Special leave covid19 public service

Abba987

Realistically how long can this covid leave last? Another year ? Its just not possible to have hundreds of public servants on this open ended leave. This virus is not going anywhere. Workplaces have to be adapted to allow social distancing and appropriate hygiene and if necessary work from home but just not working and still being paid is not a long term option

horsebox7

I have no laptop or broadband so cant work from home unfortunately.

So even though l am on special leave as i have an underlying health condition can l now be compelled to go back to work in an office environment?

To me even if there are social distancing measures in place in an office in my opinion it isnt acceptable as social distancing is standard procedure for everyone and for those with underlying health conditions more should be done in terms of protection.

Is there any obligation on the employer to provide a laptop and broadband for an employee on special leave on medical grounds to work from home?

Can anyone tell me in the updated april 9th document where it says cocooning needs to be certified by a specialist? I see it says cocooning can be done by self declaration but if employer has any doubts the occupational health officer in the local authority can be referred to.

horsebox7

Shane Fitz wrote: »

You can't be compelled to work. However the status of your special leave is subject to review. Given that new guidelines issued on 9th, what was good enough then may not be good enough now. And as has been said earlier.. only a Specialist can state you are in the vulnerable category. Not HR, line manager and not a GP
If at the time you couldn't attend for work and it wasnt possible or practical for you to work from home in your current role it was reasonable at the time to put you on special leave.
That would always have only been a short term situation.
Since than there have been updated guidance.. and the latest ones are suggesting those in your circumstances are offered redeployment to other duties, other wise it could be unpaid leave.
You cannot refuse the redeployment, it would fall into disciplinary.
However any redeployment should recognise your own particular circumstances and offer you an appropriately safe role.
Remember it will be the recieveing side who ultimately decides if it can facilitate that.. your own dept are just offering a person for a role.

Thanks.

There is no option on the redeployment survey to say you are on special leave on medical grounds and need to work from home. Therefore by default by submitting this limited survey you are consenting to work in an office environment.

the14thwarrior

its not on that circular.
its a different document.
just google gov.ie cocooning.
its all there.


the government directions on cocooning must be followed by public servant employees and employers.

do you meet that criteria? if you do, your consultant will give you a letter.
if you don't, see my previous posts?

in general, you must meet strict criteria to meet the cocooning criteria, and thus, you can be exempt from going to a workplace.
you can work from home if you want.
lots of people are doing this.

AulWan

horsebox7 wrote: »

I have no laptop or broadband so cant work from home unfortunately.

So even though l am on special leave as i have an underlying health condition can l now be compelled to go back to work in an office environment?

To me even if there are social distancing measures in place in an office in my opinion it isnt acceptable as social distancing is standard procedure for everyone and for those with underlying health conditions more should be done in terms of protection.

Is there any obligation on the employer to provide a laptop and broadband for an employee on special leave on medical grounds to work from home?

Can anyone tell me in the updated april 9th document where it says cocooning needs to be certified by a specialist? I see it says cocooning can be done by self declaration but if employer has any doubts the occupational health officer in the local authority can be referred to.

There is a footnote on complicance with the provisions of special leave with pay.

3 Bona fide in relation to a representation or communication means in good faith and well founded in fact. The employer reserves the right to request further confirmation.

So basically, yes, they can ask for proof from a specialist, if they want.

Abba987

horsebox7 wrote: »

I have no laptop or broadband so cant work from home unfortunately.

So even though l am on special leave as i have an underlying health condition can l now be compelled to go back to work in an office environment?

To me even if there are social distancing measures in place in an office in my opinion it isnt acceptable as social distancing is standard procedure for everyone and for those with underlying health conditions more should be done in terms of protection.

Is there any obligation on the employer to provide a laptop and broadband for an employee on special leave on medical grounds to work from home?

Can anyone tell me in the updated april 9th document where it says cocooning needs to be certified by a specialist? I see it says cocooning can be done by self declaration but if employer has any doubts the occupational health officer in the local authority can be referred to.

Id say theyll give you a laptop no bother.
How long do you expect to stay out of work on full pay?
And i would hope at the very least a consultant would be deciding you are fit for work in this situation but your occ health may make the decision

the14thwarrior

although it may happen, i doubt occ.health will be making a decision on this.
they are not in a position to do this, is my understanding.
they are too busy doing other things and not there to sign off on sick certs for employees at this time.
in any event, a sick cert is always needed by a gp in normal times, occ. health role is not to give a sick cert, and policy would dictate this.
given these stressful times they are especially not able to take on individual cases
they will always refer back to gp or consultant.

occ. health can advise but i really don't think that they will be getting involved in this case

AulWan

horsebox7 wrote: »

Is there any obligation on the employer to provide a laptop and broadband for an employee on special leave on medical grounds to work from home?.

My department provided laptops. Basic enough models, you wouldn't be gaming on them, but perfectly sufficient for work purposes.

Broadband can be gotten for as little as €20 a month.

You have to meet them half way.

