Where did it come from, what caused it

No mad conspirity theories.

Any scientific evidence-based information of where it came from, why are we apparently only seeing the worldwide emergence of virus-like this in the past 30 years and more will we have more pandemics emerge for which we will have no vaccines.

bat soup

stevek93

China = You sanction me I virus you.

Realt Dearg Sec

China, pangolins.

Good talk.

From eating bats......chinese culled a huge amount of pigs mid last year (hence.why price pork increased)

Seemingly ran low of food/source of protein


This all happened at same time,chinese offials were inspecting irish meat plants last summer (in middle of blockage by farmers),which considering how specific.they were by all.accounts,they let themselves eat all sorts of crazy sh1t at home,putting rest of the world at risk

uck51js9zml2yt

Chinese say Americans , Americans say Chinese.
I think it was the 3 white mice who done (sic) it

bladespin

BrownFinger wrote: »

bat soup

Yup, Chinese meat markets who's hygiene standards are 'questionable' mixing live animals awaiting slaughter alongside the meat etc etc.

Antares35

1. China
2. Eating bats.

xxyyzz

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/coronavirus-the-science-the-search-for-patient-zero-1.4205024

bladespin

bladespin wrote: »

Yup, Chinese meat markets who's hygiene standards are 'questionable' mixing live animals awaiting slaughter alongside the meat etc etc.

But why does the virus not emerge from eating farmed animals for example?

People have been eating wild animals for centuries without any apparent harm so why has it emerged as a public health issue now?


Why why why why I am being the annoying 6-year-old:pac:

Thelonious Monk

mariaalice wrote: »

But why does the virus not emerge from eating farmed animals for example?

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/bird-flu-outbreak-confirmed-in-co-monaghan-poultry-flock-1.4200299

It does we had bird flu here last week, in Monaghan. The factory farming of animals doesn't help with these outbreaks. Maybe we can all eat a bit less meat and stop this carry on going forward. Pigs and chickens in Ireland never see the light of day, it's grotesque.

Alun

I visited China in 1988 and visited a food market, luckily on the last day we were there, otherwise I'd have not eaten a thing for the whole 3 weeks we were there.

Piles of wire cages, stacked one on top of another with all manner of wild and domestic animals and birds, crammed in so tight they could hardly move, ****ting and pissing on whatever unfortunate creature was below them.

Elsewhere, open market stalls with pieces of "meat", possibly pork I couldn't tell, open to the air in 30 degrees of heat covered with flies.

It was horrible.

Do they really eat pangolin in China?

They look so cute.

shesty

mariaalice wrote: »

But why does the virus not emerge from eating farmed animals for example?

People have been eating wild animals for centuries without any apparent harm so why has it emerged as a public health issue now?


Why why why why I am being the annoying 6-year-old:pac:

Could be anything I assume?It doesn't necessarily emerge from eating any wild animals, but obviously from that exact animal at that point in time.Could have been an anomaly in the animal world, could have been a chain of events that occured between some animals that we never would have noticed only it transmitted to a human.If they find patient zero they might be able to track back through what was consumed, then investigate possible diseases or mutations that might have occurred in that animal to cause this????

I have no background in this stuff btw, just purely hypothesising!!!

basskebab

Check out Zoonosis.it's when a disease spreads from an animal to humans
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoonosis

This has been happening for as long as we've been interacting with animals. It's just that with that advent of easy world wide travel it's much easier for these diseases to spread really rapidly. That's why we're seeing more outbreaks over the last few decades

4068ac1elhodqr

Janiyah Short Treble wrote: »

Chinese say Americans , Americans say Chinese.
I think it was the 3 white mice who done (sic) it

Forgot the namecheck the other 3rd superpower, for which this won't really do much damage. But very unlikely, and they've already blamed Engerland (as usual/default).

Was there not a L4 lab near the wetmarket? That had to dispose of many dozens of (post-use) bats. There is always the possibility someone low down, porter or binman that wanted to earn a few coin by flogging them to the wetmarket around the corner.
Also one of the critters could have bitten someone's finger when moving cages, even leather gloves would get peirced by the fangs.

