Trump Bans USA - Europe Travel from Friday for 30 Days.

cson

Jesus ****ing christ.

There probably isn't a more susceptible airline to this than EI.

Update: Apparently Schengen only - clarified by US Department of Homeland Security. Presumably Ireland unaffected.

Update 2: Confirmed Ireland is not on DHS list.

sdanseo

Unbelievable. I'm less annoyed about Ireland not being exempted with the UK than the irrationality of excluding the UK for fear of offending an ally. It's ludicrous.
No different to Saudi excluding the EU but not the USA.

vard

What the ****... I live in the US. My parents were to be visiting next week. They paid for a hotel. All planned... I'm shocked. Will they be refunded? I don't know what to make of all this.

kevinandrew

Insane.

Something like that could finish Aer Lingus, it will be devastating.

No surprise to see he excluded the UK, he's a big supporter of Brexit and would do anything to give the EU a good kick.

cson

kevinandrew wrote: »

Insane.

Something like that could finish Aer Lingus, it will be devastating.

No surprise to see he excluded the UK, he's a big supporter of Brexit and would do anything to give the EU a good kick.

Ever so slightly fortunate they're part of IAG presuming UK flights remain permitted (which is another insanity, but anyway). There might be enough cash in bank to weather some of the storm. It's going to get grim in Shamrock House though.

cson

DHS says it's Schengen only so Ireland should be ok direct presumably. Who knows with connecting pax from Schengen though.

dixiefly

I wonder how he can justify allowing UK over everyone else?

They are not exactly beacons of responsibility allowing Cheltenham festival to go ahead with a confirmed case already in the town.

knockon

Without the update I wondered could some services be moved to Aldergrove? A basic service - could that even be a runner?

kevinandrew

A potentially huge sigh of relief for Aer Lingus and all at Shamrock House!

I wouldn't trust Trump though, he's a loose cannon and could easily extend the ban or change it at very short notice but for now, it looks like a reprieve.

sdanseo

Anyone in a Schengen country last 14 days is not allowed.
Thats all connections for EI out the window. Unless they stay in Ireland for 14 days leaving us horrifically exposed and we'd have to close our own borders unilaterally.

kevinandrew

sdanseo wrote: »

Anyone in a Schengen country last 14 days is not allowed.
Thats all connections for EI out the window. Unless they stay in Ireland for 14 days leaving us horrifically exposed and we'd have to close our own borders unilaterally.

While connections from Europe are effectively gone, they remain for US citizens travelling from Europe to the US via Ireland and for British passengers connecting in Ireland.

It's far from ideal in what is already a very difficult time for the likes of Aer Lingus but it's better than what the airlines of continental Europe are about to experience.

NSAman

It seems like a political move in relation to a virus. Why Not Ireland and the UK?

Something does not add up in all of this. Information locally in the States is abysmal. No real reporting on cases locally. My own suspicions are that they have no idea how many cases are actually in the USA.

Why ban travel from the EU? Why not China? Why not South Korea...etc....etc...

Something does not add up here. Americans in general have no concept of what is happening in the rest of the world. The cancelling of the NBA is bigger news than cronovirus.. that is worrying.

Peregrinus

It's not a ban on travel from the EU; it's a ban on travel from the Schengen Area.

My guess is that the rationale is that (a) the virus is pandemic in Italy; (b) Italy is in the Schengen area; and (c) because of the nature of the Schengen area it's not practicable to apply a ban on travel from Italy only. (Anyone travelling from anwhere in Schengen could have been in Italy recently; you have no way of knowing.)

It doesn't really stack up, to be honest, because an EU citizen resident in Ireland or the UK could travel to the US, and there's no way of telling if they have been in Italy or Schengenland recently. But it looks like an attempt to do something vaguely rational.

As for exempting US citizens from the entry ban, this is normal with such bans. (Australia currently has a travel ban that prevents you entering if you have been in China in the past 14 days; Australian citizens and permanent residents can enter.) Countries pretty weill have to do this; its pretty fundamental to citizenship that you can enter the country that you are a citizen of. If your citizens are infected or infectious, they are your problem, not someone elses. You can quarantine them or isolate them or whatever, but you can't turn them away for some other country to deal with.

