McNugget flu returns

beejee

Remember that old friend, bird flu? Well, she's back, baby!

Non-transmissable form detected across China, India and Philippines, bans in place all ready. That is to say, "Non-transmissable"...yet.

There are some whopping changes coming after this latest gift from that region. People and animals dying worldwide for the sake of saving a few percentage points.

I hope punitive/remunerative measures are laid on fast and heavy, because clearly this reliance on other countries to produce goods has had its day. And long overdue it is too.

Rant over!

So, does anyone feel comfortable having the world economy continue as before? Or do you think it needs to drastically change too?

Cee-Jay-Cee

I think this whole thing is going to change everything, social customs, economic ties, personal travel/tourism and hopefully heath services. It’ll hopefully benefit all countries.

fryup

i'll never have a chinese again

endacl

fryup wrote: »

i'll never have a chinese again

Why not?

Darc19

fryup wrote: »

i'll never have a chinese again

Watching Trump over the past 4 years has put me off oranges for life.

fryup

endacl wrote: »

Why not?

god knows what's in it,

Lewis_Benson

fryup wrote: »

god knows what's in it,

Lol
You do realise that what you get here from a chinese takeaway is not actually Chinese food.
And that actually most of the owners and workers in chi see takeaways are actually Malaysian?

Urquell

Do we have any links to what's being discussed?

Airyfairy12

China has terrible animal rights, the animal markets have caged bats, dogs, chickens, rats, wild animals and cats stuffed into little cages together in filth until their slaughtered on the spot. Its sickening how animals are treated over there.
Those rats and bats that are full of diseases and coming from who knows where, literally taken from the wild, in caves and off the streets are hacked up on the spot, not washed or checked for fleas or anything else, theyre cut up and sold for consumption.
The bubonic plague came from fleas on Asian rats and spread across Europe wiping out over half the population. We're lucky its a strain of flu virus and not something much worse.

Victor

Meanwhile in Cavan last week - farmer culls 450,000 chickens due to bird flu

https://www.anglocelt.ie/news/farming/articles/2020/03/11/4187048-farmer-culls-450000-chickens-due-to-bird-flu/

Larbre34

fryup wrote: »

god knows what's in it,

Irish meats, fish and vegetables, imported asian spices, beansprouts and water chestnuts and the like from greenhouses in Holland - since you ask.

kowloonkev

This is a chance for the rest of the world to put an end to China's rise to power. Hope western governments will seize the opportunity to become more self sufficient.

Quantum Erasure

jesus i havn't had a chinese in months, if they're open tomorrow at all im getting some spicy shredded chilli chicken

Potential-Monke

I think we don't have it as bad as other countries. Even the big chains buy local as best they can, from retail chains to fast food places (reluctant to use restaurant). We can continue on without really caring what happens in China regarding meat/food. We'll feign shock and horror, pretend to care, and lose interest as soon as the next shiny thing comes along.

We can only hope that as we go through this, that hopefully this time slightly more people will listen, those who can actually make the necessary changes to begin the overhaul needed.

Darc19

Any reports of American Virus (h1n1 swine flu) these days?

Potential-Monke

Darc19 wrote: »

Any reports of American Virus (h1n1 swine flu) these days?

2019 Outbreak in Malta
An outbreak of swine flu in the European Union member state was reported in mid-January 2019, with the island's main state hospital overcrowded within a week, with more than 30 cases being treated.[60]

2019 Outbreak in Morocco
In January 2019 an outbreak of H1N1 was recorded in Morocco, with nine confirmed fatalities.[61] As of 4 February, 11 deaths have been reported in various regions of Morocco.[citation needed]

2019 Outbreak in Iran
In November 2019 an outbreak of H1N1 has been recorded in Iran, with 56 fatalities, also 4000 people had been hospitalized.[62]

2020 Cases in India
On February 20, 2020, an IT firm in India stated that 2 of its employees have been tested positive for H1N1. On February 25, 2020, Justice D. Y. Chandrachud announced in the Supreme Court that six Supreme Court judges had contracted an H1N1 infection

Potential-Monke

Potential-Monke wrote: »

We can only hope that as we go through this, that hopefully this time slightly more people will listen, those who can actually make the necessary changes to begin the overhaul needed.

I tend to look at this differently than others, and I'm more patient with Chinese behavior. I'm not expecting them to behave the same as Irish or Americans, simply because their civilisattion developed differently than ours. Western Europe and the US had their industrial revolutions long before China, and we modernized during a period when pollution wasn't such a strong concern. For Ireland, we managed to skip all of that simply by getting a jump by the EEC, but if that hadn't have happened we probably would have needed to develop a heavy industry focus at some point to push our economic progress forward. Instead, we made the jump from a agricultural society to a services society relatively quickly.