There are of course much, much darker and more extensive CT's than any of the above, in relation to this. But best to toe the line, and blame the bat crazy bat soup drinkers.

Wetbench4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TPpoJGYlW54

_Brian

mariaalice wrote: »

But why does the virus not emerge from eating farmed animals for example?

People have been eating wild animals for centuries without any apparent harm so why has it emerged as a public health issue now?

Why why why why I am being the annoying 6-year-old:pac:

Animal husbandry in these live markets is very poor. Cages stacked high and droppings falling down through cages onto different species, plus live animals being slaughtered, wild trapped animals being brought in and mixed with farmed animals.

There is no comparison in how modern farms operate, we operate under strict legislation and the slaughter and preparation of meat is highly regulated.


Having been in China and on Chinese farms, how small farms farm is very similar to 1940’s Ireland. These live markets are a source of alternative meats that only a small portion of Chinese people eat. But think back to our recent history and TB was a serious issue here being transferred from animal to human and human to human. We’re still actively trying to eliminate TB from our herd to this day, my wife isn’t 50 and caught TB from a bed sit when at college here in Dublin. .

So, my point is we shouldn’t look down on third world countries just because we ourselves have managed to just get beyond that stage. I expect live markets will be banned there soon but they need to ensure it isn’t driven underground. China for the vast vast majority of its citizens is a third world country.

And for those commenting on eating animals to extinction would need to look at what mega trailers are doing in our fishing waters with indiscriminate netting and now mass electric discharge fishing which is decimating our stocks, and aparantly were a first world developed nation.

Jinglejangle69

I hope the filthy fecker who ate the bat died from the virus.

one world order

Could be man made. The truth will never be known. Bit of a coincidence it is happening in an election year when the Illuminati wanted anyone other than Trump.

Thelonious Monk

_Brian wrote: »

Animal husbandry in these live markets is very poor. Cages stacked high and droppings falling down through cages onto different species, plus live animals being slaughtered

There is no comparison in how modern farms operate, we operate under strict legislation and the slaughter and preparation of meat is highly regulated.

Do you know how bird flu emerged here last week? What causes these outbreaks?

bladespin

mariaalice wrote: »

But why does the virus not emerge from eating farmed animals for example?

People have been eating wild animals for centuries without any apparent harm so why has it emerged as a public health issue now?


Why why why why I am being the annoying 6-year-old:pac:

The meat we eat has been tested and is controlled, literally from birth to death (and beyond). It's about as safe as you can be, (unless it's come from one of the good men) the same cannot be said from trapping a wild animal and storing it in the most atrocious conditions you could imagine.

PhantomHat

Xzavier Scarce Tribune wrote: »

Forgot the namecheck the other 3rd superpower, for which this won't really do much damage. But very unlikely, and they've already blamed Engerland (as usual/default).

Was there not a L4 lab near the wetmarket? That had to dispose of many dozens of (post-use) bats. There is always the possibility someone low down, porter or binman that wanted to earn a few coin by flogging them to the wetmarket around the corner.
Also one of the critters could have bitten someone's finger when moving cages, even leather gloves would get peirced by the fangs.

There are of course much, much darker and more extensive CT's than any of the above, in relation to this. But best to toe the line, and blame the bat crazy bat soup drinkers.

A very plausible scenario. I think it's crazy people are so quick to dismiss it. It's a massive coincidence don't you think?

_Brian

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Do you know how bird flu emerged here last week? What causes these outbreaks?

It exists in the natural wild bird population.
Sadly rearing birds naturally outdoors leaves them susceptible to mixing with wild birds where they can be infected.

one world order

one world order wrote: »

Could be man made. The truth will never be known. Bit of a coincidence it is happening in an election year when the Illuminati wanted anyone other than Trump.

Hiya Jim, hows the sisters?

Wibbs

mariaalice wrote: »

But why does the virus not emerge from eating farmed animals for example?

