Cards stolen from wallet, to report?

fantastic98

punisher5112 wrote: »

The bus company couldn't give a fluck and won't report anything.....

If you requested the footage under the new gdpr they could furnish you with all the footage you were present in but everyone else face would be blurred.

If you request footage to be kept for the Gardai to investigate they will do so but you would need to go give a statement.

Highly unlikely they'd ever chase it up though.

Thanks. That's reassuring. I was just wondering why he said he would phone me back.

maestroamado

How much cash was in the wallet?
Were the cards used?

Samuel T. Cogley

Robbery:

Anyone else ever notice the lines are delivered differently at the two different parts of the film with the same scene.

fantastic98

maestroamado wrote: »

How much cash was in the wallet?
Were the cards used?

No cash and cards were not used.

IAMAMORON

No sale.

coylemj

fantastic98 wrote: »

Thought it was a robbery when someone steals my bank card . The wallet was left behind empty.

You were not the victim of a robbery and your wallet was not stolen.

You can get a pass for not understanding the distinction between a robbery and plain theft but to say (as you did in your first post) that 'my wallet was stolen on (a) bus' was misleading.

Your wallet was not stolen, someone picked it up when you left it behind on the seat or the floor and did a runner with your cards, that is known as theft by finding. Someone else then found your (now empty) wallet and handed it to the driver.

But the cards have no intrinsic vaue so unless an attempt was used to fraudently use them, it's debatable whether the person who took them from your wallet could be charged with any offence for the theft of something which is, in effect, worth nothing.

Say you got off the bus at 1 p.m. with your wallet under the seat and not very visible. At 2 p.m., you realise that you've lost your wallet, you're not sure when you had it last so in a state of panic, you phone your banks and get all the cards cancelled. At 3 p.m., I'm on the same bus and spot your wallet under the seat, I check the wallet, quickly remove all the cards (no cash or valuables) and drop the wallet back on the floor. Am I guilty of theft by finding? At the time I found the wallet, all of the cards were intrinsically worthless and practically uselsss so can I be charged with theft by finding? Even if the OP had not yet cancelled the cards when I found the wallet, I could claim in my defence that they might have been cancelled at the (unknown, because I'm not telling!) time I found the wallet. Unless I tried to use the cards, what crime (if any) can I be charged with?

Samuel T. Cogley

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

You'd have to move heaven and earth to get the Guards to investigate a stolen wallet. I wouldn't be worrying your pretty little head about it.

Here's a useful link if it does all go wrong though!

Courts packed with pickpockets daily.

coylemj

coylemj wrote: »

You were not the victim of a robbery and your wallet was not stolen.

You can get a pass for not understanding the distinction between a robbery and plain theft but to say (as you did in your first post) that 'my wallet was stolen on (a) bus' was misleading.

Your wallet was not stolen, someone picked it up when you left it behind on the seat or the floor and did a runner with your cards, that is known as theft by finding. Someone else then found your (now empty) wallet and handed it to the driver.

But the cards have no intrinsic vaue so unless an attempt was used to fraudently use them, it's debatable whether the person who took them from your wallet could be charged with any offence for the theft of something which is, in effect, worth nothing.

Say you got off the bus at 1 p.m. with your wallet under the seat and not very visible. At 2 p.m., you realise that you've lost your wallet, you're not sure when you had it last so in a state of panic, you phone your banks and get all the cards cancelled. At 3 p.m., I'm on the same bus and spot your wallet under the seat, I check the wallet, quickly remove all the cards (no cash or valuables) and drop the wallet back on the floor. Am I guilty of theft by finding? At the time I found the wallet, all of the cards were intrinsically worthless and practically uselsss so can I be charged with theft by finding? Even if the OP had not yet cancelled the cards when I found the wallet, I could claim in my defence that they might have been cancelled at the (unknown, because I'm not telling!) time I found the wallet. Unless I tried to use the cards, what crime (if any) can I be charged with?

It's still Theft or you could be charged with the lesser used offence of 'attempting to commit an indictable offence'. Value is not an essential ingredient for either.

Samuel T. Cogley

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Courts packed with pickpockets daily.

That must be a tad inconvenient.

maestroamado

fantastic98 wrote: »

No cash and cards were not used.

That matter i be thinking is closed.

It really makes no sense, why would someone remove the cards if they had not intended using same.
If it were me i would contact the CC company and ask if any of the cards were presented anywhere or online.




I was talking to a guy recently who said his daughters phone €800 stolen in a small secondary school, he could not understand with all the cameras how they could not find the person who took it.


I said to him, If you were principle of that school would you go to the trouble of finding the culprit as the problem then belong to the school.

coylemj

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

It's still Theft or you could be charged with the lesser used offence of 'attempting to commit an indictable offence'.

And (the quotation marks are yours) 'attempting to commit an indictable offence' is an offence according to what statute?

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Value is not an essential ingredient for either.

If, while standing on the public footpath, I reach in to my neighbour's garden and pick a dandelion, is that theft?

Samuel T. Cogley

coylemj wrote: »

If, while standing on the public footpath, I reach in to my neighbour's garden and pick a dandelion, is that theft?

de minimis non curat lex

coylemj

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

de minimis non curat lex

Say I find a wallet containing credit cards which (unknown to me) have been cancelled, I remove them, pocket them and discard the wallet.

What (if any) crime have I committed?

Anglice tantum responde.

fantastic98

coylemj wrote: »

Say I find a wallet containing credit cards which (unknown to me) have been cancelled, I remove them, pocket them and discard the wallet.

What (if any) crime have I committed?

Anglice tantum responde.

Think it's called theft by finding.

runawaybishop

What was else was in the wallet op? Something you don't want the authorities to find out about?

punisher5112

runawaybishop wrote: »

What was else was in the wallet op? Something you don't want the authorities to find out about?

