American response

NSAman

Beholders wrote: »

Really what struck me is that the USA have 5% of the population and yet seem to have 1/3 of the deaths, that to me seems alarming, but in fairness, their figures are similar to the rest of the world and what you would expect, for example deaths per 100,000 isn't far off the average in the world, neither is their testing per 100,000. So I just wondering why a country with 5% of the population is actually showing 33.3333% of the deaths in the world, but yet still feels they should open up. This isn't a question about trump, but one about how does this maths add up?

The figures are not accurate that is why.

try getting a test here where I am. Impossible UNLESS you are showing signs.

Where I am there are a total of less that 20 cases and zero deaths. All those cases are travel related and/or people coming to the area to second homes. Ask for a test and the answer is no.

Unlike the rest of the world where there are supports for unemployed people, Americans have little option but to work. The unemployment systems have collapsed and trying to get unemployment assistance at the moment is practically impossible. Hence, people want to open up to work.

Is that right or wrong..... well... thats another question.

MadYaker

NSAman wrote: »

The figures are not accurate that is why.

try getting a test here where I am. Impossible UNLESS you are showing signs.

Where I am there are a total of less that 20 cases and zero deaths. All those cases are travel related and/or people coming to the area to second homes. Ask for a test and the answer is no.

Unlike the rest of the world where there are supports for unemployed people, Americans have little option but to work. The unemployment systems have collapsed and trying to get unemployment assistance at the moment is practically impossible. Hence, people want to open up to work.

Is that right or wrong..... well... thats another question.

With even the worst hit state of New York estimating that only 20% of the population had the virus it seems inevitable to me that case numbers will rise again once the country is back to normal. Do you think further outbreaks could lead to more shutdowns? Georgia is already seeing an uptick in cases.

Beholders

NSAman wrote: »

The figures are not accurate that is why.

try getting a test here where I am. Impossible UNLESS you are showing signs.

Where I am there are a total of less that 20 cases and zero deaths. All those cases are travel related and/or people coming to the area to second homes. Ask for a test and the answer is no.

Unlike the rest of the world where there are supports for unemployed people, Americans have little option but to work. The unemployment systems have collapsed and trying to get unemployment assistance at the moment is practically impossible. Hence, people want to open up to work.

Is that right or wrong..... well... thats another question.

Yep I sort of getting that, which is horrible, and hence the reason I do understand why states are opening up and probably should if the have low levels of the virus, I get that, really I want to know how people from the USA are seeing this, obviously as you pointed out each state is different. But really how are you guys doing? All we have is the media which I ignore

NSAman

MadYaker wrote: »

With even the worst hit state of New York estimating that only 20% of the population had the virus it seems inevitable to me that case numbers will rise again once the country is back to normal. Do you think further outbreaks could lead to more shutdowns? Georgia is already seeing an uptick in cases.

The problem here is that different states have different rules. As I have stated in previous posts, I live between three states.

The state I am in if I go to the shop (eg Walmart) I HAVE to wear a mask or be refused entry. If I travel 13 miles I am in a new state and that is not the case in all businesses. my dentist is very ver careful about this and is located in the same state but refuses to let people in taking temperatures and having only half her clientel in premises at one time, i.e one room is cleaned while someone is being looked at in another room.

I honestly think may states will just continue no matter what. States like where I live that have softer openings with restrictions will fair better... but who knows!

Beholders wrote: »

Yep I sort of getting that, which is horrible, and hence the reason I do understand why states are opening up and probably should if the have low levels of the virus, I get that, really I want to know how people from the USA are seeing this, obviously as you pointed out each state is different. But really how are you guys doing? All we have is the media which I ignore

Honestly, it all depends on the location. For us where we are, many people have lost their jobs. we have maintained our staff and honestly it is very busy, but we deal internationally through the net which accounts for 99% of our business. Local businesses are suffering and many have closed permanently. Restaurants are doing well, with take out only. What IS very evident are the food pantries/banks and people needing food. I live in a small town and the queues are horrific.

Our states infracstructure for employment has collapsed. It simply does not work. If you try phoning the unemployment assistance number it is permanently engaged (same number for employers looking for workers which is absolutely crazy) the State is not working!