People have been eating wild animals for centuries without any apparent harm so why has it emerged as a public health issue now?


Why why why why I am being the annoying 6-year-old:pac:

Farmed animals are less risky because they're not generally kept together with other species, so have much less chance of cross contaminating with "wild" viruses that then jump to humans. If you wanted to breed a virus, keep pigs in close quarters with ducks or chickens and add in some wild animals, like bats, civet cats etc. And wait. No research centre in the world would allow you to run that experiment. It's too bloody dangerous. Yet wet markets in the Far East are all over the place running this experiment on a daily basis. Bushmeat markets in Africa similar, but we've lesser traffic from those areas to the wider world. China on the other hand...

China and any other nation running such markets needs to "pay" for this disaster. In teh sense that if they continue to keep such markets going then the rest of the world has to hit them with sanctions in the pocket, and bring more manufacturing back locally.

Keyzer

Antares35 wrote: »

1. China
2. Eating bats.

Bat soup crazy I tell ye...

TheValeyard

And all because the lady loves......bat soup.

_Brian

Wibbs wrote: »

Farmed animals are less risky because they're not generally kept together with other species, so have much less chance of cross contaminating with "wild" viruses that then jump to humans. If you wanted to breed a virus, keep pigs in close quarters with ducks or chickens and add in some wild animals, like bats, civet cats etc. And wait. No research centre in the world would allow you to run that experiment. It's too bloody dangerous. Yet wet markets in the Far East are all over the place running this experiment on a daily basis. Bushmeat markets in Africa similar, but we've lesser traffic from those areas to the wider world. China on the other hand...

China and any other nation running such markets needs to "pay" for this disaster. In teh sense that if they continue to keep such markets going then the rest of the world has to hit them with sanctions in the pocket, and bring more manufacturing back locally.

An example here is how TB is spread between badgers, wild deer and cattle. Sharing drinking troughs in fields seems to be close enough to transfer it.

Now imagine stacking crates of cattle under deer and badgers with wast dripping down, imagine how much easier the spread is.

Talk of making China “pay” is juvenile at best.

The west have a high dependence on China same as they have on the west. We need to work with the to put an end to this but don’t think you’ll bully them into doing anything. They have a stronger mentality and deeper pockets than the west and we would cave long before them.

AllForIt

This is a rather good short article on it by Sky News.

https://news.sky.com/story/how-did-coronavirus-start-scientists-tackle-the-conspiracy-theories-11959500

Montage of Feck

mariaalice wrote: »

Do they really eat pangolin in China?

They look so cute.

They eat anything with four legs, bar the table.

_Brian

The majority of Americans that die from this will have died at the hands of Donald Trump through his inactions and intentional actions. For example he refused WHO test kits and waited two weeks until his son in laws company could manufacture them this making the family even more millions.

Even here at home, we know how this is spread, stoped and controlled yet we are falling short of the required actions to stop it.
Open borders, non essential shops open, NI border open, our local town has a bus running today to a pub in the north so people can celebrate paddy’s day.

Montage of Feck

one world order wrote: »

Could be man made. The truth will never be known. Bit of a coincidence it is happening in an election year when the Illuminati wanted anyone other than Trump.

Surely they would have picked better candidates if they had wanted to oust Trump?

Wetbench4

Wetbench4 wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TPpoJGYlW54

That is brilliant, best explanation ever nature bit us humans back.

_Brian

Montage of Feck wrote: »

They eat anything with four legs, bar the table.

Last time I was in China I was talking to a local and he put it well.

When westerners see an animal they think how cute that is, when Chinese people see the same animal they think “how will I cook that”.

He agreed he was generalising but it’s just cultural difference. In our near neighbor France they eat snails, frogs and Horse, again that’s just cultural difference.

_Brian

Montage of Feck wrote: »

Surely they would have picked better candidates if they had wanted to oust Trump?

Yes.
They wouldn’t have done something that is so traceable and does so much damage to global economies. Talk of this being intentional is foil hat stuff surely.

one world order

Montage of Feck wrote: »

Surely they would have picked better candidates if they had wanted to oust Trump?

