Survey: Are you aware of NeedToCharge?

Sabre Man

Please answer 3 questions about this app:

https://no.surveymonkey.com/r/YHQDVW2

liamog

Mod Note: Survey approved, Sabre Man is not connected to NeedToCharge but is gathering data for a future episode on the app for his YouTube channel

ELM327

Completed survey.

Aware of it, not interested in using it.

Calahonda52

Not interested in it or being prostituted on the screwtube alter:mad:

unkel

Filled it in yesterday. Wasn't aware of it (but there were a few other ones before it, weren't there?) and not interested in it.

redcup342

Not really arsed, I leave my mobile number on a bit of paper on the window

Sabre Man

redcup342 wrote: »

Not really arsed, I leave my mobile number on a bit of paper on the window

That's also a good solution. I've been doing the same.

DrPhilG

For those not interested, can I ask why?

No idea what the "prostituted on the altar" bit was about.

I've never understood the opposition to needtocharge. There are zero downsides to having the app installed. Zip, zero, none.

You might never have an opportunity to use it, and you might never receive a request. But so what if you don't. I'd understand the opposition if it was a paid app, but for free, why not?

Personally I've used it twice in about 9 months. Once someone sent me a request and I answered, once I used it to contact someone and warn them that they were about to get a ticket.

That's 2 instances where I was able to help someone out.

unkel

I almost never need to public charge. And when I do, I am in my car. Or at a supercharger with 7 empty stalls beside me

DrPhilG

Sabre Man wrote: »

Please answer 3 questions about this app:

https://no.surveymonkey.com/r/YHQDVW2

I filled in the survey, after the 3 questions it came up with something foreign, "ferdig" maybe? So I don't know if my answers went in or not.

DrPhilG

unkel wrote: »

Or at a supercharger with 7 empty stalls beside me

Show off, lol

Sabre Man

DrPhilG wrote: »

I filled in the survey, after the 3 questions it came up with something foreign, "ferdig" maybe? So I don't know if my answers went in or not.

"Ferdig" means "Done. I tried changing it but was unsuccessful. Thanks for voting.

DrPhilG

unkel wrote: »

Filled it in yesterday. Wasn't aware of it (but there were a few other ones before it, weren't there?) and not interested in it.

There was one before it, ChargeBump. It had a pretty good following, but the developer retired and stopped supporting it so it died.

NeedToCharge is better anyway. ChargeBump didn't work well because the system was fussy about the format for Irish plates. The developer of needtocharge took the failings of ChargeBump on board and made sure that it would work internationally.

DrPhilG

redcup342 wrote: »

Not really arsed, I leave my mobile number on a bit of paper on the window

I used to do that, I had a dry wipe board and would write my number and expected time of return. 2 problems with that though.

1 - what if I'm late, my plans change, I get held up?

2 - I kept losing the dry wipe marker or forgetting to write a note.

With needtocharge you register, print a notification disc and display it in the car. Then forget about it. Permanently reachable at all times. No need to check in, no need to write a note, no need to leave my number on show.

unkel

It's not going to work. In the early years, sure there was a sense of community and helping each other out. Same way as there was pretty decent charging etiquette. You talked to others at a fast charge point and based on need you would stop early or let someone else ahead in the queue. But that evaporated quickly from early 2018 when a lot more EVs came on the scene, a lot of which needed a long time to fast charge (well over an hour instead of the usual 20-30 minutes most owners took before then) and a lot of the new owners ignorant to the plight of others and leaving their cars at fast chargers (where only 1 car could charge at a time) for hours on end

DrPhilG

There's no doubt that a sadly high number of people in society are selfish assholes, but that doesn't mean we should all give in with the majority and not make any effort to be helpful!

Plus I'd like to think that a lot of the charger abuse is down to ignorance and lack of thought rather than a deliberate act of selfishness.

redcup342

DrPhilG wrote: »

I used to do that, I had a dry wipe board and would write my number and expected time of return. 2 problems with that though.

1 - what if I'm late, my plans change, I get held up?

2 - I kept losing the dry wipe marker or forgetting to write a note.

With needtocharge you register, print a notification disc and display it in the car. Then forget about it. Permanently reachable at all times. No need to check in, no need to write a note, no need to leave my number on show.