I really just see a slow down in people being out, spending for those that have it is similar. I am cocooned to a large degree, in that those around me are rather on the affluent side. I think coming into the autumn/fall is when the REAL problems are going to appear in this area, when the summer season fails and jobs that are needed for winter fail to appear.

ceadaoin.

Beholders wrote: »

Yep I sort of getting that, which is horrible, and hence the reason I do understand why states are opening up and probably should if the have low levels of the virus, I get that, really I want to know how people from the USA are seeing this, obviously as you pointed out each state is different. But really how are you guys doing? All we have is the media which I ignore

It really varies by state. Nowhere has been as hard hit as new york (and hopefully won't be). Hospitals here are empty to the point that staff are being laid off or having their hours cut. We never came near capacity due to covid , even at the peak.

My state is in phase 1 of reopening which is most stores open, and restaurants but only at half capacity. If they want to stay closed they can. Shops are fairly normal, most people wear masks, some places make it mandatory. Everyone is respecting social distancing and there are markings where to queue up. I havent been to a restaurant yet to eat in, but they seem to be busy enough. All staff are wearing masks and tables are placed 6 feet apart. Honestly, driving around, everything looks mostly normal, people out driving, out exercising and enjoying the weather etc. We accepted the measures here and the vast majority know it had to be done. I think there were a handful of maga type protestors one time but they were roundly criticised and ridiculed.

Its not hard to get tested here, there are multiple drive up sites and the major employers (casinos) are testing all staff before they reopen. We are doing about 4000-6000 tests per day and they've recently extended it to anyone, even those without symptoms.

So, its not as bad everywhere as it might appear on the news.

lord quackinton

MadYaker wrote: »

Really? You think Obama or Bush would have spent weeks on twitter telling everyone it will "just dissapear" as it spread freely around country?

No they would have been to busy ordering the deaths of thousands of innocent civilians in the Iraq war.

pjohnson

lord quackinton wrote: »

No they would have been to busy ordering the deaths of thousands of innocent civilians in the Iraq war.

Ahhh so its protecting the innocent civilian Iraqi's that should be the priority of the American president not the innocent civilian Americans.

Sounds correct!

ceadaoin.

I don't know how anyone could deny that Obama and even Bush (who now seems amazing compared to trump) would have been a lot more articulate and reassuring during all this. I mean, come on. Even with bush you wouldn't have had to make up ridiculous explanations for his outrageous statements, because in hindsight most of it wasnt that bad. Even if you think trump is some misunderstood genius, surely you must acknowledge he makes a show of himself at times?

lord quackinton

ceadaoin. wrote: »

I don't know how anyone could deny that Obama and even Bush (who now seems amazing compared to trump) would have been a lot more articulate and reassuring during all this. I mean, come on. Even with bush you wouldn't have had to make up ridiculous explanations for his outrageous statements, because in hindsight most of it wasnt that bad. Even if you think trump is some misunderstood genius, surely you must acknowledge he makes a show of himself at times?

Trump making a show of himself is a lot more acceptable then have an articulate bush or Obama - 2 war hawks whose hands are dripped in blood

Give me a boorish yob any day over an educated cold elitist.

Cody montana

lord quackinton wrote: »

Trump making a show of himself is a lot more acceptable then have an articulate bush or Obama - 2 war hawks whose hands are dripped in blood

Give me a boorish yob any day over an educated cold elitist.

Do you currently think America is not bombing countries?

Timberrrrrrrr

lord quackinton wrote: »

Trump making a show of himself is a lot more acceptable then have an articulate bush or Obama - 2 war hawks whose hands are dripped in blood

Give me a boorish yob any day over an educated cold elitist.

The Americans no longer publish drone strike numbers, why do you think that is?

LuckyLloyd

Dr. Bre wrote: »

I doubt any other American president response to this pandemic would have been much better . It’s all about the dollar and the economy . Democrat or republican doesn’t matter.

I assume you don’t believe that. It would be terrifying if you did.

Professor Moriarty

lord quackinton wrote: »

Trump making a show of himself is a lot more acceptable then have an articulate bush or Obama - 2 war hawks whose hands are dripped in blood

Give me a boorish yob any day over an educated cold elitist.

Sadly, the current incumbent is a boorish, educated, cold, elitist yob.

Leroy42

lord quackinton wrote: »

Trump making a show of himself is a lot more acceptable then have an articulate bush or Obama - 2 war hawks whose hands are dripped in blood

Give me a boorish yob any day over an educated cold elitist.