The point is that China is changing. Even in the decade that I've lived there, both habits and the perceptions of people have been changing. When I arrived, spitting was commonplace. Doctors smoked in hospitals. Mothers would hold their baby or child in the air, while he pissed on the floor of a shopping mall. etc. There's a heap of examples of such behavior, but the important note is that it's declining. Laws have been brought in and actually enforced against that. Social pressure from individuals against people to act in such negative ways, is becoming more common. I've seen people on the street stop and complain at behavior that would have been ignored previously.

China has a culture of silence. Traditionally, people didn't express their disgust or disapproval of many behaviors because you didn't know the influence/power of the other person. The repercussions of insulting another person could be widespread and sometimes terminal.

However, with the rise of netcitizens, the expression of Chinese people online, they do have a strong impact on how the average Chinese person thinks. They're changing their society as time goes by.

I'm back living in an area of Xi'an where I lived when I first came to China. It's changed completely. Recycling bins are outside every apartment block. Garbage trucks regularly collect waste. Road sweepers come along every morning and evening to wipe away the waste and dirt. There is a community driven effort to keep the neighborhood clean and healthy. Pollution wise, Xi'an would have pollution driven smog for 9 months of the year, but now it's only really there for about four months, during winter when the coal power plants kick in. And those plants are being refitted to be more environmentally friendly. There were 13 coal power plants when I arrived. There's now 6 remaining, with their work being taken over by nuclear, or clean energy plants located outside the city. Massive progress in a decade.

In terms of food, that will change too, although it'd worth considering that the eating of exotic animals isn't and never was commonplace. I've been to wet markets in Shaanxi, and Chongqing. I never saw bat, or snake in any of them. The more traditional meats are there, although they would butcher for every part of the animal. There's a tendency here on boards to believe that everyone in China is eating these exotics regularly. They're not. Dog is essentially the meat for the very poor, or traditionalists (which are very old, and likely to die soon). The middle aged and young are more interested in beef, chicken, or fish, than eating something for a traditional belief in some supernatural power.

I'd suggest cutting China some slack because it is developing in the face of enormous challenges. The countryside is teeming with people who aren't educated, extremely poor, live in squalor, and are very traditional minded. They resist the need to modernize, often still behaving the same as they would in the Qin dynasty. The cities are generally better, but the people from the countryside come for work, bringing their traditional thinking, and you'll find them behaving the same in the suburbs. There's a lot of friction between city born people and those from the countryside, when it comes to acceptable behavior.

There's a common belief that Chinese people are obedient to the government and will obey whatever laws are brought in, out of fear or tradition. That's definitely not true. Tradition has a lot of power here, and the government needs to be careful as to what it changes. When the no-smoking laws were first brought in, they were ignored. Beijing brought in laws three times in the last ten years to ban smoking in many areas, and most people simply ignored them. It's only in the last two years that the bans are being accepted and followed (for the most part, and just in the cities, not the countryside)

China will need time to evolve. Snapping fingers and expecting instant compliance is not going to happen. It's unrealistic. We will see major changes due to the effects of the Coronavirus, both cultural and legal, but even then, it will take decades before that filters into the consciousness of all Chinese people. Hopefully enough older people will die off to allow the younger Chinese the chance to shape their country more, but that will still take time. Some of the changes will simply be face-saving gestures, while others will be far more serious. But expecting China to behave as a western nation, is unrealistic, and terribly naive. They're never going to match up to our standards for living.. hell, we don't live up to our own standards.

There's a lot of double standards going on in this thread. The west is not perfect in terms of food quality or hygiene. Obesity is a major concern in the west but many just ignore it. We acknowledge the unhealthiness of "fast food" with it's genetic manipulation of "meats" but pretend its fine. There are 16 McDonald restaurants in Xi'an (that I know of). Easily as many KFC... and they're not keeping to European standards of quality. We export our fast food and other unhealthy products to other nations, often with extremely dodgy ingredients or manufacturing processes, but expect those countries to behave better..

So... be patient. China will change. It already is. It probably won't change fast enough to satisfy Airyfairy12, but then, I honestly doubt any realistic pace of change would.

biko

I heard it was released by Greta for the climate to recuperate

Hoop66

Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »

I think this whole thing is going to change everything, social customs, economic ties, personal travel/tourism and hopefully heath services. It’ll hopefully benefit all countries.

Hopefully.

I think it's more likely people will just go back to doing what they've always done.

Hotblack Desiato

Airyfairy12 wrote: »

China has terrible animal rights

China has terrible human rights. I think we should be much more concerned about that.

The bubonic plague came from fleas on Asian rats and spread across Europe wiping out over half the population. We're lucky its a strain of flu virus and not something much worse.