I think in Ireland its probably not a big deal, here on the continent I have 4 cards and around 10 apps already for different charging providers.

Don't need another app, number is fine, they text and ask when I'll be back if they really need it.

DrPhilG

redcup342 wrote: »

Don't need another app

Not having a dig, but this is another position I don't understand.

Even the most basic of smartphones can have hundred if not thousands of apps installed. Whether you need them or not.

NeedToCharge uses 12mb of storage.

In comparison the ESB app uses 60mb and Plugshare 119mb.

That said, if you leave your number all is good. So long as there is some way to contact you.

I just personally find needtocharge to be an extremely simple solution.

redcup342

DrPhilG wrote: »

Not having a dig, but this is another position I don't understand.

Even the most basic of smartphones can have hundred if not thousands of apps installed. Whether you need them or not.

NeedToCharge uses 12mb of storage.

In comparison the ESB app uses 60mb and Plugshare 119mb.

That said, if you leave your number all is good. So long as there is some way to contact you.

I just personally find needtocharge to be an extremely simple solution.

Ya but a piece of paper with my phone number works just fine, they can send a WhatsApp message asking how long I’ll be.

Nothing against it but it’s just another little thing I need to do that I don’t really feel is necessary to start a charging session.

DrPhilG

redcup342 wrote: »

Ya but a piece of paper with my phone number works just fine, they can send a WhatsApp message asking how long I’ll be.

Nothing against it but it’s just another little thing I need to do that I don’t really feel is necessary to start a charging session.

But I bet you have written more than one note with your number on it, whether one got lost, got tatty etc.

Orebro

Likewise, I rarely use public chargers and always stay with the car. Once or twice I went to grab a quick takeaway coffee and left my mobile number on the dash - couldn’t be bothered firing up an app tbh.

DrPhilG

Orebro wrote: »

couldn’t be bothered firing up an app tbh.

That's the point though.

You don't need to fire up an app.

Once you're registered, you are always contactable. You don't need to fire up the app, you don't need to check in, you don't even need to install the app at all as needtocharge is also web based.

DrPhilG

PS @Sabre Man

If you're looking for someone to interview for your episode, the developer Chris has done a few already so provided you could set up a video link he might be open to it if he has time.

You could gather questions (or even criticisms) here and on Facebook and then hold a live Q&A with him.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cq_3Rnwza2M

He'll possibly shoot me for suggesting this, but he's used to it by now.

Laviski

Just a question DrPhilG, are you connected to NeedToCharge in any way?

There are lot of apps out there that would work really well if it had mass adoption, doesn't happen. If people don't want to install it, they don't want to install it.

unkel

Laviski wrote: »

There are lot of apps out there that would work really well if it had mass adoption, doesn't happen. If people don't want to install it, they don't want to install it.

That's the problem. It would have worked (and worked to an extent) a few years ago when there was a bit of a community. Too late for that now. It will never work. And there shouldn't be much of a need for it anyway, now the fast chargers are all empty (because we have to pay for them now). Do the same with the slow chargers, and they will be empty too. And of course we need to rapidly build up our fast charging infrastructure for when EVs are starting to be sold by the tens of thousands per year or more.

I don't think it is relevant if DrPhilG is or is not connected to the app. It is clear to me that anyone promoting it does so in an altruistic way. To benefit all EV owners.

DrPhilG

unkel wrote: »

And of course we need to rapidly build up our fast charging infrastructure for when EVs are starting to be sold by the tens of thousands per year or more.

The answer is in the question there a bit...

EVs are growing in popularity. Gone are the days when total numbers in Ireland were in the thousands. I think there were around 4k total when I got my Leaf in 2015. Now EV sales probably hit that number annually.

Yet the infrastructure is not growing at the same rate. Ecars have finally pulled the finger out and started to invest, but all 50kw chargers and still not enough to cope with increased demand.

unkel wrote: »

And there shouldn't be much of a need for it anyway, now the fast chargers are all empty (because we have to pay for them now).

ChargeBump was popular in the UK in its prime, despite chargers being pay to use. As above, there will always be more cars than chargers and there will always be demand.

unkel wrote: »

It would have worked (and worked to an extent) a few years ago when there was a bit of a community. Too late for that now. It will never work.

Define "never work"?