Nijmegen

The US probably has it bad and he’s spreading the blame before the tests catch up with cases. This is nuts. The global travel industry is screwed.

Noxegon

Fortunately the virus knows not to infect Americans visiting Europe so there’s no need to ban them from travelling home.

smurfjed

UK has about 400 cases and is an island, but Trump will still block them when that number goes uncontrollable. As for Ireland we will also be on the list in a few weeks.

greenfield21

NSAman wrote: »

It seems like a political move in relation to a virus. Why Not Ireland and the UK?

Something does not add up in all of this. Information locally in the States is abysmal. No real reporting on cases locally. My own suspicions are that they have no idea how many cases are actually in the USA.

Why ban travel from the EU? Why not China? Why not South Korea...etc....etc...

Something does not add up here. Americans in general have no concept of what is happening in the rest of the world. The cancelling of the NBA is bigger news than cronovirus.. that is worrying.

Are you for real, it's exploding in Europe with little measures been taking by government until it's to late. We need complete lockdown if you want to stop the spread. The Chinese have warned about this. also was there not a travel ban on China?

john boye

Trump criticising Europe for not curtailing travel is pure hypocrisy when he's spent the last two weeks practically denying the virus even exists.

Trampas

john boye wrote: »

Trump criticising Europe for not curtailing travel is pure hypocrisy when he's spent the last two weeks practically denying the virus even exists.

Probably been told this could be an election issue if economy sinks and this is his way of saying it’s not his fault. Last week it was the Chinese virus now European one

un5byh7sqpd2x0

Noxegon wrote: »

Fortunately the virus knows not to infect Americans visiting Europe so there’s no need to ban them from travelling home.

He doesn’t have the power to ban citizens from travelling

Peregrinus

Tanner Scruffy Photography wrote: »

He doesn’t have the power to ban citizens from travelling

But he could impose quarantine obligations on citizens returning from travel in Schengenland. Which he is not doing or proposing to do.

is_that_so

greenfield21 wrote: »

Are you for real, it's exploding in Europe with little measures been taking by government until it's to late. We need complete lockdown if you want to stop the spread. The Chinese have warned about this. also was there not a travel ban on China?

Complete lockdown will only work over a prolonged period in places like China, where it can be ruthlessly enforced. It needs to be done if required elsewhere. This all seems a little over-anxious TBH. The vast majority of cases are mild and little more than fever. If you are at risk or believe yourself at risk then you need to take extra precautions otherwise follow the hygiene advice.

thomasj

NSAman wrote: »

It seems like a political move in relation to a virus. Why Not Ireland and the UK?

Something does not add up in all of this. Information locally in the States is abysmal. No real reporting on cases locally. My own suspicions are that they have no idea how many cases are actually in the USA.

Why ban travel from the EU? Why not China? Why not South Korea...etc....etc...

Something does not add up here. Americans in general have no concept of what is happening in the rest of the world. The cancelling of the NBA is bigger news than cronovirus.. that is worrying.

Sure isn't the preclearance at Irish airports on American territory?

Not sure about uk

RocketRaccoon

Can someone here clear something up for me, it's easier to ask here rather than the other covid threads, they're too quick moving.

A friend of mine is a German national living here 20+ years, he was due to travel from here to Germany and then to the US, obviously that's off now but could he travel from the UK to America instead? He's worried that he wouldn't be allowed entry as he is German, even though he would be travelling from the UK.

easypazz

Nobody will book a flight anywhere now, as there is a fear you could struggle to get home.

Global airline fleet must be on the verge of collapse.

easypazz

RocketRaccoon wrote: »

Can someone here clear something up for me, it's easier to ask here rather than the other covid threads, they're too quick moving.

A friend of mine is a German national living here 20+ years, he was due to travel from here to Germany and then to the US, obviously that's off now but could he travel from the UK to America instead? He's worried that he wouldn't be allowed entry as he is German, even though he would be travelling from the UK.