Speaking as someone who has three underlying conditions myself, if I were you I would be arranging for broadband to be installed at home as soon as possible and asking for a laptop and to be assigned remote work, and stop all the faffing around.

DM_7

horsebox7 wrote: »

I have no laptop or broadband so cant work from home unfortunately.

So even though l am on special leave as i have an underlying health condition can l now be compelled to go back to work in an office environment?

To me even if there are social distancing measures in place in an office in my opinion it isnt acceptable as social distancing is standard procedure for everyone and for those with underlying health conditions more should be done in terms of protection.

Is there any obligation on the employer to provide a laptop and broadband for an employee on special leave on medical grounds to work from home?

Can anyone tell me in the updated april 9th document where it says cocooning needs to be certified by a specialist? I see it says cocooning can be done by self declaration but if employer has any doubts the occupational health officer in the local authority can be referred to.

If you got broadband sorted and access to equipment on your own coin or through supply by work you can ease the uncertainty over the longer term and work from home. You won't be able to avail of full pay in the longer term while not assigned work.

In terms of the current position, special leave with pay, at this point is only available to those who have symptoms or those who have tested positive. If your Department have put you forward for reassignment then you are probably not on official special leave at all at this stage. It appears you are simply staying home in line with the current stay home requirements of non essential workers without access to carry out your current role.

The circular is clear in the levels of allowing people to stay home, reasignment and working from home.

Ongoing, if you are in the extremely vulnerable category the current circular says your current department need to facilitate you to work from home to the maximum extent possible after confirming you meet this category - you need to engage with them to have this category assigned and confirmed so they can start to set up a suitable role and equipment or material in place so you can work from home.

If you are in the lower category they can ask you back to the workplace, once the current non essential worker scenario is eased, in line with HSE advice on distancing and with flexible arrangements. If reassigned to an essential worker role the new department can ask you to attend now.

Basically, do whatever you can to be ready to work from home as that appears to be in your best interest in the weeks ahead.

AndrewJRenko

AulWan wrote: »

My department provided laptops. Basic enough models, you wouldn't be gaming on them, but perfectly sufficient for work purposes.

Broadband can be gotten for as little as €20 a month.

You have to meet them half way.

Speaking as someone who has three underlying conditions myself, if I were you I would be arranging for broadband to be installed at home as soon as possible and asking for a laptop and to be assigned remote work, and stop all the faffing around.

It would probably be easier for the Department to provide you with a mobile phone, which could be used to provide a hotspot than to pay for home broadband. The latter option opens up a whole raft of policy and process issues.

Scienceless

AulWan wrote: »

Speaking as someone who has three underlying conditions myself, if I were you I would be arranging for broadband to be installed at home as soon as possible and asking for a laptop and to be assigned remote work, and stop all the faffing around.

Good advice. When the dust settles on this whole thing, all these SLWP absences will be reviewed in detail.

AulWan

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

It would probably be easier for the Department to provide you with a mobile phone, which could be used to provide a hotspot than to pay for home broadband. The latter option opens up a whole raft of policy and process issues.

I meant that the OP woud pay for broadband themselves, not their department foot the bill for it. If they did that for one, it could definitely cause issues!

I think its a case of working with them, and I'd see this as meeting them halfway.

A laptop can be handed back when the period of time working from home is over.

the14thwarrior

it might be just easier to return to work and follow standard precautions.

at the risk of sounding challenging, every other worker is / are claiming special health conditions that are not that special in actual fact - yes they are health conditions - but nonetheless doesn't mean you can't go to work.


can't justify issuing laptops and mobile phones to staff who would not normally need them nor use them.
no need to get into mobile hotspots and broadband

embraer170

You can get a GoMo sim with 80GB of data for €12.99/month. That should be enough for almost all work cases, assuming you get good enough mobile reception in your home. Ask for a laptop.

Employees (public and private sector) will be paying the price for the Corona for years to come.

DM_7

the14thwarrior wrote: »

it might be just easier to return to work and follow standard precautions.

at the risk of sounding challenging, every other worker is / are claiming special health conditions that are not that special in actual fact - yes they are health conditions - but nonetheless doesn't mean you can't go to work.


can't justify issuing laptops and mobile phones to staff who would not normally need them nor use them.
no need to get into mobile hotspots and broadband

Circular covers the variables and has the more extreme needs to stay at home covered and the employer should provide help.

While less severe can go to to work (once current essential rules are eased) again in line with distancing or be facilitated to work from home (to be facilitated it would need to suit the job and the person would probably be naturally expected to have own equipment and internet access).

Richmond Ultra

AulWan wrote: »

My department provided laptops. Basic enough models, you wouldn't be gaming on them, but perfectly sufficient for work purposes.

Broadband can be gotten for as little as €20 a month.

You have to meet them half way.

Speaking as someone who has three underlying conditions myself, if I were you I would be arranging for broadband to be installed at home as soon as possible and asking for a laptop and to be assigned remote work, and stop all the faffing around.

You can get a tax rebate of 3.70 a day working from home. That will cover the broadband. Your only being awkward saying give me full whack but not work.

horsebox7

Richmond Ultra wrote: »

You can get a tax rebate of 3.70 a day working from home. That will cover the broadband. Your only being awkward saying give me full whack but not work.