I've successfully used it twice. Others have benefitted, for example:



If this was a paid app, or one full of ads and spam, or if you had to make the effort to check in each time, or both users had to be registered etc, then you'd have to ask the question of whether it's worth it for (in my case) 2 successful requests in 10 months.

But:
*It's free
*The app has no spam or adverts (the owner has a Tesla referral code listed but I only wish I could use it, lol)
*you don't have to check in
*you don't even have to download the app if you don't want, just use the website and get email alerts rather than app push notifications.
*the other person doesn't need to be registered to send you a request

So yeah, some think it's a waste of time, I think the potential upsides (scarce or otherwise) are worth the very small effort of registering and displaying a notice.

DrPhilG

Laviski wrote: »

Just a question DrPhilG, are you connected to NeedToCharge in any way?

Depends on your definition of "connected to", lol.

Go to 15:47 of that PlugSeeker interview for the explanation.

Basically I became aware of the app via one of the UK EV owners pages. I had previously been registered on ChargeBump, but in 4 years of EV driving had never been "bumped" nor successfully bumped anyone.

One reason was lack of user base, another was that ChargeBump didn't adapt to different number plates. If my reg is 162 DL, and you enter 162-DL, it just wouldn't work. Too much guess work and variables.

I tried contacting the developer without much joy and eventually ChargeBump went bump when the developer retired and (I think) emigrated.

When I found out about NTC, I did the same thing. Contacted the developer, asked about Irish plate format issues, and he got back to me right away. Explained how it should work, (the system ignores spaces and hyphens so only reads the numbers and letters) and then tested it with me to confirm.

I went back and forth with a few other issues and helped him test a few Android queries as the app was fairly new on android having been ios only initially.

I was very impressed with his openness to suggestions. Someone else on Facebook suggested offering other licence plate formats rather than the standard UK design, so Chris went and added the European format plate, and all (or at least most) of the country codes and gave the option in the app to change your plate. Makes no difference to the functionality, just a nice design touch in response to a request.

The site gives the option to download a tax disc sized notice for your car. I laminated one and added a suction cup to hang in the car. Like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UlrckRTyXs8

I posted the picture online, a few people commented on it, so I offered to do the same for anyone who wanted one. No charge, just pay for the postage.

That has ended up with me posting out more than 150 discs to individuals in Ireland, England, Scotland, Wales, Belgium, Germany, Denmark and Holland.

I've also sent about 200 discs, laminated adhesive signs and other documents to EV owners clubs in the UK and Holland.

When the first European request came in, following that PlugSeeker video, I helped to get translations in place and Chris has now expanded the site to offer documents in 8 languages.

Overall the app has grown by nearly 4000 users in less than a year and with the European language options only coming in recently, that should continue to grow. I tagged a few chargers in Spain recently while on holiday, lol.

So long story short, I'm not connected as in app owner or developer, I'm just an enthusiastic supporter.

unkel wrote: »

I don't think it is relevant if DrPhilG is or is not connected to the app. It is clear to me that anyone promoting it does so in an altruistic way. To benefit all EV owners.

Exactly. It is a free app, non profit, no adverts etc. I promote it because I see many positives to it and zero downsides. I may only have used it successfully twice, (that's twice in under a year which beats the 0 in 4 years with ChargeBump) but both of those occasions helped another driver out and in one case, saved him a parking ticket.

When something is free, requires no effort beyond the initial registration, and has the potential to make someone's life easier even once, its a no brainer to me.

liamog

My own experience of NeedToCharge sent an alert to someone at Dublin Port, their Leaf was in the later stages of charging (6kW on the meter). I'd sat around and waited for 10 mins, then chanced NeedToCharge, the owner replied, came out, and finished their charge.

McGiver

redcup342 wrote: »

Ya but a piece of paper with my phone number works just fine, they can send a WhatsApp message asking how long I’ll be.

Nothing against it but it’s just another little thing I need to do that I don’t really feel is necessary to start a charging session.

Sounds kinda backward. It's like saying why we need email if we can post letters on a piece of paper. Integrated solution is always better.

Also I don't want to share my number with the whole world!

McGiver

This whole thing imho shows a huge difference between UK and Ireland in terms of manners & community efforts. They generally do more charity and community stuff (cooperative movement for example etc). The Brits may have very many issues I don't want to name, but this charity/volunteering & manners culture are one thing I like about them.

