Wage Subsidy Scheme Issues

blackwhite

je551e wrote: »

Hi , sorry to jump in but can you explain this a little more? How can an employer ignore tapering? Are you saying employers are putting through the full subsidy and topping up more then then they should be .wont this be spotted by revenue easy enough though? Can’t believe some employers are doing that if I’m picking you up right, TIA.

Ultimate - an employer can do whatever they feel like on their payroll.
It’s when revenue come knocking over the next few years that the problems will arise.

You’d be shocked by how many employers can be fairly ignorant of the detail of employment law - or who feel that they can pick and choose the parts that suit.

The majority of employers follow the letter of the law, and go out of their way to ensure that they are fair to employees. The employers who don’t let the rest of us down - but they’re always the ones that you’ll hear about

radooo

I am currently on Covid temporary wage subsidy scheme while still working full-time. I will be taking my annual leave in July and plan to go abroad to see my family and stay with them for nearly 10 days. After then I will be heading back to Dublin. I heard from several different sources that my PPS number will be taken at the airport and my TWSS will be canceled if traveling abroad. Would anyone be able to advise on this? Thanks.

je551e

Seve OB wrote: »

If you read many comments above it appears there are, and they think they are doing nothing wrong.

Thanks I did read them but didn’t understand what they were doing but now it has clicked with me . Thanks . It’s Disgraceful to exploit this scheme IMO.

Princess Calla

I've no idea.

Though I am curious as to how you are getting the wage subsidy but working full time.

je551e

blackwhite wrote: »

Ultimate - an employer can do whatever they feel like on their payroll.
It’s when revenue come knocking over the next few years that the problems will arise.

You’d be shocked by how many employers can be fairly ignorant of the detail of employment law - or who feel that they can pick and choose the parts that suit.

The majority of employers follow the letter of the law, and go out of their way to ensure that they are fair to employees. The employers who don’t let the rest of us down - but they’re always the ones that you’ll hear about

Well I hope revenue do come knocking some of us have worked hard to follow this scheme. I can imagine there will be an amount WRC complaints from this also.

Beasty

Threads merged

je551e

radooo wrote: »

I am currently on Covid temporary wage subsidy scheme while still working full-time. I will be taking my annual leave in July and plan to go abroad to see my family and stay with them for nearly 10 days. After then I will be heading back to Dublin. I heard from several different sources that my PPS number will be taken at the airport and my TWSS will be canceled if traveling abroad. Would anyone be able to advise on this? Thanks.

Not true , the employer should pay you your annual leave during that period and not claim the TWSS. You can return to the scheme the once back.

PaybackPayroll

Seve OB wrote: »

If you read many comments above it appears there are, and they think they are doing nothing wrong.

We have found that the vast majority of users are really trying their best to do this the 'correct' way.

However, we have had companies that are topping up more than they should. They understand that they might have to refund the subsidy as a result, but many of them are in an unfortunate, desperate situation and want to do the best for their employees.

It really is unfortunate now that Revenue appear to be laying on the pressure, when many companies are so crippled and could do without all the extra admin and hassle etc. The assumption always seems to be one of wrong doing.

blackwhite

je551e wrote: »

Not true , the employer should pay you your annual leave during that period and not claim the TWSS. You can return to the scheme the once back.

Utter rubbish

Any annual leave can be taken whilst on TWSS and makes no impact to employee being on the scheme.

blackwhite

MoonUnit75 wrote: »

It should have been done as a furlough scheme like the UK perhaps, would have prevented blatant abuse to get free labour.

UK scheme isn’t the best either. We’ve topped our UK employees up to 100% of normal pay - but they’re not allowed to do any work.

A sensible scheme would allow employers to keep people working once they topped up to 100% of normal pay

collsoft

That is indeed what is happening.

At the moment the reporting of the actual amount of subsidy paid by an employer to an employee is optional from a technical perspective.

There was a change made to the Payroll Submission Formats towards the end of April that facilitate the reporting of the wage subsidy, but it is optional.

Some software packages now report the subsidy payment to Revenue and some do not. (Ours does by the way since the end of April)

I asked Revenue a short while back about reporting levels and they confirmed that thus far about 35% of all J9 payslips to date have had the subsidy reported.

So conversly that means for 65% of the J9 payslips Revenue have absolutely no idea what the employer paid to the employee, and if tapering was applied or not.

Now, if your software does not currently report directly to Revenue there will be an option to output a CSV file listing all the subsidy payments made to employees and employers will eventually have to report this.

This was intended to facilitate the reconcilliation of the transitional phase of the scheme when Revenue were paying out €410 per week regardless. This reconcilliation is earmarked for middle or end of August.