Ah, the old "foreigners bring disease" racist trope, as old as history.

Airyfairy12

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

China has terrible human rights. I think we should be much more concerned about that.



Ah, the old "foreigners bring disease" racist trope, as old as history.

We should be concerned about both.

Foreigners don't bring disease. Rodents, bats, fleas and mites do. Governments world over need to implement regulations to stop things like this from happening.
China and asia is an epicenter for diseases caused by animals as a direct result of their treatment of them. If they left animals alone in the first place we wouldnt be in situation.
Animal rights are human rights.

Bobblehats

How can anyone even face those things are they Usain Bolt?

They give me the runs too but nothing like that... best off stickin to your local Supermacs. Best chicken tenders around!

beejee

The world economy is going to be dashed to pieces over this, no doubts.

If China isn't fit to join the rest of the world yet, then it shouldn't be allowed. It can be the world's manufacturing plant, it can enjoy all its cultural oddities...but no longer can it be both.

The same goes for other countries too.

Globalisation is the root problem. Squeezing every last fraction of every last cent out of every last inch of earth is globalisation. All else is a trojan horse, mass migration is about making money, multinationals are all about making money, multiculturalism is all about making money and so on. Well, the horse is in deep shoite this time, people are getting a peek beneath the veil.

Rats and leeches and parasites and fools. All great company for one another

Airyfairy12

Airyfairy12 wrote: »

We should be concerned about both.

Foreigners don't bring disease.

Sure they do.

"Europeans brought deadly viruses and bacteria, such as smallpox, measles, typhus, and cholera, for which Native Americans had no immunity (Denevan, 1976). On their return home, European sailors brought syphilis to Europe."

Rodents, bats, fleas and mites do. Governments world over need to implement regulations to stop things like this from happening.

How? (more than they do already, that is) Lets see some specifics, and how to do it without targeting people unfairly?

China and asia is an epicenter for diseases caused by animals as a direct result of their treatment of them.

As is Africa. And S.America too. You're being awfully selective in what diseases you care to include.. AIDS has killed more people than either CORVID, or SARS.. and that originated in Africa. Where's your outrage about that, and it's links to bush meat there? In fact, Ebola and smallpox supposedly came from Africa (or the M.East), so...

Animal rights are human rights.

Nope. They're animals, not humans. There is a rather strong difference.. Unless we're talking about fairy land and not reality?

beejee

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

China has terrible human rights. I think we should be much more concerned about that.



Ah, the old "foreigners bring disease" racist trope, as old as history.

Yes, the old racist trope of microorganisms moving freely from indigenous evolved environments to vulnerable environments elsewhere via mass movement of people.

Maybe you should give a lecture to nature from the side of a cliff or something, don't be afraid to squeak up, either. Tell it about your feelings, you know?

beejee

beejee wrote: »

The world economy is going to be dashed to pieces over this, no doubts.

I doubt it. It'll have a dip, but being smashed to pieces is over dramatization.

Anyway, the world economy was heading towards a degree of a recession before the virus emerged. It's not as if it was booming everywhere... and suddenly changed because of the virus.

If China isn't fit to join the rest of the world yet, then it shouldn't be allowed. It can be the world's manufacturing plant, it can enjoy all its cultural oddities...but no longer can it be both.

The same goes for other countries too.

Well... I'm sure they'll be horrified that they don't have your permission.. or anyone elses, for that matter. They don't need anyones permission to "join the rest of the world". No country does. And for China to be judged... it needs to be part of the world... for any standards to be applied equally. :rolleyes:

Love to see how you're going to stop them. A nuclear powerhouse, with one of the largest conventional armies in the world, and fast modernizing all their other military arms.

Let me guess.. the US plays a major role in your plans to control how countries and their people behave...

Globalisation is the root problem. Squeezing every last fraction of every last cent out of every last inch of earth is globalisation. All else is a trojan horse, mass migration is about making money, multinationals are all about making money, multiculturalism is all about making money and so on. Well, the horse is in deep shoite this time, people are getting a peek beneath the veil.

Rats and leeches and parasites and fools. All great company for one another

Well, if we want to be realistic, it's the famine mentality that is the problem. China rose quickly out of being a poor country into being one of the richest. A bit like Ireland really.. the difference being population. Ireland can over eat (which many are), over consume (which many are), etc but with a small population it doesn't make much impact. China, on the other hand, with well over a billion people, make a bigger impact when they do that. Hence the massive imports of food into China to match their eating habits...

And then it's also the road to modernizing a country. Pollution, and people being left behind. Pollution has been talked enough, but with such a massive population, a large percentage of it's population have been left behind. Those in the cities gain the benefits of modernization and economic success, while those in the countryside are left pretty low on the priority for investment.