Don't think any candidate would beat him giving his competitive nature.

_Brian

_Brian wrote: »

Last time I was in China I was talking to a local and he put it well.

When westerners see an animal they think how cute that is, when Chinese people see the same animal they think “how will I cook that”.

He agreed he was generalising but it’s just cultural difference. In our near neighbor France they eat snails, frogs and Horse, again that’s just cultural difference.

Did you watch the video about wild animal farming as a business?

_Brian

mariaalice wrote: »

Did you watch the video about wild animal farming as a business?

I did.

I eat meat but try to limit it and I buy free-range chicken I would like to buy outdoor reared pork but its harder to get in Ireland, in general cattle and sheep, are very humanly and well reared in Ireland I have my suspicion about factory farming of pigs and chickens being humane even in Ireland.

I would not judge the Chinese for eating animals for meat we do it and China had a famine in the 1970s that is in living memory for a lot of people, however, farming of wild animals to the extent they do in China is totally wrong.

kitkatman

instead of the third rate stuff the irish media is feeding us, take a look at the youtube clip from the australian current affairs program sixty minutes and it will tell you everything about the origin of the virus

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7nZ4mw4mXw

a second documentary by a german company gives a real insight to life in beijing today(from a french journalist who has lived there for 20 years).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3K3fy5eKeuM


both reports are proper old style reportage and an eye opener.

archer22

_Brian wrote: »

An example here is how TB is spread between badgers, wild deer and cattle. Sharing drinking troughs in fields seems to be close enough to transfer it.

Now imagine stacking crates of cattle under deer and badgers with wast dripping down, imagine how much easier the spread is.

Talk of making China “pay” is juvenile at best.

The west have a high dependence on China same as they have on the west. We need to work with the to put an end to this but don’t think you’ll bully them into doing anything. They have a stronger mentality and deeper pockets than the west and we would cave long before them.

Whereas the reality in Ireland is the opposite...you have the Cattle 'stacked' on top of the Badgers and Deer (given their obvious size difference) with waste dripping down.
Which tells you which way the problem flow is going.

And if "sharing drinking troughs in fields" have anything to do with it....then why has no effort ever been made to place the drinking troughs higher up or even to design them with a curved side ridge to prevent Badgers accessing them...Badgers are heavy set animals and are not agile so it should not be difficult to stop them accessing a water container.

The reason of course is because the Badger/TB thing is a scam and they know its a scam, but Badgers are useful patsies to keep the TB testing and Badger trapping gravy train going.
The only times I have ever seen Bovine TB outbreaks in this area it coincided with somebody buying in Cattle.
Badgers my hole :rolleyes:

CrankyHaus

_Brian wrote: »

Last time I was in China I was talking to a local and he put it well.

When westerners see an animal they think how cute that is, when Chinese people see the same animal they think “how will I cook that”.

He agreed he was generalising but it’s just cultural difference. In our near neighbor France they eat snails, frogs and Horse, again that’s just cultural difference.

A friend who was over with his Chinese fiance made a similar observation to me about how every animal seems to be eaten in the most gratuitously cruel way. They had Scorpions in a meat market: the live scorpions were skewered and while squirming on the skewer were cooked alive over a flame and then served to them.

_Brian

CrankyHaus wrote: »

A friend who was over with his Chinese fiance made a similar observation to me about how every animal seems to be eaten in the most gratuitously cruel way. They had Scorpions in a meat market: the live scorpions were skewered and while squirming on the skewer were cooked alive over a flame and then served to them.

Indeed.
But we shouldn’t be blinkered because it’s a different culture.

Look how lobsters are cooked, muscles.

The intention isn’t cruelty, it’s just how it’s done, and likely has always been done.

I know some people in our group were shocked to see a chicken being dispatched street side because we ordered a chicken dish, but that’s just how it’s kept fresh and all chicken has to be killed before being eaten, we’ve just become accustomed to being separated from it, a first world luxury I suppose.