But i think things have changed. In my dealings with Revenue in the last week I can see that the reporting of these payments has become more important, and Revenue have asked software vendors if the csv output can be provided any earlier from our side.

We were not told before today about this major compliance drive, and i think think todays announcements may indicate that there are some problems.

Take for example the fact that Revenue are now asking employers to confirm that they have shown the subsidy on the payslip, and they are updating the employees view in MyAccount to show what Revenue has paid the employer under the scheme.

To me that indicates that there may be employers who are claiming the subsidy for employees but that the employees may not be aware of it.

So lets see how this all plays out

je551e wrote: »

Hi , sorry to jump in but can you explain this a little more? How can an employer ignore tapering? Are you saying employers are putting through the full subsidy and topping up more then then they should be .wont this be spotted by revenue easy enough though? Can’t believe some employers are doing that if I’m picking you up right, TIA.

collsoft

Many employees have taken paycuts.

Some employers have agreed to defer a portion of pay to a later date.

So the employee works full time now for a lower amount of pay plus a subsidy and the employer will pay the balance at some point in the future when they have exited the scheme

Princess Calla wrote: »

I've no idea.

Though I am curious as to how you are getting the wage subsidy but working full time.

je551e

blackwhite wrote: »

Utter rubbish

Any annual leave can be taken whilst on TWSS and makes no impact to employee being on the scheme.

It can be taken on the scheme Yes didn’t say it couldn’t but as per guidelines from IBEC that’s the best practice ,so it’s not utter rubbish.

je551e

collsoft wrote: »

That is indeed what is happening.

Thanks Collsoft. In your opinion just asking can you see this scheme extended beyond August 31st?

SAMTALK

collsoft wrote: »

Many employees have taken paycuts.

Some employers have agreed to defer a portion of pay to a later date.

So the employee works full time now for a lower amount of pay plus a subsidy and the employer will pay the balance at some point in the future when they have exited the scheme

Is this legal ? Surely if they hold some payment for later date (as in what's happening here) this is wrong.

We have been told we will get cash but less tax which they claim they will pay. I have my doubts this will be done

Seve OB

je551e wrote: »

Not true , the employer should pay you your annual leave during that period and not claim the TWSS. You can return to the scheme the once back.

je551e wrote: »

It can be taken on the scheme Yes didn’t say it couldn’t but as per guidelines from IBEC that’s the best practice ,so it’s not utter rubbish.

so if i have a staff member who normally works 5 days a week. for a wage of €500 Gross.
now lets say there are on the subsidy of 350 and top up of 50, so getting €400, or 80% of their normal gross wage.
but maybe they are only working 3 days a week now

there is absolutely no reason why they cannot take their holiday and be paid on the scheme. an employer is under no obligation to pay them without claiming the subsidy.

i'd actually go one further, they could take a week off, but an employer might only deduct 3 days from their holiday entitlements as that is all they are currently working, but the employer would be well within their rights to deduct 4 days from their holidays as they are being paid for 4 days.

Seve OB

PaybackPayroll wrote: »

We have found that the vast majority of users are really trying their best to do this the 'correct' way.

However, we have had companies that are topping up more than they should. They understand that they might have to refund the subsidy as a result, but many of them are in an unfortunate, desperate situation and want to do the best for their employees.

It really is unfortunate now that Revenue appear to be laying on the pressure, when many companies are so crippled and could do without all the extra admin and hassle etc. The assumption always seems to be one of wrong doing.

yes i don't think anyone is necessarily trying to break the rules. but this is so complicated, the companies who run their own payroll really should have been seeking the advice of experts on this. (though mind you i was given advice by so called experts early in the scheme and even they didn't have a clue!)

collsoft wrote: »

To me that indicates that there may be employers who are claiming the subsidy for employees but that the employees may not be aware of it.

thats what i was thinking when i read your post yesterday. was their not a stipulation that the payslip had to specifically say covid though?

je551e

Seve OB wrote: »

so if i have a staff member who normally works 5 days a week. for a wage of €500 Gross.
now lets say there are on the subsidy of 350 and top up of 50, so getting €400, or 80% of their normal gross wage.
but maybe they are only working 3 days a week now

there is absolutely no reason why they cannot take their holiday and be paid on the scheme. an employer is under no obligation to pay them without claiming the subsidy.

i'd actually go one further, they could take a week off, but an employer might only deduct 3 days from their holiday entitlements as that is all they are currently working, but the employer would be well within their rights to deduct 4 days from their holidays as they are being paid for 4 days.

Yes you can do all that Im not disputing you but what I said wasn't utter rubbish either. Lots of possibilities on this scheme.