But I get it. This is about ranting for the sake of it using vague formless arguments that present nothing of value... China bad. Cultural superiority complex.. :rolleyes:

beejee

Deleted User wrote: »

I doubt it. It'll have a dip, but being smashed to pieces is over dramatization.

Anyway, the world economy was heading towards a degree of a recession before the virus emerged. It's not as if it was booming everywhere... and suddenly changed because of the virus.



Well... I'm sure they'll be horrified that they don't have your permission.. or anyone elses, for that matter. They don't need anyones permission to "join the rest of the world". No country does. And for China to be judged... it needs to be part of the world... for any standards to be applied equally. :rolleyes:

Love to see how you're going to stop them. A nuclear powerhouse, with one of the largest conventional armies in the world, and fast modernizing all their other military arms.

Let me guess.. the US plays a major role in your plans to control how countries and their people behave...



Well, if we want to be realistic, it's the famine mentality that is the problem. China rose quickly out of being a poor country into being one of the richest. A bit like Ireland really.. the difference being population. Ireland can over eat (which many are), over consume (which many are), etc but with a small population it doesn't make much impact. China, on the other hand, with well over a billion people, make a bigger impact when they do that. Hence the massive imports of food into China to match their eating habits...

And then it's also the road to modernizing a country. Pollution, and people being left behind. Pollution has been talked enough, but with such a massive population, a large percentage of it's population have been left behind. Those in the cities gain the benefits of modernization and economic success, while those in the countryside are left pretty low on the priority for investment.

But I get it. This is about ranting for the sake of it using vague formless arguments that present nothing of value... China bad. Cultural superiority complex.. :rolleyes:

About the economic fallout, we'll see, won't we?

About a recession already being on the cards, yes, that's correct.

About the repercussions for China, we'll see how that works out too.

As for the rest of your post, there's only so many times you can dress up "oh but the poor Chinese, please understand".

No, they're about two diseases past the "please understand" phrase.

Never mind the human rights abuses, totalitarian ambitions, Africa, the propaganda that would put mussolini in awe...never mind that, and all the rest, let's just look at people dying in ireland right now because some Chinese fooknugget lives the way they live in china. Poor China. Please understand

beejee

beejee wrote: »

About the economic fallout, we'll see, won't we?

About a recession already being on the cards, yes, that's correct.

About the repercussions for China, we'll see how that works out too.

As for the rest of your post, there's only so many times you can dress up "oh but the poor Chinese, please understand".

No, they're about two diseases past the "please understand" phrase.

Never mind the human rights abuses, totalitarian ambitions, Africa, the propaganda that would put mussolini in awe...never mind that, and all the rest, let's just look at people dying in ireland right now because some Chinese fooknugget lives the way they live in china. Poor China. Please understand

So... not actually respond to what I said. Yup. Back to the ranting. Shouldn't be surprised really.

beejee

Deleted User wrote: »

So... not actually respond to what I said. Yup. Back to the ranting. Shouldn't be surprised really.

Respond to what?

You are restating that China is poor and unequally developing and... That's all you're saying.

You're making excuses with no logical endpoint beyond "no need for anything to happen because something will change in decades time perhaps."

Great. But it amounts to a large "so what?!"

My point is very clear: things need to change, drastically, and China, as one part of that set of problems, shouldn't get a free pass because" please understand".

beejee

beejee wrote: »

Respond to what?

You are restating that China is poor and unequally developing and... That's all you're saying.

You're making excuses with no logical endpoint beyond "no need for anything to happen because something will change in decades time perhaps."

Great. But it amounts to a large "so what?!"

My point is very clear: things need to change, drastically, and China, as one part of that set of problems, shouldn't get a free pass because" please understand".

I see. Do you have the same demands for the countries in Africa, M.East, and S.America?

beejee

Deleted User wrote: »

I see. Do you have the same demands for the countries in Africa, M.East, and S.America?

You better believe I do.

And when we're in the middle of a global pandemic created out of those places, after they have produced several other diseases on the trot, you bet I'll be giving out shoite about them too.

As it stands, this century, if I remember correctly, China is the birthplace of over 50% of all new world diseases. That's ridiculous. There's always some leeway with regard developing nations, but there must come a point where it can no longer be ignored.

Not to mention the obvious, that China has money pouring into it, nuclear weapons, practical colonies-in-the-making overseas... Yet they're still somehow too poor and backward to catch up with the hygienic basics of the last century, if not the one before. Nah, it's stubborn trollocks, they want all the money and none of the responsibility. China is the golden child of globalisation, and it shows.

And I'll add: other countries/companies doing business in China are to blame too. Rats, trying to pinch a few pennies via glorified slave labour.