the worst addict can recover and turn it around. And when they do, they should be reunited with their children.

Children are not pieces of property to be taken from one person and given to another.

Nah. I think you're getting up on that self-imposed high moral pedestal that decides that we must have the most inefficient and unworkable society because everyone has rights that can't be crossed.

As for junkies recovering, they have the opportunity to have further children. There must be a cut off position for types of behavior. Otherwise, people won't feel that there are consequences for their actions.

So. Nope. Don't agree with you even slightly.

RobertKK · 23-04-2020 9:36pm

What do the junkies on boards think about this?
They should have their say.

robertpatterson · 23-04-2020 9:40pm

No they should be sterilised ive seen first hand some of the squalor they've brought kids up in
Theses kids have little chance in life they get dragged around from dealer to dealer at all hours while their parents are looking for their next fix .
Sterilisation pure and simple

Junkyard Tom · 23-04-2020 9:40pm

Cobalt17 wrote: »

...

Alright genius, you've had plenty of time to think this through.

How will this system of forced sterilisation work?

Can you come up with an answer quicker than the pig completes the puzzle?

Cobalt17 · 23-04-2020 9:48pm

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Alright genius, you've had plenty of time to think this through.

How will this system of forced sterilisation work?

Can you come up with an answer quicker than the pig completes the puzzle?

Alright genius, I never once advocated for “forced sterilisation”. You’re just reading what you want to read.

What I said was contraceptives along with methadrone.

AulWan · 23-04-2020 9:59pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I don't see a problem with denying them that. Ignorance is bliss. Very few people ever have the need to ever question whether their parents are their biological parents. You're simply raising problems where none are likely to be. Considering the narrow focus of such a move, the numbers of people affected would be very few..

You obviously don't know very many adopted people.

In my over 50 years I have yet to meet even one who did not have the urge to find out who their biological parents were.

There is now legislation around children's rights, and adopted children's rights to information. You may want to look into those.

Junkyard Tom · 23-04-2020 10:25pm

Cobalt17 wrote: »

I never once advocated for “forced sterilisation”. You’re just reading what you want to read.

So you're basically saying that we should encourage junkies to beat addiction and educate them on the consequences of pregnancy.

Then we're agreed; we should be treating addiction as a public health issue and should fund it accordingly in an attempt to reduce the harm caused to society.

Thank you and goodnight.

23-04-2020 10:42pm

AulWan wrote: »

You obviously don't know very many adopted people.

Obviously. I do know some but not many. In regards to those I do know, two were happier if they'd never found out (they didn't track down their biological parent), and one who did track down their parent, finding that the parent wasn't someone she wanted to know.

So.. why do you apparently know so many adopted people?

In my over 50 years I have yet to meet even one who did not have the urge to find out who their biological parents were.

Well, being 7 years older than me probably means a lot to you, but not so much to me. It's what you do with your life, rather than the number of years.

There is now legislation around children's rights, and adopted children's rights to information. You may want to look into those.

Why would I? I stated what I believe would be best for society and for those children involved.

Atlantic Dawn · 23-04-2020 10:43pm

What about a millionaire hoovering up mounds of coke regularly, should he be allowed to have kids?

IAMAMORON · 23-04-2020 10:45pm

Cobalt17 wrote: »

You clearly didn’t read my initial statement. Providing contraception with methadone is not the same as forceful castration.

It really proves you have no idea what you are talking about. Contraception is already provided.

AulWan · 24-04-2020 12:10am

Deleted User wrote: »

Sure it is. A biological baby taken from their parent(s) can be raised in another family without any serious side effects, especially if the child (after growing up) believes that the adopted parents are their real parents. .

Wow.

So not only do you advocate ignoring the child's right to know who their biological parents are, you also advocate lying to them about their origins. For their whole lives.

I seriously hope you are not a parent.

ILoveYourVibes · 24-04-2020 12:19am

Cobalt17 wrote: »

Seeing junkies pushing prams is a horrible sight to behold. Why aren’t these children made ward of state, or contraceptive solutions mixed with methadone?

Do you want a serious conversation?

Lets start off with being less judgemental and more compassionate to both parents and kids.

24-04-2020 12:43am

AulWan wrote: »

Wow.

So not only do you advocate ignoring the child's right to know who their biological parents are, you also advocate lying to them about their origins. For their whole lives.

I seriously hope you are not a parent.

I'm not a parent... but then you skipped over the experiences of the adopted people I do know. In favor of what?

If they do not know they are adopted then there are no issues. Simple as that. Some information isn't helpful. From conversations with those who I do know are adopted, they've all said that they preferred when they didn't know they were adopted (two of them are friends, and the other is my cousin.. although by your standard she's not my cousin). The knowledge changed their relationships with the parents that raised them. You believe seem to believe everyone should know that they are adopted. I find that irresponsible, and destructive.

I get it. You disagree with me, as I disagree with you... but don't pretend that such knowledge is always helpful or constructive for the persons life. It's not.

In the case of a junkie, alcoholic, etc they could easily be still that way, rather than have reformed their lives. I'm not so hellbent on believing that everyone wants to be saved, because, in my experience (and general statistics reflect it), most don't... and yes, I have a lot more experience with junkies & alcoholics than i have with adopted people.