It should be easier to do these things in Ireland given the tiny size where everyone almost knows everyone, but in reality it's not. Why it can't work in a smaller country makes no sense to me.

DrPhilG

Well in fairness McGiver, the main reason ChargeBump never took off here is because it didn't work here.

And of the 150+ laminated discs I've posted out to individuals:
England - 79
Ireland - 34
N Ireland - 9
Scotland - 8
Wales - 2

Netherlands - 14
Belgium - 2
Denmark - 2
Germany - 1
*

So given the population, Ireland is doing OK. And it's not just because I'm in Ireland, I'm active on UK Facebook pages too.




* yes I'm a nerd and I counted.

redcup342

DrPhilG wrote: »

But I bet you have written more than one note with your number on it, whether one got lost, got tatty etc.

The notepad I got for free from some conference and I think the pen came from a Pub.

I don't really see a need to replace that method of leaving contact info,

I only rent EVs though, so my number plate changes quite a lot.

DrPhilG

redcup342 wrote: »

I only rent EVs though, so my number plate changes quite a lot.

Interestingly I just sent a batch of stuff to a guy in the Netherlands in the same position. I think he's a reviewer, so he regularly has different cars and travels over Europe a lot.

He does use the system, but with a standard QR code on the disc rather than a personalised one. Then when he changes the car, he just changes the reg number he has linked to his account.

He doesn't like just leaving a number for 2 reasons. 1, he doesn't like leaving his number on display and 2, he travels across Europe quite a bit and not many will be keen on calling an international number to ask when the charger will be available.

So NTC works well for him.

DrPhilG

redcup342 wrote: »

The notepad I got for free from some conference and I think the pen came from a Pub.

I wasn't referring to the cost of the method, more the effort required. I used to use a note but invariably they get dirty or tattered, lost etc. So I'd find myself doing a new note fairly regularly, or just forgetting.

NeedToCharge is a one off permanent implementation so ideal for a feckless lazy sod like myself.

Different situation for you though, given the frequent car changes.

September1

I got messages couple times via this app, and experience is poor. One time I rushed to car to move it, but whoever messaged me already left. Other time I could not move car quickly and get some passive aggressive response.

ELM327

There's no "need to refuel" app for petrol.

If I'm charging, it's because I need to be and I was there first. No app/message is going to change that. I have two pages of EV apps on my phone already so I wont be adding another which is not necessary. I'll be in my car (or briefly in the shop) at a fast charger/supercharger/hpc, or if it's a destination charger it's first come first served. My car can take 8-10-20 hours depending on the kW available. If it's a 3kW station for instance it will take over 24 hours. Do you expect me to deal with messages for 24 hours? Nope.

redcup342

DrPhilG wrote: »

Interestingly I just sent a batch of stuff to a guy in the Netherlands in the same position. I think he's a reviewer, so he regularly has different cars and travels over Europe a lot.

He does use the system, but with a standard QR code on the disc rather than a personalised one. Then when he changes the car, he just changes the reg number he has linked to his account.

He doesn't like just leaving a number for 2 reasons. 1, he doesn't like leaving his number on display and 2, he travels across Europe quite a bit and not many will be keen on calling an international number to ask when the charger will be available.

So NTC works well for him.

Germans wouldn't really go for scanning a QR Code and following a link (if they even have a decent mobile signal)

I'm sure if someone really needed it they would send a message, far more reliable than mobile data.

Anyways piece of paper on the dash works for me, I don't think many people even bother doing that.

My number is all over the place on ads when I've been selling stuff online etc.

Pretty sure your Dutch contact has his number on Marktplaats.nl as well so I don't see why he'd be worried.

Sometimes I'm just parked and I don't want to be bothered, like going for a dump or something, in that case I'd leave the notebook in the glovebox.

Laviski

ideas such as this should be incorporated into the apps by the charge point providers. standalone app just isn't going to work as it won't have mass adoption for some of the reasons already listed here.

shame n all that but reinforcements of how great it is etc etc just isn't going to charge their minds but only harden their stance with maybe others following suit.

DrPhilG

September1 wrote: »

One time I rushed to car to move it, but whoever messaged me already left.

Why did you rush to the car?