Condom from 1999

Samuel T. Cogley

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

That must be a tad inconvenient.

Boom boom

coylemj

coylemj wrote: »

Say I find a wallet containing credit cards which (unknown to me) have been cancelled, I remove them, pocket them and discard the wallet.

What (if any) crime have I committed?

Anglice tantum responde.

Section 4, Theft and fraud offences act 2001.

They are the property of another.

fantastic98

punisher5112 wrote: »

Condom from 1999

Absolutely nothing else ..

Samuel T. Cogley

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Section 4, Theft and fraud offences act 2001.

They are the property of another.

Interesting and specific Mens Rea requirements though.

coylemj

coylemj wrote: »

And (the quotation marks are yours) 'attempting to commit an indictable offence' is an offence according to what statute?



If, while standing on the public footpath, I reach in to my neighbour's garden and pick a dandelion, is that theft?

It's contrary to common law.

Yes, the flower is not yours. If it's the back garden I would say it's burglary. Be a hard sell if it was the front garden I would think

There's no argument here. Look up the theft and fraud offences act 2001. Section 4. "a person is guilty of theft if he or she dishonestly appropriates property without the consent of its owner and with the intention of depriving its owner of it."

Removing the cards and throwing the wallet away, it's pretty clear in my opinion

Victor

coylemj wrote: »

Say I find a wallet containing credit cards which (unknown to me) have been cancelled, I remove them, pocket them and discard the wallet.

What (if any) crime have I committed?

Technically I think it would be a larceny, along the lines of depriving the rightful owner of their property, but as people have said, theft by finding.

Bank cards are valuable documents, convertible to cash or goods, even if they have been cancelled.

Anglice tantum responde.

Translation?

Samuel T. Cogley

Victor wrote: »

Translation?

English Answers Only

Victor

Victor wrote: »

Technically I think it would be a larceny, along the lines of depriving the rightful owner of their property, but as people have said, theft by finding.

Bank cards are valuable documents, convertible to cash or goods, even if they have been cancelled.

Translation?

Ah Victor, larceny. Your showing your age 😉

Samuel T. Cogley

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

Interesting and specific Mens Rea requirements though.

Removing just the cards and pocketing them while dumping the wallet meets in my opinion.

Proceeding with a charge on such a minor issue might not be recommended or approved but thats a different question

coylemj

My question (about taking cards which have been cancelled) relates to the issue of what is ‘property’.

If the item (the dandelion in my neighbour’s garden) has zero value then you’d assume that taking it does not constitute a crime. So what about a credit card or two which have been reported lost and which have been cancelled when I find them in a bus and take them? The bank doesn’t want them back and if the owner is ever reunited with them, they will slice them in two and toss them in the bin.

Bizarrely, the Theft Act 2001 uses the word ‘property’ in the definition so that’s no help. Dr. Johnson would not be pleased.

So come on folks, what is ‘property’?

coylemj

coylemj wrote: »

My question (about taking cards which have been cancelled) relates to the issue of what is ‘property’.

If the item (the dandelion in my neighbour’s garden) has zero value then you’d assume that taking it does not constitute a crime. So what about a credit card or two which have been reported lost and which have been cancelled when I find them in a bus and take them? The bank doesn’t want them back and if the owner is ever reunited with them, they will slice them in two and toss them in the bin.

Bizarrely, the Theft Act 2001 uses the word ‘property’ in the definition so that’s no help. Dr. Johnson would not be pleased.

So come on folks, what is ‘property’?

There is no ingredient of value in section 4. No person needs to be financially down unlike section 6 and 7.

Property, dunno why your asking for suggestions when a dictionary will do just fine and where it doesn't, the courts will decide.

A physical bank card may not hold value but is not free to produce. As a result, the card company takes a financial hit when they are lost.

Your argument appears to be that you can only steal something that has monetary value but that's simple not required in the current account not did it appear in the common law larceny to my knowledge. It's owned by someone else, simple as.

coylemj

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Your argument appears to be that you can only steal something that has monetary value but that's simple not required in the current account not did it appear in the common law larceny to my knowledge. It's owned by someone else, simple as.

No need to go back to common law. Before the Theft Act 2001 was passed, the situation was clear: The Larceny Act 1916 (repealed by the Theft Act 2001) stated that something had to have 'value' to be capable of being stolen.

I'm simply asking if anyone knows if the legal meaning of the term 'property' (as used in the Theft Act 2001) has been trashed out in the courts. I appreciate that you're trying to contribute to the discussion but seriously, telling me to look it up in a dictionary doesn't help.

ohnonotgmail

coylemj wrote: »

No need to go back to common law. Before the Theft Act 2001 was passed, the situation was clear: The Larceny Act 1916 (repealed by the Theft Act 2001) stated that something had to have 'value' to be capable of being stolen.

I'm simply asking if anyone knows if the legal meaning of the term 'property' (as used in the Theft Act 2001) has been trashed out in the courts. I appreciate that you're trying to contribute to the discussion but seriously, telling me to look it up in a dictionary doesn't help.

absent any definition in the legislation the dictionary definition is the relevant one.

coylemj

coylemj wrote: »

No need to go back to common law. Before the Theft Act 2001 was passed, the situation was clear: The Larceny Act 1916 (repealed by the Theft Act 2001) stated that something had to have 'value' to be capable of being stolen.

I'm simply asking if anyone knows if the legal meaning of the term 'property' (as used in the Theft Act 2001) has been trashed out in the courts. I appreciate that you're trying to contribute to the discussion but seriously, telling me to look it up in a dictionary doesn't help.

Granted but value need not be monetary. Sentimental comes into play. Possible future or possible value perhaps.