Schools closed until undetermined date - was March 29th

mirrorwall14

political analyst wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/leaving-cert-students-could-sit-deferred-exams-and-start-college-in-mid-autumn-1.4212116

It looks like the Junior Cert will be cancelled or deferred.

An unlikely option for dealing with the Leaving Cert issue is allowing students to progress to their chosen course without an exam and having a selection process at the end of the first year college exams. There's a similar system in Italy but there are doubts over whether it would work here.

To be honest Im starting to think that’s the best option. General entry for universities and option to repeat for free if preferred next year.

There are so many things wrong with this year I’m just not sure it’s a good idea to be holding it at all

There is precedent within particular courses already. There was general entry psychology in Maynooth when I came through but you had to be in the top 30 to get into second year otherwise you transferred to arts or science automatically

Gal2glam

political analyst wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/leaving-cert-students-could-sit-deferred-exams-and-start-college-in-mid-autumn-1.4212116

It looks like the Junior Cert will be cancelled or deferred.

An unlikely option for dealing with the Leaving Cert issue is allowing students to progress to their chosen course without an exam and having a selection process at the end of the first year college exams. There's a similar system in Italy but there are doubts over whether it would work here.

What an utter waste of money that would be

randylonghorn

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

There is precedent within particular courses already. There was general entry psychology in Maynooth when I came through but you had to be in the top 30 to get into second year otherwise you transferred to arts or science automatically

There would have been a cutoff for getting into first year Arts or whatever tho, just not as high a one as if they offered a specific psy stream.

Colleges are already stretched to cope with first year numbers even in terms of basic teaching space.

RealJohn

If there’s one thing I’ve learned from this thread, it’s how out of touch with reality a lot of people in this country, teachers included, are.

The leaving cert is not merely a college entrance exam. It’s state certification of the first fourteen (or so) years of your academic life. It means something. It stands for something significant, both in real value and in what it represents.

You must all be teaching in great schools with 99.9% university attendance after graduation, but for a lot of my students, the leaving cert is the highest level of education they’re going to reach, and I find it offensive that that’s being devalued, not just by Joe Duffy callers, but by other teachers.

I’m an educator. I am not a stooge for the CAO, spending 6 years on each of their little numbers so that they can process them into college places next August. I do not believe that my sole job as a teacher is to produce leaving cert results, but it sure as hell isn’t to produce college places.

beggars_bush

LC will be run
primary schools will most likely still be closed in June so their halls can be used as exam centres, same with community centre halls
will allow for greater distances between those sitting the exams

there is planning underway for all of this

wirelessdude01

beggars_bush wrote: »

LC will be run
primary schools will most likely still be closed in June so their halls can be used as exam centres, same with community centre halls
will allow for greater distances between those sitting the exams

there is planning underway for all of this

You do know most primary schools don't have a hall.

randylonghorn

They don't have furniture of the right size either.

Probably easier to use hotel ballrooms / conference rooms it extra space needed tbh.

killbillvol2

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

You do know most primary schools don't have a hall.

Maybe the 'planning' includes building halls for them!

loyatemu

RealJohn wrote: »

If there’s one thing I’ve learned from this thread, it’s how out of touch with reality a lot of people in this country, teachers included, are.

The leaving cert is not merely a college entrance exam. It’s state certification of the first fourteen (or so) years of your academic life. It means something. It stands for something significant, both in real value and in what it represents.

You must all be teaching in great schools with 99.9% university attendance after graduation, but for a lot of my students, the leaving cert is the highest level of education they’re going to reach, and I find it offensive that that’s being devalued, not just by Joe Duffy callers, but by other teachers.

I’m an educator. I am not a stooge for the CAO, spending 6 years on each of their little numbers so that they can process them into college places next August. I do not believe that my sole job as a teacher is to produce leaving cert results, but it sure as hell isn’t to produce college places.

Hopefully this lockdown is a once-in-a-lifetime event, but nonetheless it exposes the lack of progress that has been made in reforming the LC, that the whole of your school life mostly boils down to 10 days of exams at age 18.