As things stand he can fly from uk or Ireland, but those flights might be cancelled, or he might not get to fly back.

Peregrinus

RocketRaccoon wrote: »

Can someone here clear something up for me, it's easier to ask here rather than the other covid threads, they're too quick moving.

A friend of mine is a German national living here 20+ years, he was due to travel from here to Germany and then to the US, obviously that's off now but could he travel from the UK to America instead? He's worried that he wouldn't be allowed entry as he is German, even though he would be travelling from the UK.

As long as he hasn't been in Germany (or any other Schengen country) in the past 14 days he's not excluded by the ban. But because he's carrying a German passport they'll give him the third degree, and if they are in any doubt about his honesty on this point they may turn him away anyway.

If he is resident in Ireland and can presumably prove that, he might do better to fly from Irland than from the UK. If he flies from the UK they'll reckon he's not flying from home, he was obviously travelling around a bit before coming to the States, maybe he was in Germany too?

Cork Boy 53

easypazz wrote: »

Nobody will book a flight anywhere now, as there is a fear you could struggle to get home.

Global airline fleet must be on the verge of collapse.

Yes. Multiply what happened after 9/11 by a factor of 10.

easypazz

Cork Boy 53 wrote: »

Yes. Multiply what happened after 9/11 by a factor of 10.

Indeed. After 911 they could slash fares straight away and get on with it.

There is no guarantee of an end date here.

Nijmegen

RocketRaccoon wrote: »

Can someone here clear something up for me, it's easier to ask here rather than the other covid threads, they're too quick moving.

A friend of mine is a German national living here 20+ years, he was due to travel from here to Germany and then to the US, obviously that's off now but could he travel from the UK to America instead? He's worried that he wouldn't be allowed entry as he is German, even though he would be travelling from the UK.

It's time based. Anyone who has been in a schengen country in the past 14 days can't travel to the US, same as they did for China.

Tenger

john boye wrote: »

Trump criticising Europe for not curtailing travel is pure hypocrisy when he's spent the last two weeks practically denying the virus even exists.

First it would go away in April, "like a miracle", then it was a hoax from the Dems to get him impeached again.
And now this travel ban. I certainly feel that he is taking this action in an attempt to project decisiveness after his bungling over the last 2 weeks.

His statement was that "travelers from Europe had seeded the clusters of the virus in the US". Which completely ignored the fact that the clusters in the US were created by US citizens who had returned from the Europe.

Its almost as if they think "Schengen open borders" means that there are no checks anywhere. Austria has already introduced border check on their Italian border.

dfx-

The obvious criticism here would be EI having all their focus and eggs in one transatlantic basket, but then again, everyone is struggling in all directions.

Storm 10

Be interesting to look at flight radar tomorrow, it will be a pretty bare picture.

cson

11.59pm EST Friday, so the Friday wave will get off.

Saturday will be bleak though.

Tenger

Heard anecdotally that the half empty EI flights for tomorrow are rapidly becoming full. It appears that US pax are changing their flights upon hearing this announcement.

kevinandrew

dfx- wrote: »

The obvious criticism here would be EI having all their focus and eggs in one transatlantic basket, but then again, everyone is struggling in all directions.

Definitely. The whole idea of diversifying the network to protect the airline against situations like this is a bit of myth anyway.

Anything big enough to impact the US would no doubt see other markets fall first for the likes of Aer Lingus.

Noxegon

The problem in these situations is that governments act too late. A ban on travel from Europe to the Americas could have had real public health benefits, but the time to do it was in 1492.

L1011

dfx- wrote: »

The obvious criticism here would be EI having all their focus and eggs in one transatlantic basket, but then again, everyone is struggling in all directions.

The diversification people usually clamoured for on here was to the Asian countries that are already locked down, remember

galwaytt

Tenger wrote: »

Heard anecdotally that the half empty EI flights for tomorrow are rapidly becoming full. It appears that US pax are changing their flights upon hearing this announcement.