Trump has shown that he has no issue with locking children, once separated from their parents, in cages for the crime of illegally crossing a border.

Do you really think that he has any issue with bombing foreign citizens in far away places when they pose a 'clear and present danger' to the US and its interests?

As is so often the case, Trump idea of withdrawing from foreign conflicts looks fine, but we see very little in the way of an overall policy of how he plans to do it. Increasing humanitarian aid, drive direct investment from corporate America, invest in education in those countries, start a compassion initiative to increase the intake of foreigners from that country in the US to help them learn and grow.

None of that. We hear vague idea about reducing military operations, but little in the way of what is going to replace it, how to stop the country/region returning to the previous issues.

Coupled with that, we see a cut off in reporting in terms of drone strikes, but a massive increase in military spending. We also know that Trump loves talking about his military and their Super Duper missiles. So you remember the great fanfare that was rolled out when the 'world's largest non atomic bomb' was used on some hillside on Afganistan?

Couple all that with a clear lack of empathy for death of even his own citizens and one doesn't have to think too hard that maybe Trump is just talk on this issue and in fact has carried on exactly where the other POTUS have before.

Christy42

Beholders wrote: »

Really what struck me is that the USA have 5% of the population and yet seem to have 1/3 of the deaths, that to me seems alarming, but in fairness, their figures are similar to the rest of the world and what you would expect, for example deaths per 100,000 isn't far off the average in the world, neither is their testing per 100,000. So I just wondering why a country with 5% of the population is actually showing 33.3333% of the deaths in the world, but yet still feels they should open up. This isn't a question about trump, but one about how does this maths add up?

I think the bigger issue is recent events. A lot of the EU is opening up with 276 deaths per million, however most of them are from a while back with less than 10 deaths per million in the last week. The US is at 291 deaths per million, pretty similar to the EU number but has had 28 deaths per million over the least week.

I won't say that the US should be more careful based off of the 291. That can't go down and they eventually need to open up again. However the events over the last week show an issue. Certainly some individual areas may be OK but there is little doubt the US as a whole is being hammered at the moment.

Blueshoe

Per capita Ireland has both more cases and deaths than the Us.

Just a stat for those per capita lovers out there.

Cody montana

Blueshoe wrote: »

Per capita Ireland has both more cases and deaths than the Us.

Just a stat for those per capita lovers out there.

What’s this got to do with with the American response?

Kermit.de.frog

Blueshoe wrote: »

Per capita Ireland has both more cases and deaths than the Us.

Just a stat for those per capita lovers out there.

The outbreak is in progress in the US and that figure won't last long whereas elsewhere it's contained.

Carfacemandog

Blueshoe wrote: »

Per capita Ireland has both more cases and deaths than the Us.

Just a stat for those per capita lovers out there.

It's quite easy to do that when they're testing at much lower levels to us, vastly under reporting deaths and acting about as trustworthy as China or Russia on their figures in general, having now moved on to firing staff for not manipulating the data as I posted about yesterday.

The US officially is at about 96,500 dead, but there are estimated to be anywhere from 50,000 to 100,000 more in reality - which would be expected from the most obese non-Polynesian nation on earth (perhaps bar Kuwait, surprisingly) that also has perhaps the worst access to healthcare of any developed nation on earth for the non-wealthy.

And this from a nation with half the population density of Ireland, which means it should far by default for the same reason social distancing exists. Latvia and Estonia have similar population densities to the US, and despite being on mainland Europe where it has been so widespread in parts of, they are on 12 and 48 deaths per million, compared to the USA's 291.

Most damningly though, is that while NY & NJ have seen their numbers go way, way down over the last few weeks, other states are continuing to see increases. Two weeks ago I pointed out that Ireland, which had previously only been behind NY & NJ compared to individual US states, had dropped all the way to 12th and 10th respectively for per capita cases and deaths... well now, it would be 15th, and 13th. That's not a good good harbinger of things to come over there.