This wouldn't be such a major issue now if students final results were based on their progress over a longer period of time, via continuous assessment or however that's achieved. This was recognised as an issue when I did the LC. 25 years later, here we are.

Dickie10

yep madness there should be so much riding on LC exams there should be continous assessment in subjects, do modules during 5th and 6th year do a module per term do christmas exams pass them and ban your points along the way.

jrmb

Dickie10 wrote: »

yep madness there should be so much riding on LC exams there should be continous assessment in subjects, do modules during 5th and 6th year do a module per term do christmas exams pass them and ban your points along the way.

For A levels in the UK, there are usually 4 components per subject, and each students has one assessment per subject in January and June each year. If a student decides not to keep a subject up after the first year, they can still get credit for the first half. If a student's grade in one component is sub-par, they only have to repeat that component. Their university access points have to come from the same three-year window. There isn't much that we should copy from the British system, but an assessment and points arrangement like theirs would be a great move.

spurious

Dickie10 wrote: »

yep madness there should be so much riding on LC exams there should be continous assessment in subjects, do modules during 5th and 6th year do a module per term do christmas exams pass them and ban your points along the way.

This (or most of it) already exists for the LCA. It is externally moderated though, not just in house.

deiseindublin

LCA is actually harder in parts though, no regular LC student has to have 90% attendance to pass.

I always think it should be a little bit more outcome based, or less black and white on attendance anyway. 90% is such a high benchmark in some schools.

Monumental

If the leaving cert goes ahead don't forget the students who need private bus transport, don't think they can accommodate social distancing , so extra buses would be required ,would they be willing to put on extra buses or transport students to different locations

s1ippy

rosknight wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/hundreds-of-state-exam-students-awarded-estimated-grades-1.4141075

Predicted grades is nothing new to State Exams Commission.

Aw that's scummy about bereaved students having to sit exams... especially when other students got estimates when they were "distracted by ants". That's my band name now.

political analyst wrote: »

Britain has the same problem. So I don't see how you can blame a particular person for it.

The tech oligarchy is led there by Richard Branson and he's looking for a huge bailout of his airline so I doubt he's feeling especially generous.

Surely you've heard of Nicola Tesla and his wacky ideas about free access to power and technology. Have a look if you genuinely think there are impediments to this access that can't be easily lifted. Scoff and "George Soros" all you want, there are Loom balloons all over Africa providing their good citizens with Internet and there are people in Roscommon and rural places in the UK who can't even connect to the Internet on a dial-up.

Dickie10

Listening to the radio this evening its looking like August for Leaving cert. Not a hope exams will go ahead in early June. I have a feeling we will be in lockdown until mid may.

Monumental

Dickie10 wrote: »

Listening to the radio this evening its looking like August for Leaving cert. Not a hope exams will go ahead in early June. I have a feeling we will be in lockdown until mid may.

How in God's name do we keep leaving cert students motivated until August ,so many areas with limited internet access ,they are being left high and dry

rainbowtrout

Professor Aine Hyland spoke on the 6-1 news this evening about how the LC needed to go ahead for all the reasons mentioned on this thread already, but was also asked about alternative forms of assessment, the old style matric exam and the predicted grades favoured by the ISSU. She went through the reasons rationally why they won't work. She was asked about students disadvantaged by lack of access to technology/internet and she said that if students don't get to sit the LC those disadvantaged students will be further disadvantaged. I thought she spoke very well.


https://www.rte.ie/news/education/2020/0406/1128910-expert-stresses-importance-of-leaving-cert-going-ahead/

deiseindublin

Áine Hyland always talks sense, and has been championing the cause of educational disadvantage for a long time.