Seve OB

je551e wrote: »

Yes you can do all that Im not disputing you but what I said wasn't utter rubbish either. Lots of possibilities on this scheme.

what you said was the employer should take you off the scheme while paying holidays, which as i have pointed out, is not necessary

Seve OB

Has anyone seen any update to the people on Maternity leave?
I applied for a staff member over 2 weeks ago now and it is still "in progress"
i have rang all i'm being told is they are working through them, no idea how long it will be, or any indication of how much it will be.

i have to pay this person now, it is not fair on them

blackwhite

je551e wrote: »

Yes you can do all that Im not disputing you but what I said wasn't utter rubbish either. Lots of possibilities on this scheme.

The below is exactly what you claimed.

je551e wrote: »

Not true , the employer should pay you your annual leave during that period and not claim the TWSS. You can return to the scheme the once back.

Employers can choose to remain in the scheme, or choose to remove an employee from the scheme.

Making the claim that employers "should" remove the employee from TWSS when on annual leave was, and still is, utter rubbish.

blackwhite

Seve OB wrote: »

Has anyone seen any update to the people on Maternity leave?
I applied for a staff member over 2 weeks ago now and it is still "in progress"
i have rang all i'm being told is they are working through them, no idea how long it will be, or any indication of how much it will be.

i have to pay this person now, it is not fair on them

We had one employee this month. My payroll manager informs me it took 3 days from informing Revenue to getting an updated CSV from Revenue including her details.

Seve OB

blackwhite wrote: »

We had one employee this month. My payroll manager informs me it took 3 days from informing Revenue to getting an updated CSV from Revenue including her details.

wonder why it is taking so long for me. i'd say i applied on the first day possible

je551e

blackwhite wrote: »

The below is exactly what you claimed.




Employers can choose to remain in the scheme, or choose to remove an employee from the scheme.

Making the claim that employers "should" remove the employee from TWSS when on annual leave was, and still is, utter rubbish.

As pointed out by Seve OB I should have included in my wording that it is not necessary To take them off the scheme I agree so your response above is not needed .


However if an employee wishes to avail of annual leave during the operation of the Scheme and the employer wants to pay the pre COVID-19 amount the employer can opt out of the Scheme for that week to pay holiday pay but just to be clear the employer can CHOOSE either option.
What I said is still not utter rubbish thanks

Pistachio19

@collsoft I have run payroll for June for our employees on a cumulative basis as has been the case so far. According to new guidelines revenue are providing new RPNs from 21 Jun. Do you know if I just continue with the figures I have for June payment or should I now have employees on a week 1 basis for the June payment?

Seve OB

Pistachio19 wrote: »

@collsoft I have run payroll for June for our employees on a cumulative basis as has been the case so far. According to new guidelines revenue are providing new RPNs from 21 Jun. Do you know if I just continue with the figures I have for June payment or should I now have employees on a week 1 basis for the June payment?

Did you run a rpn update before processing the payroll?

Pistachio19

Seve OB wrote: »

Did you run a rpn update before processing the payroll?

Payroll package does this but I ran it before this new change came out this week. Not sure now if I should delete that run and do it again, just manually amend the revenue details of each employee to week 1 or just wait until the July payroll to change things.

collsoft

Hi Pistachio,

If you have already run the Payroll I would leave it until the next run.

Revenue are aware of the fact that there is often a delay between an RPN being issued and it being picked up by the Employer.

So I wouldn't be worrying too much about it for June as long as you pick it up for July - Like you said you ahd run the payroll before the new RPNs were issued.

Pistachio19 wrote: »

Payroll package does this but I ran it before this new change came out this week. Not sure now if I should delete that run and do it again, just manually amend the revenue details of each employee to week 1 or just wait until the July payroll to change things.

gb19815

Hi can someone clarify my normal wage is €650 before tax , I’m working 40 odd hours per wk while employer is using covid payment. Last week I received covid and €250 topup which amounts to €600 basic pay. I received more in net pay due to claiming a new tax credit, employer told me that was all he was allowed to top it up to is this correct ? My employer is a conman hence why I’m asking on here

Heres Johnny

gb19815 wrote: »

Hi can someone clarify my normal wage is €650 before tax , I’m working 40 odd hours per wk while employer is using covid payment. Last week I received covid and €250 topup which amounts to €600 basic pay. I received more in net pay due to claiming a new tax credit, employer told me that was all he was allowed to top it up to is this correct ? My employer is a conman hence why I’m asking on here

Was your covid 350? If it was it looks OK to me.
Your employer cannot top up your covid payment by more than an amount which makes your pay exceed your take home pay pre covid

Covid + top up must be less than or equal to old take home pay or he loses subsidy.