I didn't think anyone could quite achieve it, but between the above, the denial of science, the promotion of lethal malaria drugs, the suggestions of using bleach, the outright promotion of terrorism, and so on Donald Trump's administration have somehow come out of all of this looking worse than even China. Their only hope of not being the nation to handle this worst of perhaps anywhere in the world is Trump ally Jair Bolsonaro's clusterf*ck in Brazil, or maybe the arrogance Sweden have shown in doing what Trump wanted for the US, in not shutting down at all.

hetuzozaho

jibber5000 wrote: »

What would you call it?

A misunderstanding.

hotmail.com

Carfacemandog wrote: »

It's quite easy to do that when they're testing at much lower levels to us, vastly under reporting deaths and acting about as trustworthy as China or Russia on their figures in general, having now moved on to firing staff for not manipulating the data as I posted about yesterday.

The US officially is at about 96,500 dead, but there are estimated to be anywhere from 50,000 to 100,000 more in reality - which would be expected from the most obese non-Polynesian nation on earth (perhaps bar Kuwait, surprisingly) that also has perhaps the worst access to healthcare of any developed nation on earth for the non-wealthy.

And this from a nation with half the population density of Ireland, which means it should far by default for the same reason social distancing exists. Latvia and Estonia have similar population densities to the US, and despite being on mainland Europe where it has been so widespread in parts of, they are on 12 and 48 deaths per million, compared to the USA's 291.

Most damningly though, is that while NY & NJ have seen their numbers go way, way down over the last few weeks, other states are continuing to see increases. Two weeks ago I pointed out that Ireland, which had previously only been behind NY & NJ compared to individual US states, had dropped all the way to 12th and 10th respectively for per capita cases and deaths... well now, it would be 15th, and 13th. That's not a good good harbinger of things to come over there.

I didn't think anyone could quite achieve it, but between the above, the denial of science, the promotion of lethal malaria drugs, the suggestions of using bleach, the outright promotion of terrorism, and so on Donald Trump's administration have somehow come out of all of this looking worse than even China. Their only hope of not being the nation to handle this worst of perhaps anywhere in the world is Trump ally Jair Bolsonaro's clusterf*ck in Brazil, or maybe the arrogance Sweden have shown in doing what Trump wanted for the US, in not shutting down at all.

America is a federal state. Each state makes it's own decisions.

Americans believe in McDonalds and the almighty dollar. They don't care about a huge loss of life.

jibber5000

Carfacemandog wrote: »

It's quite easy to do that when they're testing at much lower levels to us, vastly under reporting deaths and acting about as trustworthy as China or Russia on their figures in general, having now moved on to firing staff for not manipulating the data as I posted about yesterday.

The US officially is at about 96,500 dead, but there are estimated to be anywhere from 50,000 to 100,000 more in reality - which would be expected from the most obese non-Polynesian nation on earth (perhaps bar Kuwait, surprisingly) that also has perhaps the worst access to healthcare of any developed nation on earth for the non-wealthy.

And this from a nation with half the population density of Ireland, which means it should far by default for the same reason social distancing exists. Latvia and Estonia have similar population densities to the US, and despite being on mainland Europe where it has been so widespread in parts of, they are on 12 and 48 deaths per million, compared to the USA's 291.

Most damningly though, is that while NY & NJ have seen their numbers go way, way down over the last few weeks, other states are continuing to see increases. Two weeks ago I pointed out that Ireland, which had previously only been behind NY & NJ compared to individual US states, had dropped all the way to 12th and 10th respectively for per capita cases and deaths... well now, it would be 15th, and 13th. That's not a good good harbinger of things to come over there.

I didn't think anyone could quite achieve it, but between the above, the denial of science, the promotion of lethal malaria drugs, the suggestions of using bleach, the outright promotion of terrorism, and so on Donald Trump's administration have somehow come out of all of this looking worse than even China. Their only hope of not being the nation to handle this worst of perhaps anywhere in the world is Trump ally Jair Bolsonaro's clusterf*ck in Brazil, or maybe the arrogance Sweden have shown in doing what Trump wanted for the US, in not shutting down at all.

Do you think the US are hiding people in mass graves? You can't just say "estimates" and then treat these estimates as gospel.

New York estimated they would need 40,000 ventilators.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.syracuse.com/coronavirus/2020/03/cuomo-refutes-trump-insists-ny-needs-up-to-40000-ventilators-i-operate-on-facts.html%3foutputType=amp

Hospital beds were cleared yet he surge never came a s 4,000 ventilators were all that was needed.