Thanks. Do you know how to apply for rebate? Ive been trying continuously to source a laptop from work for a number of weeks.

I believe public health comes first generally speaking.

Richmond Ultra

horsebox7 wrote: »

Thanks. Do you know how to apply for rebate? Ive been trying continuously to source a laptop from work for a number of weeks.

I believe public health comes first generally speaking.

Citizens information have all the details online for applying it.

Edit: it's 3.20 a day not 3.70

AulWan

There is a thread on the tax rebate here on Boards. Apparently its not easy to claim at all.

Working From Home Allowance

Before adding anthing else, Horsebox7, would you be willing to install broadband at your own expense, and maybe buy a laptop if your dept could arrange work you could do from home? Yes or No answer ?

A laptop doesn't have to be expensive or all bells and whistles. I'm currently working from home on a refurb laptop that I bought second hand from a seller on adverts (I can recommend) that I paid €125 for.

DM_7

Chromebook works grand for me to work from home.

This situation has created many inequities from those who have to work, to those getting full pay at home not working to people who want to but are not allowed to work and many others.

As said, not to challenge people, but there is give and take here and people not willing to give may get away with some things initially but end up worse off later. People in public service won't be fully paid to not work longer term.

For example those not making effort to work from home will be redeployed to essential roles and have to go to work. Some people who have made the effort to work from home are likely to be allowed to continue that initially to aid social distancing when things ease back and those who did not make the effort will be back in the workplace first.

I know of a case in an essential area who cried no broadband and is not going into the office while colleagues are working from home.

AulWan

DM_7 wrote: »

As said, not to challenge people, but there is give and take here and people not willing to give may get away with some things initially but end up worse off later. People in public service won't be fully paid to not work longer term.

100% agree.

horsebox7

Thanks. I have no problem meeting half way however it is clear that as of yet there is no definitive answer.

AulWan

You really don't think so? I think the answer is staring you in the face.

No, they can't compel you to work.

But if you don't do everything possible to make yourself available, they don't have to keep paying you.

Even someone who does qualify medically to cocoon (and those conditions are laid out clearly) can work from home, with a laptop and broadband.

horsebox7

AulWan wrote: »

You really don't think so? I think the answer is staring you in the face.

No, they can't compel you to work.

But if you don't do everything possible to make yourself available, they don't have to keep paying you.

Even someone who does qualify medically to cocoon (and those conditions are laid out clearly) can work from home, with a laptop and broadband.

Then it seems you can therefore in fact be compelled to work.

AulWan

I guess ultimately, its up to each individual, really.

If you can afford a loss of income, you won't be forced to work.

the14thwarrior

horsebox7 wrote: »

Then it seems you can therefore in fact be compelled to work.

you can if you don't meet the cocooning criteria and provide the appropriate documentation

which you probably don't, (otherwise you would have let us know you meet the criteria) and won't or can't get the documentation (which is not that hard in fairness, and which you haven't tried - from a specialist, not GP, not occ. health)

which means they can compel you to work or use sick leave or leave with no pay

these are the rules as of today.
the Nursing homes have no staff left (and to an extent some in the hospital) because of such staff, and their concerns are very real i.e. dealing first hand with covid confirmed or suspect or at high risk

you don't meet either criteria, neither does your workplace.
go back to work or take leave at your own expense.

AndrewJRenko

Richmond Ultra wrote: »

You can get a tax rebate of 3.70 a day working from home. That will cover the broadband. Your only being awkward saying give me full whack but not work.

Not quite true. You can get a tax rebate of up to 3.20 per day of the extra expenses that you incur as a result of working from home. This is usually intended to cover heating and lighting costs. If you're going to claim broadband under this, you'd want to be sure that it is only used for work purposes.

DM_7 wrote: »

Chromebook works grand for me to work from home.

If you're getting a device specifically to work from home, make sure that whatever device you choose supports your WFH system, such as Citrix. I know Citrix works on Windows, Mac, iPad - not sure about Chromebook.

DM_7

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Not quite true. You can get a tax rebate of up to 3.20 per day of the extra expenses that you incur as a result of working from home. This is usually intended to cover heating and lighting costs. If you're going to claim broadband under this, you'd want to be sure that it is only used for work purposes.



If you're getting a device specifically to work from home, make sure that whatever device you choose supports your WFH system, such as Citrix. I know Citrix works on Windows, Mac, iPad - not sure about Chromebook.

Yes Citrix works on chromebook using the app, the app is the same as the one you would use on a tablet - slightly different to a windows system but still works very well (I have both options at home but use the chromebook as it has better battery and more user friendly for other apps for web meetings etc).

But your general point is a good one other systems may not work so well on a chromebook.

horsebox7

Union got back to say ic you are on medically certified absence which l am with special leave you cant be redeployed.

AulWan

I would refer back to your HR at this stage, then.

I think everyone here has answered your questions as best they can, with the information you have volunteered.