r93kaey5p2izun

Yes Aine Hyland knows what she's talking about. I agree with her. The LC is the best system as it stands and it needs to happen in some form if at all possible. And she is also correct that disadvantaged students will be affected more than others and steps will need to be taken to try to address that as much as possible. But it will have to be acknowledged that some are losing out more. But really, what if holdng the LC poses too great a health risk right up to Autumn? What is her proposal then? Health concerns have to drive any decision made, so alternatives need to be discussed in case it can't go ahead by September. That's just being realistic. And I'm disappointed she wasn't asked about that because I would value her opinion on it.

mirrorwall14

Susan Quiet Stool wrote: »

Yes Aine Hyland knows what she's talking about. I agree with her. The LC is the best system as it stands and it needs to happen in some form if at all possible. And she is also correct that disadvantaged students will be affected more than others and steps will need to be taken to try to address that as much as possible. But it will have to be acknowledged that some are losing out more. But really, what if holdng the LC poses too great a health risk right up to Autumn? What is her proposal then? Health concerns have to drive any decision made, so alternatives need to be discussed in case it can't go ahead by September. That's just being realistic. And I'm disappointed she wasn't asked about that because I would value her opinion on it.

This, I was frustrated too by that. I get that the LC is important. But the discussion is the LC in the context of an unprecedented event in world history.

I think it’s a bit much to say teachers on this thread are out of touch with reality. We know how important the LC is, we aren’t idiots. However the world is not in anyway normal right now and a discussion around that is completely to be expected.

Having said that, I feel our figures are hopeful right now and I’m crossing fingers and toes that we manage to get them into school for a week or two and sit the damn LC so it’s done

RealJohn

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

I think it’s a bit much to say teachers on this thread are out of touch with reality. We know how important the LC is, we aren’t idiots. However the world is not in anyway normal right now and a discussion around that is completely to be expected.

I was referring to the people who keep coming up with ways to get students to college and acting like that’s problem solved, ignoring entirely the people who aren’t going to be using their leaving cert to get into college. Grind schools and maybe fee paying schools aside, I imagine most schools have a cohort of students who aren’t going to college, and they deserve better than to be overlooked.

Jim Gazebo

Monumental wrote: »

How in God's name do we keep leaving cert students motivated until August ,so many areas with limited internet access ,they are being left high and dry

By telling them now and doing it early! Tell them now, they can take a few weeks rest, reset and go again in knowledge of when the exam is. The only thing demotivating now is not knowing.

Jim Gazebo

There is a campaign started up on twitter for a no detriment policy for college students, would that work for the LC? Basically means exams are run remote but you can't get less overall than whatever your average grade is already.

scrubs33

I imagine with the national and international standing that Prof Hyland has that the government will be taking her advice on board regarding the Leaving Cert. I agree with a previous poster that the numbers at the moment are good and should allow students back for classes after the May bank holiday (6th years only) That would allow for three weeks of contact time which I can't wait for.

Bobtheman

scrubs33 wrote: »

I imagine with the national and international standing that Prof Hyland has that the government will be taking her advice on board regarding the Leaving Cert. I agree with a previous poster that the numbers at the moment are good and should allow students back for classes after the May bank holiday (6th years only) That would allow for three weeks of contact time which I can't wait for.

No offence but we haven't reached the surge yet. I think it's delusional to think kids will be back after May bank holiday. Sixth years . I can't say after that. I have consistently said too that it was delusional to say the exam will go ahead by hook or by crook in June.
The government presently has no plan out of lock down.
There will be no LC in June. Beyond that who knows

Dickie10

yeah i dont think we will be back to any normal until mid june. LC will not go ahead before august

scrubs33

None taken:) Hoping against hope maybe but I do think schools will open at some stage in May. I don't think I can link the article but the Irish Times suggested yesterday that an announcement would be forthcoming within the next two weeks on what is going to happen. If that's true, logistically, it's going to put schools under huge pressure no matter what the proposals are.

dockysher

What an average hourly rate be for a secondary school teacher with say 4 years experience in school? Permenant in school.

Bobtheman

As for anxious students my sympathies but what about everyone else ? People are losing their businesses and in a lot of cases they won't open again. Many are parents.
There is a world of suffering out there. They have to learn to deal with it.