AulWan · 24-04-2020 12:58am

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm not a parent... but then you skipped over the experiences of the adopted people I do know. In favor of what?

If they do not know they are adopted then there are no issues. Simple as that. Some information isn't helpful. From conversations with those who I do know are adopted, they've all said that they preferred when they didn't know they were adopted (two of them are friends, and the other is my cousin.. although by your standard she's not my cousin). The knowledge changed their relationships with the parents that raised them. You believe seem to believe everyone should know that they are adopted. I find that irresponsible, and destructive.

I get it. You disagree with me, as I disagree with you... but don't pretend that such knowledge is always helpful or constructive for the persons life. It's not.

In the case of a junkie, alcoholic, etc they could easily be still that way, rather than have reformed their lives. I'm not so hellbent on believing that everyone wants to be saved, because, in my experience (and general statistics reflect it), most don't... and yes, I have a lot more experience with junkies & alcoholics than i have with adopted people.

You cited the experience of 3 adopted people you claim to know, and on that basis, you think you know how ALL adopted people feel, and what is constructive, or not, for them.

I'm just not going to waste any energy going down this path with you.

Suffice to say you are ill informed, and not just on the issues surrounding adoption or children's rights.

nthclare · 24-04-2020 1:29am

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Do you want a serious conversation?

Lets start off with being less judgemental and more compassionate to both parents and kids.

It's ok to be compassionate to the kid's and all.

But try telling families and friends who's lives are ruined by addiction and sadly only 3% of addict's get clean and sober.

Now there's a statistical analysis, junkie's are unfortunate and obviously their lives are tough...

But try telling a wife or husband at home now during the lockdown, and putting up with an addict or alcoholic making their lives a misery.

Look at John, he's 35 middle class he had a great job before covid 19.
He's no problem huffing 200 euros up his nose on a weekly basis.
Now he's supporting a wife and two kid's on 350 a week and he's stressed to the hilt.
Sandra, who he's having an affair with is constantly texting him, he's afraid of getting caught...no coke to get through the evening to ease the pain..

So he's narky, full of fear and anxiety. Decides to start necking cans of cider and cheap plonk.
After 5 cans he's still a nervous wreck.
His wife Caroline has no food in the fridge, John's crying and Carolina doesn't know what's wrong she's trying to hold the family together.
Front Park avenue to park bench...

John is going through withdrawals, after all he had a great job being a coder.
Business is gone to the wall, BMW 5 series and a Toyota Prius in the driveway in the leafy suburbs.

John starts scoring a bit of Coke and he's buying it off the local dealer called Pepsi.

John is kicked out of the home, calls Sandra.
Sandra decides that she's not in love with John.
After all who wants to be with a junkie.

John moves back to Mullingar to his parents house, meanwhile Pepsi is banging on Caroline's door looking for the 400 euro John owes...

Sandra and the kid's are petrified and living in fear.

John goes to Zoom Narcotics anonymous meetings suggested by his friend in Mullingar who John opened up to about his problem.

John want's to get sober and clean, but Sandra's still in the 3 bed semi-detached house in the leafy suburbs having to pay Pepsi 600 euro's as the interest in the drug debt increased.

Eventually it's paid off and Pepsi leaves Caroline alone.

Caroline's full of justified resentment, but she's coping ok...
Tuesday evening Caroline gets a message on Facebook from Sandra who decides to tell Caroline she was having an affair with John and she's really sorry.

Caroline's at the end of her tether, she's a single parent and her whole life is in turmoil.

She's thinking of moving back to Killarney and be closer to her parents and extended family...

John trying to sort his life out and is away from dodge...

Who comes first the addict or the family ???

There's husband's and wife's all over the country as you're reading this now suffering from addiction and it's destruction...

Isn't it great that we're all sitting at home safe in our ivory towers...

24-04-2020 1:29am

AulWan wrote: »

You cited the experience of 3 adopted people you claim to know, and on that basis, you think you know how ALL adopted people feel, and what is constructive, or not, for them.

Wow. I'm pretty amazed at your hypocrisy. You voiced a position of knowledge due to being over 50 but offered no details beyond that. Even when I queried where that knowledge was coming from. Whereas my knowledge is insufficient. Because, well... just because you say so. :rolleyes:

I didn't say what ALL adopted people feel, believe or think. I spoke of the experiences I have had from conversations with them. I've also read from a number of sources about adoption when I had to deal with my cousins concerns. Once more, you're mounting some kind of self-appointed moral pedestal to cast judgement over someone who disagrees with you. Honestly, I find your superiority rather disgraceful.

[edit: You do realise your accusation that I think I know what all adopted people believe, could easily be leveled at you? Gosh. The double standard is somewhat funny.]

I'm just not going to waste any energy going down this path with you.

Suffice to say you are ill informed, and not just on the issues surrounding adoption or children's rights.

You haven't expended any energy at all... to suggest you have, simply shows an inability to engage in a reasonable discussion. Instead, your opinion (based on whatever) is all that matters, and any dissenting voices must be shot down.

Pretty pathetic overall. Why bother posting at all, if you're so unwilling to listen to other people? Meh. Sadly, people with your kind of intolerance to other opinions is becoming more common.

Should junkies be allowed to have children?

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