Did you hear the lady on Joe Duffy yesterday, and how some of her 'friends' thought the borders were being closed, and spent €6,000 to fly home yesterday ?

And they were US citizens, who aren't even affected............... :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Peregrinus

galwaytt wrote: »

Did you hear the lady on Joe Duffy yesterday, and how some of her 'friends' thought the borders were being closed, and spent €6,000 to fly home yesterday ?

And they were US citizens, who aren't even affected............... :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

There are many stories like this. Trump made a complete hames of announcing the measures and, although corrections were issued very soon afterwards, once a false story has been set going, particularly by somebody with a media profile like Trump's it is extremely difficult to recall it.

bk

Peregrinus wrote: »

There are many stories like this. Trump made a complete hames of announcing the measures and, although corrections were issued very soon afterwards, once a false story has been set going, particularly by somebody with a media profile like Trump's it is extremely difficult to recall it.

It is a very good example of why very clear and carefully prepared and thought out messaging is needed for important decisions like this.

Unfortunately Trump is clearly a toddler who basically is just blurting out whatever comes to into his head and is largely doing this for panicked political reasons.

Tenger

galwaytt wrote: »

Did you hear the lady on Joe Duffy yesterday, and how some of her 'friends' thought the borders were being closed, and spent €6,000 to fly home yesterday ?

And they were US citizens, who aren't even affected............... :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

No. Don’t listen to radio (just never got into the habit)
I’ve got mates in EI and the missus is crew. But the mates corroborate this, the flights today were filling up with ppl rebooking to leave Europ earlier.


The Oval Office announcement was spectacularly bad.
DHS had to make 2 corrections within 30 mins, and Trump made one himself via tweet. I’m wondering did he go off script, or is he just unable to follow a teleprompter?

Van.Bosch

Tenger wrote: »

No. Don’t listen to radio (just never got into the habit)
I’ve got mates in EI and the missus is crew. But the mates corroborate this, the flights today were filling up with ppl rebooking to leave Europ earlier.


The Oval Office announcement was spectacularly bad.
DHS had to make 2 corrections within 30 mins, and Trump made one himself via tweet. I’m wondering did he go off script, or is he just unable to follow a teleprompter?

I suspect he listened to a briefing, thought he understood it, went on TV winging it and had to be told after the difference between Europe and the Schengen region.

Coil Kilcrea

On the contrary, this man doesn't listen to anybody because he knows more than you will ever know and you cannot even imagine the stuff he knows because nobody knows except him. He's the man who said that it's okay to go to work with the virus.....:eek:

scoobydude

So if these flights are canceled, do the airlines still fly the route to keep the slot, or are the skies emptier as a result of this? I'd heard they need to use the slot to keep it, but it could be just hearsay.

As a followup, how much less fuel would an empty plane (apart from crew) use in comparison to a fully loaded one?

Coil Kilcrea

Airlines need to fly slots to keep them in a 'use them, or lose them' philosophy designed to stop anti-competitive practices where airlines would hold slots at airports that are very valuable. EI's slots at LHR are conservatively valued a 1.5 Billion.

The EU has now suspended the need to fly slots empty.

trellheim

EI's slots at LHR are conservatively valued a 1.5 Billion.

aren't a bunch of them rented out ?

Irish Steve

Sky news reporting that UK and Ireland are to be added to the ban, no information yet about when that will come into force

Credit Checker Moose

Irish Steve wrote: »

Sky news reporting that UK and Ireland are to be added to the ban, no information yet about when that will come into force

Effective Monday night.

Coil Kilcrea

Irish Steve wrote: »

Sky news reporting that UK and Ireland are to be added to the ban, no information yet about when that will come into force

Monday, according to CNN, but with this moron, who knows? Everything he mutters and mangles has to be walked back, interpreted and dots joined.

zell12

Confirmed
BBC - US to extend coronavirus travel ban to UK and Ireland from Monday

Mike Pence has announced all travel to the UK and Ireland will be suspended from midnight Monday EST.