DrPhilG

ELM327 wrote: »

There's no "need to refuel" app for petrol.

Petrol refuelling doesn't take hours.

ELM327 wrote: »

If I'm charging, it's because I need to be and I was there first. No app/message is going to change that.

No, but an app would enable someone else to find out that you're going to be 5 minutes, 2 hours, all day etc.

September1

DrPhilG wrote: »

Why did you rush to the car?

Because I could and someone needed a charge. It was a slow charger in a little town, so they did not have much alternatives.

DrPhilG

September1 wrote: »

Because I could and someone needed a charge. It was a slow charger in a little town, so they did not have much alternatives.

But did you not message back to tell them? You said that they had gone when you arrived which I assumed meant that you just went back to the car when you got the message, rather than replying. Maybe I picked you up wrong.

ELM327

DrPhilG wrote: »

Petrol refuelling doesn't take hours.



No, but an app would enable someone else to find out that you're going to be 5 minutes, 2 hours, all day etc.

Neither does fast charging.
Destination charging/slow charging is first come first served. I move my car when I am done, and that's it.


No interest in communicating with people.

McGiver

DrPhilG wrote: »

Well in fairness McGiver, the main reason ChargeBump never took off here is because it didn't work here.

And of the 150+ laminated discs I've posted out to individuals:
England - 79
Ireland - 34
N Ireland - 9
Scotland - 8
Wales - 2

Netherlands - 14
Belgium - 2
Denmark - 2
Germany - 1
*

So given the population, Ireland is doing OK. And it's not just because I'm in Ireland, I'm active on UK Facebook pages too.




* yes I'm a nerd and I counted.

Oh right. As in the app didn't work?

McGiver

DrPhilG wrote: »

NeedToCharge is a one off permanent implementation so ideal for a feckless lazy sod like myself.

This exactly was the reason I used it. Don't need to do anything anymore. Put it there and that's it.

DrPhilG

McGiver wrote: »

Oh right. As in the app didn't work?

Yeah ChargeBump didn't work. At least not properly.

If you registered with (for example) 162-DL-123 using hyphens, then I come along and try to send a request but I use spaces 162 DL 123 then it wouldn't work. Or if I leave out spaces and hyphens and just go 162DL123 it wouldn't work.

So basically I'd have to either guess the same format that you used, or try up to 3 different options til I got it right. Some people wouldn't realise the issue and just give up. So it was not much use.

Not sure why it copes better with UK plates, they still have a gap but only 1 in the middle rather than 3 sections like Irish ones.

With needtocharge the app/site automatically makes the format the same by omitting gaps and hyphens and reducing all plates to numbers and letters only. So it works basically anywhere that uses numbers and letters.

Sabre Man

ELM327

The latest installment of the "push this app down our throats"?

Sabre Man

ELM327 wrote: »

The latest installment of the "push this app down our throats"?

Just informing people about what it is and does. Nobody is forcing anyone to use it.

DrPhilG

ELM327 wrote: »

The latest installment of the "push this app down our throats"?

I really don't get why you're so vocally opposed to the app. I know you have no intention of using it, in your own words you "have no interest in communicating with people". But why oppose advertising of the app for those who do have an interest, then they can make their own mind up.

It's free, created and promoted for purely altruistic reasons and has the potential to occasionally make someone's life easier. And the more widely it is known of, the more often those occasions will be. So well done to the EV TV Ireland lads for spreading the word.

For years EV drivers have said "leave a note with your number" and I don't recall too many people complaining about that. This app just does the same thing only easier.

redcup342

DrPhilG wrote: »

I really don't get why you're so vocally opposed to the app.

It's free, created and promoted for purely altruistic reasons and has the potential to occasionally make someone's life easier. And the more widely it is known of, the more often those occasions will be. So well done to the EV TV Ireland lads for spreading the word.

For years EV drivers have said "leave a note with your number" and I don't recall too many people complaining about that. This app just does the same thing only easier.

It's filling a need that isn't there.
Honestly I don't want another app, I have enough Apps.

The only time I leave my number is when I'm topping up and might not get back before the end of the charging session. Other than that I don't want people contacting me to ask when I'll be back.

For Rapid charging I don't usually leave the car anyway

I feel like the Jehovahs are at my front door