Cuomo sent Covid positive patients back into nursing homes spreading the disease exponentially. Thousands of residents died as a result of his actions.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/abcnews.go.com/amp/Health/wireStory/ap-count-4300-virus-patients-ny-nursing-homes-70825470

If we're talking about people with blood on their hands, Cuomo is right up there for that decision alone.

jibber5000

hetuzozaho wrote: »

A misunderstanding.

And if that happened in America, do you think you'd still say it was a misunderstanding?

Carfacemandog

hotmail.com wrote: »

America is a federal state. Each state makes it's own decisions.

Americans believe in McDonalds and the almighty dollar. They don't care about a huge loss of life.

Not true - Trump could at any point have enforced a federal lockdown, but refused to. He seemed entirely caught off guard when the individual states took it upon themselves to do this, and since it was the individual states that put these in place - it is only the individual states that can lift them. So instead, Trump began promoting terrorism on Twitter calling for armed protests to 'LIBERATE!' several of these states.

Many Americans do care about loss of life, hence why improved healthcare is so popular over there. Unfortunately, a good chunk of them care more about if the person giving them better healthcare has the letter R beside their name or not, which is why the Affordable Care Act is so much more popular than Obamacare despite them being the exact same thing (Obamacare being a nickname for it). This is the result of decades long conditioning through the likes of FOX News, which the Republican party have been pretty explicit about and quite often. If Trump and FOX/OANN/etc had never started shouting for a reopening, we would not have seen the protests that we have up and down the country.

Carfacemandog

jibber5000 wrote: »

Do you think the US are hiding people in mass graves? You can't just say "estimates" and then treat these estimates as gospel.

New York estimated they would need 40,000 ventilators.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.syracuse.com/coronavirus/2020/03/cuomo-refutes-trump-insists-ny-needs-up-to-40000-ventilators-i-operate-on-facts.html%3foutputType=amp

Hospital beds were cleared yet he surge never came a s 4,000 ventilators were all that was needed.

Cuomo sent Covid positive patients back into nursing homes spreading the disease exponentially. Thousands of residents died as a result of his actions.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/abcnews.go.com/amp/Health/wireStory/ap-count-4300-virus-patients-ny-nursing-homes-70825470

If we're talking about people with blood on their hands, Cuomo is right up there for that decision alone.

Excess death rates show around 50,000 more dead than Coronavirus would explain, and if factoring in to count as we do in Ireland, as well as our far higher testing rate, it would soar even higher again (since the poster was comparing like-for-like per capita rates of the two nations).

And as I posted yesterday, states like Florida (whose governor's entire platform is that he is a complete Trump sycophant - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1YP_zZJFXs) have been firing officials who have refused to manipulate and falsify data. That's what you would expect from China or Russia, not a developed western nation.

Remember when Trump ran on being all about transparency back in 2016... what happened there?

hetuzozaho

jibber5000 wrote: »

And if that happened in America, do you think you'd still say it was a misunderstanding?

Yes.

lord quackinton

Andrew Cuomo blaming federal government for ordering him to send people with Covid back to nursing homes
This is the governor of New York who stated many times he is in charge and trump cannot tell states what to do

Andrew Cuomo joining his brother on CNN for laughs and skits while people die, beyond sick
Something seriously wrong with Cuomo brothers
Have you watched movie US - they strike me as those types of people

Timberrrrrrrr

lord quackinton wrote: »

Andrew Cuomo blaming federal government for ordering him to send people with Covid back to nursing homes
This is the governor of New York who stated many times he is in charge and trump cannot tell states what to do

Andrew Cuomo joining his brother on CNN for laughs and skits while people die, beyond sick
Something seriously wrong with Cuomo brothers
Have you watched movie US - they strike me as those types of people

A bit like Trump and his "I was only messing with the media when I made that remark"?

Carfacemandog

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

A bit like Trump and his "I was only messing with the media when I made that remark"?

The poster you are quoting is an excellent example of what I was talking about a few posts up.

Trump has the letter R beside his name, you see. So it's perfectly OK for him to do so.

Blueshoe

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

A bit like Trump and his "I was only messing with the media when I made that remark"?

The rules:

When someone criticizes something a rival or opponent to Trump does it's ok because Trump did something similar

When someone defends something Trump did and brings up something a rival or opponent did it's a straw man argument.