We rear a few pigs for the table, bring them to slaughter myself, the livers are available before I leave the yard, still warm.

_Brian

archer22 wrote: »

Whereas the reality in Ireland is the opposite...you have the Cattle 'stacked' on top of the Badgers and Deer (given their obvious size difference) with waste dripping down.
Which tells you which way the problem flow is going.

And if "sharing drinking troughs in fields" have anything to do with it....then why has no effort ever been made to place the drinking troughs higher up or even to design them with a curved side ridge to prevent Badgers accessing them...Badgers are heavy set animals and are not agile so it should not be difficult to stop them accessing a water container.

The reason of course is because the Badger/TB thing is a scam and they know its a scam, but Badgers are useful patsies to keep the TB testing and Badger trapping gravy train going.
The only times I have ever seen Bovine TB outbreaks in this area it coincided with somebody buying in Cattle.
Badgers my hole :rolleyes:

I’m no scientist and I’ve not tested any theories regarding Tb transmissions in either directions. We have badgers on the farm all my life and have only had one outbreak of TB. We didn’t cull badgers nor get them trapped to test them. I’d expect the transmission is both ways but proof is key. As ever we must be directed by Dept advice. Most drinking troughs are much taller these days. We don’t use troughs at all but drinking access to a stream, which of course is allowed.

ifElseThen

Good article here about how these scenarios will become more common due to human encroachment on the natural habitats of various animals.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/mar/18/tip-of-the-iceberg-is-our-destruction-of-nature-responsible-for-covid-19-aoe

Wet market in Lagos

https://youtu.be/_VHXoMSnJq4?t=35

_Brian

_Brian wrote: »

Indeed.
But we shouldn’t be blinkered because it’s a different culture.

Look how lobsters are cooked, muscles.

The intention isn’t cruelty, it’s just how it’s done, and likely has always been done.

I know some people in our group were shocked to see a chicken being dispatched street side because we ordered a chicken dish, but that’s just how it’s kept fresh and all chicken has to be killed before being eaten, we’ve just become accustomed to being separated from it, a first world luxury I suppose.

We rear a few pigs for the table, bring them to slaughter myself, the livers are available before I leave the yard, still warm.

A Caribbean woman wa s telling me how when her mother came to visit she was a bit suspicious that the chicken in the supermarkets was not fresh as she was used to buying a live chicken and having it killed and plucked in front of her.

These things are cultural however that does not take from the fact that the farming of wild animals in the way the Chinese do it is wrong.

Muahahaha

Is there a danger the virus could enter the food chain here by farm animals getting infected by humans and then going for slaughter? Have heard a few dogs have died of the virus so seems possible that livestock can get infected too.

sonofenoch

Scientists narrowed it down to a bat and something called a Pangolin (nobody knew what this was before now everyone does).......a cross contamination of both probably, what a lovely cocktail...............what's for tea ma

DeVore

Its a zoonotic virus which means it jumped from animals to man. Possibly via several species of animal.

It appears to have come from bats or at least originating from bats and possible via another mammal (pangolin?)

Its a variation on a well known family of viruses named CoronoVirus because of the distinctive shape of the virus's "shell". They cause a number of illnesses.

The reason its more common now is that
1. These animals do not normally live with each other.

2. Now that we cram them together the virus can jump easier.

3. The virus can mutate in a new type of host when it jumps.

4. There are just more of them and more of us on the planet now. Therefore more viruses, more chances to mutate, more chances to jump between host.

Alun

mariaalice wrote: »

A Caribbean woman wa s telling me how when her mother came to visit she was a bit suspicious that the chicken in the supermarkets was not fresh as she was used to buying a live chicken and having it killed and plucked in front of her.

As mentioned already, it's more to do with the unsanitary conditions the chicken or other animal is kept in, in close contact with other animals and their faeces, and the same conditions they're slaughtered and prepared in rather than just the idea of buying a live chicken and having it dispatched on the spot. If all that could be done in clean and sanitary conditions it wouldn't be an issue.